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IRpilot2006
6th Feb 2009, 19:30
How to get an item on Ebay for free?

Buy it, pay with Paypal, and then without any communication with the seller file a "false description" claim with Paypal.

Paypal will tell you the seller agreed to a refund if he gets the item back (which the seller never did agree to), then will ask you for a proof of posting the item back and then they refund the money which will have been deducted from the seller's account.

Obviously the thing you send back can be anything, an empty jiffy bag will do.

There is no defence and no appeal.

Paypal is just a computer. No human presence anywhere.

The only way to minimise this is to ban Paypal payments or ban foreign bidders. UK bidders rarely do this, not because they are more honest but because they know you can go after them through the small claims court.

mustpost
6th Feb 2009, 19:50
Hmmm
and your point is, Caller? didn't we already know this? :ugh:

sorry :O

unstable load
7th Feb 2009, 02:31
All of which probably goes to explaining why I (as a furriner) was told that I would get my goods mailed when he got the cash in his mitts.

Still paid via PayPal, though. Wonderful Saffrican invention, that.

Flap 5
7th Feb 2009, 08:27
Maybe the title of the thread should be: Beware of Ebay.

Paypal are just the system of payment with a distance buying / selling arrangement that is open to fraud. The terms and conditions of Ebay are mainly to protect Ebay.

Invicta DC4
7th Feb 2009, 08:58
Having been stung by Paypal in the past, as soon as any money is paid into my account, I withdraw it.

Unfortunately, eBay changed the rules for sellers last year and you have to offer Paypal as a payment option.

eBay has it all stitched up, fees on selling, fees for Paypal transactions. :*

IRpilot2006
7th Feb 2009, 09:09
Having been stung by Paypal in the past, as soon as any money is paid into my account, I withdraw it.

Can't Paypal stick a direct debit on your bank to recover the money?

Invicta DC4
7th Feb 2009, 09:24
Paypal can't take money from your bank account. If there is a dispute, they stop you withdrawing money until it is settled. If you have already withdrawn it and they find in the buyer's favour (as they always will do), your account runs into negative figures. Just means you have to stop using Paypal (& eBay).

From bitter experience! :(

Keef
7th Feb 2009, 10:30
I've never had a problem, with many hundreds of Ebay purchases (and a few sales) over the years.

The standard "beware" factors apply:
- only buy from sellers with a reasonable number of sales behind them, and feedback of 99% or better;
- never sell outside your home country, and delete any bids that are from folk with no or low feedback. You need to specify in the listing that you'll do that.

Ebay and Paypal are pretty much totally automated. There is no human involvement unless you get very deeply involved, with lawsuits and all. Ebay feedback is everything.

ukc_mike
7th Feb 2009, 11:06
delete any bids that are from folk with no or low feedback

So just how do you expect people to make their first purchases?

Keef
7th Feb 2009, 11:48
So just how do you expect people to make their first purchases?
They buy small items, to build up credibility, like I had to. When I'd got to 10 purchases, all small stuff under 50, I had no problems being "rejected".

IRpilot2006
7th Feb 2009, 16:51
I have almost never had problems with Ebay purchases. OK, sometimes the item is pretty substandard but that is par for the course for buying a 3 item from China.

The problems have been concentrated totally on sales of more valuable items, say 100+, to buyers outside the UK.

A friend of mine has been on Ebay for years buying and selling old coins, and he is now blocking all foreign buyers. Too many scammers.

goatface
7th Feb 2009, 17:57
Never, ever had any problems with Paypal, but the way to avoid such problems is to have your paypal account linked directly to you bank account, not a credit card.
When I make a purchase using Paypal, the money comes straight out of my bank account, when I make a purchase the money goes, via Paypal, immediately into my current account.
Effectively I never have any money in the Paypal account, I only ever owe them money for Ebay handling charges and the debit balance is charged to my current account at the end of each month.
As has been stated, aside from this, Ebay are not permitted to debit other charges (i.e refunds) without your permission.

IRpilot2006
7th Feb 2009, 18:45
I never knew that. I often left significant balances in the account, following some sales activity. Won't be doing that anymore!

Invicta DC4
7th Feb 2009, 21:18
A buyer's feedback on eBay means diddly squat these days as sellers are unable to leave a buyer negative feedback. This was another change eBay made last year. So when you get scammed, screwed, defrauded call it what you like especially from some lying scumbag to**er in Arizona (I'm not bitter!), you can do nothing about it.

Rant over.

Mish Nish
7th Feb 2009, 21:35
Whatever Ebay says a seller's feedback is, go and check it at Toolhaus.org.

Toolhaus documents neutral and negative feedback, with comments, back to the beginning of time, and all a seller's (or a buyer's) dirty laundry is aired, in perpetuity. ;)

The way Ebay is set up now, it only shows relatively recent feedback history.

randyat1001
7th Feb 2009, 23:40
Thanks for the link, I had not seen that site before

r44flyer
8th Feb 2009, 01:10
There are many reported instances of Paypal removing funds directly from a bank account following a buyer dispute.

There are other instances of Paypal 'piggy-backing' other transactions you make subsequent to the disputed one. ie. you send payment via Paypal for something unrelated and Paypal debits your Paypal account for the disputed sum as well, sends it back to the buyer, and now you're in the red to Paypal. They do then attempt to get it out of your account. I don't know how they do it, but they do it.

If that happens, and they freeze your account until they receive payment, the only thing you can realistically do is forget about your Paypal account, and presumably ebay, make sure there are no direct debits of any kind on your account, and watch it like a hawk. If they debit anything get the bank to reverse it as an unauthorised payment under the direct debit indemnity.

Paypal is a con. If you must use it, buy from business sellers with solid feedback, send everything via insured postage with tracking if you can't afford to lose it.

r44flyer
8th Feb 2009, 01:17
goatface ...by the sound of it you have set up a variable direct debit facility with Paypal, authorising them to adjust payments to be taken from your current account (as fees). If you owe them money as a result of a dispute you can guarantee they will use the power you have given them to take the money out of your account.

It's always easier to make advance payments via credit card to your account, any chargeback to the card can be cancelled immediately as a fraudulent transaction.

cockney steve
8th Feb 2009, 01:32
PayPalSucks.Org, Home of the PayPalSucks.Org Cartoons & critical commentary on PayPal.com (http://paypalsucks.org/)

There is also "paypal sucks.com".....both will give you a better understanding of how this rapacious,immoral company operates.

At one time, they used a "post-drop" address in southern england, the mail being uplifted twice-weekly and shipped to their offices in Eireland, however their activities were controlled by the Financial Services Authority and many people with unauthorised charges to their accounts, or their money "frozen" by Pay Pay-successfully sued (PayPay NEVER appeared in court to defend their thievery)

They moved their European operation to Luxembourg.....I don't know or care if they still are subject to UK law, I won't use them again.

I've never been caught , but read about the huge American Class Action against them and their continued abuse of small users.

Pay Pay and fleabay are left and right hands of the same body. If i can't pay by alternative means, i won't trade and insist on cash/collect for any large deals.

17thhour
8th Feb 2009, 02:31
recently i sold an iPod on ebay, which the buyer paid for and i then sent the ipod.

the most infuriating thing then happened, in that they begun what they call a "charge back"... so paypal went into my account and took 90, and awarded it to them because apparently their card was used without their consent!

did i get my ipod back? nope! :ugh: