Parafield Mid-Air

[Time Bomb Ted]

I just heard there was a mid-air at Parafield involving two FTA aircraft. Anyone have some info?
I have a friend flying there at the moment.

TBT

[kingRB]

whats the source on this?

I just called to check at PF - no emergency services buzzing around or anything to signify this.. Was it at the aerodrome or in the training area / one of the inbound reporting points?

We have channel 9 & channel 10 news helicopters in our hangar and they are sitting dormant... Would indicate media doesnt seem to know anything about it.

Waiting on a phone call to the tower to check...

[coke drinker]

have we got anything more? i know a stack of people down there...

[kingRB]

update - seems something did occur before the tower opened this morning.

Apparently minor damage and whatever / whoever was involved landed without incident.

[havick]

King RB, only channel 7 flies weekends anyway (hence being dormant)

[cbradio]

anyone know any more?

maybe Grobs are pretty strong!!

[Track5milefinal]

Interesting, I have not heard anything!

Surprised it hasn't been blown out of proportion by the good ol media and all the whining protesters trying to shut the airport down!!!

[Flygirl__37]

Two Aircraft on finals. Tobago and Grob, clipped wings apparantly. No injuries.

[Natit]

clipped wings apparantly

Wrong... find a new source!

Glad to hear it ended safely, unlike Bankstown and Moorabin a few months ago :sad:

[Lasiorhinus]

Natit, perhaps you could enlighten us as to your source, and to what really happened. If you have more accurate information, please add to the discussion, rather than denouncing other posters as wrong, with nothing to back up your claims.

[Oz_TB10]

Anyone got the real story and the rego of the "so called" incident?

Might have flown it before.

[Flygirl__37]

Ok, so another 'source' (one of the instructors) states, that the grob cliped the tobago on finals.... not sure on the rego, but the incident report will be about somewhere.:hmm:

[Oz_TB10]

Flygirl,

Could you PM me the instructors name?Thanks!

[cbradio]

"so called" incident?


I don't know the details, that's why I asked, but there is nothing "so called" about two aircraft running into each other airborne in a circuit.

the silence is deafening!

[kingRB]

as I understand it, being kept under very close raps in the hope the media doesnt latch onto it.

[Natit]

Lasiorhinus.. can't devulge any info sorry mate. Just be happy that everyone landed safely.

[Ovation]

Here is some of the latest "gossip" from Parafield.

The mid-air incident may (or may not) have happened before (or after) the TWR opened, and there were more (or possibly less) than the maximum permitted (of 5) aircraft operating in the circuit.

What I have seen with my own eyes, is a Tobago parked in the far NE corner of their hangar with a green tarp covering the fin and rudder. This suggests the rudder has been clipped by a wing, a wheel or a prop.

Callsign might have been VH-YTG.

Aviation Photos: VH-YTG (http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?regsearch=VH-YTG&distinct_entry=true)

The media have a sniff of it and have been ringing around the flight schools asking questions but not getting too much cooperation AFAIK.

[Bevan666]

Ooh ooh oooh I need some parts for the front end of my TB-10.. :ok:

(Cowls, engine mounts, nosewheel assembly...)


((Glad everyone was OK))

Bevan..

[Ovation]

Looks like FTA's fessed up, with local Channels 7 and 10 broadcasting the story on tonight's news with CASA's Peter Gibson chipping in too.

As you would expect, Sleazy Seven went to a nearby shopping center to get as much negative comment from the locals. :*

[sthaussiepilot]

Unfortunatly I saw that pathetic journalism on channel seven aswell "Ovation"

Why do they have to go and get useless opinions from people who have really got no idea... :ugh:

[havick]

gents, it's easy to criticise, but what are they supposed to go on if no-one gives them anything?

see a couple of 'ovation's earlier post regarding them ringing around the flight schools for info.

[Ovation]

sthaussiepilot wrote:

Why do they have to go and get useless opinions from people who have really got no idea.

Because most of those people with useless uninformed opinions watch Seven news I guess. Channel Ten was far more factual and objective.

[Top_Cat]

What's really weird is that I can't find a single article online about this. I missed the news coverage. If anyone has a link to share.......

[Flygirl__37]

I spoke to a few ppl out there, some issue with lack of communication between pilots, as ATC was not online at that point. But lets hope the main thing to come of all this is that ppl learn from it and thankfully no one was hurt.
The last thing we all want is a bad rap from the media, I heard that they are keen to try to shut parafield down due to complaints from local residents? Not sure if thats the truth.... any comments or feedback?

