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Roger Sofarover
20th Jan 2009, 12:58
Watching the news, the atmosphere is clearly building in Washington DC with an estimated 1 Million people already in the 'mall' area. Estimates of up to 2 Million people are given for the final number to watch the ceremony.

I feel this is one of those special days that happens rarely, when you say 'I was there' or 'where were you at Obama's Inauguration'.

There is a growing sense and expectation that Obama could be the man to make a difference. He certainly seems to be modeling his ideas on Lincoln in terms of style and administration. The news channels are referring to this moment as similar to Kennedy or FDR, even Reagan. I think it is going to be bigger. A disillusioned people suddenly seem filled with hope. Thats great for the US and in turn will be great for the rest of us.

Congratulations USA, the first African American President, democracy has come of age, and history is being made. No wonder Obama has looked to Lincoln for inspiration. Lincoln must be doing somersaults watching this one.

How does one man carry such responsibility, not just by virtue of the position he is about to take, but the fact he is carrying the hopes of so many hundreds of millions on his shoulders (inlcuding mine).

Good Luck today USA and President Obama:ok::ok::ok::D:D:D

airfoilmod
20th Jan 2009, 13:13
I am jostled at the comparison twixt Barack and Abe. Not because Barack isn't possessed of the mettle, (time will tell). What qualified Lincoln as "great" was his fortuitous presence on the stage of inevitability. A "Uniter",
He ended up being praised for coalescing populism with Blood, and Guts.
He was not instantly revered, except by the usual suspects (Northeast merchants) and Lecompton democrats. The South was reluctant to praise a man who had seemingly without regard (seemingly) reduced State's Rights to inconsequential levels.

Similarly, the "Stage" appears to be set for a consequential shuddering of the American ethic. I'm no prophet, but the Train is hurtling, and no one's at the throttle.

AF

Captain Speedbird
20th Jan 2009, 13:13
Its called the Tony Blair effect. They will get over it soon enough. They can have their hour in the sun, but does anyone over 50 fall for this crap?
Pass the sick bag.

airfoilmod
20th Jan 2009, 13:19
Well over 50, thank you, and skeptical. Difficult to understand the investment before the Prospectus, No? I admire the man; he's from Chicago and still has both his kneecaps.

If you think the Civil War was about slavery, think again. Freedom? absolutely, Slavery? Not a chance.

Storminnorm
20th Jan 2009, 13:50
I think I'm REALLY going to miss George Dubya.!!!!

Andy_S
20th Jan 2009, 13:51
There is a growing sense and expectation that Obama could be the man to make a difference.

Which he has happily fuelled. And there's the problem. Surely the expectations have become so great that he has virtually set himself up to disappoint.

I remember another young leader who was swept to power on a tide of public goodwill. Who seemed like a breath of fresh air. Who promised that everything was going to be different from now on - indeed, things could only get better. There would be justice and fairness, divisions would be healed and we would all march confidently towards a bright new dawn, united, confident, a nation at ease with itself.

The kindest thing I can say is that his actions failed to live up to his lofty rhetoric. I do hope Obama avoids falling into the same trap.

Storminnorm
20th Jan 2009, 13:56
Who you talking about JFK or B Liar? I'm confused. :confused:

Andy_S
20th Jan 2009, 13:58
There was a giveaway clue in my second paragraph.

airfoilmod
20th Jan 2009, 13:59
But JFK beat Nixon by only one vote per precinct. Scant tsunami of adulation. Politics is salesmanship and branding. It isn't even embarrassing that Nixon got so close, Tricky Dick and Honest John had gobs more in common with each other than with us. It is an illusion to differentiate more than a whisper one candidate from another. What happens after inauguration is what's real, and hasn't happened yet. Worry is an insult to reality.

AF

And that's my point, Andy; Stormin thought B Liar (Blair or Willy?) I thought JFK. Peas in a GD pod.

TBirdFrank
20th Jan 2009, 14:09
Blair came in after eighteen years of socially divisive white socked spivs running the show, amid a perceived economic boom. He was expected to do something to make a difference.

He didn't.

He just did more of the same in pale pink, and absolutely nothing that would scare the horses - then with immaculate timing he moved on - leaving GB to face the downturn.

Obama is coming in at the low point, economically, militarily, and spiritually - or if it isn't - then please God we're not far off it!

His greatest contribution could be simply morale - so I for one will reserve judgement.

We need change - Dear God do we need it!

Only time will tell if he is man enough to match his stunning rhetoric!

Avitor
20th Jan 2009, 14:22
To date, Obama has outlined his oratory gift, a gift that comes in handy in opposition. (like Vince Cable)
To be in the hot seat requires action, on those words.
Is he up to it, are we going to see someone similar to the South African, Nelson Mandela?
How do the KKK see him? :oh:

Storminnorm
20th Jan 2009, 14:44
WTF HAS NELSON MANDELA GOT TO DO WITH IT??????

I still can't figure out WHY he's so REVEERED.
Seems like a nice guy, so what? So am I, but
no-one's putting up statues of ME anywhere.
And I've never been in jail!!!!!

The KKK don't see much of anything from under
those bedsheets.

verticalhold
20th Jan 2009, 15:02
While I am pleased that Obama won (from this side of the pond the Republicans came over as turkeys and the Clinton mob were too in bed with B.Liar and tainted with scandal) who the hell voted him as leader of the free world. I live in part of the free world and didn't get to vote for or against him.
He is President of the USA. The rest of us have our own thoughts, beliefs and politics. They are ours, they may not be those of the USA, but they belong to us as free citizens of free countries. The USA is one nation, admittedly powerful, but it does not lead this country any more than it leads any other.

Rant over: utterly fed up with the coverage of an innauguration 6000 miles away when we have problems enough to deal with and a friend has just died in Helmand meriting barely a mention.

VH

Storminnorm
20th Jan 2009, 15:07
A friend just died in Helmand sort of puts it into perspective I think.
How many more?

Captain Stable
20th Jan 2009, 15:27
How do the KKK see him?Probably through the sights of one of these:-
http://www.huntingriflesreviews.com/images/remington-rifles-1.jpg

Evanelpus
20th Jan 2009, 15:49
Watching the news, the atmosphere is clearly building in Washington DC with an estimated 1 Million people already in the 'mall' area. Estimates of up to 2 Million people are given for the final number to watch the ceremony.

On lunchtime TalkSport news that figure was quoted as 4 million.

Anyway, good luck to the bloke, he's gonna need it. I'm still convinced someone, somewhere, someday is going to take a potshot at him.

mr fish
20th Jan 2009, 16:23
i saw him on the news doing some PR PAINTING yesterday.
sorry to say he knows nowt about rollering emulsion, one cuts in first with a brush!!!
he might be the most powerful man on earth but i bet im a better decorater.
yet again its one rule for us jobbing DIYers and another for these "most powerful men on earth types"!!!

Storminnorm
20th Jan 2009, 16:27
I was mildly amused by the remark made by one Lady about
having made arrangements to sleep in a church overnight.
She said it wouldn't be a problem as she normally slept
through the sermons anyhow. :ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok:

Let's face it Mr Fish, he has staff to do the cutting in now!
I'll get him to give you a call if he needs any more doing.

General_Kirby
20th Jan 2009, 16:45
Why does George W Bush get introduced as "George Walker Bush" and Obama get introduced as Barack H Obama? Ahh I see the commentator thinks the same as me....

Roger Sofarover
20th Jan 2009, 16:52
Wow, this is a bit of a lengthy prayer! Or is he giving a sermon!!

Storminnorm
20th Jan 2009, 16:53
What? What? What?
There's nowt wrong wi' Hussein is there?
Good Yorkshire name that!

General_Kirby
20th Jan 2009, 16:54
Im bored now, be on your way Pastor!

Fg Off Max Stout
20th Jan 2009, 16:57
Err, this thing Urethra Franklin is singing now... sounds like a bastardised version of the British National Anthem with pimped lyrics? Bizarre.

BigJoeRice
20th Jan 2009, 16:58
"Its called the Tony Blair effect. They will get over it soon enough. They can have their hour in the sun, but does anyone over 50 fall for this crap?

I'm with you Captain Speedbird; what we're seeing here today is the biggest con job on the American people since the Gulf of Tonkin.

Roger Sofarover
20th Jan 2009, 16:58
Err, this thing Urethra Franklin is singing now... sounds like a bastardised version of the British National Anthem with pimped lyrics? Bizarre.


:}:}:} Thats what I was thinking

Loose rivets
20th Jan 2009, 17:01
Rivetess will be watching the whole shebang. Watched on the big telly while I had me breakfast. Just like being there, 'midst the big crowd. 'sept I can nip out for a pee.:}

Storminnorm
20th Jan 2009, 17:14
Isn't that pimped version of our National Anthem called
"God Bless America"?

Dushan
20th Jan 2009, 17:15
Immaculation taking place now...
Are we saved yet?

Crepello
20th Jan 2009, 17:19
The song's called "My country 'tis of thee" or just "America". (Not sure who held the copyright...)

A proud day for America and for the world.

Pugilistic Animus
20th Jan 2009, 17:20
Urethra Franklin

Oh come the :mad: on you sound like an asshole with that comment:*



Lester:E

VinRouge
20th Jan 2009, 17:33
That bird reading the poem was awful.

Any Anyone from America on thread like to comment?


I am all with brothers gettin a fair share of the mike, but are they going to let a honkky onto the tv soon?

I reckon there is a good sweepstake on at Capitol Hill to get a word like "flange" into the prayer.

1DC
20th Jan 2009, 17:37
Well i hope he makes a good job of it, Lord knows someone has got to get the confidence back into the world.
I bet Laura is quietly sitting there and saying Thank God it is all over..

Roger Sofarover
20th Jan 2009, 17:37
The prayers have both been that long that I bet even God has got bored and changed channel.

Rollingthunder
20th Jan 2009, 17:43
Gush, Gush, Gush

It just makes me sick. 120 days later, let's see how it is then. All the black population thinking everything is now going to change for them....a big handout due to colour..... pull up your boots.

Ivor_Novello
20th Jan 2009, 17:49
It doesn't make me sick.
The 8 years just passed, that makes me sick !

goudie
20th Jan 2009, 17:52
Americans are in the 'Last Chance Saloon' along with many other Countries. Let's hope they do a reality check now and support President Obama in his attempts to reverse the downward spiral. The World will be watching.


All the black population thinking everything is now going to change for them....a big handout due to colour.....

As opposed to a handout and favours cos you're white!

AntiCrash
20th Jan 2009, 18:05
The man did not use a teleprompter! It's good to have a leader that can maintain a train of thought.

I pray now for some non-partisan elbo grease so we can get the wheels back on the carriage.:D

seacue
20th Jan 2009, 18:11
Comment from stateside.

I glaze over at the "culture" injected into this sort of event. Songs sung by cult performers, Poems no one really wants to hear. Serious music played by doubtlessly talented performers, but what connection is there? At least the Navy group singing the National Anthem did a respectable job. I'm not into long prayers/sermons.

I guess they have to pad the event since the core portion only requires five minutes followed by a speech ... not too long this time.

Glad I didn't even consider going downtown to freeze with the crowds.

Captain Stable
20th Jan 2009, 18:20
Good stuff. I liked the closing prayer - that little black guy had balls AND wit!

