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Reluctant737
3rd Feb 2009, 15:03
First of all, I love the snow, and today is the last in a string of four I have off from jolly old RYR, so I decided to head south Welwyn Garden way to see a few friends I've not been in the company of for some months due the hectic schedules I've been operating these past few months (all work, all sleep, you know the drill!). And for a few hours I turned from Adam the pilot ace (as quote by somebody else, not yours truly) into a kid again, and we had a great time making huge balls of the white stuff, having snowball fights, we even had one of their sleds out, and believe it or not, constructed half an igloo (!) before we became too cold!

So all in all, a fantastic day, but of course being the responsible employee I am decided I'd better be heading back up my way for a few hours rest (not typing up how I had a blade across my neck) before climbing into bed to prepare for the job I am very lucky to have in present times.

Now I am a fond smoker of tobacco, I'll come clean about that - I do enjoy a cigarette as one may enjoy a beer (I don't drink, positive Karma?) or a coffee, so decided I'd roll a few up before heading up. I happened to be driving through an area that some may steer clear of, but I am generally non perplexed as the majority of my childhood was spent in a similar vibe. So I pulled over (mistake).

I was rolling my second cigarette when I became aware of somebody walking past my car very close by, then walking on, so I didn't bother looking up, I've met all sorts in my past and there aren't many who get 'through' me. So I continued what I was doing and as I placed aforementioned cigarette down next to me, this person came back and stood just outside my window - so normally alarm bells may start ringing and one may lock their doors at this point, but hey, was probably somebody who was lost.

Down goes the window, and here's a summary,

Me - "Hello?"
Halfcast chap with a metal tooth and 'modern' accent - "Alright mate, you got any weed?"
Me - "No, afraid not, and not sure where you would find any round here."
HC - "Ok, you know where the university is, 'cos that's where they do all that innit?"
Me - "I'm not local, so I can't help you there."
HC - "Stop pissing around."

And promptly walks off in the other direction. Now I've met people like this before when I was younger (I grew up on a council estate) and I know their type well - but even I knew that was my cue. So sod the fags, I'll find a nice country lane where people walk their dogs to pull over in somewhere - key in ignition...

Next thing I know, my passenger door is wrenched open, this guy slams himself down into the seat next to me (incidentally crushing the cigarettes I had just rolled, most intolerant) and there is (at an estimation) a 6" blade across my throat. I've never experienced this particular delight before, but for those of you who wish to know the feeling - it's similar to an engine failure in an SEP. You prepare yourself for this moment your whole life and have an associated drill in your mind to deal with it. But when it happens, you instinctively freeze for a second before taking action. I decided to remain silent. I often thought, sitting alone in my car, what I would do if this happened to me - I always came to the conclusion that my fist would find its way back at incredible speed to the assailants face, thus allowing me to take the knife away and there we have it, I am at the advantage. Not quite so in real life.

The guy told me in no uncertain tone to "Drive!", so this I duly did, simultaneously considering crashing the car at some point (obviously he wasn't wearing the seatbelt) at about 30 mph to either send him flying clear or rendering him injured. This never happened either. No, to be honest, there's not much more to tell, I drove a couple of miles through town and dropped him off outside a similar scummy area, the guy was out in a flash and I was left on my own again with my thoughts, and a couple of wrinkled roll-up cigarettes. I decided to call my friends and let them know what had just happened, but, you guessed it, he'd had the phone as well. I guess I should be thankful on that note, as I had a TomTom in my glovebox and about forty quid in the centre compartment. Ironically, the phone had no credit on it.

I don't know, it's a shame that a lovely day had to be ruined. Am I going to call the police? No - I know, and he knows they will do diddly squat - should I have called them immediately after, the guy would have been ensconced in whatever shithole he was heading to, immune from any possible means of locating him.

I shall just treat it as a lesson - no matter how much you think you know people, or how you'll deal with situations, you can never prepare for the actual event itself.

I'm 20 years old, perhaps I've just had my first real lesson in life?

