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zerotohero
5th Feb 2009, 09:56
My god,,, 5 times in the past few weeks now I have had some tit say to me are you going to train as a Pilot then??

the most recent was a newly qualified cabin crew sat in the jumpseat after I did the take off out of Germany on my Sector flying a Boeing 737-800!

I can understand some general folk still thinking the Captain flys and the First Officer cleans his glass's for him,,,, but come on, our own Cabin Crew not knowing that there are two qualified pilots up front! what the hell do they teach them on there course should one of us become incapassitatesd? if its the F/O your fine if the Captain dies your going to crash cos the other guy is just sat looking out the windown in a pilots uniform for fun!

Rant over!

Lon More
5th Feb 2009, 10:01
unfortunately that's pretty much what happenedd in Staines (http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19720618-0) about 30 years ago.

Thank God things have changed

gingernut
5th Feb 2009, 10:13
So, do you actually fly the plane?

I always thought the captain did that bit.

Sailor Vee
5th Feb 2009, 10:15
Perhaps a course in communicating in written english would be better?

oldbeefer
5th Feb 2009, 10:35
Sailor Vee - you beat me to it. Standards are falling, but exam successes are rising - bizarre.

ShyTorque
5th Feb 2009, 10:35
My god,,, 5 times in the past few weeks now I have had some tit say to me are you going to train as a Pilot then??

And you did say you were flying at the time? :p

Captain Stable
5th Feb 2009, 10:38
My God... 5 times in the past few weeks now I have had some tit say to me, "Are you going to train as a Pilot then??"

The most recent was a newly qualified cabin crew sat in the jumpseat after I did the take off out of Germany on my sector flying a Boeing 737-800!

I can understand some general folk still thinking the Captain flies and the First Officer cleans his glasses for him... but come on, our own Cabin Crew not knowing that there are two qualified pilots up front! What the hell do they teach them on their course should one of us become incapacitated? If its the F/O, you're fine. If the Captain dies, you're going to crash, ' cos the other guy is just sat looking out the window in a pilots uniform for fun!

You sound like the most complicated machinery you should be flying is FlightSim. If you take as little care as a pilot as you do in simple communication on a Professional Pilot's website, then I'm not surprised that your own Cabin Crew don't realise you're a qualified professional yourself.

Squeegee Longtail
5th Feb 2009, 10:42
Why not answer with an equally stupid question to them? "Are you going to train as a waitress some day?" should do it.

Scrubbed
5th Feb 2009, 11:16
My God... five (anything under 10 should be a word) times in the past few weeks now I have had some tit say to me, "Are you going to train as a Pilot, then??"

The most recent (new paragraph - the most recent what? Tit?) was a newly-qualified cabin crew sitting in the jumpseat after I performed (One does not 'do' a take-off, one performs a take-off or carries it out. One 'does' a sh!t.) the take off out of Germany on my sector flying a Boeing 737-800!

I can understand some general folk still thinking the Captain flies and the First Officer cleans his glasses for him... but come on, our own Cabin Crew not knowing that there are two qualified pilots up front! What the hell do they teach them on their course, should one of us become incapacitated? If it's the F/O, you're fine. If the Captain dies, you're going to crash, ' cos the other guy is just sitting looking out the window in a pilot's uniform for fun!

Get it right... :rolleyes:

a Professional Pilots' website

Don't forget the all-important koalifier: "Rumour."

Captain Stable
5th Feb 2009, 11:18
I agree with all your points, Scrubbed - I was trying to be generous to the guy.

corsair
5th Feb 2009, 11:47
Seeing as we're in spelling pedant mode. I would like to point out to Lon More that there is only one d in happened. It's also customary to use upper case as the beginning of a sentence and end with a full stop.

Gingernut needs to realise that a 'plane' is a Carpenters tool and it doesn't fly very well.

Sorry guys, just being michevious:ok:

But at the risk of being spell checked and grammarised (yes, I know. I just made that word up.) I'm not surprised at zerotohero's experience. You can never underestimate some people's ignorance of aviation.

Chesty Morgan
5th Feb 2009, 11:58
I always thought that you can write numbers using either the relevant digit or in word format as long as you consistently use the same one throughout the document.

Rainboe
5th Feb 2009, 12:49
Threads like this warm my heart, chaps! We must keep the grammar standard flying high. Whilst one does accept and sympathise with the OPs remarks, we cannot let our standards slip! Foreigners now speak and write English better'n wot we do!

under_exposed
5th Feb 2009, 13:05
corsair,

plane v.t. glide in aeroplane.- n. wing of aeroplane;aeroplane.

From the Oxford dictionary.

chuks
5th Feb 2009, 13:22
You tell of someone asking this question after you had done a takeoff. Did they ask, though, because of a previous landing?

Just saying...

Scrubbed
5th Feb 2009, 13:32
Threads like this warm my heart, chaps! We must keep the grammar standard flying high.

You've done a lot of slamming over the years, never been tempted to take a swing over spelling, Razz?

traveler
5th Feb 2009, 15:12
Jeezz spelling nazis ... :D ... y'all feel better now ?

Captain Stable
5th Feb 2009, 15:18
traveller - not just spelling.

Correct spelling, grammar, and punctuation all assist in getting the message across clearly. If people want to be taken seriously as educated, intelligent professionals then they need to communicate accordingly, and not in the manner of some chav 13-year old.

How you communicate affects how your words are received. Affect sloppiness in communication and you will be seen as sloppy - as one who doesn't give a damn about how he is seen and listened to.

Furthermore, it takes no more effort to use correct grammar, punctuation and spelling than it does incorrect.

traveler
5th Feb 2009, 15:28
I disagree with your last statement.
But you are probably speaking about how much effort either is for you.

Captain Stable
5th Feb 2009, 15:49
I'm glad you agree with the rest of my post - thanks! :)

traveler
5th Feb 2009, 16:04
I do.
The interaction the initial poster describes wasn't in writing.
He may look/carry the part.

Cheers.
On to more important things.

alwayzinit
5th Feb 2009, 17:08
Sorry to quibble but with all the spelling pedants about the important point about a hostie with a talking tit got completely missed:E...............







I'll get my coat!

Alwayz

Georgeablelovehowindia
5th Feb 2009, 17:39
Mrs G. used to fly with a first officer who knew his station in life. He altered his name badge to "And You."

"What would you like to drink, Captain?"
"Tea, milk, no sugar, please."
"... and you?"
:)

VFE
5th Feb 2009, 17:58
Reminds me of the time my Nan was lavishing praise on my mums best friend as her and mum were about to walk out the door for a special evening dinner engagement...

"Ooooh, look at you sweetheart, you look goooorgeous, oh yes you do, you look stunning my darling, absolutely splendid, a million dollars, amazing, marvellous...."

and then, turning to my mother (her daughter in law)...

"..you look quite nice too dear..." :}

I have been a full time flying instructor for about three years now which as most here will know is a lowly position for a pilot in the grand ole scheme of things however, it is an important role (I like to think anyway!) nonetheless, and obviously one that requires me to vaguely resemble pilot status myself, seeing as I am training pilots in a real cockpit on a daily basis, wouldn't you say? No. Still friends will ask me when I'm going to be a pilot. It is just one of those things which I have learned to chuckle inwardly over.

People will engage mouth before brain all too often but there is no excuse for poor spelling and grammar. See me.

VFE.

radeng
5th Feb 2009, 18:14
But we kept being told that the FO is there to do the walk round when the weather is lousy. Others say that the FO is there to look after the Captain, who may be an elderly type requiring constant attention......

One does wonder about the extreme case of something going wrong and the captain being simultaneously incapacitated. When the BA flight had the windscreen come out the other year, it was useful that the cockpit door wasn't locked and the CC could quickly get in to help... and the Ryanair flight where a relatively inexperienced FO turned back when the captain was taken ill because the FO hadn't done a landing at night into the destination airport shows how responsible and professional flight crew (even FOs!) are - especially when compared with a lot of occupations.

In fact, personally I feel more confident with the professional capabilities of airline pilots (all flight crew) than with many of the doctors I've had to deal with.

I await the flack....

corsair
5th Feb 2009, 18:16
Curses, I thought I'd get away with it but no, two of you caught me out. I suppose I shouldn't complane too much.

Now here's a question for the spelling and grammar experts. I once saw plane rendered as 'plane on the basis that the apostrophe stands in for the missing letters thus legitimising the use of the word plane. Just like in the title of this thread where the word effing is depicted as F'ing. Therefore the title of this thread should be: Yes, I do Fly the F'ing 'Plane.

True - False?:confused:

Chesty Morgan
5th Feb 2009, 18:18
Corsair, spot on. Like telephone becomes 'phone. Innit.

Has anyone read Eats, Shoots and Leaves?:}

Loose rivets
5th Feb 2009, 18:33
Funny thing is, I didn't even notice the spelling mistakes.:uhoh: But then, I've declared my deficiencies (flippin' 'ek! There's no red line under deficiencies.) about spelling, several times. As long as the first and last letter are okay, I can read it.


I had a bloody awful time as a young co-pilot. WWII blokes hardly knowing I was there, and others who needed so much input to keep them safe, that I hardly had time to do my own job. By the time I was 30, I said, 'No more right seat...ever!' It meant I had to fly some rough old kit sometimes, and I might have put up with it a bit longer if I had my time over again, but anyone that doesn't want to be in the left, probably shouldn't be in the right.

amber 1
5th Feb 2009, 18:51
Spelling and grammer aside, I think the original post

are you going to train as a Pilot then??

was pure unadulterated sarcasm and perhaps zerotohero should consider the quality of his piloting skills.

Blues&twos
5th Feb 2009, 19:14
My reaction was the same as amber 1's.

CC just taking the p1ss. And if they know it winds you up, could explain why it's happened five times in a week....

chuks
5th Feb 2009, 19:36
I had a fellow ask me that at a party one evening in Germany...

I cannot remember but I think I had told him about my life and times flying charter in Nigeria when he replied with that question. I wondered if I had just been insulted but decided to answer with another question, when I asked him exactly what he meant by that before taking a swing at him.

He said, "Oh, get a job with Lufthansa, perhaps?"

I just shrugged and told him that meant having to get a pilot's licence and all, when he nodded agreement that would mean a lot of trouble so best to just carry on as I had done as a... what exactly? I have no idea what he thought it was I did there flying my little 32-seat airliner for a major oil company but, hey, if it ain't Lufthansa it ain't squat.

The other day I had a fellow ask why it was we "held hands" on takeoff in our Twin Otter. I just explained that we were gay, that was all... I don't think he believed me, somehow.

gingernut
5th Feb 2009, 19:48
"It is an inclined plane, cleverley curved, to be sure, and elaborately streamlined, but still an inclined plane. That's, after all, why that whole fascinating contraption of ours is called an air-plane. "


Wolfgang Langeweische.1944.


You may not heard of him, his book, Stick and Rudder tends to be read by only proper pilots.

Nearly There
5th Feb 2009, 19:57
The Co-pilot

Written in 1941 and first published in October 1942 in
"The Airline Pilot" the monthly magazine of US ALPA.

I am the co-pilot, I sit on the right,
Itís up to me to be quick and bright;
I never talk back for I have regrets,
But I have to remember what the Captain forgets.

I make out the flight plan and study the weather,
Pull up the gear, stand by to feather;
Make out the mail forms and do the reporting;
And fly the old crate while the Captain is courting.

I take the readings, adjust the power,
Put on the heaters when weíre in a shower;
Tell him where we are on the darkest of night,
And do all the bookwork without any light.

I call for my Captain and buy him cokes;
I always laugh at his corney jokes;
And once in a while when his landings are rusty,
I always come through with, "By gosh itís gusty".

All in all Iím a general stooge,
As I sit on the right of the man I call "Scrooge";
I guess you think this is past understanding,
But maybe some day he will give me a landing.

corsair
5th Feb 2009, 21:13
No CRM in 1941 obviously. I did hear a story of a grizzled old Captain flying for a middle eastern airline which insisted on local FOs of dubious quality. He simply ordered them to sit on their hands and touch nothing.

Sometimes Captains are mistaken for pilot helpers. I was at a regional airport once in the departure lounge. In taxied a shed. The Captain was female but the FO or indeed probably the SO, was obviously just out of Oxford, looked sixteen and as green as grass. Two women were beside me. 'Oh look' says one 'There's the pilot. He's very young'. Completely ignoring the Captain who they probably assumed was an 'air hostess' or his Mother.

I have been told that I'm not a real pilot. Apparently to be a real pilot you must fly real aeroplanes. Which obviously have jet engines and be big enough to stand up in. The thing I fly apparently doesn't qualify. Oddly enough, Rumours and News applies a similar standard.:):\

Fg Off Max Stout
5th Feb 2009, 21:32
My god,,, 5 times in the past few weeks now I have had some tit say to me are you going to train as a Pilot then??

'god' gets a lower case G, but 'Pilot' is capitalized! Something Freudian there, I'm sure.

John Marsh
5th Feb 2009, 21:36
Captain Stable - well put Sir.

I wonder if the falling standards in English classes have a negative effect on the intellectual development of the children in them. Precision and articulateness in speech follow the same qualities in thought. If the curriculum does not demand them, how can they grow?

Loose rivets
5th Feb 2009, 21:43
articulateness? articulateness?! You'll be saying communicativeness next. :}

traveler
5th Feb 2009, 21:54
I thought we did the numbers and the girls do the words. :rolleyes:
But you boys speak real pretty. :p

Chesty Morgan
5th Feb 2009, 21:56
I don't think that you can wholly blame falling education standards. I am of a similar age to the OP and while I'm no Dickens or Shakespeare I think I have a fairly good standard of English.

On the subject of the thread. I remember, back when I was an F/O, a young boy pointing at me and saying "Mummy look a pilot, wow"*. Mummy looked at me, sort of sneered and loudly proclaimed "That's not a pilot, that's the Co-Pilot". I shrugged and smiled to myself. I really couldn't care less about what the general public think I am. I know and my colleagues know and that's all that matters to me. I don't have a precious ego.

* OK I added the "wow":}

anotherthing
5th Feb 2009, 22:02
Stupid Cabin Crew - everyone knows that modern aircraft fly themselves and pilots are glorified systems managers. :E

birrddog
6th Feb 2009, 00:17
But you boys speak real pretty. :p

Traveler, get it right for Pete's sake!

It's purty, not pretty! You boys speak real purty!

Keef
6th Feb 2009, 00:41
Has anyone read Eats, Shoots and Leaves?:}

Has anyone not read it?

CarltonBrowne the FO
6th Feb 2009, 04:03
Traveler, are you named after the horse?
Famous Horses: Traveler (http://petcaretips.net/traveler.html)

x213a
6th Feb 2009, 05:13
I think the original poster has been 'had' on a wind up and has 'bit' splendidly.

Or else he is fishing for a bite here.

edit> i will upgrade that...I call Walt!

Solid Rust Twotter
6th Feb 2009, 05:28
Walt?

Stone him....

birrddog
6th Feb 2009, 05:41
Wait a minute there SRT, before being so quick to dole out sentencing..

If he managed to get a leg over whilst Walting, I do believe that is firmly within the acceptable rules.

We need answers!

C'mon, did ya?

(Of course, we would need full vivid details in order to be sure)

x213a
6th Feb 2009, 05:41
Dollis Hill

Get out of that one without a fish pun:ok:

AMF
6th Feb 2009, 06:13
John Marsh quote.. Captain Stable - well put Sir.

I wonder if the falling standards in English classes have a negative effect on the intellectual development of the children in them. Precision and articulateness in speech follow the same qualities in thought. If the curriculum does not demand them, how can they grow?


Um, "articulateness"? How about "articulation", as in "Precision and articulation in speech blah blah blah". Or you could go with something like this; "Precision in speech and one's ability to articulate blah blah blah". Better yet, you could drop the "Precision (in speech)" altogether since, if you're conveying the concept of articulation, it's rather redundant as articulation and imprecise blather are mutually exclusive traits. How about.....

"The ability to articulate follows that same quality in thought".

That sentence uses one less word and none of them are made up. :ok:

corsair
6th Feb 2009, 10:07
Unfortunately, I am unable to express myself with clarity as I am insufficiently articulate.

I learned to say that as I can't talk proper, like them hedge-icated chaps.

ExSp33db1rd
6th Feb 2009, 10:20
In reply to a few earlier comments ............

Flt. Engineers need to do sums, Co-pilots have to write, and Captains have to know someone who can read.

and .........

As I gained in seniority I was able to select the Freighter trips, magic. Only had to fly the aircraft and needn't be nice to anyone - except probably ones crew.

Mentioning in the pub one night that I had just returned from a freight run, I was asked when I was going to be allowed to fly passengers !

and.......

pnutcaioutn and gmarmar- it has been siad taht one olny has to hvae the frist and lsat ltetres of any wrod in the crrocet palce, to be albe to raed any snnteece.

traveler
6th Feb 2009, 10:42
Traveler, are you named after the horse?
Famous Horses: Traveler


Hey Thanks Carlton, you showed me something I didn't know.
And I also changed from 2 L's to 1. As on your linked e-page.
Convenience. After learning that in various countries various ways of spelling in a supposedly similar language are acceptable or considered correct.

I, as you would've guessed, find spelling and grammar very difficult.

aviate1138
6th Feb 2009, 10:54
Flying/piloting an aeroplane isn't usually that difficult. It's airmanship that takes the real effort.

aviate1138
6th Feb 2009, 10:58
Flying/piloting an aeroplane isn't usually that difficult.

It's airmanship that takes the real effort.

Not unlike using the correct spelling/grammar/syntax...........

chuks
6th Feb 2009, 15:26
"Not unlike..." You must mean "like," then?

I love this British addiction to the use of circumlocution. "I say, my dear, that shared interlude of sexual congress was not totally displeasing!" Way to go, Romeo...

traveler
6th Feb 2009, 16:00
So we summarize ... (?) ... like ... babe, you rock ! ... ?

Scrubbed
6th Feb 2009, 16:01
I love this British addiction to the use of circumlocution. "I say, my dear, that shared interlude of sexual congress was not totally displeasing!" Way to go, Romeo...




chuks


Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Africa/Germany
Age: 61


Hey at least they don't pee (or worse) all over each other when they're finished.

FLCH
6th Feb 2009, 16:19
I love this British addiction to the use of circumlocution.


I'm not ...besides I'm too old to get it done now :uhoh:

Captain Stable
6th Feb 2009, 17:12
I love this British addiction to the use of circumlocution.I thought that was something Jewish boys had done to them??? :confused:

frostbite
6th Feb 2009, 17:55
Nah, that's circumspect.

ricardian
6th Feb 2009, 18:25
Daily Telegraph article (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/4448262/Aeroflot-says-drunk-pilot-no-big-deal.html)
"It's not such a big deal if the pilot is drunk," one representative said, according to the English-language Moscow Times, which had a reporter on board.
"Really, all he has to do is press a button and the plane flies itself. The worst that could happen is he'll trip over something in the cockpit."

John Marsh
6th Feb 2009, 19:35
AMF - I plead Not Guilty!

Wordweb (incorrectly) denied the existence of the term 'articulacy', but it did suggest 'articulateness'.

Here's the definition: Cambridge Dictionaries Online - Cambridge University Press (http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=4161&dict=CALD)

It doesn't mention precision.:\

chuks
6th Feb 2009, 20:01
Sorry for your not exactly positive experience of Germany, Scrubbed but when the girl asked you if you liked "watersports" she wasn't asking if you liked swimming and diving.

unstable load
7th Feb 2009, 02:28
chuks, do you think it has anything to do with his name, then??

chuks
7th Feb 2009, 07:52
I think we need a little more information from "Scrubbed" before we can come to a considered opinion about what goes on in one of my adopted countries, Germany. Too, there is always this language gap between the British and the Americans so that I may be misunderstanding the exact nature of his complaint, if complaint it is.

Perhaps some well-meaning German friends assumed that he was looking for a "scrubber," thinking of that quite literally as a girl who was really keen on housework and fixed him up with one. Or it might be down to a simple misunderstanding about an alternate meaning for the word "watersports."

We really need him to tell us, in strict confidence of course, what really went on during (most probably) his visit to Hamburg's famous "Reeperbahn." (That means "ropewalk," by the way and not a lot of people know that.)

Cheer up, Scrubbed, it could be worse! I took the wife to Amsterdam for a weekend once when we bought tickets to a "dog and pony show" expecting something like animal tricks at the circus back in the village. Boy, did we get a shock!

CirrusF
7th Feb 2009, 08:50
A while back I was taking some pax somewhere in an air-taxi. One of the guys had to sit up front with me. As I was starting up and taxying out to the holding point, he was watching me like a hawk. Once ready for departure, I pulled out the checklist for a last run through the pre-take off checks. At this point, he became visibly agitated, and blurted out "Are you sure you know how to fly this plane? I'm counting on you!"

He calmed down for most of the rest of the flight, until I had to get out a chart to check a nav frequency - this got him very nervous too "are you sure you know where you're going?".

chuks
7th Feb 2009, 10:05
I remember very well once having three huge, black Bahamian "market ladies" on a flight from Miami back to Freeport with their shopping, all of it!

These are seriously tough women, of course, making their way through life dealing with adversity by being very, very assertive. First they bullied me a bit about getting everything crammed in there to their satisfaction and then two of them squeezed into the back seat and the third one got in there next to me in my little BE95 Travel Air. (Just think of that joke about "How do you get five elephants into a VW Beetle?" and you will get the picture.)

The one sat next to me looked over as I was reading through the checklist to ask, "You needs dat little piece of paper to fly you airplane?"

I just told her, "Absolutely, Madame! You had better hope that I don't lose it before we reach Freeport."

Another time I had two young lawyers who needed to go from Miami to Daytona and back. On the way to the aircraft one of them asked a very odd question, "How many hours on instruments do you have?"

"Oh, about 300 hours, I guess." It was one of those perfect Florida days so that I added, "Why do you ask?"

"I have 700!" came the reply, "Maybe I should fly the plane."

"Golly, how much total time do you have, then?"

"About 850 hours. Why?" (Just another one logging every hour under IFR as instrument time, I guess, not noticing how the FAA told you to do that. Either that or else he was based in the Aleutian Islands.)

"It's such a nice day that I really think my skills should be enough to do the trip safely. I do have about 3, 500 total hours flown, as it happens. Are you okay with that?" Answer came there none...

Call me a slacker but I had flown all over this area so that I knew exactly how to find Daytona. (Basically it was just a matter of staying just offshore, keeping the green on the left, the blue on the right and waiting for Daytona Beach Airport to appear in the middle distance. Not rocket science, in other words and no need for much in the way of charts and plates, even though these were ready to hand, given that I knew all the freqs required.)

As I busied myself with the mundane details of a VFR departure from Miami International Airport Mr IFR grabbed my personal Jepps off the floor of the Baron and made a great show of extracting the relevant instrument chart, opening it to the sector we were flying and squashing it flat-flat-flat. What, this was what I should have done myself? Well, "live and learn," I guess...

Do that two or three times and your tissue-paper-thin chart disintegrates but never mind that because he then managed to engage the gear handle (over on the right in an old Baron) I had just placed in the "Up" position with the 2-inch Jepp binder to put the gear back "Down!"

The poor old Baron gave a great shudder as the gear started back down, so that I very quickly flipped the switch back up again.

"What was THAT?" asked our resident expert.

"You just extended the landing gear, over the gear limit speed, not watching what you were doing there. Kindly touch NOTHING!"

"Huh? Why do they put the gear switch there?"

"Hey, it is an old Baron, built before they standardised everything. You have to pay attention to what you are doing with this airplane."

"Well, that is a STUPID place to put the gear switch!"

"Yeah, I suppose so..." Hope of getting a tip from these two was evaporating along with my limited supply of patience.

On the way back Mr IFR told his buddy to take the front seat, that he was "getting nervous" about flying with me.

I just told him that, "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing." There are two ways to take that one and I cannot say which one he took but, no, there was no tip forthcoming, a disappointment but not a surprise.