Hugh Welshtwit referred to "My Country, 'Tis of Thee" as the National Anthem :rolleyes:, kept quiet all through Aretha's appalling singing (she's past it, ain't she? Give it up, dear) and then kept bloody chattering through Yitzhak Perlman and Yo Yo Ma :rolleyes: :ooh:

I noticed several digs at GWB in BHO's speech. Good stuff. :ok:

West Coast
20th Jan 2009, 18:31
I didn't vote for him, but enough did that he's the President. That makes him my President. I have a vested interest in his success, so he has my support.

After reading some of your comments, I hope never to end up as cynical as many on this thread.

VinRouge
20th Jan 2009, 18:32
All I can say is thank **** the 43rd president is out!!! :ok:

merlinxx
20th Jan 2009, 18:43
The so called "Specially Written" piece for the strings, oboe & piano, why did it sound just like Lord of the Dance ?

TwoOneFour
20th Jan 2009, 18:55
That President Obama, not doing a very good job, is he? I mean, look at the state of the country. :suspect:

GetTheFlick
20th Jan 2009, 19:14
After reading some of your comments, I hope never to end up as cynical as many on this thread.

Well said, WC. As much as I like and admire the Englsih...

Take it from a white man that grew up in the South. Hate does not win -- in the end. Hope is eternal. America's day in the sun is not over. Today was not possible in any other nation the Earth has ever seen. I hope it is but a beginning. Not just for America, but the world.

Just as we still celebrate the contributions of the Roman and British Empires to the world, I hope too, we will celebrate this latest, reluctant empire of America. There will be embarassments and evils. I pray that they will be smaller than our sucesses -- and the good that we can do.

My heart tells me that today was one of America's better days.

Don Brown

david_gannon
20th Jan 2009, 19:17
great post GTF, i'm off to cheer myself up....far to cynical on this post but thats old tories for you

AJMortimer
20th Jan 2009, 19:20
I feel a sense of foreboding.

I hope this story has a happy ending?!

AJ

LIMA OR ALPHA JUNK
20th Jan 2009, 19:25
Good luck Obama,

Behind the eloquent, articulate oratory (woefully lacking in his predecessor), it appears the man has almost worldwide respect and is determined to restore the USA's image in the eyes of the world.

The end of torture, Guantanamo, a withdrawal from the Iraq catastrophe and a willingness to engage with Iran is a breath of fresh and I wish him well. The dreadful economic mess he has been left is going to be a huge challenge but his speeches inspire and he carries great hope.

AntiCrash
20th Jan 2009, 19:25
The ditty played by some of the worlds finest musicians was Applachian Spring, written by Aaron Copeland. The time it was written was in the Great Depression. Appalacia being one of the most depressed if not beautiful areas at the time. The music brings to mind the burgeoning life that accompanies the Spring which gives hope after the long and dreary Winter.

AJMortimer
20th Jan 2009, 19:39
Let's all hope so.

AJ

TwoOneFour
20th Jan 2009, 19:55
Obama just mentioned thoughts being with "Teddy" during the inaugural lunch, at the same time reports coming in about a senator keeling over. Ted Kennedy, I presume?

11Fan
20th Jan 2009, 20:05
Senator Ted Kennedy taken away by ambulance after suffering convulsions during the luncheon.

con-pilot
20th Jan 2009, 20:05
Ted Kennedy, I presume?

Yes, Ted Kennedy suffered a seizure during the luncheon and has been taken to hospital. The ambulance did not have its emergency lights or siren activated when it left, so probably not too serious.

Roger Sofarover
20th Jan 2009, 20:11
Con

I just hope that the lack of lights and sirens does not mean the opposite! Very sad. Still no news on him.

Just hearing on the news that Senator Robert Byrd aged in his 90s and a serving Senator for more than 50 years was also taken ill at the lunch.

bnt
20th Jan 2009, 20:26
I wonder if Obama has seen the whole of the White House yet? If he's unlucky, it might look like this (http://www.b3ta.com/board/9109427) (slightly offensive). :ooh:

con-pilot
20th Jan 2009, 20:38
I just hope that the lack of lights and sirens does not mean the opposite! Very sad. Still no news on him.


Well you are quite correct, it could mean just the opposite, however, in this case reports are coming in that Kennedy has greatly improved and plans to rejoin the activities. Apparently these types of seizures are common to people that have the type of treatment for brain cancer as Kennedy has undergone.



Now the question is, will the Secret Service allow Obama to get out of the Beast and walk?

Roger Sofarover
20th Jan 2009, 20:43
Con

Have just seen that, which is promising news. As for getting out the beast, it is now, just when Obama thinks he is the boss, he will find out the opposite when he is told, 'you will sit there Mr President and stay in the car' :}:}

Parapunter
20th Jan 2009, 20:45
What GTF said. Those commenting on here who can't find the good grace to welcome the commander in chief on his first day at the office, well I'm glad I never had to work for any of you.

None of us know what the future holds, but we sure know the past. Obama may suceed, he may fail but whatever comes his way, I'll be having a beer or three with the bunch that hope for tomorrow & wish the guy well.

con-pilot
20th Jan 2009, 20:49
'you will sit there Mr President and stay in the car'

Yup, no more running down to the corner Deli for a hot pastrami on rye. I do know that Clinton sneaked out of the White House a few times, drove his protection detail crazy.

er340790
20th Jan 2009, 20:59
Don't get me wrong, I wish BHO and the US all the best.....

That said, I have to confess that I only watched the inauguration live on the off-chance that he would get assassinated! Each time the TV cameras zoomed in on him I cringed, half-expecting the exploding watermelon scene from Day of the Jackal.

Let's face it, with 4 actual and 90+ attempted assassination attempts on the 43 previous presidents to date, you kind of have to question the sanity of anyone, esp with a young family, putting themselves in that position.

Public service my a**e! Presidential-sized ego more like.

11Fan
20th Jan 2009, 21:03
The Black Chevy Silverado's should be pulling up in front of your house any second now.

Don't worry about answering the door. They'll let themselves in.

Roger Sofarover
20th Jan 2009, 21:03
er340790

That said, I have to confess that I only watched the inauguration live on the off-chance that he would get assassinated! Each time the TV cameras zoomed in on him I cringed, half-expecting the exploding watermelon scene from Day of the Jackal.

Public service my a**e! Presidential-sized ego more like


you have the nomination for the most sad individual of the day award, any seconders?:rolleyes::rolleyes:

con-pilot
20th Jan 2009, 21:04
Okay, they're out and walking. I loved the expressions on the protection detail.


"Oh shit, he's getting out."

Roger Sofarover
20th Jan 2009, 21:11
Con

I am sure the guy in front of The President was 27 when they started a mile ago, he looks 43 already.

Oh and back inside!

con-pilot
20th Jan 2009, 21:14
Yup, that little stroll didn't last long.

"Okay Mr. President, you've had your fun, now back in the car! Half of the protection detail have had heart attacks."

Captain Stable
20th Jan 2009, 21:18
The so called "Specially Written" piece for the strings, oboe & piano, why did it sound just like Lord of the Dance ?Because it was based on an old Shaker tune called "Simple Gifts", on which Sydney Carter based the tune for his hymn Lord of the DanceThe ditty played by some of the worlds finest musicians was Applachian Spring, written by Aaron Copeland.No, it was specially written for the inauguration by John Williams. It was called "Air and Simple Gifts". He used the tune "Simple Gifts", which Aaron Copland [note spelling] also used as the basis for Appalachian Spring.

Roger Sofarover
20th Jan 2009, 21:25
Some strange comments so far by the commentators on Sky.

'President Clinton and her husband who is of course now Secretary of State':}

'The thing I have liked is the number of children of all shapes and sizes that have turned up for the parade' :}

They are talking drivel.

con-pilot
20th Jan 2009, 21:28
Oops, he's out again.

Captain Stable
20th Jan 2009, 21:31
I bet Monica Lewinsky didn't say that... :ooh: :E

FLCH
20th Jan 2009, 21:38
I didn't hear you correctly the first time Capt.Stable come again ? :)

Parapunter
20th Jan 2009, 22:52
I thought Obama's inauguration speech was a bit of a downer

Well, one from the communicator and the listener was a realist. I mean what did you expect? Have you read a newspaper in the last eighteen months??

CarltonBrowne the FO
20th Jan 2009, 23:05
con-pilot,your post #79 could not have put it better. Good luck to your new president, and I hope those who did not vote for him are pleasantly surprised.
On a more personal note, am I the only one who is mightily glad that GWB no longer has access to the launch codes? :p

Roger Sofarover
21st Jan 2009, 00:00
But he will miss it all, doesn't he have to attend 10? maybe 20 mins each? Bummer!

Bucket
21st Jan 2009, 01:40
Give the guy a chance. He deserves a chance...

To all who think ill of him or wish him same, shame on you. Like it or not if he succeeds then that bodes well for the rest of us in some way so get a life and not be such a bunch of lousy cynical gits. Is this how you live your life?

What goes around comes around. He's not my President and the USA is not my home but I wish him well.

:ok:

BlooMoo
21st Jan 2009, 01:48
Hmm, I'm not sure I got my $170,000,000.00 worth yet.

Say that in 4 years with a genuine smile on your face and the 1st round's on me.

WhatsaLizad?
21st Jan 2009, 01:58
" I think it is going to be bigger. A disillusioned people suddenly seem filled with hope. Thats great for the US and in turn will be great for the rest of us.
"

A disillusioned people?

I beg to differ. Maybe an over developed sense of self esteem, narcissistic, at times over bearing and an annoying sense of self importance along with an over developed media machine...

but disillusioned? Who do you think we are, Brits? :}


Thanks for the nice post :ok:

al446
21st Jan 2009, 02:13
You have another seconder.

Bucket - I agree, I think there may be a bunch of right wing people out there who actually want Obama to fail and then there are cynics. To those who are cynical I can only say that the difference between you and I is that, if his presidency goes TU, at most I will be disappointed, you will say you had your doubts all along. If he tames the tiger you will say that that is his job, I shall simply smile.
To malwishers, I would rather have Obama in the WH than someone who would thoughtlessly use their power to enrich their friends.My view is that to wish the Obama presidency ill is to wish the collapse of the system we exist by, that would be revolution. I believe in evolution and think that BHA can shape that. I think the world has enough of the 'me, me, me' style of government.

I wish him well.

CityofFlight
21st Jan 2009, 02:50
Like many other Americans here, I didn't vote for Obama, but I stand behind him as my President. This is the first time in my history of voting, when a president has energized people of both parties, young and old, in the manner I've witnessed these last few days. As a country so divided just months ago, I find his ability to unite very encouraging. I'd much rather feel the hope in my heart, than the cynicism so many posters express here. What a way to live. :ugh:

Roger Sofarover
21st Jan 2009, 02:51
I am honestly at a loss to the negative comments by some, and aghast at the downright nasty comments by others. What has happened today has ramifications for all of us all over the world whether you like it or not. I did not have a vote, only an opinion. There are many on this forum that did have a vote, and over months of debate it was clear that their vote was not with Obama. However, the lesson we all need to take is that from our friends over the water. They may not have voted for him, but now he is in they have all rallied to support him. If world leaders do the same, if we all do the same, then change will happen.

If you want our troops back home safe and sound, if you want no more of your friends to die in the sand pit, then support this man, because none of the other world leaders have the morale courage to do it. As far as the financial crisis is concerned, Obama has picked up a crock of s**t, but if he does what he says he will do, then I believe he can fix it, and in doing so he will fix it for all of us.

Gordon Brown or David Cameron will not fix these problems, our hope lies with Obama, and for the next 4 years that is the only hope we have. I think the Americans can feel justifiably proud that they have elected someone who does seem to be erudite, intelligent and most importantly passionate. I think the majority of Americans will have a spring in their step today, and if Obama can unite them, then he will be remembered for many years to come. I honestly think that now he is in, he will try to do what he has said, and party politics will become unimportant for a while. I hope I am right.