Best regards, Ad.

p.s. Any similar stories would be most interesting to read!#

edited to add - This story, I would like not just to highlight what happened today, that's only half of it. It got me thinking - I'm young, strong and fit. This happens thousands of times a day to people so much more vulnerable, and quite frankly, it makes me sick. Minirant over.

Beatriz Fontana
3rd Feb 2009, 15:08
Don't be so daft, report it to the police.

This is a serious offence. Give them a description of the idiot before he does any more damage.

Storminnorm
3rd Feb 2009, 15:09
Serves you right. :=

Parapunter
3rd Feb 2009, 15:12
Hatfield was always a s**thole.

Forkandles
3rd Feb 2009, 15:15
Did it really happen Mr 737? Really?

Reluctant737
3rd Feb 2009, 15:15
In retrospect, I'll get onto the old bill and send a description in - as silly as it sounds, I hadn't considered that. Still a little shaken as you can imagine!

Cheers

Say again s l o w l y
3rd Feb 2009, 15:16
That's awful mate. Do report it to the Police though. It doesn't matter if they don't catch him (they won't) but it gives them a picture of what's going on in a certain area.

corsair
3rd Feb 2009, 15:21
Report it, next time he might use the knife. If you'd only thought of it at the time, (isn't that alway the story), with him not wearing a seat belt there is no need to crash just brake very hard from speed. If that doesn't knock him out on the windscreen or dashboard, he will certainly rendered useless for a minute or two. You can be gone, with the keys in a flash. Too late now though. But report it and keep the doors locked when you're in the car. I always do even though I live in one of the safest cities in this country.

Light Westerly
3rd Feb 2009, 15:23
Glad you were not physically hurt. Don't beat yourself up about not fighting back in this case. 6" Blade can ruin your day, and your car's upholstery, very, very quickly.
Be safe out there.

Rainboe
3rd Feb 2009, 15:23
That'll teach you to smoke!

Seriously, is there any point in trying to take it further? Assuming they do catch the blighter, what's he done?
Stolen a phone? Didn't see the thing mate!
Held a knife to your throat? What knife Guvnor? This geezer gives me a lift then demands money or drugs, so's I legged it!

I think you're right to leave it alone, but lock the doors! And give up smoking! Your presence rolling cigarettes put ideas into this guy's head. Just be grateful you got a relatively tame one!

Reluctant737
3rd Feb 2009, 15:35
Evanelpus,

I totally agree with you mate - retrospect's a wonderful thing, but despite the area, there were people walking up and down (always saw somebody on the street, albeit some distance away) - I guess I associated these things with hanging about the red light district at stupid o' clock having just slapped a hooker about.

Very stupid of me - however, before I get flamed too much over this, I am NOT looking for sympathy, just getting my story on the books so to speak - I like reading other peoples' experiences like this so thought I would share it and get it off my chest.

We all know the dangers (including me), but today was a very sharp kick back to reality. :ugh:

Roger Sofarover
3rd Feb 2009, 15:42
Well i guess you are now on your way to you PhD in hindsight.

indiscipline_girl
3rd Feb 2009, 15:43
He is probably already known to the police.

Report the incident with a description of said miscreant. It will add to the picture of what he's up to.

Just like not putting an entry in the maintenance log because 'they won't do anything', if you don't then there is no record of it happening.

Evanelpus
3rd Feb 2009, 15:53
We all know the dangers (including me), but today was a very sharp kick back to reality.

Was it Hatfield? If so, it doesn't shock me at all. For gods sake, learn from this. We live in a society where certain individuals will do just about anything to acheive their goals and that includes 'sticking you' for money or whatever.

dead_pan
3rd Feb 2009, 16:05
I think the way you dealt with the situation was spot on. I know there is a temptation to have a go but unless you really felt that there is no other option but to defend yourself, being calm and complicit is by far the best course of action. Don't worry about your macho self-image taking a bit of a knock - you'll get over it. If its any consolation he probably has a very small c*ck as a result of his habitual drugs usage.:ok:

Go out and have a few pints with your mates - no doubt they'll enjoy taking the p*ss out of you. You may also want to give plod a call to ensure their statistics are kept up-to-date.

