Viking Airlines

[Button-pusher]

Quote:
- 99% of all seats are bought by kiss
If 99% of all seats are no longer paid for by KISS, what does that tell you ? You don't have to be a chartered accountant to work that one out !

Another complicating factor is that VIKING do not have an ATOL licence. Do you really think that travel agents are going to book with them ? If the airline fails, the travel agents are out of pocket, as the CAA will only cover ATOL protected packages.

I hope they will stay in business, for the passenger's sake. But I have a feeling we will see more crocodile tears before long.
i agree completely, now you put it like that, tour operators wont touch them, unless they get hold of an atol license, but that's a lengthy process in itself!

[VOM1T]

Dear mathers_wales_uk
I think you may have misread the thread I started last week, there is a world of difference between heading a thread

"Pegasus airlines scheduled airline failure insurance withdrawn this morning. "

Followed by: "Any ideas why ? I thought Pegasus was one of the better, more profitable turkish airlines."

and "Viking Airlines gone bust?"

just to put the record straight and add my commiserations to those colleagues chosen for the chop by the beleagured Viking management.

[Facts R Us]

Please, people... stop playing with people's jobs. Kiss DO/DID NOT buy 99% of seats on VIK / VKH.

VIK AB will still operate 6 Aircraft (will reduce by 3), VKH Hellas will still operate 3.

VIK AB has 1 Aircraft on healthy lease in France, 1 other flies a full enthnic line, 2 will remain on other full charter for customers like Mark Warner / Gambia Experience, 1 B733 leased to Viking Hellas, and 1 of the B733's was planned into early maintenance in the next 2 weeks anyway, that's the 6!

VKH Hellas has 1 Aircraft on healthy lease in France, 1 Aircraft (owned) that flies a 4 day a week ethnic line and the other two operate for various Swiss / German Tour operators.

So lets get the facts before trying to put 300 people out of work shall we???

[dalmation67]

Have just spoken to an ex colleague who works for Viking at manchester. Strangely enough and coincidentally last week some of the flight prefixes for the UK operation were changed from VIK to VKH, (Viking Helas), which is the greek part of the Viking operation.

Now Kiss Flights has gone bust, the 3 Canadian Sunwing Aircraft that were operating Kiss Flights with the VIK Flight Prefixes are being sent back immediately.

Think the writing is pretty much on the wall for the UK Operation, and the Central European operation will continue and yet again will be protected just like the XL Operation, where XL Uk went down and XLF and XL Germany continued.:=

Good old PW does it again!!

[Button-pusher]

the only flights kiss do not have a +90% allocation is the kalamata and preveza flights, which are mark warner and Olympic respectively.

All other flights from Manchester are Kiss, these include Sharm el Shiek, Rhodes, Las Palmas, Zakynthos, Heraklion, Kos, Corfu, Athens etc..

and my jobs on the line so im not messing about.



Have just spoken to an ex colleague who works for Viking at manchester. Strangely enough and coincidentally last week all the flight prefixes for the UK operation were changed from VIK to VKH, (Viking Helas), which is the greek part of the Viking operation.



thats wrong, both perfixes are still used today, both was simultaneously used from the past 6 weeks as per viking directive.

[mathers_wales_uk]

What happened then and is happening again now is that people are saying that Viking are going bust. If they do then i for one will be sorry to see them go.

Are viking airways still operational? Yes they are

Same as last week when it was asked if either pegasus or viking had gone bust due to the airline failure insurance being withdrawn.

All that is needed to be done is to check the airline website in question and if it is down or have a press release stating that it has ceased trading then it has done. Why can't people check the CAA website instead of speculating and causing further negative impact to the airlines.

I would suggest a ban on discussion of Viking airlines unless people can provide hard facts

[dalmation67]

Mather Wales

Here's a fact....crew at Viking been told an announcement about the UK Operation will be made at 1800L tomorrow.

CAA have announced that flights for Kiss will operate until 1800 Hrs tomorrow after that no more........

Work that one out!!!:D

[Facts R Us]

Sorry, but you are asking for FACTS, so I will give them (same as my post above).

Dalmation - Flight number change last week, that is NOT true. 3 Sunwing Aircraft to be returned were operating on VIK flight numbers, again NOT true, 2 were, 1 wasn't. 3 Aircraft being sent back immediately, again NOT true. FYI, the UK operation will still have 5 based Aircraft.

Button - All other flights ex MAN are Kiss, sorry, again not true. There are 2 Aircraft based in MAN, one as you mentioned, the other operates (and will continue to) NO Kiss flights at all.

Mathers - a ban on talk on Viking unless they have FACTS would go down a treat, may even stop a few hundered from losing their jobs because of the rubbish written on here...

[Facts R Us]

Dalmation - nothing needs working out, the announcements are out, all seem to have found their way on here already...

The CAA have not stated that all flights will operate till 1800 tomorrow, then no more, the CAA have in fact stated that they will carry all Kiss passenger OUTBOUND until 1800 tomorrow and then there will be no more Kiss passengers allowed to travel OUT. They have also stated that they will carry all pax INBOUND for at least 7 days (but I dont think that has hit you frontline gossip / know-all's just yet).

Spin me a few more rumours and i'll answer those for you as well if you like...?

[mathers_wales_uk]

Viking Fact

While one of Viking’s tour operating customers, Flight Options, (Kiss Flights) has unfortunately gone into administration, Viking is financially healthy and is set to continue its normal UK operations.

Full article & source Viking Airlines (http://www.flyviking.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=pubDsp.dspNews)

Kiss Flights Fact

London-based travel company Flight Options Limited, trading principally as Kiss Flights, ceased trading this evening, and the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) has stepped in to protect holidaymakers.

Advice for Flight Options / Kiss Flights customers with flights leaving the UK before 1800 BST on Wednesday 18 August 2010

These flights will operate as planned, and passengers should go to the airport and check in as normal.

Full article & source Civil Aviation Authority (http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=1052&pagetype=90&pageid=11588)

Everything else is just rumour and speculation which will and is having a negative impact.

[Button-pusher]

Button - All other flights ex MAN are Kiss, sorry, again not true. There are 2 Aircraft based in MAN, one as you mentioned, the other operates (and will continue to) NO Kiss flights at all.

not sure where you get that from....

The second based aircraft at MAN doesnt just operate for operators other than kiss, thats utter rubbish!viking dont just allocate an aircraft for certain operators it goes on whats available....

[dalmation67]

Erm....and your point is??

Didn't I post no flights for Kiss will operate after 1800L tomorrow????:confused:

Let's hold back with the flippent comments and see what happens..... being a casualty of XL myself I don't need you to explain anything to me....... let's just say been there experienced that!! :ugh:

Oh and before I get more abuse....we were told for months XL was financially healthy and given the usual spin by Directors and think back to what happened on the 12th SEPT 2008!!!:mad:

[Button-pusher]

you dont need to prove anything to anyone :) this forum is riddled with armchair insider,

button.

[dalmation67]

Button...I'm not trying to prove anything to anyone....

I lost my job in Sept 2008 after XL and wouldn't wish that on anyone,

73,000 holidaymakers affected by this awful announcement.

I really genuinely hope it works out ok for you and all the crew, however PW who is behind this operation doesn't exactly have the best track record and for the benefit of Facts R Us and Mathers Wales....THAT IS A FACT!!!

[mathers_wales_uk]

My point is you are mixing fact with rumour.

What i have posted is fact from the Civil Aviation Authority and Viking Airlines. What you are posting is hear say and rumour.

Yes this is a rumour network and as somone who has experienced this in the past with XL i am actually dissapointed that you are so blind to see that the rumours you are posting are having a negative impact on an airline.

Our aviation industry is in such a fragile state and customer confidence will be on an all time low since the announcement of a third company going into administration this month.

Goldtrail
Sun4U
Kiss Flights

Unless you have shares in cruises, railways or buses then shouldn't you be showing your support to the airlines in this difficult time. If you have any proper facts that proves the official statement released by viking airlines to be incorrect and want to name your sources i suggest you keep your negative comments to yourself.

This is for the sake of all Viking, catering, ground handling, airport and many more staff that would loose their jobs.

[Affretage]

This is for the sake of all Viking, catering, ground handling, airport and many more staff that would loose their jobs.

WRONG - people will still want to go on holiday. All it means that crew, handlers, catering etc will be working for another airline flying these same passengers.

Despite the recession there is still overcapacity in the market. What we are seeing right now is consolidation, as has happened all over Europe.

It is just a shame that the actions and business practices of PW will make it very difficult for any independant charter airline to flourish in the UK given that consumer confidence in the independent sector has just been shattered again. This is XL all over again !!

My guess is that holiday makers will either stay at home in 2011 or choose to book with one of the big two.

[Trash_Hauler]

And exactly WHEN should we start the deathwatch for Viking?

[sam dilly]

As I said on this forum a few weeks ago.....
Noel has had a lucky escape.
lets hope that his companies are not too badly hit.

[greatoaks]

Anyone would think that this unfortunate event just leaves a market with no consumer choice.

When it reality it will hopefully strengthen the positions of Monarch and Jet2.

People will still hunt out the best deals and these travel company failures are soon forgotten.

Hopefully some of the good people affected by this will find jobs with the other carriers.

I speak as someone who was stranded abroad by the collapse of XL and although this was a challenging time it has not detered me from still using alternatives to the 'big 2'

[fly-half]

Hopefully we will find jobs with other carriers?!

Well done, boxed ticked showing empathy to the employees. Unfortunately it's not as straight forward as you may think, trying to find another flying job, especially if you're a first officer!

I was with XL and I've been with Viking for 18 months - and I was totally unemployed for the 7 months inbetween. Please can everyone be careful about what you write on here?

[mathers_wales_uk]

No-one will step on the 11th hour to provide the holidays to passengers instead of kiss flights.

IF a prticular flight was for Kiss flights only then it will be cancelled after the given period stated by the CAA.

So with no replacement especially at short notice and as stated over capacity then it's simple no planes means no jobs for Crew, Handling agents, cleaners etc. It may not be significant enough at individual airports for some of you to care.

But when you add the total number together it will make a difference. Now for sombody to say it will only effect the crew needs to really wake up and smell the coffee.

So please stop spreading the crap and start thinking about others before you all want to spread gossip which can ruin an airline and so many jobs. So as i said before. If you haven't got anything factual to say then please keep it to yourself unless you can back it up with a reliable source.

[Button-pusher]

-Man-rho cancelled this morning.
-aircraft ceased by caa
-man-fua operating as normal
-man-ath operating as normal


That's the latest.

[Facts R Us]

Button - nothing to see here...

-Man-rho cancelled this morning - in agreement with the CAA, you'll be pleased to know that RHO-MAN will operate though.
-aircraft ceased by caa - what is this supposed to mean?
-man-fua operating as normal - in agreement with the CAA.
-man-ath operating as normal - in agreement with the CAA.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<<-aircraft ceased by caa>>>

???

[barry lloyd]

Button - nothing to see here...

-Man-rho cancelled this morning - in agreement with the CAA, you'll be pleased to know that RHO-MAN will operate though.
-aircraft ceased by caa - what is this supposed to mean?
-man-fua operating as normal - in agreement with the CAA.
-man-ath operating as normal - in agreement with the CAA.

I think BP means seized rather than ceased. Having just read through this thread, it seems that grammar is not a strong point amongst some of the posters, which in my experience at least, confuses the picture even further.

[Button-pusher]

Kiss system completely gone!

[excrab]

The CAA can't "take an aircraft from Viking and operate it to Rhodes". Who would crew it? What engineers would service it? Who would insure it? If it is operating back from RHO whos AOC would it fly on?

Do you mean the aircraft was operated empty to RHO by Viking at the request of the CAA to bring passengers back? - although that doesn't agree with the information on the CAA website which says that all Kiss flights passengers booked on flights up until 1800 today would travel out as booked I suspect it is more likely.

[xraydice]

Oh dear !
so many knowing so little and posting so much,just as well its a rumour network.
Out of all the posts on this (and other Viking threads ) there is little factual information, so in the tabloid style of "no news, make something up then" we have all this speculation. The are a couple of posters here who have a handle on the facts to date.

Oh BTW I was with VIK yesterday 121 & 323,to the naysayers horror I can report we left LGW a litte ahead of time took off, flew and landed HER neat turn round and repeated flight home, only thing of note was angry pax with too much cabin baggage ( scored me a new jar of kenco coffee and a Robert Ludlum thriller !) I digress,
Careless talk costs jobs, personaly I would stand back and wait untill this evening.


Tomorrow I fly with ******* I wont name them ,just incase, it could happen to any one .

[Facts R Us]

Button - "I've jut got into work.... The caa took the aircraft from Viking and operated it out empty to Rhodes....."

Please, please stop talking rubbish, the CAA did not take a Viking Aircraft for this flight, VIK are not operating this sector RHO-MAN as it has been sub chartered due to SE-RHT being AOG due to fuselage damage in GOT.

PLEASE WILL YOU GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT BEFORE POSTING.:ugh:

[Button-pusher]

Yea sorry guys. That's what I mean Viking operating for caa.

[Facts R Us]

Just for further clarification, ALL VIK and VKH Aircraft are flying today with the exception of SE-RHT which is AOG in GOT.

No aircraft have been 'ceased' or in fact 'seized' at any airport anywhere.

As far as both airlines are concerned it is 'operations normal'.

[Thrush]

So, Phil Wyatt aka Black Pearl Investments and brother Dim Jim have done it again.

BUT from a professional pilot's point of view they (Viking) employ quite a lot of British pilots at a time when the employment market is pretty bloody quiet, so hat's off to them for that, so long may Viking exist. Send back the Canadians - they should not be over here anyway when so many UK pilots are out of work or forced by circumstances to work in deserts n dumps for Flydubai or Arik. The same goes for ALL non-EU nationals.