Obama has, by the way just delivered a lengthy and inspiring speech to the troops at the Commander in Chiefs Ball.

On a lighter note, how come nobody has mentioned one lady today, who, whilst all around were wearing overcoats and thermals, she was wearing knee length boots and a short skirt! Joe Bidens wife! If she was wearing that today she must be hot stuff!:ok:

con-pilot
21st Jan 2009, 03:28
Okay, let's get one thing straight. I wanted McCain to be President, well okay, not really, I wanted Rudy to be President, but that doesn't matter now. I'm just damn happy that Hillary is not President.

President Obama is my President. I will support him until he does something that I believe is wrong, if in fact he does. Just as long as Hillary is not President I'm happy. If Obama does try and remove opposing political view from the airways, such as 'Talk Radio', I will on the forefront criticizing him.

He has a very tough and difficult road ahead in front of him, caused by both parties. There is equal blame to go around on this economical mess we are in. But at least Hillary is not President. I truly hope he does not have feet made of clay, time will tell.

Former President George W. Bush did his job, there were no more attacks on the United States since 9/11. Like it or not, that is a fact. But thanks to God, Hillary is not President, praise be to Alla (or whatever his name is). Some have and will continue until the end of time to make nasty, undeserved and plain rude comments about Bush. Well, don't be surprised when the favor is returned, of course you will scream "Not Fair!", but get over it, what you reap, you sow, or something like that, I'm not a farmer.

(Or is that, sow-reap? :uhoh:)

So, I support President Obama. Until he screws the pooch. To bad the Bush haters never gave him a chance from the start, I remember the nasty protesters when he won his first Presidency, before 9/11. Hillary was defeated and I'm very happy. Trust me on this, we Republicans will give President Obama a hell of a lot more support than most Democrats or some of you folks from across the pond, ever gave former President Bush when he was first elected.

Oh, did I mention that I am pleased that Hillary was not elected President? If not I'll mention it now.

Hooray!!!!!!! Hillary is not President!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D

West Coast
21st Jan 2009, 05:40
She's too busy flying her broom.

Well said Con, well said.

11Fan
21st Jan 2009, 06:13
Con,

Fu*kin-A-Bubba :ok:

parabellum
21st Jan 2009, 06:23
Haven't the Democrats just missed a seriously good PR opportunity? Would it not have enhanced their image to have said that they would go ahead now with the basic inauguration to keep all things legal but to spend $160,000.000.00 on parties at a time when, if we are to believe what we see and hear, the USA economy is in considerable trouble would be unbelievably irresponsible, so the parties will be deferred until the economy shows positive sign of a turn around and is back on the way up, that way they would have had two things to celebrate and could take all the credit?

Maybe they thought about it and decided to spend the money whilst they still had it?

LIMA OR ALPHA JUNK
21st Jan 2009, 06:24
Con

Trust me on this, we Republicans will give President Obama a hell of a lot more support than most Democrats or some of you folks from across the pond, ever gave former President Bush when he was first elected.

The difference being of course that many had a fairly accurate inkling about what Bush was about and his grave shortcomings. Sadly, we were not disappointed. I certainly never had the same feeling about previous Republican Presidents when they were elected to office :eek:

BlueWolf
21st Jan 2009, 06:38
Jesus, give it a rest, LAJ. :rolleyes:

I wouldn't have voted for Obama had that been an option for me, but the Republican Yanks are getting stuck in behind him, so why can't you? All this nasty, small-minded, shit-picking from the sidelines is supposed to achieve...what, precisely? Bush was elected President of the United States, by the American people, twice, which is two times more than you.

In any case, the Democrats have been in charge of both houses of the US Congress, and the purse strings, for all eight years of the Bush administration, so if'n you're not happy with America, why don't you point the finger at them? Uh?

Good luck to President Obama, and God Bless America.

LIMA OR ALPHA JUNK
21st Jan 2009, 06:50
You give it a rest Bluewolf !

I wouldn't have voted for Obama had that been an option for me, but the Republican Yanks are getting stuck in behind him, so why can't you?

I wanted Obama to win the minute he stood to lead the Democrats so I don't know where you're going with that one :rolleyes:

BlueWolf
21st Jan 2009, 06:57
The difference being of course that many had a fairly accurate inkling about what Bush was about and his grave shortcomings. Sadly, we were not disappointed. I certainly never had the same feeling about previous Republican Presidents when they were elected to office

The above, of course, is where I'm going with that one. :rolleyes:

My point is that you didn't post to voice support for Obama, you posted to stick it to Bush...hence my suggestion that you give it a rest. Bush is gone. Leave him be. :=

LIMA OR ALPHA JUNK
21st Jan 2009, 07:02
I certainly have posted to register my support for Obama, earlier on this thread and on previous threads if you care to search.

Con made the point about what you sow you shall reap about Obama baiting and that some wouldn't give Bush a chance and so I merely pointed out the reasons why. Seems you appear to have selective reading ability my friend :hmm:

galaxy flyer
31st Jan 2009, 19:48
Well, two weeks of "hope and change" and it has happened.

AP is reporting (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090131/ap_on_re_us/winter_storm) that there is all kinds of destitute people as a result of the ice storms from Oklahoma (C-P you OK?) to Ohio. FEMA has shown up yet, some people cannot be reached due to trees and powerlines down blocking roads. NOT a word from President Obama, apparently, aid is a local and state issue under a Democrat regime.

In the aftermath of Katrina, these kind of headlines provoked charges that Bush hated black residents of NOLA and wanted them to die. Does BHO, in revenge, hate white folks and want them to die??

GF

con-pilot
31st Jan 2009, 20:02
(C-P you OK?)

Yes, the major part of the ice storm passed just south of us, we only received about an half inch of ice, however, even that amount shut down the city. Nothing like the ice storm of 07. Kentucky is getting really hammered.

CityofFlight
31st Jan 2009, 20:12
GF...so true. But after seeing how the media treated McCain vs. Obama, would you REALLY expect things to be any different? :confused:


C-P...good to read you're out of the area hit so severely. Stay warm!

Light Westerly
31st Jan 2009, 20:40
On Friday, The President declared Missouri a disaster area.
Check it, it's online. I'm betting Kentucky and other hard hit areas will follow shortly.

Funny, but methinks if the President sent, or does indeed send, a huge federal response in manpower and money, I'll see the original poster critical of that.

If you're concerned, send a check to the Red Cross, join the National Guard, or volunteer to help.

E Pluribus Unum

Light Westerly
31st Jan 2009, 21:29
Link.
Storm-struck KY calls up entire Army Nat'l Guard - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090131/ap_on_re_us/winter_storm)

galaxy flyer
31st Jan 2009, 21:40
Light Westerly

I'll see the original poster critical of that.

Not if the emergency overwhelmed the state and local authorities and they requested federal aid. Which is how the system is legally designed to work. My point is that BHO is getting a pass by the Bush-hating media, which if they applied their own standards would be rabidly criticizing the response.

BTW, I did join the NG, ANG actually. For 30 years and dozens of state, federal and international emergencies and disasters. Fires in Yellowstone, yes; hurricanes in the Caribbean or Central America, yes; Blizzards, yes; hunger in Somalia, yes; tsunamis in Asia, yes. And some man-made ones, tool

GF

Light Westerly
31st Jan 2009, 21:49
Galaxy Flyer,
I can see where you're wanting this thread to go, but I ain't taking the bait.
I will say I'm not as versed at such skillful internet racial baiting as you are.
I do agree the media's got some problems.

Sincerely,
The "Tool"
Light Westerly
AD3, USN 1987-1990, BU3 USNR 1990-1993
SGT, 11B Team Leader, AKARNG, OIF 2006-2007
Working commercial pilot

E Pluribus Unum

Edit: GF, I agree with you that GWB was unfairly maligned over Katrina. I also tend to agree with some of your other posts I've read. I disagree strongly however that this storm, while terrible, can be compared to the destruction and loss of life brought about by Hurricane Katrina. Perhaps that is the more likely reason for lack of press "negativity" towards our new President.

con-pilot
31st Jan 2009, 22:53
And some man-made ones, tool


Knowing GF as I do, I don't think he meant to insult. I believe that if you care to to look at the close proximity of the 'l' and the 'period' (.) keys you will see that it is most probably that it is a typo.

At least that is what I believe.

brickhistory
31st Jan 2009, 22:55
I will say I'm not as versed at such skillful internet racial baiting as you are.



You are more internet savvy than you let on. You picked up instantly GF's interest in the lack of media scrutiny over President Obama's lack of public handwringing as compared to former President Bush's coverage.

Obviously, that is a racial observation...

It takes a subtle eye to make that leap.

And to bring up the tax situations of Treasury Secretary Gaithner and former Senator and Health and Human Services Secretary-nominee Daschle is likewise purely a racial remark. Not wondering why they get a pass in the media or the waivers for the DoD Deputy Secretary or the WH Deputy Chief of Staff being lobbyists despite the self-induced mandate that no lobbyists have a seat at the government table.

I'd say "change indeed," but don't want you to label me racist as well.

Light Westerly
31st Jan 2009, 23:06
You are right, I jumped the gun on the racial baiting statement.
When reading the original post initally, that's what stood out to me.
After re-re-re-reading it- I don't see it anymore.
I apologize for my bandying about a powerful phrase carelessly.

I'm also not really concerned if GF called me a tool, or if it was a punctuation error.
The label sometimes fits.

I don't like the media any more than you guys, I'm guessing.
I do want the best for my country though.
Again, please accept my apology for my carelessness.

E Pluribus Unum!

galaxy flyer
31st Jan 2009, 23:11
Quite correct, Connie; I meant an exclamation, NOT tool, but ,too!

I am not, in any way, "race-baiting" which seems to the all-purpose accusation of anyone questioning anything that might relate to our current president. Actually, while disagreeing with nearly everything he and his party stands for, I am really proud of his being President. It shows a high degree of political maturity on our part.

GF

Light Westerly
31st Jan 2009, 23:21
In the immortal words of another poster- "I blame the French."


Here's hoping our fellow Americans affected by the ice storm are safe, not hungry, warm, and know they are cared about on the state and federal level!

Goodnight,

"The Tool":) (a sometimes hot-headed one at that)

Rollingthunder
31st Jan 2009, 23:26
Goodnight?
It's only 15:25 in Alaska.

Light Westerly
31st Jan 2009, 23:34
I'm on the East Coast, looking after family.
It's dark now, and I've exhausted myself with my latest bout of internet idiocy.
Gotta rest up for more jumping to conclusions prematurely.
Goodnight Kentucky, Goodnight Louisiana, Goodnight John-Boy

Rollingthunder
31st Jan 2009, 23:39
We will see if American politics have changed during and after the honeymoon period. I doubt one man will be able to improve things dramatically. not Bashing America, same applies to other countries and my own. The machine is usually more powerful than a man.

galaxy flyer
1st Feb 2009, 00:05
And good night, Light Westerly and good luck, if you are activated again.

GF

Buster Hyman
1st Feb 2009, 00:06
But the exclamation mark is nowhere near the "L"......:p

brickhistory
1st Feb 2009, 00:22
The machine is usually more powerful than a man.


RT, this demonstrates an alarming lack of faith.

How dare you claim that President Obama (PBUH) is not the Messiah.

Perhaps a short chat with the "Hope Inquisition" might bring you back to the light...