G-CPTN
3rd Feb 2009, 16:16
I was rolling my second cigarette
Now my Mother would have said that if you didn't smoke then you wouldn't have been stopped where you were, and if you hadn't been 'rolling your own' your assailant wouldn't have had any reason to ask whether you had any 'weed', so you have to see yourself as having placed yourself in the situation that resulted in you being 'propositioned'.
So give up smoking - smoking can damage your health . . .


. . . and don't speak to strangers . . .


. . . and keep your doors locked.

Parapunter
3rd Feb 2009, 16:20
Where was it R737? I guessed hatfield from what you said. I grew up in Stanborough, where a barking dog would get in the WHT, so I guess Hatfield was where trouble goes looking for people. Always was when I was a teenager. We stayed well clear.

Never the same after BAe left that town. Shocking place it is now.

Loose rivets
3rd Feb 2009, 16:27
The time delay has left you open to the police thinking that you may have been rolling the real thing. Dwell on that and be ready to provide witnesses that will confirm you always roll you own with ordinary bakky.


It's a shame. He probably wouldn't have risked doing that in Texas. Knife to the throat? With all I believe in about forgiveness etc., I think I would have dispatched him - if it had happened here.

There, you did the right thing...eventually. However, I wouldn't have let him out of my sight until he'd gone over horizon - all done with the doors locked. But there's still a but. Bad guys in the UK often have guns, locked doors wouldn't stop a bullet. The good guys are no longer allowed to own one, let alone carry it. So, I'd have beat a hasty retreat.

One time that I could have put up a sporting defense, I just waited and let a pair of local morons kick me around. The law will provide. Would it Fcuk.

There was very little pain but a pair of fingers in my eyes connected to the slob that was sitting on me was an incentive to remain calm. That's not allowed in judo. Very unsporting.

Anyway, while I was dialing the police, the Rivetess heads off into the garden and demands to know why this character has attacked her husband. What I see through the window was my assailant waving a machete in front of my wife. My exclamation was recorded on the police phone.

I grabbed a hunting rifle, and headed into the garden. Things got a little nasty at this point. Anyway, long story short, I ended up with the police being quite nice at first. "You forget the assault, and we'll forget the firearm thing."

I was having none of this. I had taken emergency steps to ensure the safety of my wife. I had shown appropriate moderation by never even raising the barrel. The pair were known locally as being dangerous.

This went of for a year, with me trying to get them prosecuted for a SUSTAINED AND WITNESSED ASSAULT - CAUSING ACTUAL BODILY HARM. I never ever got any satisfaction, despite local knowledge that the younger of the two had hospitalized his girlfriend twice, and injured several locals for no reason whatsoever. The girl had once told us a graphic tale of helping him clean her blood out of the car. She didn't know why she forgave him etc., etc.. Surprisingly common story. When she got terminally ill, he left her.

It seemed these thugs had some mystical immunity that became very apparent when solicitor after solicitor suddenly refused the case..even starting then dropping it on two occasions. The whole thing stank to high heaven, and I lost what little respect I had left for the legals system in the UK.

I was told in the early stages that I would never get them to court. A senior Round-Table member. Same from a former Master of the local Lodge. He was a pal of many years. Just how could this kind of corruption exist in my country. I just didn't believe how strong the old boy network could be, especially when the two thugs were the most mindless pair of apes that you could imagine.

TBirdFrank
3rd Feb 2009, 16:31
I've always believed in the maxim of eyes open - ears waggling to get you out of trouble.

Then this happened - not to me thankfully - but it is true.

Celebrating the end of a contract, a few beers were downed in Manchester before everyone headed home.

One of the guys left to make his way from Ancoats to Piccadilly, but as he walked the deserted rag trade streets which do have a certain
"reputation" - sure enough a young lady appeared and propostioned him.

He declined politely and made to carry on - but out of the shadows steps the pimp - blade in hand.

