City Flyer ATR 72/42

[Stephen John]

Can anyone tell me if the ATR 72/42 aircraft used by CityFlyer on the Gatwick / Guernsey route are owned or leased by the company?

Thanks

[blackbox]

WHY?

Why would you want to know that sort of info??

[Stephen John]

Blackbox

Thanks for your reply to my request re CF ATR equipment

As you will see from my profile I live in Guernsey. You will be aware that slot allocation at Gatwick is tight. We are concerned with keeping the link with Gatwick. We are also in hot debate about whether the GCI runaway should be extended to take Embraer 145 type aircraft.

If the ATRs are leased then their repalcemant by small jets may put our link with Gatwick into the realms of uncertainty

Both Jersey and Guernsey have lost their LHR links in the recent past.

Do you have an answer to my original question?

Thanks

By the way I am not a journalist

[This message has been edited by Stephen John (edited 01 December 2000).]

[Jet A1]

One - Nil to Mr John !!

About time some of you smart ar$es got knocked down a notch or two !!

[This message has been edited by Jet A1 (edited 02 December 2000).]

[Sand Spider]

SJ: They are all leased. However, it's purely academic because they are all going. The idea is to phase them out gradually by 2003 but my understanding is that if Rod gets his way they will be gone by Xmas 01. He is not a TP fan and thinks that they are not in keeping with BA's corporate image.

It's always difficult to guage how much business you are not getting by operating TP's...until you put a jet service on the route and see the loads go up!

However, I don't buy your response to BB. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt as the information I have supplied is no secret. Both Jersey and Guernsey accept 146's so there is no reason they shouldn't accept EMB's with the existing runways.

The reason you've lost Heathrow is very simple: Pure economics. The slots are very valuable - especially at LHR - the loads were not there. The residents - especially Jersey - THINK they have a right to a choice but they don't want to pay for that choice. If you guys want a LHR service put your money where your mouth is and fund a service; God knows there's enough money between the two islands to do it! They shouldn't expect us to absorb the losses so that we can offer wealthy residents of some rocks the prestige of flying to the Grown-ups Airport!

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Common sense is the least common of all the senses.

[Stephen John]

Sand Spider

Thank you for your information

I am intrigued that you say you don't entirely buy my reasons for asking for this non confidential information. Why do you think I asked for it?

I bothered to give my reasons and they are as stated.

By the way not everyone in Guernsey is a millionare. Most people are ordinary folk, the type who keep people like yourself in a job by flying in the aircraft you fly.

Still thanks for the reply

[bean]

Sand Spider. Like Mr. John i live in the Channel Islands, in my case Jersey. It may surprise you to know that i too am not a millionaire, far from it.
Further factual errors contained in your post are as follows:-
1. Loads on JER LHR Were always fairly high, Yields however in common with the rest of the BA Network were not.
2. Air UK Were making profits on GCI LHR Using the right type of aircraft (146) They pulled out of GCI & sold the slots in keeping with KLM UK'S Policy of not flying to anywhere except Amsterdam Disgracefully leaving the people of Guernsey high & dry. 3.Understandably after what BA have just done there is a certain amount of paranoia in both Islands about which Airline/Route will go next.I dont't know Mr John, but his question is representative of this & quite reasonable, yet he is greeted with equal paranoia about his being a journalist.
4. The Embraer 145 would be extremely payload limited ot of Guernsey's quite short runway., Should "Raw Data" be reading this perhaps he could repost the data on JEA's Analysis of the 145 for operation on GCI SOU.
5. On the subject of we millionaires not wanting to pay the appropriate fares. A colleague of mine without internet access asked me to check the fare between Jersey on Newcastle during the Xmas period wanting to go home & visit family. £442 was the cheapest i found on the BA Website. I flew to the west coast of the USA & back cheaper than this recently. Unlike people in the UK we need good air & sea links it' quite claustrophobic being stuck on a rock.

[Mooney]

Stephen John,

I was in Guernsey last week- and looked over the proposed airport plans. They look super! Not only that but essential.

[Sand Spider]

SJ: No didn't think you were a journo just a misconception on my part about the capabilities of the EMB and therefore the logic of having to extend a runway.

bean: I may too have had some misconceptions about loads etc. but not entirely, I assure you. I have enough friends in BA to know that the loads you speak of were not all year round and, indeed, taken as an average over a year the figures were far from startling bearing in mind the elevated LHR costs.

Also, you rant and rave about KLM and BA's decision to cease profitable operations thereby depriving you of a 'much needed' connection to the outside world. In case you haven't realised the world does not revolve around the Channel Islands; it does not owe you anything. If the service does not fit in with the big picture of companywide operations and restructuring then it's just tough titty. You have LGW and that should be enough. The residents should lay down this elitist attitude and be thankfull they don't have to row all the way to the mainland.

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Common sense is the least common of all the senses.

[Stephen John]

Sand Piper

I am so sorry that you have a problem with the Channel Islands i.e your remark about
we can offer wealthy residents of some rocks the prestige of flying to the Grown-ups Airport" and "The residents should lay down this elitist attitude and be thankful they don't have to row all the way to the mainland"

All of this in response to a simple question "Do City Flyer own or lease the ATRs"

Is there something Bean or myself can do to rectify this rather sad image you have of the isalnders? We would like to help.

[Sand Spider]

SJ: actually I have nothing against GCI. Indeed, I wish we were handled everywhere with the professionalism and efficiency displayed by the staff at GCI airport. A beautiful island on which I would give my right bo!!ock to live on instead of this madhouse called London. JSY is quite another matter, however. The chasm between the attitudes on both islands (handling wise) is unbelievable.

Still, despite the apparent tone of my posts I do not hold the attitude of the handlers in JSY against the whole population. This subject has been thrashed out before and I've heard it time and time again. Don't be fooled by my registration date, this is an alter ego.

I think I answered your question and maybe threw in a pebble or two to see the ripples. I just get the impression that a few of you think that you have a god-given right to a LHR service, which I find ludicrous. Maybe not you. Indeed you only mentioned that it had been withdrawn without casting any aspersions. I apologise for any offence and withdraw the 'rock comment' and tone.

Presently we use RJ's on both services and I think that will continue, but my instinct is that Rod will do away with the ATR ASAP.

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Common sense is the least common of all the senses.

[arrow2]

I am just wondering why there continues to be an obsession with LHR over LGW?

I use LGW to GCI and back once or twice a month on CFE and there is also a Brit European service. Adequate choice and loads always seem to be high on the CFE ATRs. So much easier to park and get to/from LGW as well.

arrow 2

[Stephen John]

LHR has a greater choice of airlines and onward destinations for the ordinary Channel Island folk going on holiday etc

A direct service saves a half day treck from LGW to LHR (bus plus safety margin)