---------------------------------------------------------------------

In other news, Michael Steele has won the leadership of the Republican National Party.

A true conservative - formerly the Lt. Governor in Maryland, a fairly liberal state - and a believer in conservative values and ideology. Perhaps he can lead the Republicans out of the wilderness.

Oh, he's black. But that doesn't matter to me. Just as Obama's skin color doesn't.

It's what he does that does.

Enjoy the trade protectionism as well, Europe.

As in the first Indiana Jones movie, don't look in the box...

Rollingthunder
1st Feb 2009, 00:27
Enjoy the trade protectionism as well, Europe.

We're worried as well

Canada, your largest trading partner and the first country the prez is visiting

unstable load
1st Feb 2009, 00:28
As a non American citizen/resident I would like to ask a question regerding the politics of the US if I may.

Will BHO be able to make any meaningful changes to a system that to an outsider sems to be mired in back-room deals and the much publicised pork belly funding?
What I mean is, does the "system" as it stands actually lend itself to honestly dealing with issues and fixing them?

Thanks in advance for your coments.

brickhistory
1st Feb 2009, 00:31
Rt, my apologies.

Canada?! Well, that's like next door neighbors or something.

So we'll probably ignore you entirely....


---------------------------------------------------------------------

unstable:


What I mean is, does the "system" as it stands actually lend itself to honestly dealing with issues and fixing them?



No. Which is why the hype over the "hope" of Obama is utterly ridiculous as was the universal scorn over GWB. It's much bigger than one man.

But it does give the masses something to chatter about...

Rollingthunder
1st Feb 2009, 00:36
So we'll probably ignore you entirely

We're used to it.

Hmmm, that pipeline from Alaska......

Northwest passage.....

Largest supplier of oil......

brickhistory
1st Feb 2009, 00:39
will never get approved under the current Administration or Democratic congress.

Can't upset the caribou, you see.


Me?! I'm all for redeploying from Iraq and going after the oil shale, but that's too politically incorrect.

Please remember to execute the stations of the cross when He comes to visit soon.

Rollingthunder
1st Feb 2009, 00:46
I liked Clinton.

When he visited here, I happened to be on the pavement when he drove by, he stuck his head out the window and waved to all and sundry. We are a safe society. I listened to him speak at a conference once , 45 minutes with no notes and totally entertaining and pertinent.

Liked thongs.

flapsforty
1st Feb 2009, 01:40
For the record:
I have never seen Galaxy Flyer post anything remotely racist.
As adults we are able to discuss matters of race here without needing to fear being labelled racist as soon as we are not painfully PC.
Race is a fact, racial politics is a fact, no need to tip-toe around the subject.

con-pilot
1st Feb 2009, 01:44
I liked Clinton.

Hell, I liked Bill Clinton too, still do. Thought he was a God awful President and I wouldn't vote for him for a county dogcatcher. But I still like him.

Desert Diner
1st Feb 2009, 03:00
My point is that BHO is getting a pass by the Bush-hating media

Any credibility in the arguament is lost with that little statement.

You are right in one respect though, after only a week though, that truly impartial, fair and balanced source, Fox News already is saying that Obama has failed.

con-pilot
1st Feb 2009, 03:16
Fox News already is saying that Obama has failed.

Would that be 'Fox News' as compared to, ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, MSNBC, BBC, etc. that have proclaimed President Obama the Messiah, the ONE who cannot fail as he has no faults. Perhaps 'Fox News' should be banned from the air for pointing out that Presient Obama is not perfect.

Yup, that will work, just force 'Fox News' off the air. Pass a law or something.

Desert Diner
1st Feb 2009, 04:16
Perhaps 'Fox News' should be banned from the air for pointing out that Presient Obama is not perfect.

Yup, that will work, just force 'Fox News' off the air. Pass a law or something.

Why, would you want to do that. Perhaps in your perfect little world you would like to ban those that disagree with you, but thats not me.

Please don't put words in my mouth, sarcasm or not.

You see I am one of those fortunate enough to live overseas, pay my US taxes yet really have no voice in how things get done. I am still waiting for talk about repealing the foreign earn income deduction once more.

As much as I don't like raising taxes for government spending, hocking the future of the country for current spending, I also don't like right wing blowhards who put words in my mouth just because I write something they don't agree with.

How about banning me. Pass a law or something that would do that.:bored:

Wiley
1st Feb 2009, 04:33
Anyone heard the "Obama!" parody sung to the tune of "Hosannah" from JC Superstar? I looked for it on the Web, but could only find the lyrics, and not a sound clip.

Very apt, I thought, considering the expectations many seem to have of the man. There's no way, however capable he may be, that he will be able to deliver on some of these expectations.

The conspiracy theorists will be saying this is all a wicked right wing plot to build him up so high so that it's inevitable he must fail, and the white Republician Establishment will then be able to say "See, we gave a black man a go and he failed." (Believe it or not, I've had someone say this to me already.)

A question: just how "black" is he? His mother was 100% pink, and I've been told that his father was as much if not more Arab than native African. Or was that another conspiracy theory?

Dushan
1st Feb 2009, 05:16
Yup, that will work, just force 'Fox News' off the air. Pass a law or something.

Did somebody say "Fairness Doctrine"?

Desert Diner
1st Feb 2009, 05:19
I fear we will have a repeat of the Carter years.

The economy is in a serious recession and the banks are not willing to take the risk in lending money. The only way that you can entice them to lend is by raising interest rates. Ergo, an economic recession with sky high (by US standards anyway) inflation rates. I can remember banks offering 16+% interest rates back in those days.

I am not sure how this stimulus package is going to work, as directionaly, sodding some lawns is not going to help the economy recover.

I hope it works though, and this doesn't become a repeat of the 1930's, for the sake of all our retirements.

Wiley
1st Feb 2009, 06:26
I fear we will have a repeat of the Carter years.I seem to recall some saying exactly this in the months leading up to the election. (And being howled down by the Faithful for daring to say so.)

Chimbu chuckles
1st Feb 2009, 06:40
An interesting point of view ref the Media/Obama/Bush.

Barack Obama&squo;s worshipped words of wisdom sound familiar | Herald Sun (http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,24971901-5000117,00.html)

I have seen no significant change in US Govt policy in the last two weeks and don't expect to see any either. So much for Obama's soaring rhetoric.

chuks
1st Feb 2009, 06:57
Was it not one of them who said that the more things change the more they remain the same? What a horrible thought and what a pity it seems to be true!

For one thing it totally contradicts the whole rationale for believing in Obama, that he should bring "Change."

For another thing, the title of the thread is probably wrong: "politics" has not changed, at least not in the last two weeks.

The President has changed, obviously! It is a nice change to see one on the boob tube who can speak in joined-up sentences instead of tongues, just for one thing. Now if He can only change water into wine then I will apologise to all who voted for Him and belatedly join the mob. On the other hand, if it's Carter redux, gloom and doom at home but an effort, at least, to refrain from recklessly beating the pee-whappy out of random lesser races abroad... expect a chorus of "I told you so!"

I have a brother-in-law who manages successfully to combine the practice of brutal and exploitive capitalism in reality with wonderfully woolly-headed liberalism in his politics. He bombarded me for eight long years with anti-Bush propaganda, Bush as monkey to Bush as murderer and then lately with crude and simplistic beliefs in Barack the Messiah. I used to wind him up by telling him that he was going to miss Bush when he was gone and now I have been winding him up by telling him his Messiah must disappoint him, probably sooner rather than later.

Another axiom is that you can make someone merely dislike you by contradicting him but being proved right makes him violently hate you. (This is one of those old-fashioned, non-PC ones that needs a footnote about the masculine including the feminine and the singular including the plural unless you want to end up with some Pythonesque mess by modernising it.) I think that sooner rather than later I won't be getting many more e-mails about U.S. politics!

The situation has changed but U.S. politics has not.

Desert Diner
1st Feb 2009, 07:22
Pardon my ignorance, but being away, I get very little of the US networks, other than the kindergarden antics that pass for news on Fox and MSNBC. On the other hand CNN seems to have actualy gotten "Fair & Balanced".

But other than on Fox, who exactly is calling Obama the Messiah? I would expect this as sarcasm from the right wing, but who else? And more to the point, why?

Have Americans become so simplistic that they actually belived this?:confused: This is a truly sincire question and by no means disrespectful of anyone.

hellsbrink
1st Feb 2009, 08:21
Going by a few things seen here and elsewhere, I guess people forgot at least one thing "The Messiah" did....

This is the sub-prime house that Barack Obama built - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/4413546/This-is-the-sub-prime-house-that-Barack-Obama-built.html)

ORAC
1st Feb 2009, 08:50
Will BHO be able to make any meaningful changes to a system that to an outsider sems to be mired in back-room deals and the much publicised pork belly funding? Err, he's from Chicago......

Dushan
1st Feb 2009, 09:55
But other than on Fox, who exactly is calling Obama the Messiah? I would expect this as sarcasm from the right wing, but who else? And more to the point, why?

Have Americans become so simplistic that they actually belived this?:confused: This is a truly sincire question and by no means disrespectful of anyone.

Because that is how he was hailed during the campaign. Hope and Change, Hope and Change, Hope and Change! That's all we could hear. And now there's no hope in hell that anything will change.

And it is not just Americans, who voted for The ONE (PBUH), but the whole world (and especially the left wing of PPRuNe) who believed that some magic change will happen on Jan 20.

However it is a standard leftist mantra: accuse the right-wing candidate of not doing what he said he will do or being harsh if he is delivering what he promised, but give your own guy a pass while wondering why did anyone thinks that he would do what he said. McCain was too old, Sarah Palin was Bush Redux, but Obama (PBUH) was "The ONE", Messiah that will deliver us from evil and have all our sins forgotten.

Well, how do you like them apples now?

As for CNN being "fair and balanced", there must be a different CNN, where you are, than the one we have here...

chuks
1st Feb 2009, 10:21
Who is calling Barack Obama the Messiah? Well, lots of folks! Perhaps doing that means we are all "right-wing" by definition but I don't really think so. I prefer to think we are just being realistic.

The liberal, main-stream, socialist Left in American politics has always had unrealistic expectations, God bless them! This or that leader was supposed to have messianic qualities, being somehow able to transform the dross of mundane politics into pure gold in much the same way as Jesus Christ, the Messiah, transformed water into wine (the Miracle of the Wedding Feast) and later bread and wine into his body and blood (the Last Supper).

For instance, Teddy Kennedy was one such Messiah until he made that ill-fated decision to drive off with Mary Jo Kopechne one Saturday night on Chappaquiddick Island. Even a mooncalf Democrat couldn't line up behind a drunken, adulterous coward as our next President-in-waiting after that one. (drunken: drove a car off a bridge in clear weather; adulterous: what was he up to with that young lady anyway, going bird-watching at midnight?; coward: he got out okay and she died, which really looked as if he didn't waste a lot of time trying to save his passenger).

Idealists are highly averse to learning from experience, otherwise they probably just wouldn't be idealistic, would they? Teddy disappointed them then when he really shouldn't have and now they have chosen a product of Chicago machine politics to somehow change American politics among the other miracles He is supposed to conjure up.

So: Messiah, and yes, this is sarcasm! You had to ask?

ORAC
1st Feb 2009, 10:32
But other than on Fox, who exactly is calling Obama the Messiah? I would expect this as sarcasm from the right wing, but who else?

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/uc/20090126/ljd090125.gif

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/uc/20090123/lprc090123.gif

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/umedia/20090123/cp.2a19083c46410b3dc884114b101cd9c3.gif

BarbiesBoyfriend
1st Feb 2009, 11:08
Hey ORAC. It's so funny watching you and other former Bush supporters trying to find clever ways to ridicule Obama.

The hard thing about democracy is that you have to put up with the vote of the majority even when you lose. So get over it.

As far as likening him to the Messiah goes, well.

For sure he's going to have a lot of knitting to unpick thanks to the previous lot who have brought us to this unhappy positon-and who enjoyed your unswerving neocon-like support throughout.

You should hang your head.

Whatever you think of GWB- I never heard anyone compare him to the Messiah.

F%cking idiot, maybe.


Messiah, ermm, no.

hellsbrink
1st Feb 2009, 11:23
BarbiesB, did you look at the link I posted?

And do remember that it was Clinton who brought in legislation regarding deregulation of the US banking system which did directly lead us into the present financial climate....

But it's all Bush's fault.......

Davaar
1st Feb 2009, 11:40
We're worried as well


No! No! Rolling. Nothing to worry about. We are Canadian, so they can't mean it to apply to us. Everyone loves us, because we are wonderful. Eh?

hellsbrink
1st Feb 2009, 11:47
He's already backing down on the protectionism, allegedly.

Barack Obama to dilute 'Buy American' plan after Europe threatens US with trade war - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/4414202/Barack-Obama-to-dilute-Buy-American-plan-after-Europe-threatens-US-with-trade-war.html)

BarbiesBoyfriend
1st Feb 2009, 12:04
Hellsbrink

No, I didn't see your link. Clinton was three terms ago FFS!

It's up to Obama to staighten ALL the crap out, no matter who caused it.

I was simply pointing out that being compared to the Messiah is one thing.






And being compared to a chimpanzee, quite another.

Getting it yet?

hellsbrink
1st Feb 2009, 12:13
Well, you should have been clearer on "the previous lot" when, considering your position on the last US Government, it obviously referred to them!

And since your type of people are the ones who referred to Bush as a chimp, well I guess we can see where that idea came from.

Yes, Obama has a lot to sort out. And if you actually read the link I posted you will see he was one of the prime movers behind the legislation that created the whole sub-prime mess.

So, excuse me if I do not jump on the "Thank God Obama's In" bandwagon as HE is one of the causes of the whole goddamned mess we are in now. And since he is one of those, arguably the biggest one, who caused it by trying to stop restrictions to the guarantees by Fannie Mae (he also kinda got the biggest amount of kickbacks, erm, "donations" from Fannie Mae) then I have no doubt he is reaping what he has sewn and is in no position to preach to anyone about how to get out of the mess or even manage to get out of the mess either.

The wheels will fall off the bus sooner than you think.....

chuks
1st Feb 2009, 12:24
Hang a few of the greedheads who got us into this mess, more like!

One thing that cracks me up is people who assume that just because I do not believe in this Messiah I must be pro-GWB. Then, having built this straw man they sit there in a warm little puddle of self-congratulatory, liberal wee thinking THEY are the sophisticated ones! Gawd!

Who but some caveman, right-wing, neo-fascist heretic could possibly doubt the existence of the Messiah? Why, that is so obvious there is no need to think twice, is there? He has brought us change, hosannah! Meanwhile many of his supporters are still left asking the question, "Any spare change?" So much for miracles, I guess!

ORAC
1st Feb 2009, 12:35
BarbiesBoyfriend,

Yiur are getting way way to defensive. Someone asked who, apart from Fox the Messiah. Well the way a lot of the media was acting it was the impression given and the mainstream cartoonists picked up on it.

And that's who drew the above cartoons - mainstream syndicated cartoonists. I'll even post one of the latest by Danzinger to show he's not left or right wing.

I suspect the reaction is because the accusation is just too uncomfortably close to the bone...... ;);)

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/uc/20090129/ljd090128.gif

BarbiesBoyfriend
1st Feb 2009, 12:38
Hellsbrink

The wheels are off already!

'My type of people'??? I'm no Democrat (in the US sense anyway). I actually quite liked Bush. It was the nut-jobs standing behind him working his mouth that spooked me!
You know. Cheney, Negroponte, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Pearle-those guys.

They give me the shivers!

Given the height of the high expectations re Obama, it is hard to see how he could fail to dissapoint.

I just think these cheap shots re 'The Messiah' show how bitter the losers are- and however bitter you are, most of the World (that's the bit outside the US btw) are pissing themselves with happiness now that Bush is history.

And like I said earlier- NO one, NO ONE! ever compared Bush with the Messiah. Altough as we've discussed there were other comparisons drawn.

BarbiesBoyfriend
1st Feb 2009, 12:45
ORAC

Defensive? This whole thread is defensive. It's a defensive thread!

Sarcastically comparing Obama to the Messiah, when the perevious incumbent was more likely to be compared with the spawn of Satan, in order to ridicule him is low grade,small minded, bitter and partisan.

Bush is gone, the World rejoices.

Now let's wait and see.

Your spelling is poor today- been at the drink?;)

ORAC
1st Feb 2009, 12:48
You do like throwing insults around don't you.

hellsbrink
1st Feb 2009, 12:53
BB

When you see how so many people around the world hav been fawning over him, of course there are going to be comments like "The Messiah" (He's not the Messiah, we'll soon find out he's a naughty boy though :E )

As far as the wheels being off, I was meaning that the wheels will fall off the adulation and the "Obama can do ANYTHING" buses very soon. The seeds of this whole mess we are in were sewn almost 14 years ago by people like Obama and Clinton, and all the adulation just goes to show how short peoples' memories are.

The Bush comparisons? Just look at where they came from. The "Messiah" ones are coming from more than just the Republicans, they are coming from all sides around the world because of he way certain people are acting like he is the Second Coming....

BarbiesBoyfriend
1st Feb 2009, 13:15
Hellsbrink

Re your comment about the wheels falling off the adulation bandwagon. Naturally I agree with you. I also agree with you re 'the second coming'.

Really dude, you can't expect to get away with blaming our current economic woes on Clinton and Obama. They've respectively been out for years or never been in. What about the TWO GWB terms. Don't you think they might just be a teensy weensy part of the problem?

I mean, if Obama gets this shitty mess cleaned up in two terms, are you going to clain that GWB should get some of the credit as he was in before BHO?:ugh:

Lets just wait and see.

ORAC Not an insult old fruit, just jealous!:ok:

bnt
1st Feb 2009, 13:16
So, I'm guessing the subtext behind the OP is: things have not changed drastically in two weeks - and so we can close the book on the Obama Administration.

Yeah? Seriously expecting miracles in two weeks? I mean, GWB was good, but it took him (and Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Rove, Greenspan, et al) a lot longer than two weeks to screw things up as badly as they are screwed up. The other point is that the whole government has not changed: not even the whole Executive Branch has changed. Fixing the Supreme Court involves waiting for one or more old Justices to die. There are a lot of offices in the OEOB, and the cleaners are only just moving in...

I never expect miracles from any politicians. In my book, actually wanting power should serve you to disqualify you from actually getting any. But, the system is all we have, so we may as well work with it. I don't expect nothing, since that would be as bad as expecting everything - so, as usual, reality lies somewhere in between the extremes.

hellsbrink
1st Feb 2009, 13:29
No, BB, I would not claim the Bush terms were behind any recovery Obama manages in two terms as I do not expect him to serve two terms.

But you cannot hide behind the fact that if Clinton had not brought in the deregulation and Obama had not been the biggest campaigner for that legislation we would not have been placed in the situation we are in now as there would not have been the sub prime mess which kicked the whole thing off. This was predicted back in 1999, when Obama was not Pres but was influential in his campaigning for Clinton's law (as well as in 2005 when he was a Senator when people wanted to reign in the level of "bad" lending that would never have been paid off which Fannie Mae was guaranteeing, because people could see it then too) so to say that somehow Bush was responsible for a law brought in solely by Clinton is something that is beyond me.

Sure, Bush made mistakes, but the whole sub-prime issue, etc, goes straight back to Clinton repealing the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933.

brickhistory
1st Feb 2009, 14:02
bnt:

So, I'm guessing the subtext behind the OP is: things have not changed drastically in two weeks


And therein lies the rub. He (PBUH) promised "change." With one nominee for Commerce withdrawing because of an ongoing investigation in his home state, two others, including the gent who runs Treasury, including the Internal Revenue Service, that made 'mistakes' and failed to pay substantial sums in taxes, and two senior nominees that fail His (PBUH) "no lobbyist in government" rule and requiring a waiver from Him (PBUH), there does seem to be a distinct lack of "change."

- current joke - Why should Democrats worry about raising taxes as they don't pay them?

Not to mention the damage caused by a massive ice storm in Oklahoma and Kentucky. Yet no cries of "indifference" or "where is the federal government?" 24/7 on the airwaves as it was in the wake of Katrina (never mind the minor fact that law prevented the USG stepping in until asked by the mayor, then the state governor, for that help. And those requests weren't made until three days later.)

The press reporting, by and large, seems to be muted regarding these mis-steps. Would the press have given Bush the same courtesy?

As the current WH Chief of Staff admits to daily conversations with commentators/news anchors from CNN and ABC (former Clinton high government officials), I think I can draw my own conclusion.

Add in one cable network's commentator stating he "got a shiver down my leg hearing him speak" or that network calling itself the "Network for Change," and I do wonder at the demise of objective journalism. Being told propaganda/lies by the government's leader is one thing, being inundated with that message from 'news' sources is worrisome.

KNOCK! KNOCK!

Who is it?

It's the "Hope Inquisition..."

BarbiesBoyfriend
1st Feb 2009, 14:06
Hellsbrink

I'm sure if we could go back and, with the benefit of 20:20 hindsight, change a few things-then we would!

There's not been any administration that was so perfect that we could look back 10 years without complaint.

You're American so you look to apportioning the blame between the two US parties. The rest of the world just blames America!

No matter. It's where we go from here that matters. He's your President, not mine. It's your Country, not mine.

Personally, I hope for better times.

Bush (and Blair) will account for themselves in the fullness of time, as will we all. If they aren't sweating, they should be!

Dushan
1st Feb 2009, 14:13
Add in one cable network's commentator stating he "got a shiver down my leg hearing him speak"

Brick,
is it fair calling Chris Matthews a "commentator". I call him motor-mouth:E

BarbiesBoyfriend
1st Feb 2009, 14:16
Brick

It's over amigo!

Have you thought about accepting that 'your lot' are OUT?

It's no use whinging on and on about how terribly unfair it all is. Get behind your NEW PRESIDENT and get over the fact that GWB, who was long past his sell by date, is off on a much needed vacation.

Sure Obamas not literally a miracle worker, but please, tell me you see better times ahead?

Please?

Dushan
1st Feb 2009, 14:17
You're American so you look to apportioning the blame between the two US parties. The rest of the world just blames America!



But you told us that as soon as Obama (PBUH) is elected the hate for America will stop. You did, you did. It was only to continue if the evil right-wingers continued the policies of GWB. You did, you did...

Matari
1st Feb 2009, 14:47
BarbiesDude:

Bush (and Blair) will account for themselves in the fullness of time, as will we all.I suspect given the fullness of time, history will look quite differently on Bush. Note the historic, relatively peaceful elections in Iraq this week.

Sure Obamas not literally a miracle worker, but please, tell me you see better times ahead?I certainly hope we have better times ahead, and as Obama is my President I wish him well. I'm just not convinced that a rehash of 1970's Carter-style wage/price controls and inflation combined with 1990's style Clintonian foreign policy are in any way, evidence of "change."

hellsbrink
1st Feb 2009, 14:48
You're American so you look to apportioning the blame between the two US parties. The rest of the world just blames America!