"You've just insulted my lady by refusing" - was the jist - "Now you owe us some money"

So what do you do

Pay up and if Plod appears - you may end up in Aytoun St Magistrates Court for procuring

Don't pay and you are in MRI or worse

Luckily - at that moment the police van appeared, so our man ran across, grabbed hold of the drivers window and said "get me out of here" - which they did.

Moral - you might have all the confidence in the world - but still take the elementary precautions - like G-CPTN said - stopped in an iffy area - keep 'em locked.

They may try to put a fist in, but you can fire up and be gone - hopefully

Reluctant737
3rd Feb 2009, 17:02
Parapunter,

You would be correct - my friends live in a little place called Essendon just East of Hatfield. I had stopped to buy some tobacco from an off-licence, but parked just round the corner which had those illogical bollards separating streets - I just happened to spot the shop while I was driving.

Loose Rivets, indeed I know things are conducted a little differently in the good old US, especially in the South - but had I in fact gone for the chap and, for example, broken his nose, I'd have expected a visit from the Police a few hours later. I've learnt the best method (asides from aviation) is to shut up and don't leave a trail.

TBirdFrank, sounds like a nightmare scenario, but what do you do? Personally I'd have probably ran for it, but it sure sounds like your friend was mighty lucky. Plus, you don't know what these people are like, for all I know I may have had the bareknuckle champion of Hatfield sat in my car today, who knows. There was a noticeable size difference between us - I am 15.5 stone, 6'3 and used to play rugby like nobody's business, and keep myself fit at the gym reguarly. But then again, I've never been in a fight in my life, discounting one scrap at high school. I've only tinkered with martial arts in the past, so I'm glad I responded the way I did.

I was 99% sure the knife was to reinforce his demands and not to injure yours truly, but that's not a chance worth taking.

I've given a description of what happened and what the guy looked like to the constabulary local to that area, and have been told to expect a phone call back from a Sergeant for more information.

I shouldn't think that my rolling my own cigarettes will bring up any cause for concern - I appreciate it could look that way, but a) In the unjust event the Police to try to look into it, there is no evidence, and b) They could scour every inch of my car, my apartment, and take every sample possible from me and not find a thing.

Appreciate the comments guys, I'm starting to feel a bit better about this now, and if I hadn't read some of the responses here I probably wouldn't have called in about this, so thanks.

Ad

birrddog
3rd Feb 2009, 17:17
R737, despite some points I would hope you would consider the 'next time round' that lead up to the incident, I think you took the right steps during.

I have always thought what I would do in that situation, especially if the Mrs was around, and in truth I think remaining calm and not taking action unless things are already beyond control, is the harder, though highest probability of success outcome. Success being defined as not ending up in hospital, the morgue or jail.

On a feel good note though, I would like to repeat a story of a friend of mine from South Africa..

He was at the traffic lights (or Robot's as we like to call them), in an industrial part of town, having just dropped off someone who worked for him, when a knife came through the slightly open window and was pressed against his throat, where the assailant demanded his wallet and watch.

It was a rather unassuming old car, and my friend of medium, if not slight build is also rather unassuming, so the assailant had no way of knowing that my friend was an ex-Parrabat Sniper who had faced his share of adversity in Angola and elsewhere (if you've read anything about these guys, you'd understand), and that he had perhaps selected the wrong target.

The assailant quickly realized, after his arm was grabbed, the window rolled up to lock his arm in, and the car rapidly accelerating past 30kph, that he had made a bad choice.

Upon realizing the error of his ways, he dropped the knife, at which time my friend rolled down the window and carried on driving into the night.

It always makes me feel warm inside to hear that story when I force it out of my friend, to hear it in his matter of fact, humble delivery.

Buster Hyman
3rd Feb 2009, 21:16
I just read recently where a bank teller faked feinting in order to foil a robbery. If you're out cold, he can only get out to try your door, at which point you lock him out etc...(Just don't feint forward onto that knife!) ;)

Anyway, my 2cents worth... report it. It goes towards the stats, he could have priors, if there's a neighbourhood watch program, it will alert the locals to be mindful & lock their doors. Not reporting it will reinforce in his mind that he can get away with it & possibly try it again.