I hear on the grapevine the Sunwing crews did not even have UK work permits and were just winging it anyway. Immigration please take note. These sorts of arrangements are crap for our people and should be stamped on. Hard. Sorry Canadians, we don't like to see anyone out of work, but we have to look after our own first.

Good luck Viking. We look forward to seeing you around for years to come - at least your crews are EU!! Concentrate on the business using your own a/c and all those ex XL, BMI and SAS guys you have. There is a wealth of talent there and such a shame Vik got tied in with the Sunwing operation.

[Jonty]

As far as both airlines are concerned it is 'operations normal'.

I think thats what worries most of us.

[Button-pusher]

I just have a feeing things will turn out good for us.

[Wreckdiver]

Waiting to see what develops with Viking as I have a group of 11 divers flying to the Red Sea in October with them. I am expecting to see Viking run into trouble shortly. They have lost business from Kiss and reports like these: Viking Airlines Customer Reviews - SKYTRAX (http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/viking-3.htm) :eek: don't instill much confidence in Viking.

Steve

[excrab]

Thrush,

The sunwings deal is a two way street. Rumour (take note of that word please) is that up to 100 EU crews (that is 200 pilots) are needed by Sunwings this winter - being the peak holiday period in Canada. Those pilots will be sourced from (possibly among other companies) TUI and Viking. In the case of Viking they also take two 737-800s which in the UK winter season would be a drain on the company when work in Europe is slack - they also take some 737s from TUI but I am unsure of how many.

This probably ruffles the feathers of some Canadian pilots, as it does yours, but the result is to give year round employment for pilots from both sides of the Atlantic who might otherwise find themselves out of work in the UK winter/Canadian summer.

It also gives Viking flexibility. Rumour (that word again) is that the three aircraft referred to on the Viking airlines website to be grounded are the Sunwings aircraft which will be returned to Canada two months earlier than planned, thus possibly avoiding job losses amongst Vikings permanent crews.

As the Canadian pilots are employed by Sunwings, which is a Canadian company, they may not need work permits as they are not employed or paid in the EU.

[ReadyToGo]

NCL-RHO appears to be operating today as normal (nothing to the contrary on the airport website).
A quick glance over the NCL schedule implies that Kiss also had seats on a few flights operated by Saga Airways of Turkey, I presume these will be for the chop as well? Did they use any other carriers from other airports in the UK?

My thoughts go out to anyone feeling insecure over this whole situation, never good when hard earned holidays are looking in doubt, not to mention people's careers. I really can't believe people can be wishing this airline's collapse, and I really hope that these rumours are exposed as just that. Regardless of bitterness towards Directors et al, don't forget that its the everyday gfolk that suffer IF an airline collapses. Its the ground staff, its the crews, its the passengers who have looked forward to their week in the sun etc etc.



RTG!

[Jamie2k9]

Ryanair have launched a resure fare of £69 (one way taxes included but excluding baggage fees)

Luton - Lanzarote
Stansted - Lanzarote
Liverpool - Lanzarote & Tenerife
Glasgow PIK - Alicante, Faro, Gran Canaria, Lanzarote, Malaga & Tenerife

Passengers must have a book ref.

News : ?Kiss Good Bye to High Fares? (http://www.ryanair.com/ie/news/it-s-kiss-good-bye-to-high-fares-as-kiss-flights-go-bust)

[barry lloyd]

Ryanair have launched a resure fare of £69

Can you please explain to me what a resure fare is?

[carlrsymington]

looks like Barry's sarcasm mode = ON

but if not ...looks like a typo :*
also the flights are from Lanzarote \ Tenerife -> UK
click on the link in the previous comment
but more importantly...
Ryanair trying to sink more of their rivals with comments?
“Ryanair advises all passengers to book only with financially stable airlines. By booking with Ryanair passengers will secure the guaranteed lowest fares and can be sure that Ryanair will still be flying when their flight date arrives. With over €3billion in cash Ryanair is one of the most financially robust airlines in Europe.”

[oliversarmy]

Thrush,

"So, Phil Wyatt aka Black Pearl Investments and brother Dim Jim have done it again."

"BUT from a professional pilot's point of view"

Insulting a colleague isnt what I would call the comments from a "professional" (pilot) however I digress.

Firstly the Sunwing crews do indeed have work permits, Viking worked extensively with the UK Border Agency to ensure that EVERY crew member operating here in the UK did so legitimately, regardless of whether they were here for a day, a week or for months at a time.

With regards to your issues with Canadian crews operating here in the Europe/UK - this isnt unique to Viking and has been and is being done by numerous other UK and European airlines, including the big two groups of TOM and TCX, if only the brits travelled as well !!

End of rant to Thrush but moving on in general.....

The debate as to whether Viking will "survive", I find the debate quite unhealthy and goulish, your words whether spoken or written are obviously your own point of view but can only go to damage the company in the long term, what suppliers are you discouraging from working with Viking? how many staff are now concerned about their future? and ultimately how many fare paying passengers reading this will not book with Viking just because of your hearsay and gossip.

Very few people on these forum's know the true position of Viking which is exactly why nobody was on here predicting the demise of Kiss, Goldtrail, Sun4U, let alone the numerous airline failures in the last few years.

I think if we all put as much effort into supporting this industry (industry not airline) that is on its knees the sooner it can get back to being a leading force in Worldwide and European aviation and not a second rate industry financed outside of its home country.

End.

OA

[Facts R Us]

Button - please will you STOP posting.

Just so you are aware, VIK AB head office is in ARN, and VKH head office in ATH so if they are going for 'crunch meetings' they should be on the VIK689 tomorrow to ARN...

Who is Mark? Whoever he is, he certainly isn't a Director.

Your posts are causing more negative comments than positive. I have now bitten my tounge long enough... please will you "shut up" for the sake of all those that are employed by Viking (including yourself it appears).

As already said, there is a plan in place which will work providing people like you dont keep on 'fuelling the fire' with negative / unconstructive / unfactual comments.

[xraydice]

Button-pusher;

Your posts are causing more negative comments than positive. I have now bitten my tounge long enough... please will you "shut up" for the sake of all those that are employed by Viking (including yourself it appears).

As already said, there is a plan in place which will work providing people like you dont keep on 'fuelling the fire' with negative / unconstructive / unfactual comments. Seconded.
If you are a Viking please consider that you may be doing more harm than good .

Ps I see I have been "penciled in" for the 445 to Ace on the 12th, my employer obviously has faith .

[Northern Hero]

Thrush,

BUT from a professional pilot's point of view they (Viking) employ quite a lot of British pilots at a time when the employment market is pretty bloody quiet, so hat's off to them for that, so long may Viking exist. Send back the Canadians

For every two Canadian Sunwing pilots there are five BRITISH Cabin Crew. Do you want to see them out of work? Please don't be so bl*%dy selfish :mad:

Viking is a team effort, whether it's check-in staff, loaders, caterers, pilots, admin or cabin crew, any reduction to the fleet size will affect a large number of people.
Rant over.

[Todders]

Are there no MODS on this forum anymore???

Since when has a title like the one on this thread done anyone an once of good??

Seriously people.... For those employed with viking frankly wise up... do you honestly believe posting the utter rot that gets banded around the galley on a public forum is in anyway a good idea??? If you're, in my opinion wrongly, that worried about your job use your typing hands to get your CV up to date and send it out rather than fueling the fire and spreading the unfounded rubbish that if not checked would have the ability to end your career.

Rant over i gotta get to bed have to go fly tomorrow...:D

[mathers_wales_uk]

Well said Todders

[A and C]

I note with interest that this Viking bust thread has been running since 01 Feb 2009.

It uninformed rubbish then and apart from the odd gem is now, I have no doubt that with the demise of Goldtrail & Kiss things will get tough for a small airline like Viking, but the rubbish that has been posted above if seen by the general public via a search engine is likely to make them think twice about using any small airline.

What this thread is doing is pushing the public towards the likes of Ryanair, do you guys realy want the likes of MOL to have his foot on the windpipe of aircrew employment? what would that do to the T's & C's ?

To the public I would say always use a credit (not debit) card to book any airline ticket and use the airline that best meets your needs, that way you get the product that you want and your money is safe.

[3REDS]

I assume some people on here will be thinking that I am jumping with joy at this latest news regarding Kiss Flights and Viking Airlines being a former XL pilot but I am not.

I am however very angry at how criminals like Phil Wyatt et al can do this twice in as many years. Surely questions now need to be asked at the highest level.

I'm surprised that nobody else has noticed that it's all very convenient to go bust at the busiest and the most profitable time of year after thousands if not tens of thousands of deposits have been paid.
No point going bust in the winter with just a couple of hundred deposits in the bank BUT this is exactly the time you would expect a company to go bust when cash flow is very tight and not at its busiest time of year unless foul play is involved.

I don't care about posting what some would deem negative points on here to try and prevent a self-fulfilling prophecy as I truly beleive that if the public had been made aware of the links between XL Airways and Viking Airways that this airline would have died long ago. Oh and just for the record so did Phil Wyatt when he decided to take the SECRET 50% stake in Viking just six months after the collapse of XL.

Oh and the ex XL guys and gals who are now with Viking I'm ashamed to say that I really don't have any sympathy for you (once bitten twice shy and all that) the people that I have a great deal of sympathy for are the poor buggers that Wyatt et al have screwed out of yet ANOTHER holiday.

For those that are not aware of the facts:

Viking Airways = Re birth of XL Airways bankrupt Sept 2008
Kiss Flights = Re birth of Freedom Flights bankrupt Sept 2008

I suspect very soon we will all be seeing Wyatt crying on TV about how it was everbody elses fault that Viking is no more, I just hope that this time he's taken some acting lesson for this years upcoming performance.

Never mind... for all you Wyatt fans out there he will be back next year you can count on that.

In fact I think we should have a little competition and lighten the mood in here a little..... who can guess what Wyatt will call his airline next year.... I'll start,
Kiss your money goodbye into my XL bank account airways:E

[hostiegirl]

3REDS couldnt have put it better myself:ok:. As a former xl employee I feel it is disgusting what Wyatt and co have done yet again they should be banned from coming near any airline in the future:mad:

I do however feel very sorry for the employees who only really went there as missed aviation and it was a job based in the uk which were far and few between at the time (i'm talking on behalf of cabin crew).
It's the travelling public who want a cheap as chips holiday who then act surprised when it all goes wrong, Viking are just one of many they are not the first and will not be the last.

[GROUNDHOG]

I believe Viking fly to Porto Santo every Wednesday from LGW, I want to get down there, anyone know who the charterer/sharers are please?

[airhumberside]

Porto Santo flights are for Atlantic Holidays I think

[GROUNDHOG]

That was quick - thanks!

[73addict]

Quite frankly I am appaled by all of the ridiculous and unfounded comments made on this subject, especially by aviation employees. In a world where this industry has taken a monumental bashing you still see the need to add fuel to the fire and instill even more fear and uncertainty amongst the public to existing airlines.
I have remained silent long enough on this topic and now feel the need to speak up. With regard all of the comments concerning PW, all of you seem to forget that by investing in Viking and the UK arm he has helped provide jobs for many over the last 21 months and help keep families together because of those jobs! A fact for which I am extremely grateful!
Viking is NOT bust but simply has to reassess its structure in a difficult market. There are many other companies doing the same at the moment but unlike some I will not name names. It has been a very tough year and certainly not helped by two of their customers going bust but they are not the only two customers on their books!!
May I suggest that if you have nothing useful to say then say nothing at all.

[exmuppet]

Well said 737addit!

I have had a long absence from these pages, and reading this rubbish I know why!

The Viking boys and girls are just trying to make a living in a market controlled by the big boys.

Pw puts his money where his mouth is, and provides jobs!

I love these people that hide behind alias on this site! Being in business is not risk free ..... This is the case in aviation more than most ......

And no I don't work for Viking and no I am not a pilot just a realist!

[globetrotter79]

Putting the thread in-fighting to one side, can anyone answer the following question:

flyviking are selling flights to the public on their website. As far as I understand it, these flights are charter flights operating on charter licenses and not scheduled services (I prepared to be corrected on this point!). As such, if the flight seats are being sold to UK punters (regardless of whether they are part of a package holiday) would Viking still not need to have an ATOL license in place with the CAA to be able to sell its seats?

[exmuppet]

The short answer to your question is no

Ryan air / easy ect do not need an atol to cover their seat only sales....

I don't want to bore you, so will leave it there!

[DjerbaDevil]

Globetrotter:
As far as I understand it, ATOL cover is only required if the sale to the customer includes the flight (charter or schedule) and other ground services (holiday package). JET2 have ATOL cover but would normally only use it for their Inclusive Tour programmes. The same as Kiss Flights, only some of their customers were covered by their ATOL, those who were IT customers. The flight only customers, even though they were on charter flights, did not have ATOL cover.
Viking are free to sell their charter flight seats to the general public or other travel organisations without ATOL cover. The CAA have other licencing procedures for airlines, I believe.

[Albert Hall]

I am amazed that there are people coming out of the woodwork to defend PW even yet.

Goldtrail Travel collapses a couple of weeks ago having made payments for all of its flying to Meridian Aviation before it ceases trading. A strange thing to do for a company about to cease trading.

Meridian Aviation is run by PW's brother and places most of its flying with Viking Airlines, which is part-owned by PW's investment vehicle, the name of which is inspired by a pirate ship (at least that's honest).