No matter. It's where we go from here that matters. He's your President, not mine. It's your Country, not mine.



I'm not, He's not, It's not!!

As far as apportioning blame goes, all I'm doing is pointing out that certain people cannot blame GWB for everything, and if you want to be fussy we can take the roots of the bill that Obama backed and Clinton put into law all the way back to the peanut farmer, as Clinton merely strengthened a law passed by Carter... Now, whose side was he on again?

Guess the Democrats here should really be careful about what they say, don't you?


Oh, Bliar has a lot more to be held account over, I can assure you.

brickhistory
1st Feb 2009, 14:49
BB, absolutely, President Obama is my President and I wish him well in safeguarding my country and trying to sort out the economic mess caused by easy fixes and neglect from both left and right previous Administrations and Congresses.

I do not want him to succeed in placing pretty much socialist machinery for the American society.

I'm quite past former President Bush. He certainly wasn't perfect, but he also wasn't/isn't the cause of all evil in the world, a stance that much of the world, abetted by the press, adopted.

I simply want that press to hold to the same standard with the current Chief Executive. I want those who so vociferously supported the candidate of "change" to face the fact that He (PBUH) is no better, hopefully no worse, than any other politician. I want the press to stop blatantly supporting one candidate and to stop pushing its liberal, self-loathing guilty agenda as 'news.'

Look how well that system and agenda has worked in 'Old Europe.' I truly do not want my country to adopt that outlook.

Any coverage of the Michael Steele being the new leader of the RNC? If so, why not?

Desert Diner
1st Feb 2009, 16:11
Going by a few things seen here and elsewhere, I guess people forgot at least one thing "The Messiah" did....

This is the sub-prime house that Barack Obama built - Telegraph

So according to the "Telegraph" the sub-prime mess was caused by giving loans to poor black people:rolleyes:

So I guess all the middle class white/oriental/black/hispanic/etc people that got loans for over priced homes they couldn't afford to pay had nothing to do with it then.:rolleyes:

And the banks that gave people "interest only" loans for the over over priced homes they could never every afford to pay back had nothing to do with it also.:rolleyes:

hellsbrink
1st Feb 2009, 16:19
Well, you have to look at the biggest issue being Fannie Mac/Mae. Now, since Fannie Mae guaranteed all these loans for the "poor" (not only black as you are asserting but covering ALL racial groups) then this was guaranteed to happen (NOTE how the article refers to the SUB-PRIME mess, which is the issue I have been talking about. Ok, let's keep on track with this because that has been the biggest issue). Now, since the whole debacle as far as sub-prime goes was caused by legislation brought in by Clinton, with Obama being one of the most vociferous supporters, I wonder what people were his constituents) then you cannot blame Bush for that mess.

As far as the others you mention, well guess what, it's the same in the UK and some of us had been warning of that bubble going "POP" too for some time. But, like in the US with the sub-primes, etc, nobody was listening.

Desert Diner
1st Feb 2009, 16:40
As far as the others you mention, well guess what, it's the same in the UK and some of us had been warning of that bubble going "POP" too for some time. But, like in the US with the sub-primes, etc, nobody was listening.

Now, since the whole debacle as far as sub-prime goes was caused by legislation brought in by Clinton, with Obama being one of the most vociferous supporters, I wonder what people were his constituents) then you cannot blame Bush for that mess.

Blame the genesis of this mess to Clinton if you want, but you cannot deny that it has festering away for the last 8 years on GWB's watch. It amazes me how the powers that be missed what was happening over those past 8 years. Were they so consumed with Iraq that no one was paying the least bit attention to the domestic economy and the wellfare of the country?

Just like bread and circuses in ancient Rome, they figured the $600 rebate checks to buy Chineese made stuff from Walmart would keep everyone happy.

It is sad, that the buck failed to stop in the GWB Oval Office. I just hope it does stop in the BHO Oval Office.

airfoilmod
1st Feb 2009, 16:51
Clinton et al not only led the charge for sub-prime, he also signed off on eliminating Glass -Stiegel (along with rep. Gramm).

The Problem is self-serving SOCIAL AND ECONOMIC ENGINEERING undertaken (sic) by useless gasbags whose agenda has everything to do with staying in power (getting votes). That means money, and "qualifying" poor folk (of every description) for mortgages and allowing Banks to plod down Wall Street was the beginning of the end.

Not ONE THING done in DC is done from moral motive. NOT ONE. Starting with Wilson in the teens, FDR in the 30's LBJ in the 60's and Nixon in the 70's the gallumphing to DoomsDay is a glitz-packaged debacle designed to cement and milk policy to aggregate power and money into the hands of the PEOPLE WHO PIPE. WE PAY, THEY PIPE. And call the TUNE.

ending rant now........

AF

hellsbrink
1st Feb 2009, 16:54
Well, this is the thing.

During GWB's reign an attempt to put the brakes on the irresponsible lending with Fannie Mae guarantees was made but it was shot down by, guess who, BARACK OBAMA who, with others like Hillary, were given large kickbacks, erm, donations to prevent the restrictions on irresponsible lending like that from being put in place. Now, since the attempt to put the brakes on was voted down by what seems to be the Democrats, how can you say that GWB was at fault for allowing it to happen?

Oh, and if the latest is anything to go by, Barack will make it worse for the US taxpayer as he is talking about taking on a multi-TRILLION dollar debt problem by taking over and guaranteeing all the banks' dodgy debts. Now, if this doesn't do as he hopes I wonder how he will be able to pay for his (already impossible to finance) schemes regarding taxes, education, welfare, healthcare, etc?

Desert Diner
1st Feb 2009, 17:08
During GWB's reign an attempt to put the brakes on the irresponsible lending with Fannie Mae guarantees was made but it was shot down by, guess who, BARACK OBAMA who, with others like Hillary, were given large kickbacks, erm, donations to prevent the restrictions on irresponsible lending like that from being put in place.

So after a group of senators foiled his attempt at puting the brakes on the irresponsible lending. He just rolled over and let the runnaway train just plow into the American economy and our future? That wasn't very Presidential of him. At least he had more backbone in standing up in Iraq.

Following that premise, if BHO proposes a plan, but Congress rejects it, then he will be blameless to let the economy rot for the next 4 or 8 years and we can blame it all on his sucessor?

I fear we may also be simplifying this somehow by blaming it all on Fannie and Fredie. Don't forget to blame the banks, who gave out these high interest sub prime loans and then turned around, bundled them into a package and sold them off to pension funds, etc. as safe investment packages.

airfoilmod
1st Feb 2009, 17:16
We are on rails heading for socio-economic disaster. I like Obama, he has what it takes to be a real President in the classic sense. He is articulate, bright, and connects with people. Critical mass cannot be reversed by Teller or Fermi, nor can Barack mobilize to prevent what in my opinion is a necessary though painful evolution.

Democracy is seductive. The Framers got most things right. A "Central" government to guard the borders and translate justice for the Masses.

Fruit rots. Empire comes and goes. We have a bountiful land that has cared for us for 200+ years. While most people have limited dreams, there are those who would advantage those dreams to tilt the Plains in their direction. Cataclysm can rid us of the Bidens, Bushes, Clintons, and all the others who were seduced by the lesser stirrings of all things human.

Power and Politics are and should remain LOCAL. Sending them far away is hideously expensive and destructive of the good things in life (But for the Few). From here to DC, to NY, to Brussels then the Hague?

Obama hasn't a Prayer.

AF

hellsbrink
1st Feb 2009, 17:19
Desert Diner

And that goes back to Clinton in 1999 when he scrapped the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933 and then allowed the total deregulation which led to the banks, pension funds, insurance companies and investment banks being allowed to mix up each others business, therefore starting the whole mess off!!

It was an accident waiting to happen, and once GWB got in he could hardly change things as there had been a flurry of takeovers under Clinton's law. To force companies to split things apart would have caused a LOT of trouble on the markets, so what could have been done?

chuks
1st Feb 2009, 17:24
It looks to me as if there is enough blame to go around with the Republicans letting the fat cats get more than their share of the cream while the Democrats probably went hog wild with the social engineering while forgetting that your average low-income type would still have to be able to afford paying off that mortgage he just signed up for. (I mean, "Really!", you just think about some poor guy facing a balloon payment when he's barely able to afford the low payments leading up to that; it doesn't take a crystal ball to see trouble coming with that.)

For a long time trouble was seen to be coming but as long as the fat cats were making money and the poor were coming across with the votes both parties were content to just let things go along.

Now we are in a whole heap of trouble,when I have to ask myself if part of the appeal of Obama wasn't, really, some quasi-messianic ability to conjure up a miracle that would sort out the mess, "Change," to sort of "Back up about ten years and take a different fork in the road," so that the family sedan wouldn't go over the cliff the way it most definitely has...

I don't want to be a real buzz-kill by telling anyone that their boy cannot work miracles, even if that is so. I freely concede that we are probably much better off with him as the public face of America compared to Bush, that faux-hick from Texas via Maine, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Yale, Skull and Bones and Harvard Business School.

Obama can speak in a way that suggests an intelligence at work where Bush, ooh, you just had to sweat it out hoping he didn't lose his place on the tele-prompter and read the same line twice without noticing.

Mixing up Austria and Australia, trying to walk off a stage through a locked door, sticking with reading "My Pet Goat" while New York was getting hammered...

Bush is one fellow who definitely would have been in line for having a hand-grenade tossed into his hooch if he had ever been sent to Viet Nam as an infantry 2nd Lieutenant so that he sure wasn't as dumb as he looked to have dodged the draft but I still really do not think he will be greatly missed.

With Obama it is just this fear that he's been waay oversold to the booboisie. Perhaps we are just trying to prevent disappointment with our carping about how, no, he is not really the Messiah despite so many wishing that he were. We will be very lucky to find that he is not, despite his dodgy Chicago background, just a very naughty boy!

Matari
1st Feb 2009, 17:24
Desert Diner:

Here are a couple of quotes for you to consider. The first is John MCain's comments on a bill to reform FannieMae (which Bush supported). Bush and others could see the coming crisis and were trying to avert it.“I join as a cosponsor of the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005, S. 190, to underscore my support for quick passage of GSE regulatory reform legislation. If Congress does not act, American taxpayers will continue to be exposed to the enormous risk that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pose to the housing market, the overall financial system, and the economy as a whole.”
John McCain
The next is Barney Frank in 2003, even before the legislation was proposed...typical of the democratic reaction to any attempt to reform their cash cow. In the end, they defeated the legislation above, and we are left with the mess.“These two entities — Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac — are not facing any kind of financial crisis, the more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.”
Barney Frank 2003 in response to Bush administration overhaul plan.
Barone sums it up pretty nicely here. You're right, the banks were just as complicite in this mess. In an effort to compete, they followed FannieMae right down the rathole. Democrats Were Wrong on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac - Michael Barone (usnews.com) (http://www.usnews.com/blogs/barone/2008/10/6/democrats-were-wrong-on-fannie-mae-and-freddie-mac.html)

hellsbrink
1st Feb 2009, 17:37
“These two entities — Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac — are not facing any kind of financial crisis, the more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.”
Barney Frank 2003 in response to Bush administration overhaul plan.


But how could it be classed as "affordable housing" when with the loans being guranteed led to more and more people taking out loans that they could not afford and, at the same time, helped drive the house prices in these areas UP so others had to take out even bigger loans they could not afford!!

Desert Diner
1st Feb 2009, 17:51
Matari,

You are correct on both counts.

However, my point still is, if the Administration (this goes beyond Bush as I doubt he understood the enormity of the situation and the potential consequences) was trying to be proactive, where is the paper trail of warnings from the Administration. Why did they roll over. Why were they so low key?

Even if the main street media kept hush about it for the economy to tank and let Bush get the blame (as the right wingers would say), why was Fox not all over it. Why did the Administration not publisize this. Why did they not take steps to avert it. Blaming it on the Democratic Congress is a cop out.

I would venture to say they were low key, because they were fixated on the Iraq war and any bad news about the economy would be an embarrasment.

They had 8 years in which they did nothing.

I agree with airfoilmod, this "package" is destined to fail. American Industry has been gutted, the economy has been gutted, GWB has already created a huge deficit that has provided no benefit to the economy and now they will borrow more money to keep people employed.

Unless they use the money for real infrastructure projects, it will be wasted just like those $600 checks.

Desert Diner
1st Feb 2009, 18:00
But how could it be classed as "affordable housing" when with the loans being guranteed led to more and more people taking out loans that they could not afford and, at the same time, helped drive the house prices in these areas UP so others had to take out even bigger loans they could not afford!!

Yet another idialistic idea (home ownership for all) corrupted by a certain group (bankers, real estate agents and builders in this case) to their own gain.

The original idea behind the legislation was for "affordable housing" that people could afford to pay a mortgage on.

It was another group that corrupted the idea to providing backing to loans on "unaffordable houses" that people could not afford to pay the mortage on.

hellsbrink
1st Feb 2009, 18:19
So why did Fannie Mac/Mae allow the situation to arise? Why did they guarantee the loans? After all, in 2005 it was clear that there was going to be problems, and these two institutions were the ones who lobbied the hardest AGAINST regulation of their activities knowing that regulation would stop them playing hard and fast, with the results we see now.

Oh, there are articles about the whole thing, if you look. Here's one, sums things up well, especially with how the Dems torpedoed the bill McCain was co-sponsor of.

AEI - Short Publications - Facing Facts on Fannie and Freddie (http://www.aei.org/publications/pubID.24907,filter.all/pub_detail.asp)

Until recently, the Democrats on the Banking Committee had never made clear why they opposed restrictions on the size of the portfolios. But now, in a recent statement of "Additional Views," they have finally declared their reasons for holding up the committee bill.

The Democratic senators reported, "The retained portfolios of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac help keep interest rates low; they have helped markets function effectively, even when other sectors experienced severe credit crunch problems; and they attract funds from all over the world to be invested in the U.S. mortgage markets." Perhaps not surprisingly, this is exactly what Fannie and Freddie have been saying in their intensive lobbying campaign to fight restrictions on their highly profitable mortgage portfolios.

Trouble is, none of it's true. In a paper posted this week on the Federal Reserve Board's Web site, and in a slide presentation used at a conference at the Chicago Federal Reserve Bank in May, three Fed economists demolished the first two of these reasons; the third was demolished a year ago.

BombayDuck
1st Feb 2009, 18:34
Ignoring the political discussions in this thread (they are interesting, but I have nothing to contribute to them per se) I can only reply to the first post (which was posted on Saturday) because I just found this link (http://www.kentucky.com/news/state/story/675914.html) which says:

President Barack Obama issued a federal emergency disaster declaration for Kentucky and Arkansas late Wednesday. By noon Thursday, 50 generators large enough to power hospitals or water treatment plants arrived at Fort Campbell for distribution.

Five communication vans for emergency operations were on their way to Western Kentucky, where there were widespread cell and land-line phone outages. Federal Emergency Management Agency staff were expected to arrive soon to help with damage assessments.

Any comments, learned ones?

Dushan
1st Feb 2009, 18:37
Can't we blame both parties?

Well that would be like not keeping score at a soccer game so that the little ones that are losing don't get disappointed. Let's not blame both parties, lets blame the ones who are responsible.

Dushan
1st Feb 2009, 18:42
Ignoring the political discussions in this thread (they are interesting, but I have nothing to contribute to them per se) I can only reply to the first post (which was posted on Saturday) because I just found this link (http://www.kentucky.com/news/state/story/675914.html) which says:



Any comments, learned ones?



Obama Approves Kentucky Disaster Declaration (http://pageonekentucky.com/2009/01/29/obama-approves-kentucky-disaster-declaration/)
President Barack Obama approved Governor Steve Beshear’s request for an emergency Presidential Disaster Declaration last night. The order will expedite assistance to people in need across the Commonwealth of Kentucky.


That did not happen in New Orleans for several days....

brickhistory
1st Feb 2009, 18:42
BD, none other than to say the system was working the way that it should.

As it was during Katrina.

The fact that the mayor of New Orleans failed in both planning and the execution of the that plan for a major disaster, then delayed requesting help until well into day two of the Katrina disaster didn't/doesn't get much play.

The fact that the governor of the state failed in both planning and in the execution of disaster planning, then delayed requesting help from the federal government until the third day likewise didn't/doesn't get much time.

The fact that the law required each local, then state government to attempt to deal with the situation before requesting federal assistance is ignored. Yep, by following the law and the well-worn concept of 'States' Rights' under our Constitution, GWB was painted as uncaring.

The fact that well-organized, well executed federal assistance rolled into New Orleans on the fourth day is still, to this day, put down as a failure of GWB not being connected with 'poor, black people.'

So, no, no big hoopla over President Obama following the law and established plans.

ORAC
1st Feb 2009, 18:52
This week's Economist (Required reading I believe in Washington D.C.): Waiting for the Messiah (http://www.economist.com/world/europe/displaystory.cfm?story_id=13038996) :cool:

West Coast
1st Feb 2009, 19:17
You're American so you look to apportioning the blame between the two US parties. The rest of the world just blames America!


The unintelligent, pious, misinformed, biased or ignorant ones who live in glass houses and believe greed only resides in the US.

Where do you sit?

You risk losing any relevency of opionion if you think the Yanks are the only ones to blame.

Captain Stable
1st Feb 2009, 19:24
The fact that the mayor of New Orleans failed in both planning and the execution of the that plan for a major disaster, then delayed requesting help until well into day two of the Katrina disaster didn't/doesn't get much play. The fact that the governor of the state failed in both planning and in the execution of disaster planning, then delayed requesting help from the federal government until the third day likewise didn't/doesn't get much time.Not true, Brick. Michael Brown testified to that effect, yes, but was later shown to have lied when Gov. Blanco released a copy of her initial letter requesting help. A state of emergency was declared in Louisiana on Aug 26th, two days after Florida simply because the path of Katrina took an unforecast swerve. To try to portray that as intransigence on the part of Gov. Blanco is therefore not true.

BarbiesBoyfriend
1st Feb 2009, 22:30
West Coast.

I never said I blamed America. Plenty of people do, though.

Our PM, Gordon Brown, never tires of assuring us that; "it's a world-wide problem that started in America".

i.e. nothing to do with him.

Maybe you think it's nothing to do with the US.

You tell me who you blame.

No, on second thoughts, please don't bother. How we get onto safer ground is more important than how we got in this sorry mess.

I'm not 100% convinced about Obama. He strikes me as a bit too like Blair.

Got to be shedloads better than Bush tho', eh?;)

chuks
2nd Feb 2009, 05:32
Obama comes across with all this hooey about how much his family and his African roots mean to him. Then it turns out his beloved auntie from Kenya is (or did that quickly become "was?") living in public housing in Boston on welfare as an illegal immigrant in what reads to me as near-total poverty. Still better than Africa, perhaps but...

When that gem hit the news I could only shake my head. Whatever happened to the African notion of the extended family there?

Also interesting is how Auntie just dropped off the news pages again. Can you imagine what a hullaballoo it would be if the reptiles dug up something similar on Bush? For their Beloved, though, it was just a news blip.

So, yes, Obama is better than Bush but no, you had better not follow this Messiah blindly. "Naughty boy," well, who knows but he is definitely a politician from Chicago.

ORAC
2nd Feb 2009, 10:26
Barack Obama to allow anti-terror rendition to continue (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/4425135/Barack-Obama-to-allow-anti-terror-rendition-to-continue.html)

The highly controversial anti-terror practice of rendition will continue under Barack Obama, it has emerged.

Despite ordering the closure of Guantanamo and an end to harsh interrogation techniques, the new president has failed to call an end to secret abductions and questioning. In his first few days in office, Mr Obama was lauded for rejecting policies of the George W Bush era, but it has emerged the CIA still has the authority to carry out renditions in which suspects are picked up and often sent to a third country for questioning.

The practice caused outrage at the EU, after it was revealed the CIA had used secret prisons in Romania and Poland and airports such as Prestwick in Scotland to conduct up to 1,200 rendition flights. The European Parliament called renditions "an illegal instrument used by the United States". According to a detailed reading of the executive orders signed by Mr Obama on Jan 22, renditions have not been outlawed, with the new administration deciding it needs to retain some devices in Mr Bush's anti-terror arsenal amid continued threats to US national security.

"Obviously you need to preserve some tools – you still have to go after the bad guys," an administration official told the Los Angeles Times. "The legal advisers working on this looked at rendition. It is controversial in some circles and kicked up a big storm in Europe. But if done within certain parameters, it is an acceptable practice." ..................

The Real Slim Shady
2nd Feb 2009, 13:27
"Mr President, Sir, if we are closing G Bay we can't retain rendition"

"Yes we can"

brickhistory
2nd Feb 2009, 14:42
Mr. President, your nominee for Health Czar to oversee the drive to institute universal health care and become Secretary for Health and Human Services is delinquent in his taxes to the tune of some $120,000. Should we still proceed with him?


Yes we can!


Change we can believe in. I believe, brother, I most definitely believe...

Dushan
2nd Feb 2009, 15:46
Obama comes across with all this hooey about how much his family and his African roots mean to him. Then it turns out his beloved auntie from Kenya is (or did that quickly become "was?") living in public housing in Boston on welfare as an illegal immigrant in what reads to me as near-total poverty. Still better than Africa, perhaps but...

When that gem hit the news I could only shake my head. Whatever happened to the African notion of the extended family there?

Also interesting is how Auntie just dropped off the news pages again. Can you imagine what a hullaballoo it would be if the reptiles dug up something similar on Bush? For their Beloved, though, it was just a news blip.

So, yes, Obama is better than Bush but no, you had better not follow this Messiah blindly. "Naughty boy," well, who knows but he is definitely a politician from Chicago.

And then there is this little gem:
Obama's half-brother arrested on charge of marijuana possession (http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/africa/01/31/george.obama.arrest/index.html)

NAIROBI, Kenya (CNN) -- George Obama, the half-brother of U.S. President Barack Obama, has been arrested by Kenyan police on a charge of possession of marijuana, police said Saturday.



And who can forget:

Billy Carter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Carter)
"In late 1978 and early 1979, Billy Carter visited Libya three times with a contingent from Georgia. He eventually registered as a foreign agent of the Libyan government and received a $220,000 loan. This led to a Senate hearing over alleged influence peddling which some in the press dubbed "Billygate." A Senate sub-committee was called To Investigate Activities of Individuals Representing Interests of Foreign Governments (Billy Carter-Libya Investigation).

After the failure of Billy Beer, Carter sold his house to settle back taxes with the IRS."

Did someone say Carter Redux?

brickhistory
2nd Feb 2009, 15:53
Oddly enough, I'll defend Obama, Carter, even, gasp!, Clinton on these.

