Second Fake LAME Identifed

[fordran]

We knew there must have been a reason all our licences were being checked. Maybe Glen can share a jail cell with Tim.



Qantas sacks fake engineer Ben Schneiders


February 7, 2009

QANTAS has allowed an unqualified employee to undertake critical and specialist maintenance work on its aircraft, The Age can reveal, in the latest blow to the safety reputation of the airline.

Last night the Civil Aviation Safety Authority said it had ordered Qantas to immediately identify all the work done by the employee over the past two years and assess the risk to air safety of each piece of work.

A CASA directive identified the employee as Glen Townsend, and well-placed airline sources said the man had been working as a licensed engineer in Sydney, work he was not qualified to do, on aircraft used for domestic and international flights.

The authority has also ordered an audit of the qualifications of all Qantas licensed engineers — a process that Qantas said it is undertaking.

CASA spokesman Peter Gibson said the issue was serious as licensed engineers are required to have the highest-possible qualifications and sign off and supervise the maintenance work done by others.

He said responsibility for checking qualifications lies with the airline that employs licensed engineers.

The latest case follows the sentencing in December of Timothy McCormack to a minimum of two years' jail after he faked qualifications to work as a licensed engineer at Qantas.

McCormack had been employed as a lower-level maintenance engineer but started wearing the uniform of a licensed engineer and performing more important tasks.

It can often take 10 years training to work as a licensed engineer, with 25 basic exams, a four-year apprenticeship and hundreds of hours learning to work on a particular type of aircraft.

A Qantas spokesman confirmed that the latest case involved an employee who was an aircraft maintenance engineer who was doing work "he was not licensed to do".

The spokesman said the matter was being treated "very seriously" and the man's employment had been terminated. He was qualified to undertake Boeing 767 maintenance work but not to certify the work of other engineers.

"We do not believe there are any flight safety issues," the Qantas spokesman said.

Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association federal secretary Steve Purvinas expressed regret at the latest incident.

"He is not a member of ours but it is very disappointing that people are falsifying records to try and acquire the same qualifications that we studied for many years ourselves to obtain," he said.

Mr Purvinas said CASA was ineffective.

"I don't blame Qantas; they only work within the framework and guidelines set by CASA," he said. "Some organisations are proactive, others with a little less foresight are reactive, but the only word we could use to describe CASA is inactive."

Sources also blamed cut-backs to the Qantas training programs in recent years as part of the problem.

The latest case follows a string of safety problems at Qantas last year including a mid-air drama where a 747 was forced to make an emergency landing after a hole was blown in its side. In another case an aircraft returned from maintenance in Malaysia with problems with its rudder and navigation systems while a flight attendant soon after received two electric shocks in the galley.

Qantas was also involved with the engineers association in a long-running industrial dispute for much of last year that saw, at its peak in May and June, the grounding of scores of planes. The airline estimated about 100,000 passengers were either seriously delayed or had their flights cancelled during those eight weeks.

[hadagutfull]

What does this mean from the above article " He was qualified to undertake Boeing 767 maintenance work but not to certify the work of other engineers."

Was he a LAME but not 767 rated or did he only have a Transit Authority on the 767???

As for having my licence checked again... for the 3rd time, My reply is "go to hell". It has been verified already as legit and its all on CASA records as me having passed all my basics, type exams etc for each type I hold.

What difference is it going to make if another "manager" looks at it again to tell me if its legit or not. :ugh:

[another superlame]

Or had he done a JTP course but wasn't on Eq and unable to sign.

This is just poor journalism not reporting all the facts, or doesn't

understand the licensing system. Either way the poo is likely to hit the fan

[Nepotisim]

What does this mean from the above article " He was qualified to undertake Boeing 767 maintenance work but not to certify the work of other engineers."

Was he a LAME but not 767 rated or did he only have a Transit Authority on the 767???

Wouldn't that mean he was an AME (qualified to work on aircraft), but not certify the work of other engineers(not licenced)?

[fordran]

Or had he done a JTP course but wasn't on Eq and unable to sign.

This is just poor journalism not reporting all the facts, or doesn't

understand the licensing system.


This is not poor journalism, this has been written for the average Australian to understand. The guy has been sacked means a lot more then - he had completed a JTP 767 Airframe course and had obtained a CASA rating but hadn't completed a lame induction course and therefore was not recorded on the EQ system.

This tool didn't even have all his basics and word coming back from Sydney is that there may be 2 others also.

[Ngineer]

If he had done the JTP course and had a CASA Licence that was not on EQ, then I would agree that this is a cost cutting issue. (if the airline would not pay him to use it). However if this was the case, one would be crazy to be signing as a LAME.

If all he had was a JTP completed course and no basics, this is not an issue of cost cutting.

Either way in an instance such as this, it would be the individual at fault who knew he was signing illegaly. And of course, there are issues and cracks within the airline system of maintenance to allow this to happen on many occassions.

Expect the usual bullcr@p, that is we will put an auditing system in place to ensure this does not happen again.

Who was it that said "Imitation was a form of flattery"?

[mention1]

McCormack had been employed as a lower-level maintenance engineer but started wearing the uniform of a licensed engineer and performing more important tasks.

Maybe Leonardo DiCaprio could play him in the forthcoming Hollywood movie!:O

[Ngineer]

This tool didn't even have all his basics

If this guy did not have all his basics and held a CASA licence, then obviously there are flaws within CASA who granted it to him.

[framer]

The next thing will be that he worked on one of the recent incident a/c and they'll have to determine the extent of involvement etc.

[Ngineer]

A few years ago you could have used "/for lame" to check out any licence credentials of the guys you were working with within QF. You can't even do that these days since it has been changed. This has further opened up an avenue for this to happen.

[fordran]

If this guy did not have all his basics and held a CASA licence, then obviously there are flaws within CASA who granted it to him.

Have heard he didn't have the basics or a CASA licence, he just started signing.

I was forwarded a CASA directive to Qf issued yesterday (I don't know how to post it here) ordering Qf to check all their records and report back in 3 weeks. This is just got to be some sort of a sick joke. When will casa work out the self auditing doesn't work. Do we need to wait for 300 funerals before they actually do something?

[fordran]

Here we go -



Instrument number CASA 82/09

I, William Bruce Byron, Director of Aviation Safety, on behalf of CASA, make this instrument under regulation 11.245 of the Civil Aviation Safety Regulations 1998 (CASR 1998).

[Signed Bruce Byron]

Bruce Byron
Director of Aviation Safety and
Chief Executive Officer

5 February 2009

Directions — Qantas Airways Limited

1 Commencement

This instrument commences on 6 February 2009.

2 Application

This instrument applies to Qantas Airways Limited, Aviation Reference Number (ARN) 216147 (the operator).

3 Directions

(1) The operator is given the directions mentioned in Schedule 1.

(2) Each direction in Schedule 1 is a separate direction.

Schedule 1 Directions

Direction 1

1 The operator must undertake an audit to identify and verify the currency and validity of the maintenance- and engineering-related qualifications, authorisations, ratings, endorsements, approvals and permissions held by all of the operator’s personnel who:

(a) hold an aircraft maintenance engineer licence issued under regulation 31 of the Civil Aviation Regulations 1988 (CAR 1988); or

(b) hold an airworthiness authority issued under regulation 33B of CAR 1988; or

(c) authorised to approve the design of a modification or repair of an aircraft or aircraft component under regulation 35 of CAR 1988;

in the performance of their duties as the operator’s employees, may certify for the completion of maintenance in relation to aircraft operated by the operator, and aircraft components and materials fitted to, or used in or on, those aircraft, approve the design of a modification or repair of an aircraft or aircraft component at any location within or outside Australian territory.

2 On or before 27 February, the operator is directed to provide CASA with the full name and ARN of any person whose qualifications were assessed for the purposes of the audit mentioned in clause 1 and who was found to have exercised the privileges of a maintenance engineer licence (including a rating or endorsement in respect of such a licence), an airworthiness authority or an authorisation to approve the design of a modification or repair without holding the necessary licence (rating or endorsement), authority or authorisation including the date(s) and the location(s) where this occurred.

Direction 2

The operator is directed immediately to:

(a) identify all maintenance certified by Glen Andrew Le Marseny Townsend, ARN 513513, on any of the operator’s aircraft, aircraft component or aircraft material over the 24-month period preceding the date of this direction; and

(b) provide to CASA in writing by, or before, 27 February 2009, the following information:

(i) the date(s) on which, and location(s) where, Glen Andrew Le Marseny Townsend certified for the completion of maintenance; and

(ii) an assessment of the risk to air safety the operator believes each such instance posed at the time, and thereafter.

Direction 3

1 The operator is directed to undertake immediately an assessment of the risk to air safety presented by the operation of the systems, processes and procedures the operator relies on to monitor and manage, on an ongoing basis, the validity and currency of the licences, authorities and authorisations held by the operator’s maintenance and engineering personnel.

2 The operator must submit to CASA on, or before, 27 February 2009, a report, in writing, describing and discussing the results of that risk assessment.




link

ComLaw Legislative Instruments - Attachment - CASA 82/09 – Directions – Qantas Airways Limited (http://www.comlaw.gov.au/ComLaw/Legislation/LegislativeInstrument1.nsf/framelodgmentattachments/E3FD97D039918B87CA2575550004B59A)

[UPPERLOBE]

Funny how this never happened before the cost cutting started.

There was a long established system to ensure that all certifiers were in order. Had someone listened to or indeed actually bothered to involve those who ran those systems none of this would have happened.

Looks like Qantas Engineering is neck deep in buzzword sprouting, ego centric, sham artist, faux managers.

What is it going to take to clean the place out and restore some sanity?

[another superlame]

Wow you know you have done wrong when the Head of a national authority calls you by your full name.

There is a person on Facebook of the same name anyone know if it is the same person

[Qantas 787]

With all the stories in the media about QF, why do they all go to the engineering union for a quote? That guy is getting plenty of chances to have his name in the papers thats for sure. All the union does is says "CASA needs to do something" etc - come up with something constructive if you are going to comment

[employes perspective]

Quote:
Originally Posted by hadagutful
What does this mean from the above article " He was qualified to undertake Boeing 767 maintenance work but not to certify the work of other engineers."

Was he a LAME but not 767 rated or did he only have a Transit Authority on the 767???

Wouldn't that mean he was an AME (qualified to work on aircraft), but not certify the work of other engineers(not licenced)?




you don't need any qualifications to work on aircraft in Australia full stop,as long as your work is signed off by a LAME

[Wod]

Why is this a QF issue from CASA perspective rather than a wider Industry issue.

I understand that the deceit was identified in QF, but I would have thought CASA would do a circular (belts and braces ) requirement for the National Jets, VBs, Alliances etc.

[BrissySparkyCoit]

So when will they start auditing managers to see which ones are genuine and which ones are idiots posing? Or would that be a major embarassment?

[framer]

BrissySparkyCoit So when will they start auditing managers to see which ones are genuine and which ones are idiots posing? Or would that be a major embarassment?
Too right. If there was a way of quantifying the risks to safety caused as a result of short sighted self-serving cost-cutting management, CASA would be very busy indeed with it's directives.

[Hardworker]

Apparently there are another 4 guys being looking into by CASA, it seems Mr Hespe must take responsibility for this, he ran from the last fake at the SIT and they moved him to Base for protection and now another four...!!!!
Management outsourcing and cost cutting - what a great way to go!
Time to take some responsibility for all of this Mr Cox, Mr Hespe, Mr Mc Dermont!

[airsupport]

I find it incredible that this is happening, even once never mind maybe several times.

Surely it is up to the Employer to thoroughly check new Employees, and also current Employees who gain extra qualifications.

Also with current Employees surely fellow Workmates would know whether or not they had done more courses, exams, OJT etc.

[1746]

A direct result of the complete dirth of inhouse training!

Another example of QE Management at work!

This management is quick to put their hands out for their bonuses now let us see them take responsibility publically!!!!:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[hadagutfull]

Its a catch 22 with training.... Wait for ever for the company to train you or spend thousands of dollars and your annual leave and go buy a course only to be told by your manager that the company has decided they are not going to pay you or recognize it because we dont need that licence...... a :mad:ing kick in the face.

Whilst I dont condone anyone cheating the system, the folk that are smarter than ourselves, have made the licencing system a complete farce and left it wide open to be exploited.

What is auditing our licences going to do?
How many of you were outside your 2 year re-currency on your ETOPS or CTS ( that includes all the crap like maint memos, quality and risk read and signs,etc) and still certifying?

How many times has EQ lost some of your info or qualifications let alone try to find it in there.....

We never had this problem when there was a dedicated tech training department.... you were put into a classroom when your stuff was due

Again, its all about how much they saved not training. Now they should really take a close look at how much it is going to cost them.... not just in $$$$$

As for the system, how does it fail?? You sit the basics, CASA issues you the results and have a record on the database... Qantas or any training provider should confirm this with CASA before you sit a type course... the official results of your type exams go to CASA... when you apply for a licence or rating.... they have all the info. TOO EASY.
If that still does not work.... then put a pitch fork up CASA's butt!

[toolowtoofast]

I find it incredible that this is happening, even once never mind maybe several times.

Surely it is up to the Employer to thoroughly check new Employees, and also current Employees who gain extra qualifications.

Also with current Employees surely fellow Workmates would know whether or not they had done more courses, exams, OJT etc.

i agree. maybe engineering need to take a leaf out of flight ops pages - or are there QF pilots flying around without a CPL?

[DutchRoll]

.......- or are there QF pilots flying around without a CPL?
Sheesh don't put a hex on it now mate. The way I've seen QF's admin system work sometimes, that could be entirely possible, even in Flight Ops!

They are fully capable of screwing up literally anything, and CASA wouldn't have a clue until after it happens.

[airsupport]

From what is posted here it would seem that the problem lies with Qantas, not CASA or the ALAEA or anyone else, except of course these Fake Engineers themselves.

I am not aware of this EVER happening before at any other Company, would that be correct, just Qantas and hopefully only recently?

[another superlame]

Did this guy just sign for aircraft when no one was looking?

At least Tim Mc had tried to fit in to conceal his deceit. From the reports

so far it seems this person has just certified for a/c without anyone

noticing. If this is the case then it would be QFs fault for not picking

it up in an audit. If it is signed off with a licence number that looks

legit then who would suspect it was fake.

So management is wanting all LAMEs to produce their licences again,

but this wont help if the person who is signing doesn't have a licence

and is getting around in a blue shirt.

Can anyone confirm if this person has any relevant qualifications, eg

basics, type course, GA licence

[Bumpfoh]

Or had he done a JTP course but wasn't on Eq and unable to sign.

Nope he definitely completed a QF 767 course in 2002 or there abouts. Question is did he legitimately pass all of the required basics (i.e AA) or not?

The QF system has him listed as an AME, not a LAME!

There alledgedly is a track record of deceit by this individual to the employer way back during his apprenticeship to the point of him being terminated only to be re-employed.:=

Good luck fool.:hmm:

[another superlame]

There are that many top quality AMEs and single type LAMEs at QF that would give their left testicle for a company run type course. And idiots like this who QF gave a second chance by re-employing him and a third chance with a type course,the selection criteria leaves a lot to be desired if this is the result.
Did Tim Mc also do a company type course?

[Bucaneer1979]

What blows me away is that these "fake engineers" are certifying QF a/c for the love of it. They are not getting paid any extra. Why bother?? Glory hunters maybe.

[Ngineer]

Hopefully this will lead to a crack down on the fake managers also. Some of them deserve some considerable penance for their sins.

[whatsupdoc]

Why did he get sacked as an apprentice???

[Hasherucf]

Ever thought that it might be a case of workplace pressure to get things done that these people start signing out aircraft ? There not doing it for money and you cant do it for glory.

[mahatmacoat]

As an apprentice he was sacked for forgery. On this occassion it was just a doctors certificate.

Gee this self regulation thing is working well isn't it. I had to sign a document declaring that I had only signed within the scope of my licence. I would think that anyone with the guts to sign aircraft out when they don't have a licence wouldn't have a problem with some letter to management. It seems more like an **** covering exercise.

[airsupport]

Gee this self regulation thing is working well isn't it. I had to sign a document declaring that I had only signed within the scope of my licence. I would think that anyone with the guts to sign aircraft out when they don't have a licence wouldn't have a problem with some letter to management.

Exactly, how stupid is that.

IF that is all they are doing to stop it, then what a waste of time.

[SCHAIRBUS]

This is an industry built on the honesty and integrity of the engineers and pilots that work in it.
The problem is not everyone is honest.
In the computer age it is far to easy to alter and forge documents.
Combine that with all the under resourced departments in the airlines and the regulator, then you have this situation occurring.
The only solution is vigilance by the guys on the job if somone turns with a license one day and it doesn't seem right there should be a way of checking them out.
A discrete email to CASA should be all that's required, a surveyor can do the rest.
I'm sure some will say this is a simplistic and naive solution but it beats trying to blame everyone.
Remember if you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem.
Speaking to people whom worked with Tim there were plenty of warning signs, it's also looking that way with the latest individual.

[Lodown]

Hang on there a minute Schairbus.

"Under-resourced departments" is whose fault?

"Vigilance" is not the only solution. It's one of many.

"A discrete email"? No! A private, secure, but very public method of fact checking would be helpful. Why hasn't this been done, or why hasn't this picked up a problem especially after the last time?

Not blaming everyone. But there are several issues here and they appear to revolve around insufficient or inappropriate supervision.

If there were plenty of warning signs, where is the disconnect preventing the notification from reaching the appropriate people who could rectify the situation? Or was the situation just left to fester because no one felt compelled to spill the beans or were they waiting for a supervisor to fall on his/her sword?

If I were a CASA investigator, there'd be some straightforward actions as a result of the actions of a single individual. If, as you suggested, there were plenty of warning signs, I and a team of headhunters would be going through QF engineering like a dose of salts.

[nut turner]

As mahatmacot has said, Self regulation doesn't work. Qantas and CASA had a pretty good system going, they granted the licence and Tech Training entered it into the system and along with QS&RM were the only ones who could make changes. Now to save some money they expect the individual to do it all on a system, eQ, that is so frustrating and difficult to use, is it any wonder problems arise. Where are the checks that should be in place, Tech Training won't do it, Training Co-ordinator gone, CASA and Quality shouldn't get away scott free either. The warning signs were there and they did nothing!

[Lodown]

The warning signs were there and they did nothing!

Wow! Makes you wonder what other bombs are waiting to be discovered hopefully before they go off.

Yep, self-regulation works...just like a group of kids with a loaded gun. Seeya Byron.

[K9P]

Yep, it just starts at the top and runs downhill.

[fordran]

Talk about a useless regulator they have directed Qf to check that all CAR 31 (lame) CAR 33b (MA) and repair authorities have only signed within the scope of their approvals. This order would not have picked up the two fake lames because they were not holders of any of the above approvals.

How could CASA be so incompetent even after Tim and Glen have been caught out? How many more are there and how will CASA even know? Will we have to wait another 12 months and have more press and go through this sham process again?




Direction 1
1 The operator must undertake an audit to identify and verify the currency and validity of the maintenance- and engineering-related qualifications, authorisations, ratings, endorsements, approvals and permissions held by all of the operator’s personnel who:
(a) hold an aircraft maintenance engineer licence issued under regulation 31 of the Civil Aviation Regulations 1988 (CAR 1988); or
(b) hold an airworthiness authority issued under regulation 33B of CAR 1988; or
(c) authorised to approve the design of a modification or repair of an aircraft or aircraft component under regulation 35 of CAR 1988;
in the performance of their duties as the operator’s employees, may certify for the completion of maintenance in relation to aircraft operated by the operator, and aircraft components and materials fitted to, or used in or on, those aircraft, approve the design of a modification or repair of an aircraft or aircraft component at any location within or outside Australian territory.
2 On or before 27 February, the operator is directed to provide CASA with the full name and ARN of any person whose qualifications were assessed for the purposes of the audit mentioned in clause 1 and who was found to have exercised the privileges of a maintenance engineer licence (including a rating or endorsement in respect of such a licence), an airworthiness authority or an authorisation to approve the design of a modification or repair without holding the necessary licence (rating or endorsement), authority or authorisation including the date(s) and the location(s) where this occurred.

[UPPERLOBE]

Too many layers removed...

Training Coordinator...
Tech school clerk...
SIT Planners...
Manpower Planners...

All of the above maintained records, sighted CASA licences, knew everyone and what training they'd done as well as WTF was going on.

This debacle was created by inept management, not CASA, sheet it home to wreckless cost cutting, nothing more nothing less!!!

[airsupport]

Talk about a useless regulator they have directed Qf to check that all CAR 31 (lame) CAR 33b (MA) and repair authorities have only signed within the scope of their approvals. This order would not have picked up the two fake lames because they were not holders of any of the above approvals.


Exactly.............. :ugh:

How stupid can they get. :ugh:

[fordran]

Sorry for starting this thread peoples. I thought there was a problem out at Mascot but all is ok. This is what a Qantas spokesperson said -

"We do not believe there are any flight safety issues," she said.

Would somebody please check her qualifications.

[empire4]

i find it amazing how much crap is written on this forum. Glen happens to be a good bloke. he has for the most part made a few mistakes that some other people i know at QF have and gotten away with it. If he has indeed done the worst then feel sorry for him. From all accounts i have heard something different to what is on here. He did do QF course. Added to that is the fact that we work with a flawed system,

that is. No photo on your casa licence, No liason between QF and casa when you first get your licence, No controlled stamp (overseas airlines use a stamp issued by QA once all your Qualifications are checked), self service of EQ. the list goes on. cost cut cost cut.!!!

Manaagement need to take the blame for once, why is it that it all passes back to the LAME. Not all people are honest as we have seen and i believe managements gamble with this trust may one day lead to loss of human life. who will take the blame then?

i had many dealings with tim mccormack, glen is not like him.

[whatsupdoc]

Has anyone actually got any legitimate proof that Glen is a fake? He is qualified to do what the authorities are stating that he can't and has the authentic (not fakes) certificates/quals to prove so. Maybe you should all watch your backs as they may target you next! He has not been sacked, only stood down as part of company policy when they are "investigating" an alleged incident(s). I hope he sues those who published these false reports!:=

[whatsupdoc]

Is he or is he not licensed to sign off on the work he did? If you heard straight form the horses mouth you must know the truth???!!! I have heard straight from the horses mouth also that there's been a complete stuff up by QF. Maybe there are a few horses mouths so one must ask who the hell is telling the truth????

[Redstone]

Where is the presumption of innocence untill Proven guilty? This trial by media and inuendo at the work place may blow up in the face of certain QE managers. Lets just wait and see what unfolds.

[whatsupdoc]

What a crap place to have to go back to work to when your name is mud and everyone thinks you're guilty. I hope the people that have created this debarcle are dealt with and there is a public apology.

[Redstone]

There are certain managers that have a reputation for "flapping their gums"

You can all see now..... who do you trust?

[nut turner]

I hope those that are in the know are correct and Smasher can screw Qantas, CASA and the media for all he can get. The association should know that just because he's not a member doesn't mean he's not licenced. Qantas has a very poor record when it comes discipline, they manage to stuff it up just about every time. Lets hope they've done it again.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Our comments are not based on whether he is a member or not and yes, we know that not all LAMEs are members.

Our comments are based on what we have been told by Qantas, CASA and the Ministry of Transport plus reporters who call us after they have spoken to the airline. The reporters then confirm that Qantas have identified this situation and sacked the individual.

A few weeks after Tim was discovered there were text msgs from him back to his crew with things like "it's all cool I'll be back at work soon".

[aveng]

"how do you know he's the bishop of Leister" - "tattoo on the back of his neck!" (monty python)

hmmm..... there's a thought, lets get all the real Lames tattooed:ok:

[whatsupdoc]

Qantas or whoever disclosed this investigation has breached confidentality. This was a conifdential matter and it should have remained that way. Whovever let the cat out of the bag has a lot to answer to. Given this, how come everybody knew about this before the meeting was held, and is positive that he has done wrong? The statement that he has been sacked is not true. The "officials" assured confidentiality and that what was discussed was not to leave the room where the meeting was held. One of these two people has stuffed up and I hope that they regret and are are sincere when they have apologise for what they have done. Prior to the media getting a hold of this, can anybody tell me when they found out about this and by whom??

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

On another similar matter and comments on what the press are told. It was interesting to note after the Avalon towing incident with OJK in December. On the evening news that night, Qantas stated that the employees were all stood down. At that stage they weren't stood down.

They were stood down at a later stage to suit the media comment. Natural justice at work - the Qantas way.

LAMEs will be hearing more regarding the Avalon towing investigation and the application of the Just policy. We will be responding to the unfair demotion of a Senior LAME who appears to have been made the scapegoat. Our response will be timed and designed to achieve his reinstatement and to ensure that no ALAEA member is ever treated in this manner again.

We will be monitoring developments regarding the alleged false LAME closely. The ALAEA has also contacted CASA regarding another person who has possibly been certifying for work that he is not qualified for.

[whatsupdoc]

You seem to be certain that he is guilty. Why then is the union supporting him with his "not guilty" (so to speak) plea?? He has the certificates and exam results to prove that he is licenced to undertake what he does. He is not a fake. You said that the ALEA has contacted CASA about another alledged "fake". Maybe you should have checked their qualifications, making certain that you were on the right path before trying to ruin somebody elses career??

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

I'll put the words into my mouth. Not you.

Don't bother arguing any further.

[Bolty McBolt]

whatsupdoc

You beat me to it.
I was going to say, I can't be the only one reading the press and this thread who is not appalled by the fact that the full name and picture was published before the allegations are proved.
It looks like Trial buy media..... Before any charges have been made. :yuk:


Our comments are based on what we have been told by Qantas, CASA and the Ministry of Transport plus reporters who call us after they have spoken to the airline.

Fed Sec would this be defined as "hear say" ??
Perhaps our association should not comment until after the facts are clear and rulings are handed down, so we do not end up with egg on our face and we (the association) maintain the semblance of professionalism.
There would appear to be much more about this story than has been published and surely it would be best to stay out until all has been made clear.

For mine the only thing that is clear is that this is Murrays legacy :D

My 2 cents

[whatsupdoc]

Hopefully we will have an outcome by today...............oops most of you have already made up your minds without exploring the truth. Goodbye and goodluck with your careers! May truth prevail.

[Redstone]

There's that word again Bolty;

For mine the only thing that is clear is that this is Murrays legacy

Legacy.......

[tjc]

Lets face it.....a certain CEO, Board and 'Yes Men' Managers have left QF in such a state that this is one of the many outcomes of their 'sustainable future' or should I say 'cost cutting' program.

QF used to be a 'bench mark' in all aspects of running an airline and set 'standards'....now we are just 'another airline'.

What will the future hold.......?

[Clipped]

Doc

The ALEA seem like a joke to me. God help me if my union treats me like this when I need some support for a situation

I would suggest that a majority of LAMEs in Oz have a great faith in the ALAEA. With the track records of aviation management in this country you should feel privileged that there is one organisation that will stand with you under difficult circumstances. Of course, unless you have a 'special' relationship with the office dwellers.

I'm unsure why you have directed your anger toward the ALAEA where it is quite clear that this sorry saga is directly the fault of the regulator, Qantas 'mismanagement' and certainly the certifier.

[dr skydrol]

Quote
The ALAEA seem like a joke to me. God help me if my union treats me like this when I need some support for a situation

The guy is not a member of the union which asks the question why not. Is he not really a Lame or is he one of those :mad: who stood in the background and then put his hand out for the spoils when everyone else did the hard yards.
Sounds like an idiot both ways.
Good bloke or not, it was his types not being in our union that could have undermined us during PIA if there was enough of them. My family says :mad: you whatever the outcome.

[domo]

Lets see how it all pans out, I know the bloke and like him, I hope he has not done what it is said that he has done. from what I heard he had all his basics and was put on a company type course which he passed. The rest is cloudy I wish him the best and hope what was said is not true.

[empire4]

to fed sec,

i would like to see some proactive response from the association and QF management after these 2 latest incidents, and highlight the holes in the system that allows such thing to take place. Why don't QF have controlled stamps for LAME's ? Why do management not take any blame ?

If this has happened twice, (which may i remind everyone is purely speculation at this point) then surely MANAGEMENT need to have a good hard look at themselves after Checking EVERYONE post tim mccormack.

maybe they should check managers certs aswell!

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Thank you for the idea regarding solutions Empire. We have a number of meetings tentatively organised over the next week to discuss this and several other maintenance issues. They are with -

Next Monday - Gavin Harris
this thu his boss - David Cox
next Mon also his boss - Lyell Strambri
also Monday some people from QA

any ideas for solutions to any maintenance problems can be posted or you can send me a pm.

[griffin one]

Once again an individual has been openly slandered by not only the company he works for, But by his said ops managers and media alike.
I hope for glens sake it is nothing more then a witch hunt and due recompence is forthwith.
Should casa not have all the information readily available of every lame who puts pen to paper, Should they not be able to punch his/her name into a data base and identify all credentials ?
To openly denegrate an individual is a travesty.
I for one will be signing my next licence renewal donald duck. Nowhere does it state i have to sign a name,Should we not all pick cartoon characters as the swiss cheese model due cost cutting is aligned and awaiting an arrow.

what a f:mad:ing circus

[the rim]

upperlobe is correct too many layers removed to cut costs .....ALAEA FED SEC you must insist that all training records go back to to the tech school and local admin offices as this will sort out the fakes from the rest ...these people knew the system before they were got rid of to save money now we have this major embarrasement out in the open .....i dont know this guy but from reading what's on here he has passed all requirements for the licence but may not have it on his QF EQ which brings me to another subject .....EQ what a waste of time and money if we as LAME's did something like this in our job questions would be asked but now you can go on line do a course [even short cut] then pass what a joke sorry to go on a bit but had to get if off my chest ....

[fordran]

Should casa not have all the information readily available of every lame who puts pen to paper, Should they not be able to punch his/her name into a data base and identify all credentials ?


Apparently they did and his name didn't come up. Hence the directions from CASA where he is named using his arn number. Have you ever considered that this guy may be guilty?

[employes perspective]

where did this guy do his type training Qantas or some outside training org.if outside then he is not qualified to sign for Qantas aircraft fullstop(and he is also trying to jump the training queue )

[domo]

[QUOTE]I for one will be signing my next licence renewal donald duck./QUOTE]

Thats fine just remember to sign all you work donald duck with the same signature as in the licence book and dont foget your licence number

[Sunfish]

I think you are all missing the point completely.

The reason there is an investigation and directions from CASA is because QANTAS DOES'NT KNOW who is qualified for what, and what they have signed for. It's cut so far that it has started losing part of its organisational memory, and that is why this situation, whatever it is, was allowed to develop.

That is the issue, QANTAS DOES NOT KNOW! Now the reason I've bolded and capitalised that statement, is that Qantas, as an airline operator, is supposed to have systems in place to guarantee the quality of it's maintenance and overhaul work, and that extends from your licences right down to the calibration of various tools, let alone traceability etc.

To put it another way, the fact that the issue, whatever it is, could potentially involve work over Two years old means that QF have no effing idea.

The obvious question CASA should be asking is "What else is there that Qantas should know, but does'nt know?"

And for good measure, the reason Ansett's AOC was pulled was not because of a crack, but because investigations determined that AN's maintenance system could not guarantee that the minimum required work was being done - and for the same reason - cut costs and fire people - lose organisational memory.

[nut turner]

EP, he didn’t jump the training queue, he did a Qantas course several years ago, why he doesn’t hold the license is anyone’s guess. As it appears he has been sacked, what will happen to him now is the big question.

[duderanch]

Not on the Casa database -Strange.
Not a member of the ALAEA - Strange again.
Not on EQ - Very Strange and he shouldn't then have been signing anyway.

Whilst I'd like to think this couldn't happen again things just don't add up. Has anyone seen the front of his payslip? Does it say AME or LAME. That will answer everything.

[airsupport]

Could someone please (politely) explain to me how this happens?

As an LAME for more than 30 years, though never with Qantas, I just cannot see how this can happen, IF these people are qualified LAMEs on certain types, then CASA should have records for those endorsements, whether or not Qantas do as well.

I have had numerous endorsements over the years, after doing courses and training both in Australia and Overseas, but in all cases CASA ultimately approved the courses and training (sometimes reluctantly) and then issue the endorsements.

Why is Qantas so different? (sensible answers PLEASE. ;) )

[empire4]

airsupport,

here are a few answer. QF has got its approved courses, as does JTP and so forth. when you do a outside course and you have obtained your licence you run off to training and HR and they make you a LAME. Now more than ever QF is runnning on trust that the little red book supplied is real, that what you say is the truth. I don't know if you still can but tim mccormack got his LAME uniform without being a LAME. I got mine whilst waiting for HR to update my details after i got my casa licence. there are apprentices runnning round with lame jumpers!! So everyone assumes you have a licence when you wear the shirt, and everyone knows that you did a company course.

Both these incidents have been from COMPANY courses. NO one acctually calls casa and asks. QF could have loads more in the same situation.

I'm not sure how your employer controls there approvals, but having done a stint overseas other EASA approved airlines use a controlled stamp. QF has NO control. And then of course you have managers who made public statements that ALL QF LAMES had BEEN checked and obviously never were. hope this answers a few Q's

[airsupport]

empire4,

Thank you for your detailed and polite ;) reply.

It MUST be a Qantas thing, as I said I never worked for Qantas but 5 other Operators over the years, and I have never heard of such things happening, OR judging someone's qualifications by what clothes they wear.

It seems to me Qantas doing it all in house is the main problem.

As I said before I have done numerous courses and OJT here and at places like Boeing and Douglas etc, but always the Operator has had no direct input into my being given an endorsement or not, other than often trying to expedite it, it has always been purely up to CASA (and their various previous entities).

airsupport.

[Clipped]

Airsupport

I'll try to keep it as simple as possible as perhaps non-LAMEs are perusing the forum topic.

You do your required dozen or so basic exams for CASA. Big bucks and alot of time.

You do a CASA approved aircraft specific type course. Inhouse or external.

You complete the required practical training logbook. Time, lots of it.

You submit it to CASA ($) and when they get around to it and are satisfied that you have met all their requirements you are then issued with a rating for that aircraft/engine type on your licence. You are now technically ready to certify accordingly.

Now comes then interesting bit. You take your new rating to QF, in this case, and the training dept looks over it and compiles a list of outstanding, bridging, airline specific, documentation procedures, human factor courses etc etc that you need to complete before you can certify for this new rating you acquired. This process can literally take months and I've heard years to complete. When completed all this 'stuff' is again checked by the training dept and QA and your rating is listed onto a computerised system, eQ.

Now you can begin certifying.

Qantas has used this ability to withhold these courses from individuals to limit the number of ratings they need to pay for. So guys spend all this time (hundreds of hours) and money ($thousands) then navigating an administration nightmare before they reach that goal. So the airline is now empowered with who can be a LAME or not, regardless of you having the CASA issued licence. Perhaps, just perhaps, some get a little impatient.

I may have missed a couple of processes in this rant. Please feel free to fill in the blanks.

[airsupport]

Clipped,

Okay, I was with you right up until "now comes the interesting bit".

It must be a Qantas thing AND problem, I have never experienced such business as you describe after "now comes the interesting bit" thankfully at ANY other Operator, the ONLY reason they would even see it normally is so we would get paid for it. ;)

airsupport.

[Socket]

Airsupport,

I think you may have misunderstood. CASA issues the Licence whether you have done a company course or you have done it off your own back through some outside entity.

That licence does not automatically grant you the right to certify for maintenance on the company aircraft you hold the licence on. The company must approve you to do that.

Most other companies have a system in place that vets prospective approval holders ( licence checks etc..) and when satisfied that you qualify AND if they feel the need for another approval holder ( $$$) they will grant the approval and usually issue you with a QA controlled stamp.

Qantas for whatever reason dont issue controlled stamps, they seem to rely on that obviously far superior and infinitly more reliable method of giving you a different jumper.

Now obviously there will be no traceabiliy problem with the jumper approval system or Qantas wouldnt have gone that way, but I cant figure out how you are supposed to use a jumper in the certification process. Maybe it has marked microfibres that adhere to the documentation when you sign.

Reading between the lines it looks like this guy has either got the licence and is not yet company approved, or has his basics and course but not the licence or approval.

Just guessing but I reckon its probably the former and he was just trying to be helpful and got shafted for it.

If so he's a silly bugger.From what I have seen and heard of QE for the last few years sticking your neck out is an invitation for a lot of these 'managers' to chop it off.

Sorry clipped you beat me to it and said it better

[airsupport]

That licence does not automatically grant you the right to certify for maintenance on the company aircraft you hold the licence on. The company must approve you to do that.

I have never experienced that in some 40 years in the Industry.

If it happens in Australia, it must be a Qantas thing.

[empire4]

Singapore, malaysia etc etc give you approval numbers and stamps. Not sure about virgin or other airlines, but EASA you never use your licence number. this is called traceablity. QF have none.

[airsupport]

empire4,

I appreciate your input and answering my questions, however I am now happy that this whole mess is definitely a Qantas thing.

The cases you are talking about now are IF you are to be certifying for aircraft owned by another operator, in the cases you quote a foreign operator, that is entirely different from certifying for aircraft owned by your employer and Aussie registered.

airsupport.

[SRM]

AIRSUPPORT,

SUGGEST YOU READ CAR 214, THIS EXPLAINS THE REASON WHY OPERATORS AND MROs MUST HAVE CONTROL OF THEIR CERTIFING STAFF.

CHEERS,

SRM

[airsupport]

Why???

CAR 214 relates to training, NOT certification. :confused:

[another superlame]

How does one get the name of smasher? I might try it myself as an ego boost wouldn't go astray

[another superlame]

Well then, enough said

[sky rocket]

Now that QF have stopped training, and only want ame's to boost their numbers, how can they stop non-qualified staff certifying for their aircraft?

[sky rocket]

I guess they could train more staff.

[SUB]

This guy had the worst attitude towards working on aircraft and talking about aviation that I have ever seen, not ever interested in work fullstop, loved to dish it out but could never take it. This is the story, he could not pass AA ever since casa changed the exam but just could not face his employees that he kept failing, so he started to certify to say yes I am now a LAME and thought he could keep trying to pass AA on the sly and then get through the system without anyone knowing. He admitted to managment that he was embarassed to his workers that he could not pass the exam.

[tjc]

I dont know of any other RPT airline that has come across so many recent problems with their Eng Dept. I am sure the problems are out there but, whether the root cause is management or floor level, the individuals in the latest hiccupps have to take most of the blame.

Is it just QF or are their others out their?

[duderanch]

Here we are again. Someone else it seems posing as a Lame and not getting paid for it. WHY WOULD YOU.:ugh: Never thought I'd see it twice in my lifetime.
Who is his manager ? Is it the same one involved as the the last guy? Does he know his own employees. Now surely after last time you would have implemented something to prevent a reoccurance. Obviously not. And now they travel down the same path of asking LAMEs on their data base to produce their license. If you are an AME posing as a Lame wouldn't you would slip through the net again. This guy did last time as to Qf he was an Ame on their listing . Are they stupid. Surely his manager must be asked how could this happen again. Theres the gate,thanks for coming . And CASA should be asked the same thing. You are the governing body what steps did you take to prevent a reoccurance?
There was a time at Qf when Quality assurance and Casa would reguarly conduct audits out in the field to ensure people had the right qualifications and were signing paperwork correctly. Can't remember when that happened last. Incompetance from CASA and QF engineering management.

[Clipped]

There was a time at Qf when Quality assurance and Casa would reguarly conduct audits out in the field

Exactly. When was the last time you saw a Rep from CASA or our very own QA on the shop floor or tarmac? Not just auditing but there to oversee that the whole operation is consistent and compliant with other ports. I could here CASA and QF management now laughing down that idea ... " Do you know how expensive that would be."

$$$ .. Whoops .. Safety First.

Are they stupid

And shortsighted.

[Bolty McBolt]

There have been many good suggestions on modern safe guards that could prevent this ever happening again , Electronic access to quals etc BUT

for mine this could have been prevented if CASA had continued issuing 5 digit License numbers when a license was achieved.

EG in NSW an "N12345" Victoria V12345 Queensland Q12345 etc etc

If you forge or make up your licence number you would stand a much greater chance of being found out short term than the current practice of using your ARN number with an "L" prefix.
Combined with a CASA web access site to confirm Quals Name and Number plus a company issued license number stamp etc LAMEs would not be burdened by this type of embarrassment again

Just a suggestion as I am merely a legacy engineer working on a legacy fleet.

[K9P]

Could this in fact be an insight into the frailties in the system since the "Engineering Rationalization" by the new age "Management Team"?

Is the patient slowly bleeding to death, as he is being patched by only a Band aid?

Are the mice lining up the cheese holes?

[The cougar]

Airsupport.
After 40 years in the game I can understand your 707 license allows you to work on all 707's worldwide. However the 767 and 747 comes with many variations and differences at the request of individual airlines. It has become excruciatingly clear that you just don't get it!

[Runaround Valve]

Back in the 1970`s, a Senior LAME forgot to renew his license. When Civil Aviation found out a month or two later, he was taken up to Technical Records and had to resign everything he signed for in that period again in red ink.
Another LAME had got made up a rubber stamp with his license number on it. Told not to use it as all license numbers had to be hand written.

[VBA Engineer]

Quote:
"That licence does not automatically grant you the right to certify for maintenance on the company aircraft you hold the licence on. The company must approve you to do that. "


I have never experienced that in some 40 years in the Industry.

If it happens in Australia, it must be a Qantas thing.



Not sure where you've been hiding then........

[airsupport]

Airsupport.
After 40 years in the game I can understand your 707 license allows you to work on all 707's worldwide. However the 767 and 747 comes with many variations and differences at the request of individual airlines. It has become excruciatingly clear that you just don't get it!

Sorry about that, I bow to your much superior knowledge. :uhoh:

Sadly I don't have, and never have had a B707 Licence, or a B747 either, however I have (among many others) both B767 and A300 Licences both with multiple engine types, and I have certified for these Aircraft types Worldwide for many years and without needing any of this extra rubbish that seems to be at Qantas and some Foreign Airlines like the QA approvals and stamps etc.

I say again, you will find that these extra approvals and stamps etc are ONLY needed IF one is to be certifying for Aircraft other than those of your Aussie Employer. An Aussie LAME can certify for his/her Employer's Aircraft that he/she is Licenced on by CASA anywhere in the World without ANY extra paperwork. Different OF COURSE if you are asked to certify for Aircraft of another Operator OR for an Aircraft that is not VH registered.

IF you still don't understand then I am truly sorry, but that is how it is. :ugh:

[airsupport]

Quote:
Quote:
"That licence does not automatically grant you the right to certify for maintenance on the company aircraft you hold the licence on. The company must approve you to do that. "


I have never experienced that in some 40 years in the Industry.

If it happens in Australia, it must be a Qantas thing.


Not sure where you've been hiding then........



Okay I forgot about Virgin Blue, never had anything to do with them either, but the same should apply, IF you work directly for Virgin Blue and you need to certify one of their Aussie registered Aircraft you should ONLY need your CASA Licence, different of course if you work for anyone else even their handling company.

[Antisplash]

Once upon a time we worked in a fairytale world where engineers sat courses and passed the exams at the end, then through a magical process they were grantaed a licence. They weren't even considered for training unless they had proven to their manager that they had the "BASICS". Then took their result certs, Basics and Type to Tech Training with a cheque, had them verified and then Tech Training saw that CASA or CAA, or whatever they were called that week, processed the paperwork and produced a licence which went back through Tech Training and then to the Manpower Planner then to you. All those checks and balances produced a LAME whom you could confidently say was licenced. The Q got involved and then there were LAME Induction Courses to contol even more the process.
Sure it is hard to get but so it should be. I mean hard not impossibly stupid.
Now we have process that "dumbs down" the LAME what with Tow Training, PIC, Wing Walking, Oxy Cart Training, Towing Audits and the list goes on and on for what are BASIC LAME tasks. All this can be attributed to the fact that the "Manager" does NOT know the business or the people, has virtually no input into the operation and relies on a couple of "strike breaking suck holes" to do it for him. Both wanna b but with absolutely no clue.
Time to get rid of the lot and start again befor the cancer spreads.

Sorry to rant and digress but I can remember how good in many aspects it used to be and can still be.

[Antisplash]

To Fed Sec

A little bird told me that CASA were in LA on a surprize visit a short time ago and that some of the "qualifications" are, to be kind, on that station were a little doubtful. CN was nowhere in sight and left it all to his releif to fend them off.
Any thoughts?

[nut turner]

To go back a little further, when Qantas training was doled out to a very select few, their was still the opportunity to become licensed through self study. It still didn't matter as CASA ran the exams thenselves so when you applied for your license they had all the results already. You got a call to come for a chat were given your license then you went away to the licensing records clerk to get it put on the system, he sent it to payroll so you could get paid and it came back to you through the manpower planner. It was an open system for anyone to see, not to mention it was regularly printed off. Everyone was proud to show off their new licence, now its all cloak and dagger stuff, no one wants to show anyone because then everyone will know what level you are and what you are being paid. Time to go back to the old ways and be open with what you've got.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Thnx for info AntiSplash.

Funny thing is I wrote to CASA last year about maint that was signed by an unqualified person. They wrote back saying that they would respond formally soon. I received that letter in October last year and no further response. No wonder we want to use the press to get these issues out there.

[hadagutfull]

bring back the old /FOR LAME on the GDP!!!

The company is into all this self audit crap now.... why not self audit qualifications as well.

[company_spy]

Fed Sec,

In a perfect world CASA would have a long hard look at the circus that is lax "base maintenance". Cox obviously wants to offshore the maintenance, but he should not be allowed to offshore quality and standards. Unfortunatly, as always, CASA is nowhere to be seen.....:rolleyes:

[Ngineer]

We have been asked to supply a copy of our CASA licence along with a copy of our EQ competencies to our manager. What a joke! Why are they asking us for a copy of their own EQ records? Seems like the regular QF audit where no ones knows whats going on.

Checking credentials like this would not have prevented this incident from occuring, especially when you are giving the documents to a new DMM who would'nt know anyone in his new section from a bar of soap. There needs to be a full investigation and report on how incidents like these can happen in our workplace, and how to prevent this.

The wheels continue to fly off the caboose as we gather more speed, with no one at the wheel.

bring back the old /FOR LAME on the GDP!!!


When the LAME grade system was introduced (approx 1996/97), many people were peeved off because they realised that it was possible to have exactly the same qualifications as someone else yet be on a lower grade. (mainly because 767 and 737 licences would only attract single licence payments, and because new LAME's would possibly be locked out of the higher grades due to quotas put in place). As a result, the "/FOR LAME" system was eventually wound-up to stop people from comparing their qualifications with others on higher grades, and thus kicking up a stink.

[BBJ flying spanner]

To my dear clipped,
Great union speech mate. I too am one LAME who wasted thousands of dollars on union fees to listen to utter rubbish from the spineless jellyfish association. One small comment is why are you wasting time on non member activities when members that are paying you to do a job are in need. The poor guy at the centre of this dispute at least has the brains not to be a member. This just shows what happens when the bean counters start running the show at QF. And what has the ALEA done about protecting the career paths of its members to avoid this sort of calamity. There was none of this in the 80s and 90s when the training school was run by LAMES. Just food for thought and good luck fellow LAMES you are going to need it.:ugh:

[Hardworker]

Question why do we all as LAME's have to allow Qantas incompetent Management access to our CASA records? A copy of our licence should be sufficient, as for EQ records, never received any training of that useless system, would not know how to or want to access QF's records, their system, they can obtain their information!

I dont see why anyone should have to allow QF information of your own records, its an open invitation to abuse. I beleive the ALAEA should ask what information QF wants and then the indiviuals can request CASA to Forward a copy of it to them and to QF, that way everyone know what information has been revealed, not an open invitation to any information.
It is apparrent that even with this information, it isnt being auditted by the training school where the staff their originally spotted the fake CASA Licence...
This problem is QF's EQ system, yet nothing is going to change, time a directive was that all LAME's Records be off EQ and held by the Training School, like it was orginally....
Its about time the ALAEA stipulated this to stop, the continued repetition almost every two moths of having to provide the same information to the incompetent management!

[Clipped]

BBJ descend from your jet and come back to Earth. That 'union' speech was some time ago, unfortunately, it seems to have pressed a couple of your buttons.

My point with regards to the ALAEA is that the current organisation is working tirelessly on a range of issues covering LAMEs all over the country and doing a pretty fine job of it. The current climate is causing the aviation sector to evaluate their operations and I'm pretty sure that LAMEs out there will be in the firing line, at least there is an organisation that will take up their cause.

Personally I'm glad I contribute to the ALAEA, as on several occasions I've been able to turn to them for assistance when left out in the cold by my beloved management and they have always been helpful. I think the majority of LAMEs feel the same, obviously your case is different. You seemed to have done well without being a member, good luck to you out there. For the majority of us, being organised has it's benefits.

[tjc]

It has been mentioned by QF management that this latest QF audit process has the support of the ALAEA.

Is this true?

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

support? not sure about that.

We are advising our members that there is no problem signing the forms. We have not said that the latest audit is the answer to the problem.

[tjc]

Thanks Fed Sec.

Maybe the process may assist, but I dont think that this is the only answer to the problem too. Then again I dont know what the solution is either.

I know for a fact that QF looses records and I know for a fact that CASA looses records.

I pity the poor LAME attempting to get on their feet, trying to defend themselves at the request of QF and CASA and loosing out through the over complicated processes, with them trying to find scapegoats.

I hope everyone out there has kept those hard copy records for themselves!

You may need them!

[Hardworker]

Which brings me back to the point of why are the LAME's required to allow management access to their information?
All QF has to do is send a copy of their records and staff names to CASA to confirm what Qualifications are there...
It seems again that nothing is going to change, not the management that allowed this to happen or the current self audit of the crap EQ system...
I am surprised CASa isnt asking for a better method, but then again management keep continuing to tell giant porkies!
I wonder what the legal point is if you refuse to allow QF to grant access to CASA's records of your details?

[duderanch]

How the hell do you stop someone from posing as a Lame who is willing to take that resposibility and not get paid for it. He did a Qf course then didn't complete his basics apparantly. WTF ! Even if we had the /for lame system he might of been picked up but only from some jealous :mad: who can't mind his own business not by Qf. So what I have to show my license, I've got nothin to hide.Its laughable to see the useless measures our management have come up with. The only one to blame here is the idiot who did this. I can't see how this could have been prevented because who would ever think not 1 but 2 people would ever do this.

And to BBJ flying spanner
Why are you taking a swipe at the union for. Oh I see by your previous posts you left in 2003. I can understand why you must hate the ALAEA- the previous exec- understandable I wasted my money back then too, definitely not now though. And as you now work contracts overseas in those great MRO establishments as you say please do dual certs on the flight controls cause they aint happening and remember to put washers under the engine mount bolts. You must be proud of their work. Oh thats right you don't see their work when your sitting in an office signing cards off for the 15 or so workers in your crew. Thanks for :mad:ing our planes.
Nice try.

[Ngineer]

It's strange that CASA has given the responsibility to investigate this to Qf, as they are the root cause of the problem. You can't fix a broken tool with a broken tool.

However, who else could investigate and find a solution? CASA maybe? I think not. I remember the days when I frequently saw CAA reps come for a walk around the jet base. Those are very distant memories.

[Short_Circuit]

I see a simple solution to the problem,
Stop the Buggery Campaign with Engineer training and actually train on types we work on.
After all, aren't all cabin crew trained on their types. Aren't Flight crew trained on their type.
Why not train engineers on type? :ugh:
A bonus is a LAME can often produce twice the work output as an AME (purely from knowledge & confidence) without the need of supervision.

[empire4]

duderanch,

please don't throw stones when you live in a glass house. You havn't been to avalon have you? Some of the worst practices i have seen are out of QF facility called avalon. you should look in your own back yard before you start slinging crap around. Have you even worked overseas? probably not.

next

The root problem here is that we have a system allowing people, 2 of them maybe more to sign work they are not qualified to do so. The management that have repeatedly assured the public that they are safe have failed again, and are still going to fail. CASA is a joke these days, only caring about bottom line on the balance sheet. the problems will continue.

[company_spy]

empire 4, one cannot associate Avalon (or Brisbane for that matter) with what was once phase check in Sydney. Unfortunatly Avalon is just another MRO, just like all the other ones out there, linked to Qantas in name only.........

[Bumpfoh]

Which brings me back to the point of why are the LAME's required to allow management access to their information?
All QF has to do is send a copy of their records and staff names to CASA to confirm what Qualifications are there...

No need for QF to gain permission from you to see your CASA personal info.

Would it not be easier for each and every LAME to set up their CASA portal, at work if you so desire, and then you can show the ball-bag manager in real time after you have logged in, all the relevent qualifications/endorsements you have against your ARN which should read the same as your hard copy licence.:ok:

That way you stay in control of what QF are able to see.

If CASA's records are up the sh1t then god help us all.:ugh:

[BrissySparkyCoit]

I am not a LAME, I am an AME and I was required to present my trade papers today. I pi$$ed myself laughing at the form I had to fill in. Along the lines of:-

"I declare that I have not certified as a LAME...."

Hmmmm... now if I were dumb enough to lie about being a LAME, what would suddenly cause my conscience to kick in and tell the truth on this pi$$ant form?

What I want to know is when are they going to crack down on the GENUINE LAME's who are clearly incompetent?

(not that I currently work with any but I have come across them!)

[Bolty McBolt]

What I want to know is when are they going to crack down on the GENUINE LAME's who are clearly incompetent?

BrissySparkyCoit

If they start sacking all the imposters, there will no one left to sign for the aircraft...

[Socket]

Hmmmm... now if I were dumb enough to lie about being a LAME, what would suddenly cause my conscience to kick in and tell the truth on this pi$$ant form?



Precisely, what's the bet CASA and QE dont want to even consider this question. I am guessing they would have to go back and verify that EVERY signature certifying for maintenance was legit. Imagine the time that would take.:sad:

I'm wondering if anyone has checked the qualifications of QE QA staff, seems to me they have been asleep at the wheel on this one.:zzz:

By the way, what was the wash up with this guy, was he sacked? did he have basics or type course?

[F.B.Eye]

Socket has hit the spot.
Check the requirements needed to hold a certificate of approval in CAO 104.0 Appendix II. 4. (g) and the read the note. Then ask management what is the percentage of LAMEs (or how many) in the QA department. What value would an audit of a sheet metal shop be if an avionic person or an academic did it? Horses for courses.

[soldier of fortune]

brissy sparky coit
nice last comment.....no go back to ur little brisbane heavymaint ****hole--
the great center of excellance ... IDIOT--- AND LOOK FWD TO BEING AN AME FOR LIFE --with that **** ass gen y attitude

[BrissySparkyCoit]

Oh dear SOF. I'd love to satisfy you by saying that my last comment is a view held by myself only. Unfortunately for you, the majority of LAME's I work with are a great deal older than I am and many hold a similar view. Why are you so angry?

Have a beer and a good sleep and I hope you feel better tomorow.

[Socket]

SOF, unfortunately all LAME's are not cut from the same cloth, some are just real good at passing exams, thats all. I know quite a few 5 cat drop kicks.

Coit, there are also a ***** load of AME's out there who think they know it all, and/or have huge anti LAME chips on their shoulders. This is especially true of a few very senior AME's. One has to ask, if they are all that good why dont they get licenced up?

Bottom line, glass houses - :=stones.

[UPPERLOBE]

Pardon my ignorance, but, WTF is a "very senior AME"?

I know they have a grading system at QF, it might look like a seniority system but how does someone with no authority over anyone become a very senior ame?

One purple stripe is still one purple stripe.

[Socket]

Pardon my ignorance, but, WTF is a "very senior AME"?



senior as in age or time in the industry.

The word 'senior' doesnt have to equate with authority.

[satmstr]

here we go AME vs LAME .....dont you forget quite quickly that you were once a AME at some stage and probably thought you knew it all as well... funny how that gets forgotten!!:mad:.

[1746]

Do not forget the basic fact -

Every LAME is only a licensed AME.

UNITED WE STAND - DIVIDED WE FALL!

Let's get back to the issue of what management had deliberately done to QE and their competence.

[Clipped]

Every LAME is only a licensed AME.

UNITED WE STAND - DIVIDED WE FALL!

Hear, hear ... Well said.

[600ft-lb]

Every LAME is only a licensed AME.

Actually...

If you were to nit pick, you don't need to be a qualified AME (you kow do you apprenticeship, gain the required skills and knowledge) to become a LAME.

There a quite a few LAME's in Qantas who never did an apprenticeship, just did 10 basics and with a bit of good timing ended up on a company course.

How about those imposters ?

Thats a bit big to sweep under the rug now isn't it.

[tjc]

There a quite a few LAME's in Qantas who never did an apprenticeship, just did 10 basics and with a bit of good timing ended up on a company course.


600ft-lb;

Big call on above. There are also alot of us ex - snorks still around that have done the hard yards!

Please dont paint us with the same brush as the imposters!

[domo]

There a quite a few LAME's in Qantas who never did an apprenticeship, just did 10 basics and with a bit of good timing ended up on a company course.


BIG call
I know 4 motor mechanics, 2 sheeties, 1 fiberglass, and a pastry chef all lames and all have served apprenticeships, not at qantas but in there trades and all got a course before you.

dont you know all promotions at qantas are merit based
dont be bitter because you did not make the cut

P.S. you need 11 basics to sit a type course

[600ft-lb]

BIG call
I know 4 motor mechanics, 2 sheeties, 1 fiberglass, and a pastry chef all lames and all have served apprenticeships, not at qantas but in there trades and all got a course before you.

dont you know all promotions at qantas are merit based
dont be bitter because you did not make the cut

P.S. you need 11 basics to sit a type course If I, as a former apprentice AME, former AME and a current LAME were to pull up stumps go to Bakers Delight for a job.. for example, I pass on my CV and point out that I was a very good apprentice, great marks at padstow, good attendance record, did well at alexandria, great reports from all the crews I was on, became a qualified AME then did 10 meaningless aircraft mechanical theory exams and 1 air legislation exam, did obscure mechanical flying device type courses gained a license from CASA, worked hard on those cold night shifts doing engine changes and unblocking ****ters do you really think would they employ me as a baker ? I don't think they would some how.

Yet a baker, from Bakers Delight can bluff his way into Qantas by padding his resume to make it seem he's somewhat mechanically capable. Fumble around for a few months until he blends in well enough (which was more then easy in the old Qantas), figure out that he has to sit 10 basics to be considered for a course, sit those exams and put his name at the end of a list, as it once was in Qantas.

Countless exmaples exist, who remembers the debacle of the South African recruitment drive.. oh there is some stories there of people that Qantas PAID for relocation and organised residency permits for in Australia yet had never touched a plane until they walked on board the QF 744 that took them to Sydney.

So who are the imposters ?

I'm not saying that all outsiders are useless and all internally trained are perfect but Qantas has hardly been one to address standards in the past for their workforce. Is it any suprise now on what is coming out in the wash at the moment.

PS
you only need to sit the 3 core exams BA BB BC and the applicable airframe/engine exams to sit a course GG GH for engine and the rest of the alphabet for airframe. AA only needs to be sat prior to applying for the license... but of course you should know that domo. got any cakes ?

[BrissySparkyCoit]

600ft-lb, this is what I was getting at. I am glad YOU kept a level head about it. Cheers

[another superlame]

Lets not forget Level 5 146 and Fokker lames

[domo]

600ft-lbs said
There a quite a few LAME's in Qantas who never did an apprenticeship, just did 10 basics and with a bit of good timing ended up on a company course.


domo said
P.S. you need 11 basics to sit a type course

600ft-lbs said
qualified AME then did 10 meaningless aircraft mechanical theory exams and 1 air legislation exam


So we agree that you need 11 basics. I believe all lames served an apprenticeship in some trade. You unblock toilets and fit engines well you cant be from sydney then.

P.S. the pastry chef was an inhouse joke and I should not have used it, sorry cj

[company_spy]

You unblock toilets and fit engines well you cant be from sydney then.

Domo, what do you think happens in Sydney?

[Nepotisim]

I think he means that if you work in SYD then the same people that unblock toilets aren't the same ones that change the engines.:cool:

That said, if you work anywhere else but SYD then you won't be doing either. :uhoh:

N

[hadagutfull]

In Sydney (Base), Cabin Interior would be unblocking toilets.....
Base Servicing crews would be changing engines....

[Bumpfoh]

That said, if you work anywhere else but SYD then you won't be doing either.:uhoh:

With the emoticon obviously a piss take! (hopefully):ok:

Having said that there are some in SYD that believe that anything remotely important aircraft maintenance wise only ever happens in SYD.:ugh:

[Short_Circuit]

Before this gets out of hand, what is being said is.
We all do what needs to be done in the ground time avail
and with equipment / spares avail.
The complaint is that there are some individuals in some stations
who do not pull their weight, do not earn their wage,
wouldn't work in an iron lung.
We all know them and the overall percentage is very low.

[Nepotisim]

Please don't take me seriously, just a bit of good natured ribbing.;)

All the guys involved in keeping them serviceable do a great job no matter where they are based. :ok::ok::ok:

[aus01]

All you poor hard done by QF Engineers. Why don’t you all just shut up and do your f&#king Jobs. No wonder QF has such a bad reputation. Just look at the endless posts of you all bickering and having shots at each other. Wake up.

[Orangputi]

Wow big comments from a 26 year old world experienced LAME (still in nappies). Perhaps you should wake and earn your stripes before making such comments as a 2 posted probationary ppruner!

[Anulus Filler]

No wonder QF has such a bad reputation. Just look at the endless posts of you all bickering and having shots at each other.

aus01



Who's bickering and having a shot at others......d!ckhe@d

[BrissySparkyCoit]

Aus01. Thankyou for your constructive comments. Good to see you contributing meaningful discussion. Now please troll elsewhere.

[Mr.Buzzy]

Hmmmm PERuNe?.........

bbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Hardworker]

We all know them and the overall percentage is very low

It has actually increased, 12 Operations Managers...
It long overdue, time a managerial shake up, send the RH DH TD KM GH of this world somewhere else, the mis management and loss in real dollars figures is ridiculous!
The A380 introduction a joke, the A330 licence coverage an even bigger one....but like all LAME's we get on with trying to keep the fleet safe - no matter how dangerous some of the aircraft return from overseas maintenance, with major defects, we just fix it all and move on. No recognition, no thanks, just management ducking for cover...
QF engineering is a far cry from what it was and what it was capable of doing, now its a barest of all operations, with limited resources and capabilities

[Ngineer]

It has actually increased, 12 Operations Managers...


Thats just great!! They cut down on manpower and overtime, then employ more managers. When will these guys ever learn. Too many cooks spoil the broth (especially when they cant cook). Its time for them all to go, and let us get back to the basics. Things are not improving.

The A380 introduction a joke

This is old history re-visited. We tried this with the 744 crews and it didnt work. We tried to tell them the A380 crews would not work and they would not listen. This is just empire building, incompetance and un-accountability. People too proud to admit mistakes and move on. Unfortunately later, rather than sooner, things will change.

[Engineer_aus]

Just remember the Part Timers. QF Syd will all be part timers soon. you watch. I am glad nothing has changed since I left many moons ago!

[Hempy]

Buzzy unless you have something worthwhile to contribute piss off, troll (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=troll)

D & G Reporting Points: Airline and RPT issues in Australia and enZed.

[Bolty McBolt]

Big thread drift...

We tried this with the 744 crews and it didn’t work

I fail to see the similarity between the introduction of the 744 and the A380.
The 744 crews were started to maintain continuity of recurrent defects while the fleet was small. It was about learning to trouble shoot the digital disaster...
The 744 crew worked with and along side the other servicing crews until 90% of servicing crews had their own coverage and the 744 crews were dispersed.
Every one was brought up to speed the "old way", by passing on what we have learned so that we save our peers making the same time wasting mistakes. These days its called CRM and needs to be taught but that is another thread all together.

The A380 introduction is a new aircraft, new system of maintenance, new e-log, e-maintenance (marlin etc)and not 1 person outside the A380 bubble has been shown yet alone trained in any of the new systems.

The (legacy) base maint engineers have been so fire walled away from the introduction of the A380 that if the "biosphere" that is hangar 96 were to need backup due to any shortage of skills or manpower as the fleet expands, no one would be able to even assist as it requires a 14 day Gen Fam course to even look at the behemoth yet alone come up to speed on the system of maint.

Will be interesting to see what happens as Base and Team A380 compete for the same manpower in what is left in the job market of available engineers.
Both want an extra 50 heads rather than pool their manpower :}
:ugh:
It will be interesting to see which clown wins the tug-of-war

[Mr.Buzzy]

Sure thing Hempy!

Interestingly, I note your contribution to this thread has been nil. (Aside, of course, from telling me to pi55 off.)

Anyhoooo

I've had my say, the individual concerned has been dealt with appropriately.

As I said, he should not have been given a second chance when "caught out" during his apprenticeship. The other eight pages of this thread are about trying to lay blame with QF management and to somehow make this clown out to be the victim.

Do the crime (twice) pay the time and move on. Don't waste 8 pages blaming "the system"

Face it, a crook will deceive ANY system, so stop your bleating and worry about why your jobs are disappearing around your ears!

bbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzz.NTA.bbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Engineer_aus]

I have finally read the entire thread. "Smasher" was a very interesting engineer. He had done all his basic's, plus a JTP course, and was trying to do AA back in 2002 when I had worked with him. He really didnt like to work and hated snorks. He also thought he was above everyone else. I wonder how many more AME's are going to be caught out. Time will tell. But with Management as they were back in 2002 when I left nothing has changed and are trying to divide that huge wedge down the middle. I remember back then when they were trying to get the Airbus and Boeing crews going. I just feel for the poor apprentices that really have no chance at all. I am glad I got out of QF and enjoy my time in GA.

[Bumpfoh]

Sorry to be a pedant old son but he definitely did a QF B767 course.

[Engineer_aus]

Thats cool, I just remember him saying that he had done the JTP.

[company_spy]

Sorry to be a pedant old son but he definitely did a QF B767 course.

He had also done a JTP 767 Eng/Af l. Don't know which was done first.

[BrissySparkyCoit]

I don't quite understand his logic. Why would he do both? If he did the QF course first, then he would have to be a complete fool to then sit a JTP course. If he sat the JTP course first, why would QF waste $$ (we all know what tightar$es QF are), when all he would need is minimal training to bring him up to speed on QF specifics?

[nut turner]

I worked with him when he did his QF course and he never mentioned at any time he had done a JTP course.:confused:

Maybe its more tall tales.

[Redstone]

Who knows, but as claimed before I have also spoken to people who were on the company course he did and people who claim he was sitting the 767 at JTP in the same class as them.

[ktmac]

Whats the latest with this chap? has he been charged yet?

[mahatmacoat]

No he has not been charged. Qantas haven't reported him to the authorities, they have just promoted him to Group General Manager of Quality after JV announced his retirement yesterday.

[Long Bay Mauler]

He is probably busy helping security draw up its new "Crime" document.

Funny,but if management hadnt taken its eye of the ball by actively "buggering" its engineering staff,and had taken a sensible approach to reorganisng engineering and maintaining training records,then we may not have seen these 2 idjits.

[nuked]

Maybe if CASA would allow a company to send over a LAME's licence number and have them confirm his licence might help a great deal, however they dont and wont do that due to "privacy issues".

Anybody with a scanner, PC, printer and time on their hands can easily fake a licence, when they bring in Photo licences and allow cross referencing through CASA then things will change.

Blaming management is one thing, but how many people actually knew and worked with these fake's, and why didn't they know he was full of it. Hell after 30 years in the industry I knew what courses all my mates were doing, what they had done and where they stood, to have any one of them suddenly announce that they were a LAME would have surprised everybody. Where was the vigilance on the Hanger floor? as opposed to the Managers sitting inside Aircon offices who wouldn't know the guy from a bar of soap.

Just a though for what it's worth

[Redstone]

Blaming management is one thing, but how many people actually knew and worked with these fake's, and why didn't they know he was full of it. Hell after 30 years in the industry I knew what courses all my mates were doing, what they had done and where they stood, to have any one of them suddenly announce that they were a LAME would have surprised everybody. Where was the vigilance on the Hanger floor?

Nuked, I think you are missing the point. The fact is both of the gentlemen in question most definately sat Qantas company type courses. One a 744 the other a 767. Most fellow workers would then reasonably expect that at some time after the completion of said course that the chap would eventually submit required SOE, have initial licence issued, sit the company LAME induction course and then be in the system able to certify.

The argument here is that under the "brave new world" management team, the checks and balances of yesteryear were obviously not followed. For instance, the boss would have sighted your basics results as they were completed and checked you off on the list. Once ALL required basics completed then, and only then, were you considered for a type course but subject to the "show me your soe book" test. (I know a certain manager in Sydney lamented years ago because he had so many guys that he had put on course with outstanding credits, and because they had F.A. soe when put into the school, he was still low on coverege.) If soe not around 75%, forget it, next in line......

Now, the eQ system takes over and managers rely very heavily on it, even though there probably less control on info stored within.

[tjc]

Now, the eQ system takes over and managers rely very heavily on it, even though there probably less control on info stored within

They, (you know who they are), rely on eQ because they have no idea what it takes to become a LAME.

Our non-technical, uni degreed, overnight managers have never had an idea of what it means to be a LAME.

Not taking it all away from the fakes, but - Hence where we are now!

[deadweight]

There is a difference between a Fake and Incompetance, some of you need to go and look it up.:D

If he hasnt been charged, then id say it would be time for some serious head hunting........:ouch:

Whats the Unions stance on this now.....i hear it has changed.:ooh:

[Long Bay Mauler]

Apparently one of the West Coast brothers has been identified by management as a possible FLAME.

Something to do with basics and courses being completed in the incorrect order.....

[BrissySparkyCoit]

It is possible to sit a type course without completing all basics. You need a letter of dispensation from CASA. To obtain this, you must have a reasonable length of time an AME, have completed most of your basics and provide a copy of your trade course results (statement of attainment from TAFE as I recall).

You cannot become a LAME however, until you have completed the basics.

[nut turner]

Sitting a license course without all your basics is not a new thing. I personally know of one engineer who did a company 747 A/F course with only half his basics because Qantas's records at the time showed him haveing all his basics. The only problem he had was waiting to finish his basics before he could hold his licence. (This was quite a few years ago, but obviously Qantas's records are still in poor condition)

[mutorcs]

there is an engineer in cns who sat a B747 classic back in the early 90's but didnt pick up the licence for 10 yrs.He told the then manager he had all his basics but didnt.At least he didnt get his licence till he passed his basics

[Long Bay Mauler]

The only problem with that scenario is that CASA dont generally have enough surveyors with a) time on type b) time in that group e.g. 20/21 and c) everything is now being centralized in Canberra.

But I do like the thinking.At least doing the PCT oral exams at Qantas now,you are quizzed by people with knowledge,time on type,and thats excluding the lead quizzer.So far all my PCT instructors have been guys that I respect as LAMEs.

[Bumpfoh]

So far all my PCT instructors have been guys that I respect as LAMEs.

By this bugs I take it you have had some "recent" training.

Good luck to you as we seem to see 4 fifths of stuff all in our port due to our incredibly stingy p1ss poor excuse for management.:ugh:

[splashman]

A great debate, but.....

He would of known he was not licenced, but, from this forum, acted as he was

Did he take to salary as if he was?

If he certified and was not licenced to, got caught, bad luck.. A strong deterent to others who may think they can

[Kristi Mroczkowski]

I know how long ago this was but I found out last night that this is or was until I kicked him out on Sunday my partner. I would like to know if there is somewhere I can get information on this case. Was he allowed to work as an engineer again? Because he is. Thanks in advance

[t_cas]

I know how long ago this was but I found out last night that this is or was until I kicked him out on Sunday my partner. I would like to know if there is somewhere I can get information on this case. Was he allowed to work as an engineer again? Because he is. Thanks in advance

a scorned partner seeking revenge or damage?

[Xeptu]

This comes as no surprise, I remember putting that very question to the chief pilot 20 years ago. In the early years everything went into the licence, then around the early 90"s it went to everything goes into the logbook, All endorsements are command endorsements today, CASA wouldn't necessarily know you're a Captain. Add to that mergers, takeovers and rapid expansion and you suddenly have a lot of new faces you have never met. So I put it to the chief, how do "you" actually know I hold an ATPL, no-one has ever asked to see it. He said that's not even funny. No it's not but it could happen. 20 years on and that's still the case, not even casa wants to see it on a ramp check,

[Australopithecus]

This comes as no surprise, I remember putting that very question to the chief pilot 20 years ago. In the early years everything went into the licence, then around the early 90"s it went to everything goes into the logbook, All endorsements are command endorsements today, CASA wouldn't necessarily know you're a Captain. Add to that mergers, takeovers and rapid expansion and you suddenly have a lot of new faces you have never met. So I put it to the chief, how do "you" actually know I hold an ATPL, no-one has ever asked to see it. He said that's not even funny. No it's not but it could happen. 20 years on and that's still the case, not even casa wants to see it on a ramp check,

Really? My licence gets scrutinised (EVERY page, including all the blank ones) has to be in order). This happens at every encounter with the training department, so four or five times yearly. Twice on consecutive days in the sim.

[Tom Sawyer]

I know how long ago this was but I found out last night that this is or was until I kicked him out on Sunday my partner. I would like to know if there is somewhere I can get information on this case. Was he allowed to work as an engineer again? Because he is. Thanks in advance

He maybe have been working in an unlicensed or non-company approval holder position which would probably be acceptable in the employers eyes. Up to them really if they know his history and maybe they discussed it with CASA. If however it was a Licensed position it should raise a few questions and further investigation....assuming of course he has not completed Licence modules and been issued with a Licence in the meantime. Post the previous events, was he legally banned or "black listed" by CASA somehow from working in the industry or holding a licence?

Not defending him and I don't know any of the names at the start of the thread, but the above has to be factored into any potential scenario.

[MELKBQF]

He maybe have been working in an unlicensed or non-company approval holder position which would probably be acceptable in the employers eyes. Up to them really if they know his history and maybe they discussed it with CASA. If however it was a Licensed position it should raise a few questions and further investigation....assuming of course he has not completed Licence modules and been issued with a Licence in the meantime. Post the previous events, was he legally banned or "black listed" by CASA somehow from working in the industry or holding a licence?

Not defending him and I don't know any of the names at the start of the thread, but the above has to be factored into any potential scenario.

I wouldn't have thought he would have been able to obtain an ASIC to allow him to work in the industry with his criminal record.

[havick]

I wouldn't have thought he would have been able to obtain an ASIC to allow him to work in the industry with his criminal record.

There are many people with criminal records that have ASICS. They’re approved on case by case basis obviously.

[Xeptu]

Really? My licence gets scrutinised (EVERY page, including all the blank ones) has to be in order). This happens at every encounter with the training department, so four or five times yearly. Twice on consecutive days in the sim.

That's a lot of times. Perhaps because they can't believe you hold one. :)

[Australopithecus]

Is that why they always give a half shake of the head and a surprised “Huh!”, followed by a hushed phone call to someone in SYD?

[aroa]

I found aFale Lame once.. and he worked for CAs?A. Not only looneys in Non Aviation House but phoneys as well

[SRM]

There is a very simple solution to this problem.
Sit down with your manager and log in to the CASA Portal and all will be revealed.

When the Manager is happy with the results he then issues with a Company Approval and stamp.

[Chronic Snoozer]

There are many people with criminal records that have ASICS. They’re approved on case by case basis obviously.

Aren't ASICs mandatory for bikie club membership these days?