I have seen enough! Censor this site or close it!

[Stopthink]

Danny you have a very dangerous hobby!

Despite what other replies are offered, it is clear that this site is a potential security risk.
However slight that risk is must be acted upon.

I sit in amazement and watch BAA security officers discuss what steps they are taking. And also sit shocked, witnesing colleagues debate steps that are being taken in airlines.

We all know that there can never be 100%security - why on why are we insistant on telling interested parties where weaknesses are?????????

Danny why do you not close this site to the general public and insist upon full identification upon sign up? You only have to reveal peoples identities if a legal or authority approach is made to you for that information. People can then continue to debate airline issues in privacy, relatively anonymously and know that they will not be feeding any sinister organisations with information.
It would also ensure that the topics are generally cleaned up. There would be a lot less slander as well as people would have be sure that they can substantiate their claims about people or organisations.
Surely it would protect you as well Danny. How you have avoided legal action so is a mystery to me.

[Joystroker]

Spot on StopThink! I think there is a growing number of people that think this site is too much to bear any longer.

I have it on very good authority that several 'serious' complaints have been passed to security and authority bodies today regarding PPRuNe.

Everyone should really think about what they are saying here as I am sure it will be investigated. If you think this site is anonymous then just ask yourself how they capture paedophiles who download porn and the like!

[rustbucket732]

yawn

[rob_frost]

We have the right to free speech. If some one chooses to give out info on security arrangments, then it is their problem. A pilot is not going to give away fatal flaws in the aircraft so that terrosists have a better chance of killing him.

If you tighten this forum up, the potential terrorist will still get the info. There are plenty of ways. These terrorists got around the CIA and the FBI. Do you think a some small registration feature would have stopped them? I think not.

Rob

[Self Loading Freight]

If you really thought Pprune was a security risk, then shouting the fact on the very forum would surely by your own lights be an act of some stupidity -- unless you've already been in contact with Danny, made specific allegations that you can back up, and not got anywhere.

Is this the case?

It's at times like this that Pprune really comes into its own. Crying wolf is remarkably unhelpful.

R

[spannerhead]

Rob_frost
"We have the right to free speech. If some one chooses to give out info on security arrangments, then it is their problem."

THEIR PROBLEM...If you worked in this industry it could be your problem. Daft comments in a public forum IS a security risk. I must admit that I have learn't a lot of things that I didn't know from comments on pprune and I have been working at major international airports all my working life.

[Capt PPRuNe]

Having just arrived back after operating one of the first flights from the UK to the USA since they reopened the airspace and having had a view of the reshaped skyline of Manhatten both on the way in and out I have not had much chance to review the constents of the forums.

I am amazed though at the ignorance of some people on what constitutes sensitive (but generally available in the public domain) information. One thing that you should consider before you try and accuse PPRuNe of being a leaky source of security information is that if someone has claimed to be a BAA security employee and is discussing anything that is sensitive, what makes you so sure that this person isn't also talking about this information down the pub or wherever. At least BAA can try and find out who is leaking the information if they REALISE that someone is actually doing so in the first place.

This is a double edged sword and we have never let anyone discuss issues that are not in the public domain. There is a typical knee jerk reaction going round at the moment and no doubt there are going to be big changes to the way we, as airline pilots and others, work in the future but to watch some of the comments being made both on these forums and also by private email shows a lack of appreciation on what is important and what isn't.

Would you rather know that your secret has been compromised or go about in ignorance believing that all is well. A very recent, tragic, horrific event has shown that ignorance is a very dangerous thing, especially when it comes to intelligence services.

Now this thread is being moved to Aircrew Notices where it belongs.

[ 17 September 2001: Message edited by: Capt PPRuNe ]

[Mr Chips]

If I may add my bit Captain...

Stopthink suggest full identification to join/read the site. An interesting idea. perhaps only let pilots in and keep the terrorists out - except in this case the terrorists had pilots licences...right, blows that idea out then, doesn't it!

[Genghis the Engineer]

Oh come on.

I have not quite frankly seen any discussion on here which (a) is of any significant help to a terrorist, or (b) Isn't essentially just a more intelligent variant on what I've seen or heard on the BBC.

I value free speech, that is why I continue to live in the UK, where it is valued (as, I hasten to add, it is in many other countries). The bastards who killed themselves and many others last week think we should live in a Taliban-like regime. Well, their closed house regime kills far more people from mismanagement and religious Kangaroo courts in Afghanistan than this or any other act of terrorism ever could. We must allow people to say what they want (even the mad Mullahs), just keep an eye on the people who say things that worry us in case they start acting upon them. But censorship is the wrong answer, it just makes the nutters harder to spot in time, and devalues our own prized way of life.

G

[Sir Algernon Scruggs]

Well, well, well. My contacts in a certain covert department have passed me more information relevant to this little outburst. Stopthink is none other than the same person who tried to get PPrune closed earlier last week. There is a copy of his message to all the various deprtments and ministers in the thread Censorship - Please stop Airline Security SOP's being posted on this site. (http://www.pprune.org/cgibin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=015562) and a message from myself where I expose his previous misdemeanours. This appears to be an attempt to undermine PPrune by someone who has a certain grudge against it for exposing some of his shortcomings.

Tut, tut. Must be very careful if you want to involve governmental departments in shennanigans like this.

[ 22 September 2001: Message edited by: Sir Algernon Scruggs ]

[PPRuNe Pop]

Oh Stop Think, how very silly of you! Once exposed by the infamous Sir Algernon, it is like being run over by a tank. Best you withdraw into your little fantasy world - don't you think - Stop Think? :D

Or you can, of course, refute what he says! ;)

[Velvet]

Of course the general public shouldn't know about what goes on in aviation - or have I missed something about who it is who pays for tickets which are the raison detre for most airlines - yes, passengers.

Of course we should keep it only for those who are passed as having security clearance, or did I miss something about several spies being inside Government Departments

Of course we should keep out any who don't fit, or aren't approved of, or don't have some kind of clearance, or have I missed something here about freedom and democracy.

You know what Stopthink, you are as dangerous to our liberties and freedom as any terrorist - for you would do it 'for our own good', but it would result in the same end.

Joystroker - don't you think the authorities have bigger problems than investigating thousands of Pruners in Australia, New Zealand, Asia, Africa and Europe as well as US and UK for stating their opinions.

I note that neither you nor stopthink have been on this site long - odd that you think you can tell Danny how he should run this site, but that's the nature of freedom of speech - even people like you are allowed to say what you think. Strange that neither of you think you should be silenced.

[ 22 September 2001: Message edited by: Velvet ]

[harmony]

I take it the Military Aircrew section is being vetted by the moderators of this site... As only good humour seem`s to appear..
This is the only area that "espionage" could be used... And I suspect only by the good old British press. http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/monkes.gif

H

[ 23 September 2001: Message edited by: harmony ]

[Genghis the Engineer]

One cannot hope to bribe or twist
Thank God !, the British Journalist
But seeing what the man will do, unbribed
There's no occasion to.