[coke drinker]

Flygirl, that area is perpetuated by some rather stupid people who built their house next to a busy airport and then started whinging! In fact three of them, as Parafield, Edinburgh and Adelaide are pretty much on top of each other. The resentment in the community is quite high. I know because I was there for quite a while and there is an active shut down Parafield Airport organisation who are quite vocal. There was often stuff in the local areas.. Even at one stage when a BE76 had an undercarriage issue, there were news crews out there to capture it. Despite the aircraft landing without incident!

[Natit]

I heard that they are keen to try to shut parafield down due to complaints from local residents?

Here is an example of exactly what you're talking about. Taken from this website and posted late last year.

http://news-review-messenger.whereilive.com.au/news/story/mayoral-call-for-parafield-liftoff/ (Time Parafield Airport Buzzed Off)

PARAFIELD Airport should be relocated to make way for housing, Salisbury Mayor Gillian Aldridge said.

“The airport has been good for the city but we have a new vision for our city,” she told the News Review Messenger.

“An airport in the middle of Salisbury is not what’s best for Salisbury.”

Ms Aldridge said there were better uses for the 437ha land saying more housing was needed to cope with Salisbury’s booming population.

“Let’s redevelop that land into nice open spaces and housing,” she said.

Ms Aldridge said the airport should be moved further north in the “Wakefield electorate” but did not specify where.

She said noise caused by Parafield was another reason for relocation.

The mayor’s call to relocate Parafield Airport came in the same week as a fatal light plane crashed in Victoria. A trainee pilot from Moorabbin Airport, in Melbourne’s south, crashed into a suburban garage and burst into flames after a mid-air collision.

Ms Aldridge said safety concerns were not behind her call to relocate Parafield.

“I’ve personally lived there for 43 years and have never felt unsafe living under a flight path,” she said.

Flight Training Adelaide (FTA) operates a flying school at Parafield and company CEO Johan Pienaar said the airport had an excellent safety record.

“Before any inexperienced person is allowed to fly they have to meet all the minimal requirements,” he said.

“There’s always people that are going to complain regardless were you build it.”

Federal Wakefield (ALP) MP Nick Champion said he would be happy to look at a proposal but that any move would be made only after consultation with local community, businesses and airport owners.


Funny thing is, most people in the area can't afford to live anywhere else so they buy up where it's cheap (and also where there is an airport) and then start complaining :ugh:

[Flygirl__37]

Personally,... I love living under the flight path, but I am one of those 'strange' aviators.. LOL:O

Natit, its so true what u say. If they shut down parafield, they will just start complaining about something else. No matter what happens, there is always someone who has too much time on their hands to think about things.

[coke drinker]

I also question how Salisbury's population is booming. I know for a fact that last year was the first time in a decade that Adelaide's population had gone up!

[Flygirl__37]

Not sure on that one Coke Drinker, there is alot of development out that way, especially Mawson Lakes (think thats what its called)... Have been driving out there alot over the last 2 weeks, and did my first flt out of parafield the other day... lots of things happening. Maybe they think that they will get the airfield for development some day soon?

[Top_Cat]

Personally, xenophobia plays its part here too. The most oft-quoted information, apart from the noise pollution aspects, concerns the foreign students/trainers which use the facility. Deep down, I think this has all the hallmarks of the old 'yellow peril'.

Anyway, to get Parafield to move, the advocacy groups would have to convince a federal court to overturn the 50-year lease on the property by Adelaide Airport. Good luck with that.

The two sites mooted are Murray Bridge and Mallala I believe. Nice drive out to both, to be honest, and as a local student, to continue my flight training, I'd be willing to make them. But gee, if I can avoid it....

[The Truckie]

There should be a law that states if you move into an area where there is an airport you are not allowed to bitch about aircraft noise!
If I was in charge of any Airport, I would offer free sound proofing to any resident under the flight path who was living there before the airport was built. I think you will find that there would probably be one 95 year old deaf lady able to get it. The rest can go and get f$%&ed!
:E

[Track5milefinal]

Murray Bridge and Mallala I believe. Nice drive out to both


You have got to be kidding me!


to continue my flight training, I'd be willing to make them.