Kiss Flights (which used to be a subsidiary of Meridian before being "sold" to another company that happened to have a sufficiently large ATOL licence which Meridian couldn't get itself) then ceases trading having taken all of its peak summer customers overseas and leaving the CAA with a large bill to get them back home again.

Viking then suddenly pops up selling seats directly to the public via the internet, which as a Swedish airline, it can do without any of the ATOL protection which Goldtrail and Kiss Flights customers would have enjoyed. It is now selling seats at a significantly higher price on the same flights to the same customers who had booked with Goldtrail and then re-booked with Kiss Flights and now have to re-book again.

Does anyone else smell a large rat here?

[3REDS]

Albert Hall

I share the same thoughts as you do.

I'm just as amazed at the amount of support Phil Wyatt is getting on here, he must be pis**ng himself laughing at these silly buggers that haven't even checked out the facts before posting.

Remember your support for this parasite when your stood in line at the dole office next month.

[angeflange]

Hi, I booked my holiday with Kiss flights and was given Viking as my airline. Now that kiss have gone bump I need to re-book my flights but Viking are not showing a return flight on the date we want to come back which is Thursday 25th November. I have tried several other airlines but cannot find flights that fit in with our holiday i.e. depart 6th November return 25th November Manchester - Sharm. Can anyone help??

[RHINO]

Have a look at Monarch...

[FR-]

albery hall - interesting post, and to be honest it makes me feel sick, these people are vile for doing that. I wish the media would pick this up, because im sure the general public would be very interested to see the web of back handers and creative accounting.

[excrab]

Viking haven't "suddenly popped selling seats directly to the public via the internet..." They have always sold seats directly to the public as do many other charter airlines. Not suprisingly the seats on the flights cost more if booked directly - if you charter a whole 737-800 you will get it at a cheaper price per seat than if 180 people buy the seats seperately. As a charter company you then have to charge your customers enough to cover that cost along with all your other overheads, which Kiss and Goldtrails appear not to have done.

They are not ATOL protected - this is nothing to do with them being Swedish.
If you buy a ticket from Ryan air it is not ATOL protected, and they are Irish. But there again, if you buy a seat from Easyjet, Jet 2, Bmi Baby, Flybe, Eastern, Air South West, Virgin or British Airways, to name but a few it is not ATOL protected, the ATOL scheme only applies to package holidays.

Sadly as a result of the collapse of Goldtrails and Kiss a lot of those who have worked for Viking are now losing their jobs. However Viking are still in existance, still employing pilots and cabin crew, just scaling back their operations. It is noticeable that companies like Thompson and BMI can announce redundancies and fleet reductions and we don't see pprune covered with threads titled "BMI bust", possibly because a few posters on pprune don't have a personal axe to grind against Sir Michael Bishop, for example...

[Harry Shyters]

So, which 3 aircraft left the fleet and how has that affected staff at Viking in UK?

HS

[Albert Hall]

They have always sold seats directly to the public

That statement is untrue. The facility to make direct bookings with Viking via its website has only (very) recently been introduced.

The point I was making about ATOL cover was that up to now, anyone buying seats on these flights would have been covered by an ATOL. Now they are not. I agree with you that it simply places Viking on the same footing as the likes of Ryanair, but I think the diference is that Ryanair didn't leave a trail of destruction in its wake to get to that position in the first place.

[HP7]

I would humbly suggest that the comment "possibly because a few posters on PPRuNe don't have a personal axe to grind against Sir Michael Bishop, for example..." is not a good example.

MB has been involved with how many airlines in the last 20 years and if I am correct that airline is still in business.

I think what people are getting at is that PW has been associated with numerous airlines in the last 20 years and very few are still in business whilst hundreds of thousands of passengers have had their holiday plans wrecked while numerous creditors have been owed many millions of pounds - not quite the same as MB but feel free to offer other examples.

[BOAC]

we don't see PPRuNe covered with threads titled "BMI bust" - if you look back at the original post (#233) you will see why (logically) the original thread was so titled and why your comparison to BMI is invalid. It is, however, regrettable that mod action was not taken sooner since I and many others deplore these 'scare' threads about airlines. Of course, sometimes they do prove correct and I suspect that anything that gets within 100mls of PW may well 'encounter problems'.Goldtrail Travel collapses a couple of weeks ago having made payments for all of its flying to Meridian Aviation before it ceases trading. A strange thing to do for a company about to cease trading.

Meridian Aviation is run by PW's brother and places most of its flying with Viking Airlines, which is part-owned by PW's investment vehicle, the name of which is inspired by a pirate ship (at least that's honest). - that I did not know. It is to be hoped that some regulatory oversight happens here.

For those into inhaling odours of the genus Muroidea (that'll get you Googling...:)) it may be interesting to plough through the closed thread (http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/399168-flyglobespan-into-administration.html) on Globespan to see the occasional 'glancing blow' of the words Viking and Viking Hellas and Greek-Cypriot owners and Icelandics and PW and ............................ The trail ???????????

I think that unless I was desperate for a job I would look very closely for certain names on the company list.

[exmuppet]

Your post is inaccurate and misleading :

Goldtrail - an independent company who's owner has apparently absconded, no doubt taking a large amount of dosh with him and dropping ALL the suppliers in the sh1t, GT had not paid for all their flights as this would be impossible, Goldtrail would have been contracted for seats until the end of Oct, which would have been planned into the flying programme, obviously no payment, no flying! thus the need to re-plan and potentially downsize - it is not rocket science.

Meridian / Viking - Standard practice for Airlines to use GSA's in the UK market. Look at the Monarch / First Aviation relationship.

Kiss - they didn't go bust taking all their peak bookings with them, the peak period this year has not materialised, this has already been stated publicly by Tui and Tcx and they have warned of result that are at the 'lower end of market expectations'. If the bookings do not come in, then unfortunately, it causes companies to fail, there has been a long string of them over the past year and, no doubt, more to follow.

The travel market is a very tough business to be in right now and yes tough decisions have to be made....

end!

[Albert Hall]

GT had not paid for all their flights as this would be impossible

Another person on here arguing that black is white. Goldtrail had paid for flying immediately before it went bust - flying that then never happened and an action decribed by the appointed administrator as "unusual". If there is any doubt on this front, please see the article dated 22 July on the Travel Trade Gazette website. The relevant bit says:

Goldtrail called in administrators Begbies Traynor on Friday – hours after paying £1.3 million to cover its flying with a “handful of airlines”.

Joint administrator Jamie Taylor said it was “unusual” for such a payment to be made just as a company was going into administration.


I see nothing remotely inaccurate and misleading about what I've posted. What I do think is misleading is the second attempt in as many hours (first excrab, then exmuppet) to deflect attention away from where it should be focused by disputing facts which are already in the public domain. The large rat remains at large. And it is not an ex rat either.

[VOM1T]

Not sure how this historic article fits into this discussion, but just thought it might be interesting to feature it... love the last sentence !

Kiss Flights owner launches flyviking.com

Jun 03, 2010 09:00
The parent of seat-only operator Kiss Flights has signed an exclusive deal to run Viking Airlines’ new direct-sell website.

Viking Airlines, part-owned by former XL Leisure Group boss Phil Wyatt, has licensed Flight Options to use the domain name flyviking.com for two years to
sell a proportion of its stock.

The deal allows the airline to market itself as providing 100% financial protection for consumers, as compulsory scheduled airline failure insurance (Safi) is sold with every booking.

Wyatt, who has a 50% stake in Viking Airlines through his firm Black Pearl Investments, said the airline was looking to spread distribution rather than rely on independent operators and agents.

He said: “We’re making a small number of seats available on a non-committed basis to consumers. We are not becoming the next flymonarch.com.”

The site, which launched this week, also sells car parking and access to airport lounges.

Flight Options managing director Gary Ash said: “We already work closely with Viking Airlines as it is a main supplier for Kiss Flights, so this was a great opportunity for us.”

Ash said he would consider branching out to hotels or bed banks in future once

Atol responsibilities had been clarified by the Department for Transport review. “We would consider having a few website links to hotel companies but it would depend on the Civil Aviation Authority,” said Ash.

“There has been a loss of confidence since the volcanic ash disruption. Once the confidence returns we will begin marketing activities. The fact that customers have 100% Safi protection will be a huge selling point.”

[oliversarmy]

spicejetter

I too am no armchair CEO but I would expect any CEO worth his/her salt would have some sort of due dilligence on one of its biggest customers so perhaps just perhaps there is a bit of risk analysis and planning in place "just incase"

The dont have a fleet of three, they have a fleet of 6 plus three aircraft wet leased from Sunwing, thats a total of 9 so disposing of three still allows a respectible operation of 6 aircraft.

The reference to the Middle East is their programme of flights to Iraq.

OA

[Ben178v]

Are you surprised by the reply? Do you know how frustrating it is reading drivel on here from people like he says do a little research. Yes some people hate PW/Viking/XL etc etc. But everyone who works at Viking does so to keep current, keep paying the bills and keep their family together. There are people at Viking who probably feel the same but having morals at the expense of your family by either having to live abroad and commute back or be out of work is not for everyone. Regardless of where any profits go the main thing is to provide for yourself and family.

As for people posting on here that they hope the company goes under. Words fail me. If that were to happen the money men wouldn't lose their house and car just a business. The knock on effects for the workers however would be far more outreaching. Fathers being on a different continent to there kids, bankruptcies, strained marriages and so on i'm sure you get the idea and to wish that on someone that you don't even know? What a great person you are and hopefully I never have to sit next to you.

And yes I do work for Viking they gave me a job and brought me back from Nigeria and everyday that I go to work I do the best that I can for them and i'm proud to work there.

You will also know that like most of the spineless on here I don't hide my name anyone that works with me knows who I am it is also my hotmail address. It might be an idea for some of you out there to do the same. It would make you slightly more accountable for your words and perhaps you wouldn't post so thoughtlessly.

As for Viking they employed full time pilots and summer contractors. No full time pilot redundancies and there is a plan afoot to give the summer connies some work. Not sure we can ask for more than that in the present climate.

[73addict]

Well said and seconded Ben. :D I have already posted something very similar and am glad more of us are showing our support.
All of these people bad mouthing everything are simply ignorant, they always fail to remember the workforce! The ramifications of these comments reach further than just Viking staff but to all levels of the industry.
I guess people are only happy when they are moaning or giving their two pence worth of uninformed garbage! Of course all of you complaining about the management are on the board and therefore know exactly what has happened and where it all went wrong. Basically the same as football supporters thinking they can do a better job at managing that anyone else!
As someone caught up in the XL collapse I joined Viking to prevent being sent abroad to work.

[exmuppet]

Well said Ben, I admire your honesty...

There are good people working at Viking (both in the office and in the air) working, as most of us do, to provide the best we can for our families...

There are spineless idiots on this site that sit at home (probably after a few large ones) posting utter rubbish!

I for one hope Viking survive and prosper .... Good luck to all.... !

[A and C]

Above I see posts from people who are just trying to do the best they can to keep a roof over the their heads and the children fed & clothed, Viking is the airline that they happen to work for and so they will be trying to make sure that they dont end out of work.

Also above I see people who have a grudge, the target of that grudge seems to be PW, Viking & the people who work for Viking. I cant help thinking that some of them are likely to be the people who during the XL days posted such vindictive rubbish about XL that I did not realise that it was XL they were writing about untill I got well into narative.

May be it was the attitude they showed in XL that resulted in the fact they did not get a job with Viking.

May be these people should look at the bigger picture, shops closing in the high streets, all sorts of businesses going bust and major cuts in public services. Hardly surprizing then that the low cost low margin travel companys feel cold wind of the economic recession.

Perhaps you should turn your anger on on the greed of bankers and the last govenment who spent money they did not have, It was they who got us into this mess.

But I expect that you are all so short sighted that you cant see past your own little world. I think this post to prevoke some sort on reaction and look forward to your explanation of how PW & Co are responsable for the economic crisis that is gripping the world economy.

[puppet on a string]

i think we are missing the point. the management at viking shouldnt be in avaition

[TSR2]

As I am not an employee of Viking, nor been affected in any way by the demise of Kiss, Goldtrail or XL, I feel that I can comment on this debate objectively.

Looking at the bigger picture, yes, Viking are providing valuable employment for many people some of whom may have struggled financially or may have had to leave the travel industry altogether had Viking not expanded their operations into the UK.
This point is not in doubt and I would like to believe that everyone hopes that it continues this way.

On the other side of the coin there appears to be undeniable links between the management of Viking and the management of Kiss Flights which, due to the timing of the failure of Kiss (albeit their parent Flight Options) is bound to give rise to suspicions as to the credibility of the management of both companys.

Also to be considered following the failure of Kiss is the number of job losses not only at Kiss itself but also at associated businesses, indeed the speed at which Viking downsized must have resulted in quite a number of people becoming instantly unemployed. Then there is the tens of thousands of holidaymakers who have seen their hard earned annual holiday either severely disrupted or even lost and not to mention the demand on the CAA to rectify the resulting mess.

The point of the debate therefore should be directly related to the actions of the management of Kiss Flights and Viking that have been or are likely to be detrimental to the wellbeing of Viking Airlines.

I think it only natural for anyone to raise valid suspicions of the business conduct of any management personnel based on their previous business activities. As for me, I am highly suspicious of some form of unethical practices somewhere along the line, based solely on the timing of the demise of Kiss Flights after all it is high summer and the nature of their business is not exactly high capital outlay upfront. However, I am perfectly willing to have an open mind on the subject if someone can convince me that Kiss Flights were actually a profitable company pulled under by a bankrupt owner. But I suspect we will never know the truth

[A and C]

Well done a little balance at last, just one thing, the downsizing at Viking is almost all in "contracted in" capacity or was planned for the winter.

[compton3bravo]

Article in the Mail on Sunday about Viking/Kiss/Wyatt. To me a lot of inaccuracies but make your own mind up.

[BOAC]

Strictly for Daily Mail readers into house spotting - ain't the internet wonderful? Thanks to Google and other sites.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/boacphotos/Phil.jpg

[Affretage]

The article you guys are referring to can be found here: -

Two years ago Phil Wyatt wept on TV when XL Airways collapsed. Now it¿s happened all over again | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1305135/Two-years-ago-Phil-Wyatt-wept-TV-XL-Airways-collapsed-Now-s-happened-again.html?ITO=1490)

[A and C]

An interesting report in "The Mail" and about as usefull as the stuff they write about aviation inccidents.

[Philwyatt]

I have not responded for nearly two years as to the specualtion and rumours that have been written about my family and I


Its time to put the record straight.

I made a big mistake employing Peter Owen as CEO of XL and stood back whilst still the largest SH (part time dep Chairman) serving 1 years notice and basically let him and his army of consultants and so called experts destroy a business I had built since 1999 along with great people such as Steve Tomlinson and Eamonn Mullany and a superb Management Team and staff who were commited and deicated to delivering a safe a secure operation and product second to none

Some people on this forum are bitter as they have been misled as they do not have the facts -

I am NO Criminal as has been stated on this forum.

Peter Owen personally owes me well in excess of 1M UKL and I have taken the legal steps to collect this loan that was afforded to him prior to joining XL as a short term loan.

Whilst he was employed XL he subsequently went bankrupt for monies owed to some other third party that was anuled.

Becauxe Owen could no longer continue as a Director, I was left with no option but to return as CEO and pick up the mess which he and his team had created.

I was mislead and informed as were the board that Peter Owen and he his many consultants were near to finalising the refinacing of XL Sadly the whole thing was a staged by PO to generate huge consultancy fees from XL.

So when John Smith speaks of criminals he should do his homework


Onto current matters

I am a SH in BPI and do own 40 p/c of Viking AB - Christian Tadjeran owns the balance

BPI have NO shareholding in Kiss and Kiss was a customer as was Goldtrail
to Viking and ALL transaction were on a arms length basis

If Viking did not exist the UK Market would be dominated by TCX/TUI
more than it is currently and the consumer would be penalised with high prices

The Viking Management Team led by Halldor Siguardson and Phil Lintott
Clarke are doing a good job reshaping Vikings business after these collapses to ensure it contiues to meet supply with demand - This regretably has meant cabin crew have had to be laid off as the 3 SWG units will return to SWG 29.8

My day to day involvement is minimal and only in capacity as consultant/investor - we have a great team of dedicated professionals in Viking as we did at XL and you will see the business become much stronger and focused under Halldor and Phil Lintott Clarke over the next 2 months

Viking need to downsize its UK fleet but this is at the expense of wet leased summer capacity and NOT core business or flight deck crew

Sunwing have been very supportive and I give them my personal thanks.
They are a great bunch of people and have shown Viking the suppot XL showed them when they established themselves...Thanks to ALL at Sunwing.

Vikings order books are good for Winter and Summer and I personally believe my investment through BPI will deliver great rewards. Viking has a
robust business in Iraq and from resort based locations for blue chip
clients.

I will make this one last point and that is I believe this site has great value but is being mis used by some for personal vendetta and smear and as professionals some of you that hide behind quite obvious alias believe you
are above the law.


Phil Wyatt

[TSR2]

I admire your guts for trying to put the record straight but many people I am sure will read it simply as an attempt to shift the blame for the demise of XL.

You state
I made a big mistake employing Peter Owen as CEO of XL and stood back whilst still the largest SH (part time dep Chairman) serving 1 years notice and basically let him and his army of consultants and so called experts destroy a business I had built since 1999

If you really stood back and watched your company destroyed by a person you employed then you sir, must personally shoulder TOTAL responsibility for the reported £100 million debt that took your company under, the misery of unemployment for thousands of your employees and not to mention the tens of thousands of decent hard working people who lost their holidays.

With regards to Viking, you state
My day to day involvement is minimal and only in capacity as consultant/investor
Yet you own 40% of the shares. Let's hope that your judgement of the ability of the Viking management team is better than your judgement of the XL management team.

[molehole]

HP7, you need a reality check.

How many global airlines have gone bust in the last 10 years.?

How many American Airlines are in chapter 11 owing billions?

How many UK airlines have gone bust in the last 10 years owing millions and as you put it ruining peoples holidays?

I suggest stop playing judge and jury and come back down to earth.

We have the likes of EZY and Ryan to thank for the state of the UK market by means of educatating people to think that flying thousands of miles is cheap when it is not.

People need to pay more for their travels and then airlines may have a better chance of survival.

[exviking]

PW.

Something doesnt stack up. I didn't believe your crocodile tears when my livelihood was pulled in XL and I don't believe your 'its not my fault' bleating now.

You say you have minimal day to day dealings just an invester.....absolute rubbish. Why when things start going wrong..on a day to day basis...do you get copied into the emails then enter into the operational arena directly...as per the emails which sometimes end up on the viknet email system...some of which would shoot you down immediately.

Why do you patronize your pilots by enticing them to fly for your Iraq airline on a captains salary of £3400 per month?

So does PLC have an MBA or any experience in the management of companies at boardroom level, which he can bring so that they can believe he'll be their saviour? I would wager that he won't be here this time next year and we know where he'll be!

I for one hope that you can keep going as I have many friends relying on Viking to pay the bills. All they ask for is the truth, and to be fairly treated.

[exmuppet]

the fact you think you need a MBA to run a company amuses me....

Give me Someone who has gone though one of the toughest selection processes in the world (RAF Fast jet) held senior management positions in various airlines and has one of the most important qualities ' a hands on common sense approach' ...... any day..!

[Banzai Eagle]

PW
Might be worth offering them 737's to Easyjet before you give them back!?
Bring back Goldcrest if only for the friday night CFU's and the good old days...:D

[exviking]

Exmuppet. Your sense of humour in these difficult times is to be applauded. Thank you for making me smile!

[on time all the time]

There a few things which surprise me among which the number of spelling mistakes.The other thing is if Mr Owen was the sole responsible for the XL debacle....why did Mr Wyatt and his company do business with Mr Owen again?????????? Can you explain the logic to me here.

[Surrey Towers]

PW, it is a huge mistake to try to justify your own shortcomings. A lesson you should have learned all the way through Goldcrest, XL and to Viking and Kiss. Your hands were fully engaged in all of them. I know it and you know it. It is rather silly to think that everyone will forgive you by bleating your fanciful notions that you are whiter than white.

You have let down many thousands of people who relied on you.

XL was not the fault of those you named - it was your fault. Peter Owen had a good track record and was perfectly capable so how come it all went pear shaped? You were the one who finished up with a large estate which cost a lot of money. That money came from the riches of the businesses you fronted.

I made a big mistake employing Peter Owen as CEO of XL and stood back whilst still the largest SH (part time dep Chairman) serving 1 years notice and basically let him and his army of consultants and so called experts destroy a business I had built since 1999 along with great people such as Steve Tomlinson and Eamonn Mullany and a superb Management Team and staff who were committed and dedicated to delivering a safe a secure operation and product second to none


Clearly, you still had the wherewithal to stop the rot even if it were true - but you did nothing. Why was that? Why didn't you act, as you most certainly should have done even as dep Chairman, presumably executive or non-exec, to stop what you knew would result in a catastrophic collapse of XL. You appear to be somewhat negligent in that. Was it perhaps because you were prepared only to protect your own position.

The fact is that you have done it again. The bs you spill about Sunwing, Iraq and others is fatuous. You are protecting yourself again. And how can you work again with a man who bought the wrath of Damocles to XL? Sorry, don't believe a word you say.

Like I said, you made a huge mistake in trying to use PPRuNe to somehow feel that you could lay to rest the pitiful errors you made from day one. Many of the members of PPRuNe would have at one time or another been employed by you..................see your mistake?

[3REDS]

Phil Wyatt

That is your best excuse after all that you have done and all that has been said about you on here. HaHa.... It's no wonder we went bust... just for the record I don't believe a word of it.

Nice house by the way... How many poor sods have lost holidays to pay for that I wonder. I recon I own a few meters of that nice lawn.

While were on the topic of money any chance you could pay me what I am owed. Ta very much.

Oh and you ARE a criminal no matter how many times you try and convince yourself and others that you are not.

[clareview]

People start businesses to make money. Sometimes they do and sometimes the do not. Most people who start businesses invest their savings, mortgage their house, borrow heavily. If the business does well they do well, if the business goes bad they don't do well anymore, though hopefully they will have recouped their start up investment.

When businesses do well, the employees earn a wage and have some security. When businesses do badly, for whatever reason, then the employees can loose their job.

Which would you prefer - no job or a job in the hope that, over time, the company does well, that the economy picks up and that a degree of security may creep in?

Its the same in any business - look at the number of chains that have disappeared over the last few years.

However the airline business seems to be particularly fragile - a look back 20 years or so reveals several airlines disappear, for a variety of reasons, every year, some high profile - Dan Air, Air Europe, XL others less so - Highland, Ambassador, Paramount and so on and so on.

My point is that I consider it wrong to criticise people trying to start and keep a business going which provides jobs for many. Instead we should all be encouraging entrepreneurship.

[TSR2]

My point is that I consider it wrong to criticise people trying to start and keep a business going which provides jobs for many

In starting any business comes responsibility. Reponsibility to your shareholders, responsibility to your employees and responsibility to your customers.

In relation to the collapse of XL, the point is that PW by his own admission sat back and watched his company destroyed by someone else. This in my eyes is grossly irresponsible and negligent conduct and I can fully understand the anger of ex employees and customers who have suffered considerably by the collapse whilst the owner on the face of it did not.

I can therefore fully understand the concerns expressed by many people regarding the future of Viking Airways.

[dollie123]

Well said clareview.

I was XL for 3 years and am now at Viking, where I have been for nearly 2 years. it was extreamly sad when XL went under. I and alot of others were out of jobs and struggling. I for one am greatful that Viking came over to the UK and gave me a job. The demise of Kiss has affected us, but not to the extent that we are in trouble.. it is all speculation. I think people need to stand back and wait and see what happens before they assume the airline are in an early grave!

[aviator_forever]

wasn't there a letter from Tadjeran circulated already on 2 aug?

(Tadjeran, by the way has built himself an equally expensive mansion in Porto Rafti, outside Athens)

a letter where the downsizing of the airline was blamed on Goldtrail going bust.
the same stating that Magnus Stephensson, Halldor Sigurdsson and Phil Lintott Clarke was to take control of the company.

anyone can see the connection with XL and PW!

if the downsizing was required by loss of Goldtrail, with about 20% of the Viking flights, what will the fall of Kiss then mean, with almost 80%????

[excrab]

Aviator forever,

Yes there was a letter circulated after goldtrails went bust.

After Kiss went bust two more letters were circulated to the staff via the company intranet, and all staff have now been contacted by their managers and know what is happening to them.

As PW has posted on here already it is no secret that three aircraft ae being returned to sunwings early.

Bristol and Manchester bases have closed and sadly most of cabin crew have been made redundant from those bases. Some of those from Manchester were permanent staff, those from Bristol were on temporary contracts. The permanent cabin crew from Gatwick still have jobs.

The pilots on summer contracts have had their contracts terminated about two weeks early, and in the meantime have been rebased to Gatwick and offered either a payment to find accomodation there or Hotel accomodation at Vikings expense when they are flying. They have been told that there may be some work in Iraq, but they have not had their contracts terminated for refusing to go there as was suggested in one of the posts above.

No permanent flight crew have been made redundant, although those from Bristol and Manchester have had to return to Gatwick.

All that is information available to me as an employee. It isn't secret.

Yes there is a similarity to Xl - the owner of Viking lives in a big house. If I owned an airline I would want to live in a big house as well. If I was clever enough to own an airline instead of just working for one I would also make sure it was a limited company so that if it went bust I could keep my big house - but then I would do the same if I was a plumber or a baker.

But there is a big difference between Viking and Xl. Viking is still trading, it is reducing in size but all its employees are aware of that. They are not finding out that it has gone bust when they get to work to find the receivers in the crew room to take their ID passes from them. Viking is a small airline with six aircraft (Viking Hellas is a seperate company with three more). It isn't the UKs third largest leisure group apparently financed by smoke and mirrors.

Hopefully any of vikings passengers reading this forum won't be deceived into thinking that conjecture based on a few people hating Phil Wyatt is reality and they will not have flights next week or next month. Kiss went bust, not Viking airlines.

[skywalker1981]

Hi,

any news about viking flights or operations for the winter? is it true that they are sending two a/c to operate sunwings flights in Canada?

[Affretage]

Skywalker

... you are assuming they'll still be around for the winter !
T/O deposits are due to be returned by the end of September.
Interesting times ahead.

[skywalker1981]

Hi Affretage,

i don't know, that's why i am asking. it's seems like that at the moment viking will operate the Iraq's flights during the winter but not other operations.

if the T/O are returning the deposits that means a lot.

[Affretage]

skywalker

When tour operators are booking their programmes with an airline they are asked to put down a big deposit, refundable at the end of the season. We are approaching the end of the season which means VIK have to refund all that money. Most smaller airlines use deposits to fund their operations and if they haven't made a profit, there won't be any money to refund the tour operators. Hence, interesting times ahead..... ;)

[Mr.Bloggs]

Not very interesting actually, Affretage.

The likes of you, TSR2 and other lamebrains seem to want to talk Viking out of business on a public forum, irrespective of the damage caused to employees' livelihoods. And neither of you seem to be professional pilots.

I know this won't stop either of you, but felt morally and duty-bound to say something.

[TSR2]

I suggest you should read and UNDERSTAND posts fully before slinging childish comments like lamebrains.

My comments have been directed at the irresponsible actions that led to the demise of XL AIRWAYS as admitted by the owner. I never have and never will, wish anything but success for Viking.

Does this quote from my post 341 make my position clear
then you sir, must personally shoulder TOTAL responsibility for the reported £100 million debt that took your company under, the misery of unemployment for thousands of your employees and not to mention the tens of thousands of decent hard working people who lost their holidays.

[skywalker1981]

Hi Affretage,

thanx for the info, I know how the TTOO works. Anyway is a bad situation for Viking.

Mr. Bloggs, I don't want Viking going bust as I have a very good friend working for them.

the problem is that their own staff don't have much information about viking situation (people on forums know more than them). I've heard that today 2 a/c are flying to South America and on Dec 2 more will operate Sunwings flights. Supposedly they are delivering onther one to the lessor, then....... How many a/c will operate for Viking for the winter?

[Affretage]

Mr Bloggs
You can stop your rant right now. This is history repeating itself. Not looking good, unless the icelander will put in some more money; PW won't be getting his wallet out in a hurry.

Skywalker
Apart from a few HRG and SSH, VIK looks to be only operating the usual low yield ethnic cr@p to Iraq. Kissflight's programme was the heart and soul of the machine. No wonder they created Viking Hellas (Lifeboat) Airlines ? It's been well planned, just like the acquisition of VIK took place long before XL failed. I am not surprised that the independent sector is losing confidence in these gentlemen and their ventures. Seems for them it's always been a case of 'nothing ventured, everything gained'.

[CabinCrewe]

ethnic cr@p
Im not sure I like that particular term

[skywalker1981]

Affretage,

What's your opinion about the Iraq flights? i mean if the give plenty benefits to keep the company running...

does anyone know whats happening with the crew? if they are only operating with a few flights a lot of them will be fired

[Affretage]

Cabin Crewe

Ethnic cr@p is just that. Whether these flights got to Pristina, Erbil or Somalia they generate cr@p seat rates. The pax are usually refugees and guest workers who can ill afford air travel. VIK are selling flights to Iraq for as little as 990 SEK (less than £100) one way. Need I elaborate any further on 'crap' ?

Skywalker
Re Iraq flights please see above. With VIK Hellas already set up, you can all guess what will happen to Viking Airlines AB. As I said earlier, it's XL all over again. Different year, same people. :D

[RoyHudd]

Taisez-vous, Affretage.

[Affretage]

Someone in ops tells me that all that remains of VIKs winter flying has now been scheduled on the Greek registered aircraft. καληνύχτα και αντίο Viking Airlines AB.

[skywalker1981]

hi affretage,

but that's not new because Viking AB is still operating all the iraq flights and SSH and HRG for all the winter season. also they are starting to operate iraq flights from/to CPH.

[skywalker1981]

wow!!! post deleted by the administrator..... that means a lot!!!!

by the way it's seems that Viking is not operating SSH for the winter.... are they operating with an only a/c?

what is happening..... now they have deleted viking airlines face book group due to a lot of claims... everything in viking is a bit weird.....

[Affretage]

VIK cannot operate from CPH. They do not have traffic rights. Show's over. Get used to it. I heard there are some pax coming from Iraq destined for London (via ARN). The pax will then be offloaded at ARN, but guess what, the aircraft will then fly empty to Canada, and the pax will have to swim to the UK. That's what you get for £99. :D

Long live Viking - NOT !!!

[aidoair]

VIK cannot operate from CPH. They do not have traffic rights. Show's over. Get used to it. I heard there are some pax coming from Iraq destined for London (via ARN). The pax will then be offloaded at ARN, but guess what, the aircraft will then fly empty to Canada, and the pax will have to swim to the UK. That's what you get for £99. :D


Ugh? :confused:

Where did you here this (not the CPH part as they are happy at ARN)? So basically you are saying they have shut up shop tonight?

Sources ?

[Albert Hall]

Plumponpies - let's revisit that in a few days and see whether you're right or whether Affretage is correct. There are two versions of likely events on here and yours isn't the one I'd put money on.

[IB4138]

Lasham Movements does inform :

738 SE-RHS is at Lasham, returned to lessor and has already been repainted into Yakutia livery for it's next lease.

[sam1993]

Whilst I would like to see the airline do well, their website currently lists all flights for next summer as 'Sold Out'

I sincerely hope this is not the end of Viking!

[skywalker1981]

it seems that viking will operate with an only a/c, the SE-RHR. this a/c is one of the a/c that suposedly was going to Canada.

Well hope this is not true: Viking Airlines temporaily ceases operations
Airlines Suspending Operations: Viking Airlines temporaily ceases operations - Blog - FleetWatch - Aviation & Aerospace Blogs - FlightGlobal (http://www.flightglobal.com/airspace/groups/fleet_and_orders_gossip_shop/blog/archive/2010/10/15/airlines-suspending-operations-viking-airlines-temporaily-ceases-operations.aspx)

[exviking]

I hope not true, but it seems like the winter losses are starting already. Hope this is only a temporary blip.

Airlines Suspending Operations: Viking Airlines temporaily ceases operations - Blog - FleetWatch - Aviation & Aerospace Blogs - FlightGlobal (http://www.flightglobal.com/airspace/groups/fleet_and_orders_gossip_shop/blog/archive/2010/10/15/airlines-suspending-operations-viking-airlines-temporaily-ceases-operations.aspx)

[BOAC]

Oh dear - commiserations to all if this is true.. Now remind me again of that man's name who lives up the road in the big house.:(

[sam1993]

Viking A/L seems to have ceased operations with its four remaining aircraft returned to the lessor over the last few days. Whether this is a temporary or permanent cessation remains to be seen. The Canadian registered B738s were returned to Sunwing A/L on 29/8, while the situation regarding the Swedish registered machines, including two disposed of earlier, is as follows:
SE-RHR B738 (30637) ferried from Stockholm/Arlanda to Shannon 14/10
SE-RHS B738 (28617) rolled out at East Midlands 11/10 in Yakutia scheme & ferried to Lasham 12/10
SE-RHT B733 (24962) ferried from Glasgow to Ostrava 9/10
SE-RHU B733 (28560) to GECAS as N559MS & for WebJet as PR-WJU
SE-RHV B733 (28567) to GECAS as N558MS & for WebJet as PR-WJV
SE-RHX B738 (28592) ferried from Paris/CDG to Ostrava 14/10 after lease to XL A/W France
Viking Hellas seems unaffected at the moment.

Not looking good for Viking! :{

[Xpert]

This seems to be true.

[globetrotter79]

Anyone know what is happening with todays VIK151 Gatwick to banjul flight?

Has been showing on gatwick website as "final call" for most of the day since it was due to depart at 09:30 this morning...

[73addict]

Also people, anyone see the similarities between XL and Viking!!
XL UK goes broke but somehow XL France and Germany are both buoyant and survive.
Viking AB/UK ceases and Viking Hellas survives!!
Think the wonderful boss man has found a way of sinking companies to make a tidy profit. All legally of course!
Oh and the best bit none of their front line employees have been told anything yet :ugh:

[tflier]

News from the frontline.....we have no news!!!

[HubNuts]

Having been an Ex-XL'r myself in the past, and seeing this news does not bode well, i do hope that this is just a temporary blip, whatever people think about the Monkey In Charge and his Arthur Daily Vegetable Market Business skills, i hope that the Airline Continues and those employed , remain employed,a job is a job and pays the bills.

I wish all Viking Staff good karma and hope things work out for the better.

:)

[Chug a lug]

So I take it my trip to SSH sunday is canned then....? Be good for someone to make an official announcement. .

[andrew1968]

VIK152 from Banjul expected Sat 12:25! Instead of 22:55 Fri!

[skywalker1981]

confirmed: Viking Airlines 'suspends operations' but vows to return next summer - ttglive (http://www.ttglive.com/c/portal/layout?p_l_id=3208370&CMPI_SHARED_articleId=4361327&CMPI_SHARED_ImageArticleId=4361327&CMPI_SHARED_articleIdRelated=4361327&CMPI_SHARED_ToolsArticleId=4361327&CMPI_SHARED_CommentArticleId=4361327&articleTitle=Viking%20Airlines%20'suspends%20operations'%20b ut%20vows%20to%20return%20next%20summer)

what about all the staff working in Stockholm? is it possible to stop operating only for 3-4 month and then start from nothing again like they have "vowed"?

[globetrotter79]

I see the BJL flight is also now operating under "VKH" flight numbers

[Mr Angry from Purley]

At the end of the "summer" season. Um....:\

[exviking]

Rumour has it that the management haven't even bothered to tell the crews! Once again the same is happening again by the same people that did it to us in XL. Clear them out and start again! Surely the MD should come out with something!

[A and C]

Quote:- Rumour has it that the management haven't even bothered to tell the crews!

Incorrect!

[exviking]

I think you'll find that pprune forced his hand! Just been e-mailed a copy of his letter to the troops! No aeroplanes....so viking is now a virtual airline. Shall swap my subcription from Flight magazine to PC Pilot!

[adrianpallett]

I just had a call from an exhausted neighbour who flew from Gatwick to Banjul this morning flight number was VIK151 but just before takeoff they were told they were going via Spain Arrived in Banjul at 10pm Banjul board now shows flight 4P152 to Gatwick 4am so still using Viking flight numbers rgds

[Chug a lug]

Be good to let the SLF know officially as well...

Anyone got any spare seats going to SSH sunday? Thanks exviking for heads up. ;)

[GemStA]

Assuming above SSH is the VIK 173, it looks like it will be operated by Viking Hellas. Flight no changed to VKH. Will be an A320 SX-SMU.

[mdp963]

GemstA

Where have you seen that the SSH flight is now a VKH

We are due to go 24th return 31st

Thought it a little odd that when I booked our extra leg room seats
that it was for an A320 ...theoretically not on the Viking fleet

I have since noticed that our invoice (2nd October) whilst from Viking AB does say that the flight is being operated Viking Hellas with a VKH flight prefix

Given how full the SSH flights are at this time of the year it would seem odd not to try and make them happen


Looking at the Viking Airlines website it does seem to be the case that they have VERY few flights due to operate after mid October ...and maybe those that are scheduled ... were always due to be /will be now operated by Viking Hellas

I suppose the acid test will be to see if tomorrow's flight ( VIK or VKH 173) does depart

[Fernanjet]

Is it me or is that just stating exactly what has been said....??


Where have you seen that the SSH flight is now a VKH


I have since noticed that our invoice (2nd October) whilst from Viking AB does say that the flight is being operated Viking Hellas with a VKH flight prefix

answered that yourself really....

[mdp963]

Indeed ...may be I have

1) ...only noticed it was VKH on my invoice after I started typing

2) still interested in any other source that says it will be operated by Viking Hellas

...and that we are likely get there/back and don't face our second holiday nightmare of 2010

[exviking]

Looks like the company has been split into two. Can all debts be passed over to the unhealthy side Viking, so Viking Hellas can prosper as a seperate entity. Wonder if bills and wages will be paid by Viking?
Any one know how many pilots and cabincrew are affected?
Looks like PW has done it again, incredible, how does the CAA let him and his cronies get away with it, while his employees have to suffer again. He s*****d me over once, wont let him do it again! Hopefully the CAA wont either.........

[Dreezy]

Im betting Messers Wyatt and co, moved their own cash out into a cayman islands account some time ago! Crooks! One day we can only hope they get their dues!

What's the betting they'll turn up somewhere else next year with a new brilliant money making plan?

Looking forward to that...

[A and C]

The wisdom and insight into the events in Viking Airlines of some of the people posting above is inversley proportional to the feeling of happiness and well being they will get from seeing people put out of work if the airline were to fail.

[Van G]

YouTube - Bush "Fool Me Once..." (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKgPY1adc0A&feature=related)

[BOAC]

As Saska says, he operates 'through the cracks' - are we even sure he is a 'director'? - is it his wife, or is he just the 'finance' behind the operation? Either way I don't see the CAA being able to do anything. The question is, has he committed any 'offence'?

Sorry - just realised this post is in a parallel universe post:ugh:

[compton3bravo]

Could not agree with you more Saskatoon - as for 3Reds I do wonder what you get of your life revelling in people losing their jobs and livelihood. I was made redundant four times in my career (none of my own making) so I know what it is like - not very nice at all. Wait my son and you might just lose your job one day and then see how you feel especially when there are no jobs to be had!

[3REDS]

Compton3bravo,

I did loose my job when XL went bust hence my anger at it all happening again.

Just for the record I take no joy in people loosing their jobs and If you would care to read the previous posts on this thread you will see that the likes of plumponpies and excrab did nothing but try to put a positive spin on the criminal dealings of Wyatt and co.

[skywalker1981]

plumponpies are you going to Canada to fly for sungwings or do you have the training to fly with A320?

[BOAC]

As Saska says, he operates 'through the cracks' - are we even sure he is a 'director'? - is it his wife, or is he just the 'finance' behind the operation? Either way I don't see the CAA being able to do anything. The question is, has he committed any 'offence'?

NB Copied in from the other Viking thread

[SetStandard]

Prob down the job office.
good luck lads, pity it lasted so long in my view... the government is about to slash your benefit, oh well Phil will be back next year, and you will be able to grovel for your old jobs back.

You know what 3REDS, you really are a nasty piece of work. I’m ashamed to say that I once may have shared a flight deck and had pleasant conversation with you.

Viking Airlines AB haven’t gone bust, filed for administration etc. they have just stopped operations for the winter. They may be back next summer, they may not be. However I for one have now got plenty of time on type, I didn’t need to go to Lagos and I’ve had a great two years. The people I’ve worked with are fantastic and made going to work a real joy. Not like all you old time “Ex-XL ers” who were just a miserable bunch of sods at the end of XL.

Quite frankly, you should be ashamed of yourself for thinking, never mind posting, the quote above.
I pity You.

Anyway, those who are off to Sunwings, I’m sure you will have a ball! For those who are staying at LGW, we might be around to see you when you get back. I’m sure we can arrange a drink or two...... :E

[mdp963]

Today's VHK 173 ...... Finally airborne 10.13 ....due 08.25

Also notice that Viking's Bodrum flight 724 due off at 12.55 today is ( I think) listed as SGX 724 ...operated by Saga Airlines a Turkish charter operator

[TSR2]

It has been predicted that this winter will be the worst for a decade for leisure passenger numbers so perhaps it is not such a bad idea to shut up shop for the winter period.

[skywalker1981]

but the problem is that viking wanted to keep one a/c to operate the Iraq flights but the lessor didn't trust them..... probably because there is no cash or deposits to keep the leasing.

if the lessor doesn't trust them, do you think that it will change in the future? TTOO will start looking for other charter to do the flights that viking is "suposed" to fly next summer. TTOO need to sell seats now and until 3-4 months viking AB cannot assure that.

hope things can change in the future for viking but as they said before this winter is going to be tough.

[TSR2]

Excuse my ignorance but who are TTOO ?

[skywalker1981]

TRS2 I mean in general..... as you will know Viking approached to some TTOO a few weeks ago. as well what i mean as TTOO, i mean travel agencies, passangers, etc....

do you think that if the the website is still available to book for the next summer, passengers will trust to book knowing that they haven't got an a/c to oparate them?

[sam1993]

All flights for next summer are listed as 'Sold Out' so are not on sale anymore!

[superspotter]

Surprise surprise!
Viking Hellas impounded at LGW today due non payment of fees.

[sam1993]

Viking website now changed to Viking Hellas!

Advert Link Removed

[Albert Hall]

...so if it was Viking Airlines AB yesterday and they've ceased operations, it's changed to Viking Hellas today and they've allegedly had a plane impounded, what's for tomorrow?

What goes around comes around. The individuals concerned will no doubt one day realise that it's a small world. Or should I say Small Planet?

[mdp963]

Interesting to note that website at flyviking.com has morphed into Viking Hellas

Not exactly the same as flyviking.com but similar ...although the Stockholm flights seemed to have disappeared ...even though 697 is due to go today

vikingairlines.com still exists in Swedish but English customers are redirected to Viking Hellas!!!

Does anyone know the EXACT legal relationship ( if any) between Viking AB and Viking Hellas???

Where have you see the rumours about the impounded plane ...was it anything to do with the horrible delay on Sunday's Sharm El Sheikh flight???

...or was it the reason for the non departure of yesterday's 671 to Stockholm???

[PPRuNe Pop]

NOTE:

Please do not jump to conclusions.

If you do not know FACT don't try to invent it. It is a difficult time and likely to get more difficult.

AA&R mods.

[gpuk]

From a news posting yesterday on the official Swedish CAA website, it seems that Viking ABs operating license has been suspended due to financial concerns.

Link (in Swedish): Viking airlines operativa licens återkallas tillfälligt - Transportstyrelsen (http://www.transportstyrelsen.se/sv/Nyhetsarkiv/Viking-airlines-operativa-licens-aterkallas-tillfalligt/)

[mizake the mizzen]

Advert Removed

Believe there may be a connection with Viking AB?
New Swedish registered airline commencing ops S11.

[mdp963]

English translation of Swedish CAA web page:

Viking Airlines operating license be suspended


"" Transportation Board has decided to withdraw Viking Airlines operating license suspended. This means that the company may not continue with commercial flights during the period the operating license is revoked. The decision is the company's financial situation.
Transport Agency believes that the Viking Airlines can no longer fulfill their obligations under the EC Regulation governing the conditions of operating licenses for EU airlines.
Therefore withdrawn Viking Air's operating license until 31 March 2011. By 31 March, the Transportation Board to reconsider the license.
Viking Airlines flights, said they planned to be implemented, but is implemented then by another company on behalf of Viking Airlines. Issued tickets / travel documents for travel with Viking Airlines will be accepted by the company.
If you have any questions that passengers on your flight, call 08-517 95 109th""


Two flights from Gatwick today to Stockholm and Banjul appear to be operating OK as Viking Hellas

[mdp963]

Using My Account with Viking I posed the following question earlier this morning

19-Oct-2010 @ 05:24

Why has Viking AB suddenly become Viking Hellas??


Viking's response:
19-Oct-2010 @ 09:17
Dear Mike

Thank you for your letter regarding Viking Airlines
All contracted flyving program for the remaining season will be covered by our greek associate, Viking Hellas Airlines.
Yours sincerely

Emma

Customer Relations

[puppet on a string]

i had heard rumour Small Planet were basing 2 units in UK next Summer but operating on ACMI only for anohter carrier.

Could it be Viking AB gets it's license back 31 March and then they lease in Small Planet to operate Summer 2011 ?

[TSR2]

So next year is it going to be .... Flyvikingsmallplanetswedishmooseairlines.com

Na ... it won't fit along the side of an A320. ;)

[TSR2]

I assume you are talking about Debt's not Deps.

[trunkera1]

Viking aircraft impounded at Gatwick for unpaid debts (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2010/10/19/348638/viking-aircraft-impounded-at-gatwick-for-unpaid-debts.html)

[JamesKealey]

It seems from what I have heard from viking pilots -that the company do not give a damn about the pilots, and they are to just get on with it. The letter of redundancy to a pilot just read "Dear Colleague" - Hmmmm, sounds... personal!

With disregard to safety in the past, a small fleet, a company that I thought originated in Sweden but is now Greek, I dunno what to believe with this company any more.

I think the pilots who worked for them are better than this! Deserve more than this!

If Viking started again, do you think that pilots would go back? Or find another job somewhere else?

James

[TSR2]

With disregard to safety in the past

Would you like to elaborate on this?

[JamesKealey]

A pilot I know when he joined the company - he had just finished sim training - and was asked to start right away - without insurance, a contract, line training...

....safety perhaps the wrong word - but they have not done things properly/by the book in the past...

J

[airhumberside]

Does anyone know the EXACT legal relationship ( if any) between Viking AB and Viking Hellas???
From Air Transport News (http://www.airtransportnews.aero/article.pl?mcateg=airlines&id=26123)
Viking Hellas is a privately owned airline based in Athens, Greece, and is not directly connected to Viking Airlines other than sharing a similar name. Whilst Viking Hellas Airlines and Viking Airlines have cooperated operationally and commercially they are discreetly owned and managed.

[skywalker1981]

I am not sure if that news is correct or not but i think they are the same. they use the same logos, now hellas is using the same website to book flights, and (i am not really sure about this) but the share the same operations department.... operations department for viking AB and viking hellas is in Athens :suspect:

and why hellas a/c was impounded at LGW due to viking AB unpaids fees?

[mdp963]

Viking Hellas is a privately owned airline based in Athens, Greece, and is not directly connected to Viking Airlines other than sharing a similar name. Whilst Viking Hellas Airlines and Viking Airlines have cooperated operationally and commercially they are discreetly owned and managed.




..not directly connected other than a linked web site etc !!!! :confused:

[TSR2]

they are discreetly owned and managed.

You can say that again.

[Keyvon]

It appears Viking Airlines is about to making a return in the UK charter market scene. Next summer they are expected to serve Gatwick with : Alicante, Palma, Malaga, Faro, Corfu, Kos, Rhodes, Heraklion, Skiathos, Kefalonia, Kalamata Bourgas, Hurghada, Sharm el Sheikh and possibly Turkish holiday destinations such as Dalaman and Bodrum.

All the flights seem to operate under VKH (Viking Hellas) flight codes.

For the current winter season, they are flying from Gatwick to Egypt and ski resorts (Geneva and Friedrichshafen), with non-based aircraft, if I am not mistaken.

[Affretage]

Shame tour operators won't be betting on this pony again. If they try to run this as a seat only venture, it will have the same success as Viking Airlnes (after the closure of Kiss).

If they are serious about operating out of the UK next year, a rebrand seems inevitable as does a complete disassociation with the usual suspects Wyatt, Meridian.

[A and C]

Not being gifted with your insight into the market I cant quite understand one or two things, Viking seem to be flying out of LGW (under a Greek flag) without too much trouble, so some one must be doing business with them!

Also a Swedish couts has seen to grant some sort of chapter 11 protection to Viking AB, to get this sort of protection the court must have seen that the Viking managment have some sort of realistic plans to cover their debts.

I wonder how the experts on this forum would have reacted to a summer season when a first you have to deal with the volcanic ash fiasco and then TWO major customers going bust? The whole market is running on thin margins and for a new and small company it was a very tough time.

[Vino Collapso]

We have just booked our summer holiday in Greece for early august 2011 with tour operator Mark Warner Holidays.

I am somewhat concerned that when the flight details came through they were with Viking Hellas into Kalamata!

More grey hairs.

[Affretage]

Mark Warner have an ATOL, so financially you are covered. If Viking do not deliver the flights, you will get your money back. Just make sure you buy a package from Warner (with ATOL receipt). Avoid buying your flight separately. Flight and accommodation should be all on the same invoice to be on the safe side.

[Ian Brooks]

Viking Hellas are operating through MAN normally operating to Athens

[Affretage]

Viking Hellas are operating through MAN normally operating to Athens


Doesn't mean they will operate 'normally' tomorrow ! That's why it is important to buy an ATOL protected package. If you buy seat only from Wyatt Hellas, you would not get your money back in the event that the airline stops flying.

Anyway, why take the risk, when there are plenty UK carriers flying the same routes ?

[TSR2]

you would not get your money back in the event that the airline stops flying.

I think you would if you paid by credit card.

[lezah20]

Quote:
you would not get your money back in the event that the airline stops flying.
I think you would if you paid by credit card.

Yeah..

that's right

[Airbus321-200]

Even if i did get my money back when they go bust i still wouldn't book with Viking considering the issues they had a few months back.

Never forget XL. Not to be trusted with a goldfish let alone an airline.

[TSR2]

i still wouldn't book with Viking considering the issues they had a few months back.

Agree with you on that.

[gpuk]

Viking Hellas changes name and closes Gatwick base - www.travelweekly.co.uk (http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/Articles/2011/02/01/35971/viking-hellas-changes-name-and-closes-gatwick-base.html)

[Airbus321-200]

Well there's a surprise! :ugh:

You can change your name as much as you like it's still a flawed operation. What happened to a "bigger and stronger" gatwick operation for 2011?

I wonder what airline Wyatt will destroy next?

[joniveson]

The only tour operators stupid enough to lease seats from any outfit connected to Wyatt will be the likes of Olympic, who were ditched by the legacy carriers (There the ones that pay staff and abide by the ANO)

Whilst I am no fan of Viking, as a former employee of Olympic Holidays I would like to point out that Olympic has always used charter airlines for the bulk of their flying and has never used ´legacy carriers´. Olympic also pay their staff.

[Affretage]

jonieveson

You are right. They used charter carriers like Monarch who have now publicly stated that they no longer wish to be associated with Olympic.

Olympic is probably the last of the "7 nights in Crete, self catering for £99"
tour operators. The others have long disappeared.

Charter airlines are waking up to the fact that they aren't doing themselves any favours flying for people like that.

Cheap seats "PW style" are subsidised by the credit card companies who have to refund strranded passengers at the end of the season.

A holiday costs what it costs. There is no magic formula. If you are offered a holiday for £99, it's a scam, that someone has to pay for.

[Phileas Fogg]

Alas, as a word of warning, I'm of the impression that debit card customers aren't protected the same as credit card customers are.

[mrcabbage]

......please note that some flying staff are now being owed their wages now............how much longer???:(

[TSR2]

please note that some flying staff are now being owed their wages now

From when ?

[Aerofoil]

From what i'v heard the pilots were screwed over royally and are owed wages from september and october also owed is redundancy notice period pay, accrued leave, expenses, per diems, flight pay etc.
Money owed ranges from £11,000 up to around £20,000 for the captains. That is per pilot of course! I believe the pilots have taken legal action against Viking, Viking Hellas and the CEO of Viking. This is most likely the REAL reason Viking Hellas has changed its name to 'fly Hellas'.

[TSR2]

Thanks Aerofoil, that's terrible. It's bad enough losing your job, but to lose your job and be owed some serious money is awful.

[73addict]

And not for the first time either. Deja Vu from XL all over again!!
Oh and the same people involved too! Hmmmm............I smell a rat.:suspect:

[Affretage]

Just heard that Olympic have secured two aircraft from Strategic Airlines for their summer programme.

Strategic Airlines, isn't that the airline which had its French AOC revoked by the DGAC on safety grounds ? Seems the airline had a few Kelloggs cornflakes tokens left and traded them in for an AOC in Luxembourg. The French market is understandably up in arms and fails to understand how Luxembourg could possibly grant an AOC to Strategic, just weeks after the French CAA had revoked their French AOC.

Good choice, Olympic. The words frying pan and fire come to mind.

[sam1993]

And what exactly does this have to do with Viking?

In answer to your question, Strategic Airlines are an Australian airline which did have a French subsidary that was closed down as a result of having its AOC revoked last year. Strategic will start a UK division in time for the summer (see here (http://www.flystrategic.co.uk/)) which Olympic would be using.

The French market is understandably up in arms and fails to understand how Luxembourg could possibly grant an AOC to Strategic, just weeks after the French CAA had revoked their French AOCMaybe because they have evidence that the airline has no safety issues? A country is not going to award an airline an AOC just to annoy a fellow country - safety checks do have to be carried out and Luxembourg are clearly satisfied with the result!

[Northern Hero]

I'm smelling a rat with Tor Air too. A Swedish company, operating for Al Naser Airlines from LGW via Malmo to Baghdad (sound familiar?). And then they suddenly pick up some of the other old Viking Hellas routes under their own flight numbers (see the flytorair website).
Then comes along Sky Middle East airlines operating to BGW also, operating A320's under Tor Air flight numbers.....

Maybe I'm being synical. Or very suspicious, but all looks too familiar for comfort.

It's tragic that the Viking crew have not been paid, especially in this day and age. I know of Viking cabin crew who are still awaiting wages from last August and unable to get P45's. I hope the law suits against Messrs. Wyatt and co. are successful and they get what's owed.

[sam1993]

Northern Hero,
Viking Hellas has recently announced it is changing its name to distance itself from the bankrupt Viking Airlines. With this change comes the closure of the Gatwick base. Only bases in Greece and Cyprus will remain this summer using two Airbus A320's. Therefore, Tor Air will be operating Viking's planned summer programme as Viking now have no aircraft to operate it!

Regarding the Sky Middle East operation, as I understand it, Viking Hellas terminated its contract to operate these flights for Aer Olympic. Aer Olympic hvae now set up this operation jointly with Tor Air to ensure they still have flights to sell this summer.

Maybe this goes some way to explain things? :ok:

[Affretage]

sam1993

- safety checks do have to be carried out and Luxembourg are clearly satisfied with the result!

But the French are not satified at all. Stories of cracked windshields didn't help. Its was all over the press in France and will probably lead to a major fallout between Luxembourg and French authorities. Those of you who can speak French may endulge at www.tourmag.fr (http://www.tourmag.fr) Just do a search for 'Strategic'.

What British consumers should ask themselves is this. Why do Strategic use a .co.uk website address, and proudly announce the opening of a new UK Division, yet opt for a quick fix, no questions asked Luxembourg AOC ? What's wrong with obtaining a proper 'all questions asked' UK AOC ?

Well there are at least half a dozen of French tour operators who cannot wait to enlighten Olympic.

Northern Hero

I'm smelling a rat with Tor Air too.

The Swedish company registery suggests that there has been a recent change of ownership and increase of share capital at Tor Air. Rumour (and this is only a rumour) has it that the Icelander and PW are at it again. I wouldn't be surprised if they are buying Tor Air to continue their ethnic programme to Iraq, now that European tour operators have wisened up to their game.

That's all.

[sam1993]

You cannot possibly be suggesting that Luxembourg authorities would put thousands of passengers safety at risk by awarding Strategic an AOC to annoy the French? I think perhaps not!

Why do Strategic use a .co.uk website address, and proudly announce the opening of a new UK Division, yet opt for a quick fix, no questions asked Luxembourg AOC ? What's wrong with obtaining a proper 'all questions asked' UK AOC ?
I can tell you now the relevant authorities would not allow the airline to begin flights if there was any doubt whatsoever about their safety! EVERY airline operating within the EU has to undergo the same safety checks and maintain the high standards expected, so whether the aircraft are registered in Britain or Luxembourg is completely irrelevant. :ugh:

[A and C]

In theory you are correct about the oversight from the regulatory authoritys under EASA but I can assure you that the standard of oversight decreases as you go south within Europe. (except in Malta that has first class oversight)

[Affretage]

You cannot possibly be suggesting that Luxembourg authorities would put thousands of passengers safety at risk by awarding Strategic an AOC to annoy the French? I think perhaps not!

I am sure they did not set out to annoy the French. Maybe be people in Luxembourg are cut off from the internet like the people in Egypt, or they simply do not read the aviation press.

Luxembourg is a tiny place. How do you expect them to exercise proper oversight over Strategic when their aircraft are based in the UK. I guess this is the exact reason why Startegic chose this bizarre setup.

UK CAA - forewarned is forearmed. Keep your eyes on those windshields :ok:

[Phileas Fogg]

Excuse me guys but having previously lived/worked in Luxembourg, for an airline, and unless things have changed, Luxembourg sub-contract out their Flight Operations Inspectorate to 'Bureau Veritas' of the French CAA.

So any suggestions that Luxembourg are trying to pee off the French, not oversee things correctly, blah blah blah are bullsh1t.

That said, take a French CAA 'Bureau Veritas' inspector out for a bucket of red wine of a lunchtime then you're sure to pass a Flight Ops Inspection!

[LGS6753]

... but only if the wine is French!

[Bugs 2020]

An interesting development in this branch of the market is that Tor Air is expanding operations into the UK, as well as getting two 737-300 for the summer. Their website is much like Viking's. The rather unknown and unsearchable Wings Recruitment Ltd is hiring cabin crew for a Gatwick and a Manchester base (Apply for the Cabin Crew job posted by Wings Recruitment Ltd | AviationJobSearch.com (http://wwww.ewaseetjobs.com/jobs/cabin_crew/uk/cabin_crew-80725.html)) and for cabin crew who must be able to operate into Iraq.

Is all this just a coincidence, or does it seem likely that someone is channeling funds that could have been used to clear off the rest of Viking's debt to their former employees into another non-suspecting blue-eyed Swedish airline keen to expand and wishfully disregarding where the funds are coming from and the list of defunct airlines in their trail, should this be more than a hunch?

[Airbus321-200]

How can people like this get away with setting up dodgy airlines every 2 yrs after the others collapse.

Torair and Viking are connected in a way. If you go to their new very basic www.flytorair.com (http://www.flytorair.com) it gives you a number you can book on. That number is the same www.flyviking.com (http://www.flyviking.com) used! the exact same.

And they seem to have similar strategy as viking had. They are selling flights to Malmo and Gothenberg. In basic terms they are selling tickets on what alot of airlines would just use as a positioning sector.

It really puzzles me as to who would invest with such people. Something will only be done about these airlines after a major incident/accident. And Tor air / viking aren't the only dodgy ones out there.

I know that these airlines aren't generally new start ups but i do feel sorry for the poor airlines who seemed to be promised loads of work and money and are left with a loss and redundancies, plus their name in tatters.

[IB4138]

Tor have one aircraft, a 734, which is leased to Iraqi Al-Nasiri Airways.

That would answer your query on cabin crew being able to operate in Iraq.

FlyTorair.com Limited appears to be a separate company to the airline, formed just this year in the UK. Looks like they are a ticketing agency.

[BOAC]

FlyTorair.com Limited appears to be a separate company to the airline, formed just this year in the UK. Looks like they are a ticketing agency. - look a little deeper? FromFlyTorair.com's 'contact us' page

If you would like to contact us at Torair please see the following details:

My bold. A nod is as good as a wink to a blind man?Any more convincing needed?

[Little Blue]

Same lot....I understand they are looking for staff in GOT and, maybe LUX.
Good luck to anyone who takes the bait !:=

[PFM9003]

FlyTorair.com Limited appears to be a separate company to the airline, formed just this year in the UK. Looks like they are a ticketing agency.

A quick check of the domain name reg (http://whois.domaintools.com/flytorair.com) gives a clue as to who could be behind this (again)!!

[IB4138]

BOAC I have done some more digging.

FlyTorair website states For more information on Torair the airline please see our Torair website...the website of Tor Air AB... a separate legal entity.

Flytorair website makes the distinction between the two companies.

Mathias Jonsson is Director of Flight Operations at Tor Air AB. Same guy, same title, at Fly Me who filed for bankruptcy in 2007. Seems also to be linked (at some stage) to Fly Excellent who operated a couple of MD83s and ceased operation, returning it's aircraft to lessors in December 2008.

Tor Air AB started operations in 2008, receiving it's Swedish Operators Licence on 1st December that year.

[Airbus321-200]

It's normally in September when these companies run into difficulties so i'm sure if you plan on flying with them in july you'll be fine..... maybe a 26hr delay but sure if it's cheap! :}

I hope people will learn to pay a little extra to fly with well estabished airlines like monarch & thomson who know what they're doing and in overall terms give great value for money.:ugh:

[excrab]

Not suprisingly "wings recruitment", the aviation branch of Mountain High Recruitment in Crawley, was also used to place some of the Viking Pilots who are currently in Canada under contract to Sunwings.

A couple of weeks ago Viking were contacting 737 TREs to find out if they had any capacity to conduct training on 737 classics, and the ex base captain from LGW has been asking some of the ex Viking 737 Pilots currently in Canada if they would be interested in some work in the UK over the summer

Meanwhile unknown investors from Iceland have put enough money into Torair, an existing Swedish AOC holder, to start a 737 operation in the UK...

Does anyone really believe that there is no connection, or that this isn't a calculated way to restart the operation without trading as Viking AB and thus avoiding the creditors (including cabin crew, flight crew, engineers, etc etc)?

[Affretage]

Of course Tor Air is nothing other than the continuation of PW's Excel/XL/Viking/Viking Hellas string of failed airlines. And of course, the UK's independent tour operators are so stupid that they will once again buy into this scam. But PW's potential market has shrunk considerably, what with Argo, Libra, Gold Trail, Flight Options, Kiss all gone. Who wants to book with Tor Air this year, and join the list ?

The CAA's ATOL bond criteria should be based on a tour operator's choice of carrier. That would soon put an end to all this nonsense.

[jurisdiction]

Tor Air suddenly has new investors and magnificent web pages looking like a clone of those of Viking Airlines and Viking Hellas. Viking Airlines is showing no intent of new business this spring, and Tor Air suddenly has got two 737-300s coming in for the summer and are selling tickets from England to all over Europe.

Considering Viking's ownership practice regarding external crew lease companies nobody has heard of before, and the non-payment practice of salaries and expenses due to flight and cabin crew, it should be fair to assume that prospective employees should consider taking a closer look at the new ownership structures in Sweden, and which investor group would appear to be there to "help" the benign Tor Air triple it's fleet this summer. Should any connection be found, advance pay and a company credit card for expenses would be a good start.

[BOAC]

Interested readers (hopefully the CAA?) might wish to visit MERIDIAN AVIATION UK LIMITED of RH6 0HA in GATWICK AIRPORT WEST SUSSEX (http://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/ltd/meridian-aviation-uk). The
"People connected with the Company"


have a familiar odour about them. do you feel?

From companies records:

MR HALLDOR SIGURDARSON

KOSMAR TRAVEL LIMITED (http://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/ltd/kosmar-travel)
KOSMAR VILLA HOLIDAYS PUBLIC LIMITED COMPANY (http://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/ltd/kosmar-villa-holidays-public-company)
BPI UK LIMITED (http://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/ltd/bpi-uk)
MERIDIAN AVIATION UK LIMITED (http://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/ltd/meridian-aviation-uk)



HALLDOR SIGURDARSON

XL AIRWAYS UK LIMITED (http://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/ltd/xl-airways-uk)
EXCEL AVIATION LIMITED (http://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/ltd/excel-aviation)
AIR ATLANTA EUROPE LIMITED (http://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/ltd/air-atlanta-europe)
BPI UK LIMITED (http://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/ltd/bpi-uk)
BA2PM LIMITED (http://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/ltd/ba2pm)



HALDOR SIGURDARSON

XL LEISURE GROUP PLC (http://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/ltd/xl-leisure-group)



MR HALLDOR HRAFNSSON

AIRCRAFT TECHNICAL MANAGEMENT & CONSULTATION LIMITED (http://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/ltd/aircraft-technical-management-consultation)



MR HALLDOR BJAKAR LUGVIGSSON

INTERBULK GROUP PLC (http://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/ltd/interbulk-group)



HALLDOR KRISTJANSSON

HERITABLE BANK PUBLIC LIMITED COMPANY (http://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/ltd/heritable-bank-public-company)
LANDSBANKI SECURITIES (UK) HOLDINGS PLC (http://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/ltd/landsbanki-securities-%28uk%29-holdings)



HALLDOR SIGURJONSSON

KUDOS DIGITAL GROUP LIMITED (http://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/ltd/kudos-digital-group)



HALLDOR HRAFNSSON

AIRCRAFT TECHNICAL MANAGEMENT & CONSULTATION LIMITED (http://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/ltd/aircraft-technical-management-consultation)

Anyone remember Black Pearl investements (BPI?). I is also worth re-visiting the dormant thread 'Kiss Air'.

Question for today - What is the difference between the CAA and kid with candy?

I wonder when Phil Lintott-Clarke will re-surface?

[Affretage]

Nice research BOAC

The trouble is that the CAA's employees couldn't care less. Whenever there is a call on the travel trust fund, it isn't their money, it's the tax payer that is being asked to bail out these crooks.

PW and HS should be prevented from acting as shareholders and/or company directors of travel companies.

[Button-pusher]

Torair flights from Manchester start next week. Handling agent has already been prepped and are ready for next weeks flights....

1 x Monday checkin open at 3am for a 6am DEP
1 x Thursday checkin open at 3am for a 6am DEP

Flights will increase to 6 per week in the summer, all flights will be routed via Gothenburg.

As for Viking Hellas, they are still going to operate a summer schedule from MAN, but loads will obviously decrease as a result of Torair.....

As for Strategic Air, they also are planning a full Summer schedule from MAN, to both Greece and Cyrus

[Affretage]

Button-pusher

All good and well. Put on the flights and they will come. Or will they ? With all the media coverage of PW and his companies, are travel agents going to risk booking their clients with these companies, especially in view of the proposed new ATOL rules making travel agencies liable in the event of the airline's failure ? The rules will change the game forever.

Here's what the papers have: -

Source: Travel Weekly Feb 28, 2011 07:44

Media pursuit of former XL bosses continues

Attempts by former directors of XL Leisure Group to draw a line under their association with the most costly failure in industry history risk being undone by continued media interest in their new business ventures.
The Sunday Times reported yesterday that former XL Leisure chief executive Phil Wyatt and business associate Halldor Sigurdarson had become directors of Gatwick-based Meridian Aviation.
In fact, Wyatt has been a director of Meridian since last November - as Travel Weekly revealed in December (http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/Articles/2010/12/16/35556/analysis+viking+airlines+prospects+divide+uk+trade.html). Sigurdarson was an executive at Swedish charter carrier Viking Airlines AB, now in bankruptcy protection in Sweden and seeking fresh investment.
Meridian acted as general sales agent (GSA) for Viking Airlines and is run by Wyatt's brother Jim. Phil Wyatt was a part-owner of Viking through investment company Black Pearl Investments UK (BPI UK) which he set up. The Sunday Times referred to Meridian's lack of an Atol, but as a GSA Meridian would not require one.
Wyatt refuses to comment on his business activities following persistent press speculation that he benefited in some way from the collapse of XL Leisure in 2008 - an allegation he denies. He and his associates believe the press interest is unfairly tarnishing other businesses by association - a belief shared by some independent tour operators.
The Sunday Times report noted that Kiss Flights, which folded last year, was sold by Meridian. Kiss failed in August 2010 after adding capacity and taking on many of the customers who had lost holidays when Goldtrail Travel failed in July.
Goldtrail's unexpected collapse remains the subject of an inquiry and about one third of potential claims from Goldtrail clients remain outstanding. However, Travel Weekly understands the Civil Aviation Authority views the Kiss failure as a model of how consumer protection should work.
Viking Airlines operated a substantial number of flights for Goldtrail and is believed to have lost a considerable sum of money from the company's failure to complete its summer 2010 programme. No one from Meridian was available to comment.

[Button-pusher]

well in my opinion i dont think travel agents will buy into torair..

[Affretage]

cant understand why Torair is starting up when VKH cant achieve 100% loads....

Like locusts, PW and friends have moved on and left Viking Hellas (who have now been renamed Fly Hellas to avoid association with Viking). So if VKH want to continue to fly to Iraq, they will be in direct competition with Tor Air, PW's new venture.

Seems that some people will never understand that there is no money to be made in ethnic flights to Iraq. But then, maybe that isn't the plan after all. Just run the flights for a while, take big tour operator deposits, and leave unpaid Eurocontrol bills, salaries and aircraft leasing payments in your wake. It's a different way of making money I guess ?

[AH727]

Viking Airlines has now officially applied for bankruptcy:

Verksamhet & Status - Viking Airlines AB (http://www.allabolag.se/5564515251/verksamhet)

"Konkurs inledd 2011-02-28"

Bankruptcy started 2011-02-28.

[Affretage]

AH727

Are you surprised ? The money that is missing in Viking has been pumped in to Tor Airlines. Any tour operator who books flights with them is just as guilty as the people behind this scam. When is someone going to step up and put a stop to this ?

[AH727]

Afftretage, I am not surprised at all.

I am wondering about the timing though, they could have done this earlier.

[Ellie Vator]

On the link Fly Tor Air (http://flytorair.com/errors/noJS.cfm) it comes up Viking Airlines with a copyright stamp 2009 Fly Tor Air. Legally that links the two.

09/03/2011 = Just looked again and suddenly Viking has disappeared and it now says Tor Air ;)

[Godfrey Newman]

There I was wanting to book a flight from Gatwick to Samos but they don't go there now. In fact something has happened to them. Anybody know? Rather reduces choice.

[mark25787]

A quick google check to Viking Airlines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viking_Airlines) reveals


Viking Airlines ceased operations on 18 October 2010 and was granted protection from creditors and placed in the hands of an administrator on 2 December 2010.[2] (http://www.pprune.org/#cite_note-1)

[LGWAlan]

Godfrey - there are 2 flights LGW-SMI for S11 - one operated by Tor-air departing LGW 0620 returning to the UK via LXS, and the TUI flight which is direct - both on Thursdays - pm for more detail

[Airbourne-Adamski]

I was talking to an ex Viking cabin crew member (who was also Excel) and she still has many close friends ex Viking/Excel and many of them have been contacted asking if the want to join TorAir, none of them have accepted, mmm wonder why :cool:

And also a TorAir A/C was supposedly in-pounded in Southend for not paying the bills for a A/C livery paint (this apparently was last week).

[airferries]

There is a Viking Hellas A320, which has been at Southend for maintenance with ATC Lasham since the beginning of October. Is that the impounded aircraft?

[TSR2]

And also a TorAir A/C was supposedly in-pounded in Southend for not paying the bills for a A/C livery paint (this apparently was last week).

Careful, unsubstantiated allegations can be damaging.

[Phileas Fogg]

If ex XL/Viking crew are being contacted by TorAir is is not illegal, data protection or whatever, for a (past) employer to divulge such personal contact information(s) to a third party?

Can somebody be sued here? :)

[plumponpies]

Here we go again.....yawn.:zzz:

[Button-pusher]

[FONT=Garamond]for your info guys the MAN-GOT flights (TOR Air) is being operated by a Balkan a320 for the moment,

[Airbourne-Adamski]

Quote:
And also a TorAir A/C was supposedly in-pounded in Southend for not paying the bills for a A/C livery paint (this apparently was last week). Careful, unsubstantiated allegations can be damaging.

Sorry was not making allegations, was more of an enquiry following a chat with a ex Viking crew member who made this comment.



If ex XL/Viking crew are being contacted by TorAir is is not illegal, data protection or whatever, for a (past) employer to divulge such personal contact information(s) to a third party?

Not sure, I have heard from several people (ex Viking) they have been contacted regarding working for TorAir.

[Yorkshire-Pud]

I think what some of you underestimate is that there just isn't the capacity around for tour operators and the like to contract. You try finding a net rate at a decent price from some of the bigger players, not only that but believe it or not some of them turn down work because they don't have crews to crew their aircraft.

Some of them may not like working with TorAir/Viking etc, much in the same way I hate flying with Ryanair, but there are few choices also they have to consider as a commercial 'risk' it MAY be better to do so to facilitate them making money not necessarily on the seats per se but maybe on the holiday they are also flogging.

Much in the same way, from a crew perspective - it may actually suit some to be based somewhere near where they live as opposed to having a long commute or working away from 'home' - OK so they have to go figure whether working 6 months and only getting paid for 5 is an attractive proposition .....especially if this is the 3rd time !

Seems to me there are lots of cabin crew jobs around, the pilots may not be so lucky

[GemStA]

Dont think the "contacting and offering of jobs" is illegal as made out above. I for one would always be grateful that a former employer / manager etc would think of me to offer a position in new companies / ventures.... Always nice to feel wanted :) and its only a phonecall after all you are not being forced against your will to join up!!!!

If I didnt like it then " thanks but no thanks" would suffice...

If however it was a viable option for me then I would be happy to accept.

I for one hope that Tor CONTINUES as it has done so far (since 2008) and that the move into the UK market is a success...

[on time all the time]

well Gemsta, I don't think you measure the problem. Here is a guy who keeps failing and is allowed to start all over again and again and again. The Excel bankrupcy may have been due to economic circumstances but remember, rebranding, new colours new uniforms, shopping spree (airlines abroad), sponsoring of a football team and lots of directors paid £1 million plus.....
Then comes Viking , Phil Wyatt reappears things seems to be ok when one of the main client collapses in dodgy circumstances. And then Viking dissappeared in even more dodgy circumstances owing money to its staff.....and then TOR appears....with what money and who behing Phil Wyatt. I tell you Gemsta any T/O who would give TOR air any work is irresponsible. And I have a great pleasure to see TOR aircraft being on the ground when I am about to take off.
If you look at the TOR fleet, there is one B737 registered in Sweden. I always wonder why Sweden which is so modern, wealthy and upmarket...has had so many dodgy airlines in the past....But this not the subject. And then there 2 more aircrafts each one coming from a different country both not renowned for their airline expertise....
So yes I find it unfair that such a dodgy outfit is allowed to re-surface on the back od lots of money that people are still owed and tries to get the people owed money to work for them again....

[leisurelad]

Guys can we please put this into some kind of prospective.

Ok, yes, people are owed monies, yes he and his clan is obviously connected in some way but lets look at a few things.

Firstly, TOR Air were about before Viking went, yes they were plodding along and now they have a chance for expansion with what looks to be investment from the same people behind viking.

Business is Business and they are only in it to make money, the way the world works. Many companies close and reopen as something else all the time so this is not something new, just happens to be reported more as it affects more people, both staff and customers.

Whilst TOR Air is selling seats directly, the bulk of their business is sold directly through tour operators who have chartered the flights and therefore TOR Air should have their costs covered as seats bought in bulk. So if they sell the whole flight but the tour operator only sells 50 seats, it shouldn't make a difference to the actual airline, its the tour operator who bear the cost.
Unless of course there is some kind of agreement that TOR Air have with them that they can give back their unsold seats, very unlikley though.

I personally whish them well and those that are being contacted to see if they want a job, its you choice, take it or leave it, no one is forcing you to work for them, but for others, some enjoy this kind of set up and will take it for what it is, whether it lasts a year or 10yrs.

I've been there and got the t-shirt with another outfit that came out of sweden but if they restarted and i was asked to go back, i'd probably consider it but only take it for what it is and have fun because it was probably the funniest job i have ever had, yes i was out of pocket but it would be the same with any other company if they went bust.

For those keep going on about how much they lost, this shouldn't be allowed, get a grip and get on with it or if it really upsets you that much, go and protest outside your MP's house and tell them how much the world owes you.
There are bigger things in life to worry about and whilst it is not nice, it happens every day to people.

Rant Over

[A and C]

Quote:-For those keep going on about how much they lost, this shouldn't be allowed, get a grip and get on with it or if it really upsets you that much, go and protest outside your MP's house and tell them how much the world owes you.
There are bigger things in life to worry about and whilst it is not nice, it happens every day to people

I would agree with you were it not for the fact that the ex Viking management have not bankrupted Viking VIP the company that employed the Viking staff, if they did the staff could get some money from the govenment redundency program.

So now you might see why the actions (or lack of action) of the ex-viking management are the subject of so much anger.

Viking VIP is a shell company that is going nowere and it would not cost the ex viking management a penny to bankrupt but they have not done this and are preventing the ex staff geting the govenment money that is due to them.

Those of you who are are thinking of taking a job with Tor air should keep this in mind when budgeting in the future. I do understand that any job is better than no job but go in with your eyes open and expect to be short of payment in the long run.

[Ellie Vator]

Agree with you A & C.
How is Tor Air doing this summer so far. Is it the same desperate sad story of Viking holding up passengers so keen to get on their hard earned hols, or is it proving to be reliable (I hope)?

[Cool Wavy NG738]

Well to get a good idea of how they are doing, the Air Travel forum on Trip Advisor should do the trick if you do a search on Tor Air.
It would appear one particular Leopard isn't very good at changing it's spots. :rolleyes:

[on time all the time]

Hi,
As mentioned on the theTor air thread the difficulty is that Viking was a Swedish Airline therefore the British system did not apply.
I have flown with a girl who worked for both Viking and Viking hellas and in both cases was not paid her last wages being owed over £3000 in total.
They as a group tried to do something but not much could be done because none were under british juridiction.
i left Gatwick on Tuesday and saw a Viking Hellas jet taxying....it made me cringe..

[OutsideCAS]

Just found this thread after a search on a CL600 at OXF (G-NREG), and noticed there seems a link between the registered owners of G-NREG (from G-INFO) and a dissolved company called skymiddleeast uk ltd. which is listed as having a director by the name of Halldor Sigurdarson. Is this the same person who was involved with Meridian Aviation ?

[stallio]

The former boss of collapsed operator XL Leisure is facing a £4m legal action over his involvement with Goldtrail, which went bust in 2010.
Legal papers have been served on Phil Wyatt, accusing him of "providing dishonest assistance" to Goldtrail owner, Abdulkadir Aydin.
The collapse of Goldtrail at the start of the peak summer season cost the Air Travel Trust Fund almost £25m and forced the CAA to repatriate 23,500 passengers and refund more than 75,000 with forward bookings.
Wyatt is accused of advising Aydin, together with two associates from his investment vehicle Black Pearl, on the removal of funds from Goldtrail and the transfer of deposits to an offshore account in the Seychelles five months before the company was placed in administration.
Of the total £4m being sought by Goldtrail"s liquidators, the claim against Mr Wyatt and his associates is £1.4m. It is also thought another Turkish airline is being pursued.
Goldtrail's liquidators PwC, led by administrator Ian Oakley-Smith, have served Wyatt with an order to appear in court and it is waiting for his response.
Aydin is accused of "breaching his fiduciary duty and making unlawful dividend payments", but PwC has been unable so far to serve court papers on Aydin, who is a Turkish national.
Wyatt has also been linked to other failed ventures, including Viking Airlines AB which suspended services from the UK in October 2010, and Tor Air, which collapsed last December.

[TSR2]

I sympathise with your predicament. If it was me, I certainly would feel exactly the same.

Suppose you could always send him a pm 'of support;)' if you read post 338 on this thread.

[BOAC]

......or pop over to where he lives - mind you, it's not HIS house, of course. I guess he has very few 'assets'. If you want the address...........................