Yes, the system seems broken, some of these scrotes get away with too much, but, the system is all we have & if we don't support it & use it, then we lose it.

Richo77
3rd Feb 2009, 22:01
About a year or so ago i was sitting on my doorstep having a smoke and my dad walked in the gate. He and Mum live 500 metres down the road but he wasnt due to come over and looked a bit flustered. Upon asking him what had happened he told me the following:

Whilst 100 metres down the road (opposite direction to where he lives) and whilst walking home from the train station some idiot jumped out at him with a knife and demanded his wallet. Now Dad is 6ft 3 140plus kilos and somewhat imposing but a heart attack 5 years ago slowed him down a bit. Regardless, Dad complied but whilst reaching for his wallet (there was little in it) he smashed the young ijit with his umbrella in the jewels.

Once doubled over he cracked him a couple more times (big umbrella, thick wooden handle) and when on the pavement gave him a couple of swift kicks in the ribs for good measure.

I raced down to the corner, and sure enough there was some young bloke sprawled on the pavement not moving with a couple of people trying to get him up. He was fine it turned out but definately knew he had been in a fight.

Dad was okay, but he was very, very shaken.

He still cant explain why he did it or how it just happened he says. Downside is it was my blimmin umbrella which he'd borrowed so essentially he was coming to apologize for the damage.

Blacksheep
3rd Feb 2009, 22:27
Hatfield was always a s**tholeNow then, now then - Hatfield is to the south of Welwyn GC so perhaps you don't know our town quite as well as you claim. :=

Its quite nice here, actually. Now, since he drove south to Welwyn, he'd have been driving north to go back - Stevenage maybe, or perhaps Luton, but on balance, Luton is more likely. No 2 daughter is a public persecutor in Luton where, although their office is established for handling up to 12 murders at any one time, they are working an 19 at the moment.

Which is why the local cops won't be exactly over-excited about someone hi-jacking a car and stealing a mobile phone. :(

fitliker
4th Feb 2009, 01:25
The first time it happens it scares you stiff and you do not react quick enough to do any harm to the robber.
The next time the robber will not be so lucky as you have had a very strong emotional reaction and will be prepared the next time.
The last guy to pull a knife on me got the shock of his short life.
Never take a knife to a gun fight:E

Luap
4th Feb 2009, 01:57
The stolen telephone can be identified by it's telephone number and it's imei number. So the police should be able to trace it easily.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Mobile_Equipment_Identity

dany4kin
4th Feb 2009, 02:48
From what you've said it sounds like you did very well, you kept yourself out of harms way.

Be aware that if you're anything like me, you'll be able to replay this situation over and over and over in your mind, to the point it will get your heart pumping like it was when it was happening, and you'll feel real anxiety.

I was mugged with some friends on the way home from the cinema by a large group of youths. I was the oldest of our group of about 6 (aged only about 16 then) and to this day I can still feel the anger, the stress of feeling so helpless, so powerless, as I and my friends, male and female, were held to ransom and pushed about, forced to surrender the few things we had.

I was so angry I stopped a car passing by with the intention of asking to 'borrow' the car to run these guys over, I was that mad. The driver had the better idea of calling the Police who were brilliant.

If you do go to the Police, which like others have said, you should, they can offer counselling for these after effects if you felt you might need it. Don't be tough about it, these kinds of events can give you flashbacks and anxiety attacks, I guess it could be called PTSD.

Like I said, I can still get my heart pumping thinking about it, but you've got to move on, learn from it if you can (not that you should have to as an innocent member of the public) but not to get hung up on it. Talking about it with friends does help, as reliving it under controlled surroundings will help you to deal with it.

Seriously, this kind of thing can come out a few days after the event so look after yourself.

And if you see the guy again...... Actually I reckon you've probably figured that bit out.... I did with my lot....

Loose rivets
4th Feb 2009, 04:51
The thing about these assaults is that you never know how you're going to react. All those years ago I was taken aback by being assaulted in my garden...or on the boundary. The cretins had been employed by my zillionair neighbors who were devoid of decency and character themselves. To this day, I deeply regret not having a go. Civil air transport captain and all that. Codes of behavior. Club rules, don't use your skills etc., etc....Bollox!

Trouble is that I think that I can still do it. Still over two hundred pounds. Still very active on a good-back day. Yeah, right...200 lbs of lard. Tiny thin bloke inside.

I was pulling a tree root out a while back. Have to take care of the old spine, but still dig - cut - dig - heave...bum! Come out! Nope. Won't. My neighbor comes round and snaps the thing out and hauls it off. How can this be? I was the one that helped my neighbors until recently. (recently to old people is within the last 20 years) But I still get aggressive with some of the locals. Ones who drive at 40+ past a school, ones who let their German Sheppard try to eat my dog...any righteous indignation really. I'm still prone to letting loose.

The knife attack. The last time I practiced getting my toes buried into an opponent's coeliac plexus, I got a sharp pain that shot from my rectal sphincter, up into the ball of string that's connected to the back of the eyeballs. The result was similar to dropping an anvil onto One's willy, then having it bounce and the spiky bit going in One's ear.

At least when you practice by yourself you're sure of winning...Oh, and simultaneously losing I suppose.

Hobgoblin
4th Feb 2009, 16:03
All I can say Reluctant, is that it's a good thing you kept your cool. You cannot jump about making a fuss when the knife is already against your throat unless you're a super black belt in about 10 different martial arts. If you were, the miscreant wouldn't have gotten the knife close to your throat in the first place.

Good news is though that the next time something like this happens will be very different. The inbred mouthbreather will not be able to get the knife anywhere close to your throat before you've broken his arm and shoved his own knife up his backside. The key is speed and agression, and you'll be plenty agressive. Fear will lend you wings.

The best thing about this is that from now on is that you'll be more aware of your surroundings and you'll give off a vibe that will warn scum like this off. They prey on people that are unsuspecting, unaware, or afraid. People who look and act self assured and aware do not fit the profile of an easy victim.

Remember the old Roman saying: "If you want peace prepare for war."? Unless you exude the confidence of someone who is prepared you will draw scum like this into messing with you.

Final thought: avoiding trouble is better than dealing with the aftermath. Easier to walk away than to explain to the cops why the poor innocent little guy has a broken arm, a knife up his bum and a set of testicles where his tonsils used to be.

Especially with him bleating that he just wanted to ask you the time and that you viciously attacked him, drew a knife out of your pocket and robbed him. Never a CCTV camera or a cop around when you need one.

Be careful out there.

Captain Speedbird
4th Feb 2009, 16:27
I agree Hobgoblin. A few years dedicated to a martial art is time well spent.
Its simply impossible to get one past my kid. His reactions are instinctive.

Lance Murdoch
4th Feb 2009, 17:54
Ive had a machete held to my throat when my house was burgled when I was a student. It is a very frightening experience. I replayed the experience many times over in my head and I think at first comes the shock and then the anger.
737 I think you did the right thing, its not exactly easy to fight someone when they are in your car and holding a blade to your throat. The main lesson to learn is to be a bit more aware of your surroundings and as others have said look confident. These scrotes tend to pick on those that don't look confident.
You should report the incident to the police for the reasons mentioned by others.

Loose rivets
4th Feb 2009, 20:07
I was going to mention the case of Tony Featherston. He was murdered while at his holiday home in St. Kits. He and his family lived in Essex and Suffolk.

His wife was on the phone to their daughter, who was I seem to recall, in NY. They both heard the shot that killed him.

There is an aviation link. I'm fairly sure that I recall Tony saying that he was the tallest RAF pilot ever...or since 'modern' aircraft perhaps. He owned various aircraft, including the Lake Sp? anyway it was the light float plane with a single prop on top of the fuselage.

Anyway, the point is he was big, and had more than a little...what shall I say?...determination. When the guy wanted money, I just can't quite imagine him politely backing off. It just shows how quickly one's existence can be brought to an end.

This is the more descriptive link, but I'm afraid the guy that was convicted was released after an appeal.


BBC News | UK | Widow's 'relief' at St Kitts murder charge (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1414778.stm)

con-pilot
4th Feb 2009, 20:18
He owned various aircraft, including the Lake Sp? anyway it was the light float plane with a single prop on top of the fuselage.


Yes, most likely a 'Lake' amphibian. I didn't realize that St. Kitts was that bad. I had always understood that area was fairly safe. I've never been there, flown over it a lot.

I guess I've lucky, I've never had anything like nearly being killed by a mugger happen to me. Either that, or because of my size they look for easier targets, if only they knew. :ooh:

helimutt
4th Feb 2009, 21:49
:EHaving been on the receiving end of a 'blade' attack, and spending time in hospital for it, I can only suggest that, instead of thinking you're in the movies, and taking the bad guy out, just give them what they want, it's usually very little money anyway, and write it up as a life experience. Better that than carrying the multiple scars and problems around for the rest of your life.:=

Also, a long time ago, an old guy pulled a gun on me, in Cristobal, Panama, thinking he'd get my wallet. My money was to be used to ring my girlfriend back home and no way was this old bastard going to get it. I managed to kick the gun from his hand and punch him exceptionally hard in his mouth. A quick sprint later and I was a long way from that scene, LOL.
I have no idea what I was thinking at the time but I was an angry young man.
Also had an interesting run from 4 armed guys in Brasil after they tried to take our gold chains. :hmm:
A long story with some illegal issues best not mentioned.


We seem to think we're invincible when we're younger. :ok:

denis555
5th Feb 2009, 07:29
I wouldn't fight back.

My father in law had a similar situation when someone jumped into his car brandishing a knife - he fought back and tried to grab the blade resulting in some very nasty deep cuts to his hand and the loss of a lot of blood.

He was lucky in that no permenant damage was done and the assailant ran off.

In retrospect he would just hand his wallet over next time.

Loose rivets
5th Feb 2009, 08:08
Yes, such a situation can quickly degrade into trying to fend off a blade with all you've got...your hands. That's why it must never get to that stage.

In my experience (in the gym) it is notoriously difficult to hold onto a wrist. In fact, with an evenly matched opponent, I would say it was impossible.

Probably the most blood we ever saw in Judo was during the 'Take hold' mode. Sometimes, this could last for the entire 3 min contest! Two highly aggressive proponents might look for all the world like karate experts, flailing like hell to get that collar and sleeve. However, once that sleeve was skillfully twisted onto its owner's arm, it was unlikely that it could be wrenched away.

The material has to be fairly strong of course.

The original poster had a weapon, a car - with a presumably unstrapped assailant beside him. There is almost no way that he (the bad guy) could maintain the knife at the throat with the breaks slammed on...even from say, 20 mph.

Having said all this, you've got to want to do it. If you don't feel like a deadly contest, perhaps it would be better not to take the chance. You can only make that decision at the time.

And having said that, the two people that were killed in my small town, bled to death because the attacker just carried on pushing the knife in. One of them bled to death because nobody knew how to stop a punctured femoral artery. All the more tragic because he was surrounded by ordinary people who stood and watched him die.

Thankfully, these attacks are statistically rare...but to a victim, the numbers are an irrelevance.

I personally am afraid of blades. Almost a phobia...an old cut-throat razor sends all the appropriate shivers down my spine. But I'm sure that if I couldn't beat a hasty retreat, I'd sooner make a preemptive strike rather than watching my hands turned to ribbons.

helimutt
5th Feb 2009, 08:30
I did think about the thread starter having a great weapon at his disposal. I'd accelerate to about 60 then look for something to drive into, making sure no-one else was around and my seat belt was fastened. Would love to see the look on the assailants face as he glides head first through the windscreen, knife in hand!!! LMAO

Loose rivets
5th Feb 2009, 08:38
Somewhat self-defeating I would have thought.:confused:

whiz
5th Feb 2009, 08:40
The thing that worries me most about your whole sorry tale is the fact that an airline pilot (albeit 737 with RYR) smokes roll ups !! What the hell is the world coming to ? ;)

Lon More
5th Feb 2009, 08:50
I read a similar story elsewhere, advice there was also to crash the car.

But what happens when the airbags deploy if he's still holding a knife to your throat?


Blacksheep, I used to walk through Marsh Farm, past the tower blocks, late at night after taking the GF home; wouldn't want to try that now.

Don't think the cops there have changed that much. "You do not have to say anything, but anything you do say will be altered and used against you. You have the right to a good kicking .....":E

cloudhawke
5th Feb 2009, 12:20
My partner was trained in MA (Bujinkan) and once we were both on a train (in Victoria) at a station, a skinhead type came on and started bashing one student in a group of private school students. http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/eek.gif

My partner was sitting down but reached over and said "don't do that" and pulled him away by the wrist. The skinhead then started mouthing off and screaming at him but he just sat there calmly and stared at him. It turned into an eyeball to eyeball staring contest http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/worry.gif and then my partner was watching his opponent's intentions, glancing at his fist and back to his face. The situation was deteriorating and so he then started matching the fury that was being shown to him in the face, but his voice stayed calm.

After about a minute of this, said skinhead started getting spooked and stepped backwards looking fearful or confused (it was hard to tell). Immediately my partner said "Thank you". Skinhead shouted back "What did you say?!". He repeated his thank you and then the skinhead ran off and out of the train. The doors were locked because someone alerted the driver. We had to wait there for about 10-15 minutes whilst three security types tried to subdue the guy. My partner didn't want to go out to do it himself and just watched from the window. He said the danger was over. Eventually the train moved off. The most impressive thing is that he was ill with the flu that day and had badly blistered feet from several days of walking. http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/puppy_dog_eyes.gif

When the students left the train they all turned to thank him http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/smile.gif and passengers were asking about what happened. The teacher had kept out of it and made no effort to stop the skinhead. That might have been because he was over 6 feet and quite muscular, wearing a vest. My partner is about 5'10 and never got up the whole time. It was a very frightening and chaotic experience for me, I realized afterwards anything could have happened, a knife been pulled, whatever and some of the students were screaming their heads off.

My partner said the most important thing is remain calm and stay in the moment fully aware of what is going on around you. The possibility of a knife did not trouble him because he was watching the guy's hands and would have ended it immediately if he had made a move for a weapon. Anticipation is potentially dangerous he said but sensing intention is a very useful skill to have. Basically he out-psyched the guy without having to use his skills but he conveyed those skills to the guy with his eyes and manner.

It turned out that the skinhead had been insulted by one of the students getting on the train and flew into a rage. He was almost foaming at the mouth out on the platform and seemed high on some type of drug as well. http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/sowee.gif

At least it all ended well.

Blacksheep
5th Feb 2009, 12:59
When in a dodgy district, keep your car doors locked and don't talk to strangers. If a situation develops, imitate the invincible Rincewind. Stay calm and at the first opportunity, run like hell.

candoo
5th Feb 2009, 14:16
I took a wrong turn once driving through downtown Newark :eek::eek::eek:

Some of the most unapproachable looking people on planet earth. The groups of substance abusers were hassling any outsider even in their cars.

Didn't do it again.

VFE
5th Feb 2009, 15:59
Had three scumbags attempt to mug me once. I screamed, shouted, threw my fists wildly and basically, not to put too fine a point on it - went beserk... they all backed off. This incidentally, is a recognised SAS tactic gleened from the Discovery Channel! You see, if I run at you screaming and shouting you are gonna run away or shit yourself. Either way it has the desired affect in a mugging scenario.

Another good tip when frequenting 'dodgy' areas is to have a pocket full of change to throw on the floor before you run like fook... that'll throw 'em off the scent for a few precious seconds too...

One other time near New Yawk some crazy yank pulled out a Crocodile Dundee stylie knifeo on me as I quietly perused a Mini Cooper sales forecourt. As you can imagine, this was most unexpected so one opted for the run like fook option into a friends waiting car and sped orff... flicking the V's as we went 'cause... well... we're Brits and it's the done thing in such circumstances. :)

VFE.