Geez big statement! Hiring a 152 at 200/hr is bad enough let alone driving a few hrs out in the sticks with petrol at $1.50 a litre

Someones cashed up!:E:E

[mostlytossas]

Highly unlikely to move anywhere. I've been in Adelaide for years and every now and then some nob pops up with the sell off Parafield bit. When you actually look into it deeper you find these same people have vested interests such as developers or local traders that have a wish list.
The airport operators have a lease ( I thought for 99yrs but might be 50) which a condition of is it has to be retained as an airport. The lease holder is allowed to sub lease certain areas for commercial development and that is why you see Bunnings etc on the boundarys. In any even even if the lease was recinded there would be probably more people protesting for it's retentsion as who wants another urban sprawl? Not in tune with current planning techniques where you have open buffer zones between suburbs for water recyling and catchment/wetlands etc. So a GA airport fills the bill nicely.

[Ovation]

This is a little "off topic", but for those who don't know, there was a swathe of land taken from the South end of Parafield to allow the new road to go through.

For Parafield Airport Limited (PAL) to agree to the resumption of that piece of land for the road, the authorities (government) agreed to allow PAL to rezone a significant amount of land to Commercial/Industrial. It's in the SW corner of RWY 21 and RWY 26.

The stroke of a pen created a potential benefit to PAL of around $200M.

Not bad for an investment of about $10M, with the main beneficiary being (I believe) one of Adelaide's finest boy's School.

[Top_Cat]

Geez big statement! Hiring a 152 at 200/hr is bad enough let alone driving a few hrs out in the sticks with petrol at $1.50 a litre

Someones cashed up!http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/evil.gifhttp://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/evil.gif

No, I pay for the whole lot myself. I publicly claim that I just wanna fly but I'm sure deep down, it's just good old fashioned wholesome masochism. There's an element of trying to look at the brightside of double the travel time for flight training too.....

Petrol hasn't been $1.50/L for a while, though. :8

[strim]

Sooo, any more info on the collision?

Word surely has spread around by now.

[Death Pencil]

Sooo, any more info on the collision?

Word surely has spread around by now.


Surely there is enough info in the first half of this thread for you to gossip about.

The people involved are fine so it seems. Apart from that... who :mad:ing cares.

:ugh:

[strim]

Surely there is enough info in the first half of this thread for you to gossip about.

The people involved are fine so it seems. Apart from that... who http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/censored.gifing cares.


I care, and many of the other pilots who operate out of PF care.

We need to know what caused the incident, so we can put methods in place to make sure it doesn't happen in the future.

This isn't about gossip, it's about safety. I've lost count of the number of times I've had a faceful of Tobago or Grob when operating in CTAF purely because they haven't made the required calls. I need to be able to describe this situation to my company pilots so that they can avoid near misses like this in the future.

I'm aware the people involved are OK, that is obviously a good outcome. However this had the potential to be extremely serious. Just because the outcome was OK, doesn't mean we dismiss the incident and say 'who fing cares..'. That kind of attitude doesn't sit well in aviation.

[Death Pencil]

Well if you have the best of intentions, and it is an ongoing problem... perhaps a go and talk to FTA? (CASA?) Get the facts, and deal with the problem properly.

I don't think the speculations posted on a rumour network can be overly beneficial. :rolleyes:

[beer bong]

Strim!

I've lost count of the number of times I've had a faceful of Tobago or Grob when operating in CTAF purely because they haven't made the required calls.

You obviosly use the radio, not your eyes to avoid aircraft in non towered operations, so I am not surprised you have a "faceful of Tobago".

:ugh:

[Icarus53]

Investigation preliminary report :
200900296 (http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2009/AAIR/aair200900296.aspx)

Investigation continuing. At least it conclusively states that CTAF(R) was in effect.

Any chance we could not let this turn into a see-and-avoid argument? Gonna need some serious drugs to get that horse on its feet.

[flyingfrenchman]

Not sure what or where you guys/girls (Death Pencil and beer bong) fly but I can say from experience that its not only not making the required radio calls but in some cases just not understanding instructions that is plaguing Parafields skies. Not to mention the lack of understanding of other aircraft performance. These incidents are not only limited to outside tower hours.

I would suggest in a number of cases it has been other pilots good lookouts that have averted accidents in the area. It would seem that in strims case the other pilot wasn't looking out, making calls or understanding strims.

As for speculations on a rumour network.... pretty sure your reading them

[Death Pencil]

As for speculations on a rumour network.... pretty sure your reading them


Nice observation frenchman... :D

I am reading them... but certainly not going to base some form of safety education/intervention on what is posted on here, as strim is hoping to do.... "Well... from what I've read on pprune...". :hmm:

This isn't the place to address the issues "plaguing Parafields skies".
Stick to the ATSB report, and do something a little more beneficial such as talking to FTA, other flying schools at PF, CASA etc. or whoever will actually make a change in how things are.

