Fouga Magister

[aseanaero]

Anyone flown the Fouga Magister ?

General impressions and advice on common maintenance problems please

[Fitter2]

Never flown one but I tripped over one once.

(apologies if that's unhelpful).

[Ali Barber]

I believe it was the only aircraft designed so that you could urinate into the cockpit from outside without a step ladder.

[NutLoose]

Flown in the back of one that used to be based at EMA, was maintained by some Irish Air Corp Guys for the owner, Details are here with addresses, so you could contact the owners and they may be able to give you some pointers....
GINFO Registration History | Aircraft Register | Safety Regulation (http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=reg&fullregmark=FUGA)

[beardy]

Yes, I have flown it. PM me for specifics if you wish.

Excellent book: Le Fouga Sous Toutes ses Couleurs ISBN 2-90-7341-11-1 (may only exist in French)

I only have 190hrs on it in 2 years, so can't speak with great authority.

[DeepestSouth]

You could also try Claus Colling at FlugWerke (they of the new build FW 190) who carried out a wonderful restoration and flies his regularly. The website is:

Flug Werk GmbH - Contact - (http://www.flugwerk.com/contact.shtm)

[Solid Rust Twotter]

A mate who flew them tells me you'd get spurious engine fire warnings and the only way to be sure was to do a 360 and take a look at your smoke trail - if it was thick and healthy looking you were on fire. In that case you would bail out without the use of an ejection seat, merely a static line type system.:ooh:

[beardy]

Well, I flew a variety of airframes maintained by the French Air Force and never saw spurious indications, they were all Marbore II engines, maybe that was a factor (nor were they particularly smokey.)

[NutLoose]

Solid Rust TwotterA mate who flew them tells me you'd get spurious engine fire warnings and the only way to be sure was to do a 360 and take a look at your smoke trail - if it was thick and healthy looking you were on fire. In that case you would bail out without the use of an ejection seat, merely a static line type system.http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/icon25.gif

Well beats the old Spey Engined RAF Phantom, you used to do a physical external examination on those from the comfort of your Seat as it passed by underneath you .. :ok:

[VictorSR]

I did an exchange tour, got 1000hrs on it. PM for details

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Well, I flew a variety of airframes maintained by the French Air Force and never saw spurious indications, they were all Marbore II engines, maybe that was a factor (nor were they particularly smokey.)

Got the info from an ex French fighter pilot. Probably some time in the '60s he flew them. The 360 was to make sure there was no thick healthy smoke trail when the fire warning illuminated.

[621andy]

Have a look at this site

CM170 FOUGA MAGISTER n° 217 (http://nostalgair.free.fr/CM170/cm170_index.html)

I took some pics of their Magister in France last year and posted them on a site. The chappie Courtot sent me an e-mail in English wrt pic- which I can't find! :confused:

He seemed a pleasant blokey, so maybe worth a mail...

[aw ditor]

Flew a Miles Magister!

[aseanaero]

http://nostalgair.free.fr/CM170/DSCF7227.jpg

This photo reminds me of the antenna coming out of Uncle Martin's head in My Favourite Martian ... weird looking jet but on paper it looks like it was a good package for it's day.

[Rossian]

In the '70s flew two and half hours of licensed hooliganism in the back seat of No 6 in La Patrouille de France during display practice. The bail out brief was interesting as the chute static line was clipped into the rear bulkhead behind one's left shoulder. If it became necessary to get out I was assured that I should jettison my canopy, matey in front would roll us inverted and then I was to undo harness and allow myself to drop out! Yeah right. But it was pure unadulterated magic honest guv

[F.O.D]

I scrounged a few Fouga trips with French and Belgian pilots during my exchange and overseas tours. IIRC it was tricky to land in the correct place because you sit soooo close to the ground on landing and additionally the ground effect of such a high aspect ratio wing also makes it reluctant to touch down (of course it could simply have been my p##s poor piloting skills!).

During my happy time in France, the FAF unfortunately lost several Fougas due to lack of engine performance in icing conditions - they flamed out if you were not careful. At the time, French Air Force Stations used to use the Fouga as a Station hack for the sqns. For a period, I was led to believe that sadly, more fast jet pilots met an untimely end in the Fouga than in their front line types.

F.O.D

[glad rag]

The noisiest aircraft in NATO. Excruciating, piercing intake/compressor noise.:yuk::yuk:

[BEagle]

I recall, many years ago, the Patrouille de France arriving at RAFC Cranwell in their FMs.

After refuelling, they taxyed to their parking slots with the groundcrew happily perched on the wing - that had the Jet Provost line chiefs choking on their tea!

It was quite amazing how both the Patrouille de France and the BAF Diables Rouge put on the superb displays they did back then, with these motor gliders powered by a couple of APUs!

[ACW367]

I worked with an RAF pilot a while ago who had done an FrAF exchange tour in Tours on the Ajet and Magister. He said a favourite pastime was to race the TGV train down the nearby line at low level. Apparently, if you dived at it from around 5000ft you could just about keep up.

He also said landings from the backseat using the periscopes were a real pig.

[Dan Winterland]

Did a couple of trips in them on a Sqn exchange to Salon de Provence. One in the front and one in the back. My impressions:

You're bloody close to the ground. Makes you feel like you're going much faster than you actually are on takeoff and landing.

The periscope is a bizarre concept for an aircraft, but it actually works! Just as well as the visibility on landing is dreadful from the back.

It's underpowered.

It's good thing it has a V tail. A conventional fin would slice you in half if you had to bail out.

Control harmonisation is OK, but the aircraft feels a bit odd with those long wings. I tried some slow rolls and they seemed quite difficult to me. Having said that, it was very nice to fly in formation.

It's very noisy on the ground.

It would probably make a good glider.

[Cornish Jack]

Beagle - Diables Rouge superb displays indeed!:ok::D Did S&R standby at a Gaydon display day, way back when and the DR's display started with a nine ship of three threes in vic, the leader lifting and immediately rolling inverted to climb away - heart stopping stuff!!

[beardy]

The pre-development motorised glider that became the Magister, with 90kg of thrust. the V tail was added for this model to move the conventional fin from the jet efflux

http://aircraftwalkaround.hobbyvista.com/sylphe/foug_cyclone_24.jpg

and the 2 seat development!:

http://aircraftwalkaround.hobbyvista.com/sylphe/foug_cyclone_26.jpg

Many more remarkable photos here:

Fouga CM8 R13 - Sylphe III (http://minijets.org/typo3/index.php?id=51)

[stevew62]

Cornish Jack - indeed!http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/thumbs.gif:D Did S&R standby at a Gaydon display day, way back when and the DR's display started with a nine ship of three threes in vic, the leader lifting and immediately rolling inverted to climb away - heart stopping stuff!!

Was that Sept '69 ? If so there was a JP aerobatic group there at the same time & they went up together

Does anyone out there have pics of them flying together ?

[sitigeltfel]

Fancy a flight in one?

Fly a jet fighter, Fly a fighter jet, jet flighter, jet flights, fighter jet, jet flights, vol en avion de chasse, fouga magister, fly, Tematis, vol en fouga (http://www.flyajetfighter.com/flyajetfighter_fougamagister.html)

[Cornish Jack]

stevew62
Could well have been - will have to check the log book. Don't recall the mixed formation with the JPs, but certainly do recall the arrival of the Arrows - one of them went past our Whirlwind BELOW rotor height!! The only other formation of note was the Blue Angels with their 'clockwork mice' and some (by light blue standards) rather odd starting procedures:eek:
Just checked - Yes, September 20th, '69 B of B display.
No photos at all, I'm afraid.

[India69]

My CFI (Phil Cox who I hope has not yet got a harp) told me it could enter an uncontrolerable spin and one way to help regain control was to blow the canopy!! Problem with the funny tail .

[saudipc-9]

The noisiest aircraft in NATO. Excruciating, piercing intake/compressor noise

Hahhh. I see your noisiest aircraft and raise you a T-37!! The Tweet rules as the big boy on the block wrt excruciating engine noise.:p

[eagerbeaver1]

I saw a very flash looking one in Tampere a few years back and must agree it is the noisiest aircraft I have ever heard.

[tomdocherty72]

Hi All,

I am in the early stages of researching the Fouga Magister for an article, hopefully to be published in a UK based aviation magazine.

I am hoping to get responses from Magister pilots about:

The flying characteristics of the Magister.
Was it an easy aircraft to fly?
What were the dangers of flying the type - could you get into trouble easily on the edge of its flight envelope?
Was the cockpit ergonomically easy to work in ?
How effective was it in the ground attack role?
How effective was it as a trainer?
What was its strongest virtue?
What was its greatest vice?

