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Gingerbread
7th Feb 2009, 02:05
Have read with interest a number of Prune threads making passing reference to staff taking up equity in their airline.

Know the idea is contentious, and probably doesn't sit easy with employees, management or unions. Nevertheless, at a time when many airlines will shrink, if not disappear; taking up employee ownership might just be an idea that can save us all.

While many US pilots and ginger-beers, are, or have been, a part of their company's employee share plan, it's yet to take off in Australia in a big way.

The concept is getting a bit of a run on the Qantas pilots website, but many PP's aren't pilots and can't access that site. Nevertheless, just about all Qantas staff are eligible to participate in their Company's share plan purchase to acquire up to $10,000 worth of Qantas equity on favourable Ts& Cs.

Hopefully a dedicated Prune Thread available to all Qantas staff is the way to get the debate rolling. The idea is not a new one. Couple of years ago the UK Chancellor of the Exchequer (now PM) Gordon Brown made the following statement:
Employee ownership is world changing. It is the way ahead for the UK in the global economy. It reflects that human capital is becoming more important than physical assets. A company is more and more defined by its skills. It relies more on its creative energies. I am here to celebrate the great achievement of employee ownership. The global economy will succeed when employees feel they have a stake in the business.Now that BA has stated publicly that it was considering a pay freeze for its 42,000 staff after reporting a £70 million loss in the first nine months of its financial year, expect that having a PM that at least supports rewarding staff with shares, can’t be a bad thing.

Virgin & Qantas aren’t in the same predicament as BA yet, but 2009 has only just begun and expect sooner rather than later, both airlines will have to make some tough decisions if they are going to continue to buy new aircraft.

Standing by for incoming.

blackguard
7th Feb 2009, 05:53
When Qantas was first floated there was some enthusiasm for staff ownership.Somewhere around 6% share ownership(Stand to be corrected)allows for a seat on the board.
One of the biggest problems was apathy.Another was determing just who was going to represent staff at a board level.
The idea was for all staff mebers to borrow $10K and buy QF shares.This would allow for a gearing consideration and also meet the number for a board seat.Dont know who did the number crunching.
The idea never got off the ground.
It still has merit.Staff inclusion in decision making at QF could only have a positive effect.Southwest Airlines in the states is a glowing example

max autobrakes
13th Feb 2009, 09:30
Just don't do what Qantas management did! That is buy shares when the price was high and then go and sell when the price is low.

Just look at the latest UBS/ Macquarie passing around of the cap to raise working capital for Qantas.
What was it 270 Million shares sold at $1.85 each.

Wasn't it not long ago ,in fact just after the failed APA deal (which was backed by the very same Macquarie group )that announced a capital management plan to buy back millions of it's own shares?

Last April wasn't it? and didn't UBS clip the tickets too?
How much ,you ask, did that little exercise cost?
$504 million to buy 90.5 million shares which works out at $5.56 a share.

Bargain!!!

I wonder what sort of pressure these "smartest guys in the room " are under?

These wouldn't be the same guys who think Jetstar is the greatest business model ever envisaged either would they??
Are these also the same guys who paid $375 million for Star track Express which delivered ,wait for it, $6 million 1/2 year profit contribution to the group.
Can't wait to hear what AAE has cost and how much it's contributed to the bottom line too!

I bet they'll end up with their cut ,none the less!

The future is bright ,the future is orange!
Buy high sell low!:}

struggling
13th Feb 2009, 23:08
Don't worry! be happy! :D

AIPA Exec has successfully derailed Woodeye's push to make employee ownership available to all Qantas staff. Hear told his old mate Scoob ran off to the ACTU and there is now no way he or any other Qantas staff can utilise his ESOP idea to access the taxation concessions which would have been available to purchase Qantas shares at $1.85 using per tax dollars.

Talk about short sighted. Obiviously the clowns at AIPA can't read, don't know and don't care.

blow.n.gasket
14th Feb 2009, 08:59
This wouldn't be the one and same AIPA exec that had it's roots in the Emperor Holt reign now would it?
Is this the same exec who ran a clandestine campaign to sink EBA8 now was it?
Is this the same AIPA exec who won't touch anything to do with the Qantas Sale Act?

As Max wrote "The future is bright the future is orange":yuk:

A few observations if I may.
EBA 8 was going to cost the company a lot more than EBA 7.1/2
A pay rise of that magnitude will never bee seen again
(unless you're on the A380) (aren't most of the exec on the A380? figures!)
One facet of EBA8 that appears to be missed by many was the fact of a common hourly pay rate.
This would have been most important when push will come to shove with the introduction of any new aircraft type aka B787.
Why? well it comes down to tin tacks negotiating for access to that aircraft .One will just needs to adjust the hourly rate to be competitive and everyone wears the pain. Now I can guarantee you that when push comes to shove with the 787 the Senior Saviours on the Exec ,yes most of which are A380 pilots will pull the draw bridge up to protect their wicket and sacrifice the more junior masses.
By the way have a look at this EBA7 roll over, a major differentiation between it and the axed EBA8 was the fact that EBA8 attempted to disengage our award/contract from the aircraft type specific contract that EBA7?? is. (3/4 of this fleet is now entering the twilight years of it's useful economic life )ie aircraft flown with a red rat on the tail to be paid according to the contracted hourly rate, period, no negotiating, no haggling ,no flying the aircraft without a contracted pay amount for 6 months!.
I wonder how EBA8 would have affected the Jet Connect factor???

To paraphrase Max :"the future is bright and it's looking more orange every day!"
Thanx Bazza!!! I'm sure that MOU you helped negotiate under Emperor Holt will save the day!

Gingerbread
14th Feb 2009, 22:32
As I stated when I started this thread Blown, there are a lot of tough decision ahead. Believe many would agree with your observations that:

EBA 8 take two won't produce anything like the pay rises version one would have,
Shoring up job security and career progress for mainline pilots does rely on the Qantas sale act.However, IMHO Qantas won't agree again to guarantee that pilots who fly B787's in Qantas colours will do so on EBA8 terms and conditions.

But do agree that the future is bright for all Qantas pilots provided they can move between the Regionals, Jetstar & Qantas.

Part of weaving the fabric to accommodate all Qantas pilots is employee ownership but as I have stated elsewhere the AIPA exec has nailed it.