[flyingfrenchman]

I think this is the place to spread the word to other pilots in the industry flying higher performance machines into Parafield to have eyes in the back of their head until the situation is rectified. Its spreading knowledge to people it may affect, I dare say that is making things safer.

[Tibbsy]

You obviosly use the radio, not your eyes to avoid aircraft in non towered operations, so I am not surprised you have a "faceful of Tobago".

Jeez Beer Bong, you must have the world's best scan if you've seen everything around you. :ok:

The mandatory calls are there for a reason. They are as important as a good scan is.

[Ovation]

Beer Bong wrote:

You obviously use the radio, not your eyes to avoid aircraft in non towered operations, so I am not surprised you have a "faceful of Tobago".

The recent mid-air at 2RN (2 fatalities) highlights the limitations of see and avoid, and we're talking very experienced pilots involved here. I have the benefit of TCAD and it's difficult to eyeball en-route traffic at 2 MI when you know exactly where to look. At YPPF the traffic blends into suburbia and is equally as difficult to spot.

There's the expectation that radio position reports in the circuit are (within reason) accurate, however there are pilots who are dumb and stupid (or in some cases arrogant), and what they tell you may be incorrect, such as calling (and turning) BASE on downwind abeam the numbers, or the Chipmunk in a barrel roll across my downwind path at YLTV.

An added complication is understanding what the position report is actually telling you (at YPPF in particular), unless you are fluent in Singrish (no offence intended).

[Top_Cat]

Nice observation frenchman... :D

I am reading them... but certainly not going to base some form of safety education/intervention on what is posted on here, as strim is hoping to do.... "Well... from what I've read on pprune...". http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/yeees.gif

This isn't the place to address the issues "plaguing Parafields skies".
Stick to the ATSB report, and do something a little more beneficial such as talking to FTA, other flying schools at PF, CASA etc. or whoever will actually make a change in how things are.

Surely you're not denying the importance of an informal network amongst professionals (or, in this case, a mix of pro's and students)? Rubbishing them is counter-productive, often erroneous and pilots being the quick-filtering, cut-the-bull**** collators of information they are, if there wasn't a need for it, likely it wouldn't exist. The same sorts of networks exist amongst regulation-heavy working environments like intelligence, law enforcement, emergency services, etc. Official investigations take time, as do flow-on policy changes (a coroner's investigation, even for a fairly clear-cut death, will still take around 2 years for example). People will talk and will not be in full possession of the facts, this is just reality. Saying "STFU n00b, wait for the official report" is pissing in the wind.

Even if the sum total of the gossip is 'make sure you do a decent lookout', the probability of another incident is lessened and the more we have persons close to the action in here commenting, the better off we'll all be. If everyone did it right, there'd be no need to re-iterate it, yeah? You're right that no-one should treat this site as their only source of safety info. Can't think of many people who would do that, though. What you're advocating (chat to FTA, etc.), people will likely do anyway. That informs the individual. Posting stuff on here helps with promulgating it.

[adam210]

Well well well... Flight Training Adelaide at it again... Bunch of bastards.. A little birdy is telling me the reason for the mid-air cover up was because one of the staff involved was on a 457 visa. Then -allegedly- the CEO himself Seof Effrican Mr PP went out on the runway to pull the damaged aircraft back to the hangar. What's wrong boys, did you get sick of getting called pilot boy and fetch coffe back at SAA? Did SHE have to show you her mamma's so she could keep her job?

Yes i have a grudge against FTA, because they will treat you like crap if you are an ozzie. Ask all the QFI's that work there. Goes on to show why the Air Safety Officer DP resigned ....

So i have a message for you , dear FTA: what goes around comes around.

[Lasiorhinus]

QFIs?

So what's the difference between a QFI and an FI?

[swh]

One can make all the "required" radio calls and still collide.

So what's the difference between a QFI and an FI?

One works in GA for a living

[WakeUpJeff]

Did SHE have to show you her mamma's so she could keep her job?


:= Think what you like about the management and foreign influences at FTA adam210, but all the above quote indicates is your complete peurility.

OMG I can't believe I bit! :O

[Track5milefinal]

I think everyone knows the goings on at FTA!

I think you have to wake up Jeff:eek:

[Track5milefinal]

Even a quick search of the rego on uncle google will find who operates them!

Why do they bother?:confused: