When will the US start their offensive?

[Kaptin M]

CNN and BBC contribute the vast majority of their (repetitve) programmes to the "Hunt for bin Laden", yet in spite of the constant bombarding I haven't heard a date for the commencement of the offensive (the waiting can often be just as torturous as the battle - ask Cathay management!). So it came as a surprise when one of the ground staff in Japan told me that all Hell was going to be unleashed on the 14th of October :eek:
...where did he get that from???
"In the newspaper", I was told.
Sure enough the headlines of one of Japan's major dailys (printed in Kanji) announced that is was October 17, yet it hasn't appeared in any of the English version newspapers.

Has anyone else heard, read, or seen a date mentioned?

[411A]

Pity the Japanese crystal ball was not as accurate in 1941.
But hey, it does indeed take awhile to move the bits necessary for an offensive as big as I suspect this one will be.

[Icarus]

What do you mean by when? The U.S. have always been offensive; that is, afterall, the basis for why this atrocity occured! :mad:

Don’t for a minute kid yourself that the US government means it when they declare a ‘War against Terrorism’; that will be proven to be nothing more than a shower of Political Rhetoric.
They want one man and one man only; with or without proof; and they have covered themselves in case they are wrong!
Once they have achieved that goal and turned the world upside down and shaken it about nothing else will happen.

ETA will still blow up cars in Madrid.
The IRA will still kill innocent civilians.
The Colombians will still kidnap and mutilate oil workers.
AbouSaif will still kidnap and behead Filipinos.
And the rest…

The US are once again showing disregard to and ignorance of the probable repercussions on many more people than those that so tragically died on 11 September.
I have watched the TV, read the newspapers, read this web-site every day; and the US still appears to have learned nothing and is once again creating an emotional rollercoaster that is soon going to become unstoppable with devastating results for a large part of the world.

They have again proved their inability to accept any criticism and met it with the usual ‘Bull in a China Shop’ attitude. I have not seen one post from a US citizen who appears able to look at what has happened with an open mind and heart.
Until the masses of the US begin to look at and understand and appreciate the fact that there is a big wide world outside its borders nothing is ever going to change!

[ 23 September 2001: Message edited by: Icarus ]

[ 23 September 2001: Message edited by: Icarus ]

[The Guvnor]

According to that world famous organ of truth, integrity and probity The News of the World the SAS have already located bin Laden in Afghanistan. Its sister paper, The Sunday Times, says that SAS troops have already been in a contact with Taliban militia; which if true would represent a disaster for the SAS who tend to prefer to keep things as quiet as possible so that no one knows they are there!:

SAS troops clash with Taliban unit deep inside Afghanistan

James Clark, Tony Allen-Mills and Stephen Grey, Washington

SAS troops in Afghanistan have been fired upon by Taliban soldiers in the first clash of the campaign against global terrorism.

Nobody was hurt, military sources said, adding that the gunfire had been "more symbolic than directed". They suggested that
the small SAS team had "spooked" Taliban soldiers near Kabul, who had fired indiscriminately before fleeing.

However, the incident marks an escalation in what has so far been only an intelligence war. The Taliban are in a high state of
alert for coalition forces waiting to enter their country.

It is rare for Ministry of Defence insiders to confirm that their forces have been involved in skirmishes, but a source close to
the SAS said there had been a clash late on Friday.

SAS troopers, together with members of MI6 and the CIA, are working with the anti-Taliban Northern Alliance in the search for Osama Bin Laden, the Saudi-born millionaire believed to have masterminded the suicide hijacker attacks on America 12 days
ago in which 6,818 are feared to have died.

They are seeking intelligence about Bin Laden's whereabouts, the location of mines, routes he might take out of the country
and the help of guides for later operations.

Unlike their American counterparts, SAS troopers specialise in long-term operations behind enemy lines, making them ideal for
intelligence-gathering missions in Afghanistan.

The soldiers involved in the clash with the Taliban were believed to be from a four-man unit that had crossed the border, possibly
from Tajikistan.

The SAS men on the ground are communicating with commanders via RAF Nimrods from the secretive 51 Squadron, using state-of-the-art "squirt" radios to transmit large amounts of
data in seconds, helping avoid either interception or pin-pointing
by the enemy.

American forces are also on the move. Advance units of two United States army divisions are on the Afghan border preparing for strikes against the Taliban regime.

Units of the 82nd Airborne and 101st Air Assault Divisions arrived at bases in Pakistan, near the border towns of Quetta
and Peshawar, as a huge build- up of ships, aircraft and troops ordered to the region by President George W Bush continued. A Pentagon official declared that the military was ready to respond "the second the president pushes the button".

US military aircraft carrying reconnaissance equipment landed yesterday at a base near Tashkent, the capital of Uzbekistan. It
also emerged that US attack helicopters are still stationed inside Uzbekistan after recent joint military exercises. Northern
Alliance rebels were reported to be advancing towards Mazar-i-Sharif, a possible bridgehead into Afghanistan for American forces.

The coalition operation inside Afghanistan coincided with intelligence reports that any further terrorist action would be radically different from the suicide hijackings that led to three passenger planes being crashed into the World Trade Center in New York and the Pentagon. "They've been there and done
that," said one US government adviser. "The real fear now is chemical."

It was revealed last night that crop-spraying planes had been grounded in America after police found evidence at a suspected terrorist hideout suggesting that plans were being made to disperse biological or chemical agents. In Britain, the security services believe the main threat could be the release of poisons into the air or the contamination of water.

Proposals for emergency anti-terrorist legislation were presented to Tony Blair yesterday amid pressure from opposition MPs and some ministers for an early recall of
parliament.

Ministers and MI5 officials are concerned that any crackdown on terrorist suspects could fall foul of human rights legislation.
They are pressing for a new "judge-proof" law to be rushed through parliament.

David Blunkett, the home secretary, who has secured agreement for a European Union-wide arrest warrant and a faster extradition process, wants stronger powers to freeze or
confiscate terrorist assets.

American officials, who offered a $5m reward and protection for anyone providing information about the terrorist attacks, said yesterday that the threat of further assaults would not divert them from hitting Bin Laden's Afghan allies hard. "They are about to see what the wrath of God feels like," said one intelligence source.

Military tension was heightened by reports in Pakistan that an unidentified reconnaissance drone had been shot down over Afghanistan. If the aircraft was American, the incident would
indicate that US forces have launched scouting missions.

The crisis was complicated by the arrival of Pope John Paul II in the Kazakh capital of Astana on a long-planned visit. Kazakhstan is close enough to Afghanistan for the Pope's
security to be a concern should hostilities break out.

At the presidential retreat in Camp David, Bush held a "council of war" with senior advisers. He was expected to sign an executive order identifying terrorist groups and placing a freeze on their assets.

Today he will preside over a flag-raising ceremony when the Stars and Stripes will formally be hoisted back to full mast,
signalling the end of official mourning for the victims of the attacks on September 11.

US officials said the military campaign would fall into two phases: an opening salvo of missiles and aerial bombing restricted to targets inside Afghanistan, followed by a potentially protracted ground campaign spearheaded by American and British special forces.

Early targets are expected to include the airport at Kabul, communications towers and power supplies. Terrorist targets in other countries might be considered once all US forces heading for the region are in place, the sources said.

In the latest deployments, the US amphibious ship Essex left the Sasebo naval base in Japan, followed by the nuclear-powered submarine, Bremerton. The two vessels departed a day after the USS Kitty Hawk's aircraft carrier battle group left its home port near Tokyo. More than 100 warplanes,
among them B-1 and B-52 bombers, are also believed to be ready to begin flying missions.

Concern that Saudi Arabia was reluctant to let American commanders run an air assault from the Prince Sultan airbase near Riyadh receded when the US said its operation was "up and running".

At home, Americans struggled to resume normal lives.

A full programme of American football games was under way, with F-15 fighters ready to enforce no-fly zones over stadiums. Documents left behind by the hijackers had indicated some kind of follow-up action on September 22 - yesterday. The sense of unease was heightened by last week's economic free-fall on Wall Street, which suffered the worst one-week losses since the Depression of the 1930s.

Israeli tanks entered a Palestinian-controlled part of the Gaza
Strip last night and exchanged fire with Palestinian gunmen, a Palestinian official said.

The exchange was apparently in response to mortar bombs fired at a nearby Israeli settlement, and is the most serious breach of
the Middle East ceasefire insisted upon by Bush in the wake of the terrorist attacks.

Finally, a quote from that truly great statesman, Benjamin Franklin, who said: "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor justice." At this time the governments in the UK and US are intending to impose draconian new measures which, here at least, will create an effective police state. We let them do so at our own peril.

[ 23 September 2001: Message edited by: The Guvnor ]

[FFFlyer]

'Create an effective police state'. Ha ha. Ever lived in one? If so you wouldn't make statments like that.

[The Guvnor]

Yes I have, actually - South Africa.

[SPIT]

FFFLYER
I would say you were shot down good style??
WATCH YOUR SIX :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :mad:

[Narada]

Kaptin M - it is probably based on speculation rather than fact. It sounds reasonable based on Desert Storm experience and the phase of the moon. This kind of speculation has been around a while from before the recent terrorist attacks.

[VP8]

We on the civilian side have no need to know when any offensive if any will start.

I had a good friend killed when the BBC said that the Para's were going into Goose Green..

There was also a couple of slip ups from our glorious press boys in the Gulf...

Let the Military side alone....and the armchair warriors keep stuum


VP8 :mad:

[ 23 September 2001: Message edited by: VP8 ]

[Self Loading Freight]

The US press have as good as said they won't be reporting anything that the military doesn't want them to, and will be reporting anything that the military want them to -- and the military has said that they will lie. I don't know what's going on in the UK, but I doubt it'll be much different. Certain newspapers have always faithfully regurgitated military and security service lines, regardless of truth... and frankly, the idea that *anything* special forces are up to being reported accurately at the moment is risible. That story will have been printed because the MoD wanted it to be printed, not because of any correlation with actual events.

For the duration, I'll be keeping an eye on the non-combatant nations' media over the jolly old Web. I appreciate the need for secrecy and misdirection but I don't like being lied to, for even the best of reasons.

R

[Chris Lock]

Icarus,
I can't actually believe that you could think that anyone in the U.S. should have an open heart and mind right now!! Are we to say
"Yeah, I guess we have been rather offensive and have poking around in other peoples business for far too long, I can understand why people hate us so much, we really did have it coming"' I hope that's not what you
are getting at becuase its not gonna happen,
especially right now!!
This is about as open minded as you are going
to get: Rich, powerful countries have been opressing poorer countries and building their
riches on the backs of the impovrished since the beginning of time. Does that make it right? No. But should we accept someone coming into our country and killing 5000 civilians because we are one of these countries? No.
This will not change anything, it has galvanized americans even more. Bad move.
Why should we give a s**t about anyone who
perpetrates the kind of spineless actions that we saw in New York?
And what exactly should we learn from this?
I'll tell you what we should learn, this time unleash enough fury over there to make em think twice about doing it again. I never have been a big fan of military action, I can't think of a time in my life when I could say with a clear conscious, "yeah it was right for us to go in there and bomb them". I always thought that there should be a better way. But not this time. You know how open my heart is going to be if I see 5000 of "them" toasted? Not very.

[New Bloke]

In answer to the original question, before next Thursday.

You see if I'm right.

[chiglet]

Hells Tits,
What an awful load of rhetorical twaddle.
"The SAS were involved in a firefight".
"Let's go and toast 5000 of them"
SAS in the area? Quite probably...shooting at the Talaban....eeerrrrm I don't think so
Toast 5000 of them. Who? Talaban? Refugees? The Afgans?
America will never, repeat, NEVER SUCCESSFULLY INVADE AFGANISTAN.
If you want valid reasons, look at European history books.
Yes I AM sorry for the [pointless] deaths on Sept11, BUT how do you bomb a "Stone Age Country" BACK to the stone age, just to get "revenge"?
we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy

[brain fade]

When will the US start its offensive? Answer:Never.
Why? firstly its unwinnable without huge loss of life.
Also what would be the military objective apart from getting Bin Laden. It would be like the British trying to sort out Northern Ireland by bombing or invading it. Not a realistic option. This will be a spooks war with occasional Special Forces involvement, I dont see front line troops involved in any significant amount. When the yanks get Bin Laden it will be alive via some sort of diplomatic activity or dead courtesy of the SAS or similar. Another reason that they wont invade is that it has dawned on them that Bin Liner is not actually the disease but merely one of the symptoms. The real problem is that the former inhabitants of what is now Israel have never gotten over being asked to leave their own country. And unpalatable, unmentionable and inconceivable as it may seem to the Israelis, they are RIGHT to be annoyed about it. As the terrorist are unstoppable, which unfortunately is a truism, the Americans ought to stir things up as little as possible. Then the rest of us can hopefully get on with living our lives in peace while diplmatic pressure is applied to make Israel behave in a more reasonable manner towards the former (ie before 1948) inhabitants of what is now called Israel and which used to be known as Palestine.

[RATBOY]

Lots of good points on this thread. The question of what the US objective should be has been answered several times, and it is not to bomb Afganistan back into the stone age, they've already absorbed enough superpower s*&t.

I know it will not make a difference to those who have already decided the US is the big bad boogieman but have a good look at the food going into Pakistan and Afganistan to feed people, a lot of it has stars and stripes on it. That is the real way you do things over the long term. You talk to people, learn about them, let them learn about you, live with them if at all possible and if you can not you build a big fence and agree to stay on your own side. People in the US know that the average Afgan just wants to be left alone to live his life like anyone in New York, London, Peking, Bombay or anyplace else, and there is little future in turning the place into a glowing hole, which the US could do at modest cost many times over whenever desired.

[chiglet]

Ratboy
The UN, I will repeat that, THE UNITED NATIONS are supplying aid to Afganistan.
yes, YES, YESthe "US" are among the "prime suppliers", BUT a Hell of a lot of "poorer" countries are giving Aid as well.
BUT, If the Talaban refuse to import food and medicines for the people, and then state in the Mosques that the 'Great Satan' is to blame for their ills while at the same time exporting Heroin to Europe AND America, what does one do? :confused:
I know that this is not a "proper" reply, but I hope that I have raised some valid questions
we aim to please, it keeps the cleanershappy

[Flap 5]

I have been amazed by the hysterical talk of 'carpet bombing', etc. in the media. Clearly that would never work. However there is negligible up to date intelligence on Afghanistan, therefore it is clear that the SAS would be used for reconnaissance.

This is what they are best at and would provide the essential information to carry out surgical strikes. Without such reconnaissance nothing can be done and it would take several weeks to gather the required information.

The civilised world is in no rush to get at the terrorists - except for the fact that they could commit some other awful act. They have now had three weeks to gather information so it will not be long now before action is taken.