I would also appreciate stories of operations, exercises, close calls in training and/or poor weather. Also any photos, particularly air-to-air shots you may have. As well as anything liked or disliked about the Magister.

I look forward to your responses.

[Madbob]

Tom


I can't say I have ever flown a Magister but I would have said its greatest flaw was not in having ejection seats:eek::eek:.
I think that with its straight wing it would have been a fairly honest aeroplane to pole around. It also had two engines, so it did have a better chance of getting you home than say a single engine Jet Provost, which is what I flew doing my basic training.
I don't know how the performance figures compare in terms of speed, ceiling, range etc. but I guess that the Magister is more comparable with the un-pressurised JP3 and 4 than the pressurised Mk.5.
I think that the Magister might have also suffered from compressabilty issues at say < 0.7M in a descent from high level. The JP5 limiting Mach No was 0.75M.


This may not help you very much but it might help you focus questions to others who have flown both types. I for one was glad to have flown the JP in preference to the Magister though to be fair to the latter it was probably a trainer with a lower operating cost and its lack of sophistication may have been a bonus to many of the customers who bought them.


MB

[ATC Watcher]

Did my initial training on the French air force in them in Cognac end of the 1960's, only a few dozen hours on them and very long time ago..
but to answer partially to your questions :

he flying characteristics of the Magister. very simple and nice to fly.
Was it an easy aircraft to fly? Yes relatively. coming from flying gliders ( most of us did in those days ) we knew how to use our feet and keep the ball in the middle.
What were the dangers of flying the type - could you get into trouble easily on the edge of its flight envelope? Not that I recall.
Was the cockpit ergonomically easy to work in ? the front was ok . Full of added bits and pieces over the years as most French cockpits were in those days , not so much place but OK, we did not know any better. In the back definitively not .
How effective was it in the ground attack role? You have to ask the Israelis , they are to my knowledge the only ones that used them in combat . not made for it. It was designed as a trainer .
How effective was it as a trainer? very . except perhaps endurance , 1,5 hour max in cruise ( slow) and 1 h in training with some aerobatic in it .
Always had to look at the gauges all the time when coming back ..
What was its strongest virtue? you could do basically anything with it and get away with it if you were high enough. (You could also smoke in it and get rid of the butt in flight :-) The only military jet you van do this I believe
What was its greatest vice? Underpowered . especially the ones equipped with Marbore I engines, The Marbore II were better but marginally . Ejecting was possible on paper . I do not know anyone that did it though,.But you could put it down in a field and get out of it , landing without gear was no issue ( happened a lot before the Bip-Bips were introduced. , they were repaired and flown back a week later.

[megan]

I see your noisiest aircraft and raise you a T-37!! The Tweet rules as the big boy on the block wrt excruciating engine noiseBoth aircraft were fitted with the same engine. The T-37 had Continental J69 engines, which were licence built copies of the Turbomeca Marboré, as fitted to the Fouga Magister.

[TEEEJ]

Israeli Magisters up for sale.

Fouga CM.170 Magister / Tzukit for sale by Raptor Aviation, Inc. (http://www.raptoraviation.com/aircraft%20spec%20pages/Fouga%20IAI.html)

[tomdocherty72]

Hi Madbob,

Thanks very much. Useful pointers to follow up on.

[tomdocherty72]

Thanks ATC Watcher, I have followed up your initial response with some questions in a PM.

[Warmtoast]

I remember well the expertise of the FAF Aerobatic Team and their Fouga Magisters at Greenham Common around 1980 or thereabouts.

See my photos below.
http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/Fouga%20Photos/IMG_0889_zpskdmdj7ug.jpg


http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/Fouga%20Photos/IMG_0843.jpg


http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/Fouga%20Photos/IMG_0888_zps4iecfpph.jpg


http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/Fouga%20Photos/IMG_0841.jpg


http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/Fouga%20Photos/IMG_0837.jpg

[BossEyed]

All those years ago, stevew62 asked if there were pics of the Magisters flying with JPs at the RAF Gaydon BoB display in 1969.

Here are a couple, via here (http://www.linton-gin.com/gaydon_69.html) (A Linton Gin/Blades history site with some great stories):

http://www.linton-gin.com/pics/GIN_LDR_loop1.jpg

http://www.linton-gin.com/pics/GIN_LDR_loop2.jpg