You can't control what family members do. Unless they have a role in the Administration and/or campaign, then their actions are their own and not germane to the officeholder.

It is interesting that Obama left his relative in Baltimore to fend for herself, but that is an internal family matter.

airfoilmod
2nd Feb 2009, 16:50
Pres. Obama's Grandmother from Kenya was here for Inauguration. Funny no news of that. She's the lady who swears he was born in Kenya, not Hawaii. Back to Nairobi the day after. I blame the Press. I have to second Brick on the "caution/linkage" , though.

AF

Captain Stable
2nd Feb 2009, 16:54
Shoot, he's already bin in office a WHOLE WEEK! :eek:

So how come he ain't fixed all the problems of the world yet? :confused: :*

THIS GUY'S A :mad: FAILURE. I said it before, I'll say it again - he's no darn good, and now I've been proved right, it's high time to git him out. :ok:

galaxy flyer
2nd Feb 2009, 17:00
Captain Stable


I believe that was what Fox News was saying earlier!! :p

Now that 2 of his cabinet officials have admitted failure to pay taxes and one withdrew due to a legal investigation, is this the change we were promised??

And, BTW, if these nominees were Republican, do you think the press would have let them off as easily??

GF

Captain Stable
2nd Feb 2009, 17:11
gf - do you allege that he either knew about or colluded in their tax evasion?

airfoilmod
2nd Feb 2009, 17:17
"Shocked, do you hear? Gambling at....Rick's?? My winnings? thank you."

Capt. : they're BUDS..... it's ok. It's DC. Stop trying to protect the halo.

AF

con-pilot
2nd Feb 2009, 17:27
do you allege that he either knew about or colluded in their tax evasion?

The point is that it doesn't matter if President Obama knew about this tax issue or not. What matters is that President Obama's staff should have discovered this problem prior to them being named to the positions.

As for media bias I would recommend that you research what happen to Supreme Court Justice nominee Robert Bork and what they tried to do to Justice Clarence Thomas. The fact is that the mainstream media gives a pass to issues concerning Democrats that they would crucify a Republican over. This is not just a President Obama issue, it is liberal media verus conservative issues and Republicans. This has been going on long before President Obama was on the scene.

But then that is just the way I see it.

airfoilmod
2nd Feb 2009, 17:30
and your vision is excellent.

Captain Stable
2nd Feb 2009, 17:45
Remind me - what sort of a "pass" did GWB get over his past? His driving record? His drugs record? His company management ability? His war record?

Stop crying over this and dry your tears. There's no harder ride for Republicans than there is for Democrats.

airfoilmod
2nd Feb 2009, 17:54
What Planet are you on? The media admit they're biased.

A month didn't go buy for nine years without some ref. to GWB's "drinking" problem- in the uh.... past

I just recently saw a picture of BHO smoking a joint- on YouTube. (Not that there's anything wrong with that):=

Captain Stable
2nd Feb 2009, 18:27
I'm clearly not on the same planet as you, afm. If you take a look at Fox News' website, you will see their banner describing themselves as "fair and balanced" :uhoh: :ugh: :rolleyes:

Errr - since when????

I'm not particularly worried about Obama smoking a joint - if the video wasn't faked - which it might well be. I would be more worried about anyone stating that he had tried a joint "without inhaling" :cool:

Earl
2nd Feb 2009, 18:32
I did not vote for the guy, but he is all we have now for the next 4 years.
Still I don't think he is good for the country and this shows more everyday, I hope I am wrong.
He does have a tough job ahead of him, but this crap of telling people things will get worse before it gets better is in my view just a scapegoat in case he cannot turn things around.
He is already looking at the glass being half empty instead of half full.!
Not so good leadership abilities here, but what can we expect from such a person as this with no experience.
Some of the ones that he appointed has failure to pay tax issues, writing is on the wall.
WELFARE MAN OBAMA!
The press is not reporting any negative issues here with him concerning where he was born, his qualifications as being allowed to be the president under US laws.
The change we were promised is falling away slowly every day.
He need's to make some fast actions to bring the republicans and demos together.
This is not about politics, this is about the USA and our economy.
But anyone that lets his own brother live in a straw hut and his aunt ilegal in the USA on welfare, what do you expect!
Misery loves company!
Before long all will be on his welfare program.
Just today he said more banks will fail soon.
Time to stop predicting the future and do something, but he does not have the experience or the backing.
Guy is a born B/S artist!!!!!!
As an old saying goes.
" You can fools some of the people some of the time but cannot fool all of the people all of the time"

Light Westerly
2nd Feb 2009, 18:40
An interesting discussion for sure. How does one find truly objective media coverage of serious issues in this day and age? Television news, newspapers, internet news-sites, internet discussion boards, other outlets? Do you feel you have greater access to the "truth" now that we've got the internet? I'd like your suggestions on "better" sources of information.


Below, a few thoughts of mine, maybe wrong, just thoughts. Many of you won't agree with the way I see the World, and that's fine. I still wouldn't mind sitting down with you and buying the first round:).

We are living in troubled times. Nothing new in that I guess, that's what human history is made of. There are internal and external threats to my (the U.S.), and probably your nation's security. Re-the earlier post on rendition by the C.I.A.
Some people have no interest in objective "truth".
Some people/entities have a great interest in distorting the "truth".
What is objective truth?

Earl
2nd Feb 2009, 19:43
Yep after news like this I am sure we will get better health care and taken care of.
Not!!!!!!
But this Obama idiot says he is the right man for the job after his tax evasion.
For those that support Obama what are you smoking?
Any one have any children here that lost there jobs?
Would they get a bailout from Obama and the government, no they get it from us parents, trying to help them as all of us will do.
This bailout package is all smoke and mirrors from Obama and company.If they have problems with the home all the mortgage companies want to do is reset the payments, will cost them even more in the long run.
Pure Obama B/S at its finest hour.

ORAC
2nd Feb 2009, 21:45
http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/uc/20090202/lprc090202.gif

galaxy flyer
2nd Feb 2009, 22:28
gf - do you allege that he either knew about or colluded in their tax evasion?

Where did I allege that Obama knew about or colluded with any of the three cabinets picks? Daschle, Geithner and Richardson, certainly did NOT collude with Obama, but they don't make his standards for ethical conduct.

BUT, BHO, like all presidents DID promise a moral, ethical administration, hint, hint, not like GWB's. And, hell's bells, a sizable minority of his most senior nominations CANNOT pay their taxes. Geithner was even repeatedly told to do so by the IMF. Somehow, Daschle feels so entitled that when given a limo and driver, he doesn't see them as "income". These guys will, no doubt, ask for more tax money. How can we take them seriously?

GF

brickhistory
3rd Feb 2009, 00:32
How can we take them seriously?



Because they are the apostles to the Chosen One. He says "Hope and Change" and these are some who will help bring it to us.

"Hope and Change" is some serious stuff, it is...

hellsbrink
3rd Feb 2009, 07:06
GF, all politicians make these same promises. Britain's own Tony Bliar promised that his one would be "whiter than white" after years of "Tory Sleaze".

How long was it when Bernie's Bung came out, followed by Mandelson doing something that would have ordinary mortals slapped in jail for fraud, etc, etc, etc?

Desert Diner
3rd Feb 2009, 07:18
How does one find truly objective media coverage of serious issues in this day and age?

A media is is only objective to a person if it reinforces that persons point of view.

The likes of O'Reily & Hannity are objective to Conservatives while the likes of Obermann (sp?) & Mathews are objective to Liberals. Even Limbaugh is objective to a certain spectrum of humanity.

Light Westerly
3rd Feb 2009, 07:38
Desert Diner,
I agree with your take on the media and objectivity. There are so many sources of information now, available at least in the "free" world, that one can formulate their own very specific version of the "truth".

The truth waiting outside one's home, or hovel may be different though.

Captain Stable
3rd Feb 2009, 08:52
The "play-the-ball not-the-player" rule applies equally to neo-cons and huggy-fluffs Capt Stable, and you know it.

JB Mods

JB Mods
3rd Feb 2009, 11:45
Friendly reminder from your neighbourhood Mods:


Post in accordance with the JB ROE
When someone doesn't, ignore the post or use the http://static.pprune.org/images/buttons/report.gif on the left of each post.
Do not flame.


Failure to stick to the above will lead to failure of your username.

Thank you.

brickhistory
3rd Feb 2009, 14:14
The likes of O'Reily & Hannity are objective to Conservatives while the likes of Obermann (sp?) & Mathews are objective to Liberals. Even Limbaugh is objective to a certain spectrum of humanity.Each of those cited is a commentator and has an opinion show. I have no problem when they are functioning as such even if I disagree with them.

When they are used as reporters or anchors as NBC did with Olbermann and Matthews, the line for objectivity gets crossed.

During news coverage of the acceptance of a party's nomination, no matter how historic, a journalist (TV, radio, or print) should not make statements such as "I get a chill up my leg listening to him speak" (Matthews) or "I had tears in my eyes" (George Stephanopoulus ((sp?) at the Inaugeration. He, by the way is the host of a network Sunday interview show so he should be an honest broker. Never mind that he's also in daily phone conversations with the incumbent's Chief of Staff.)


edited for spelling

Matari
3rd Feb 2009, 15:04
brickhistory:

My favorite was when Chris Mathews said that his job was to see Obama's presidency succeed.

YouTube - Chris Mathews: My job is to make this presidency successful (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbOVWwSZIDM&feature=related)

Can you imagine him ever saying that about a Republican president?

brickhistory
3rd Feb 2009, 15:24
Wonder if Matthews will pay Cabinet nominees back taxes and fines?

Even apostles are human and make mistakes.

$120,000 in mistakes, but mistakes nonetheless...

Dushan
3rd Feb 2009, 16:04
Wonder if Matthews will pay Cabinet nominees back taxes and fines?

Even apostles are human and make mistakes.

$120,000 in mistakes, but mistakes nonetheless...

Nothing that a trillion dollar "stimulus" cannot fix...

airfoilmod
3rd Feb 2009, 16:08
One thing is important to say, I believe. For all the rancor and disagreement visible here, one fundamental truth needs to be exposed.

I have some experience in elected office; what I saw while attempting to do the "work of the people" was at once alarming and disturbing. There is a change that occurs deep inside people when tasked with democracy as it is practiced here. Most of it is not good

At the level of National politics I can promise all of you one thing. There is more in common between GWB and BHO than there is between either of them and "one of us". Far more.

It is in the best interest of the "process" that the voter feel a connection with the font of power and its operatives of all descriptions. That connection does not exist, except in the mind of the voter. It is sad to see educated and intelligent folk insult each other and bolster their imagined "connection" with one "faction" or another.

There is an expression on the street: "Let's you and him fight".

I believe that if given the opportunity, most voters of today would select all new leadership. The secret to the status quo is to manipulate the passions of the people against them. It is a political device more sly than Houdini; appealing to the baser instincts of the human condition, fear and upset are the currency of the ruling class. I have made the common error more than I care to admit. Neighbor on Neighbor? Over which scoundrel on which to bestow the keys to the Kingdom? Old before my time.......

Best Wishes and get to know your neighbor; not to be nice, to protect eachother. It will be very important. Don't fight, Befriend.

AF

Dushan
3rd Feb 2009, 16:12
You know what they say. Never be the 3rd nomenee with a problem. The first 2 always squeek by, the 3rd one gets nailed...

Obama budget official withdraws nomination (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090203/pl_nm/us_obama_killefer_2)

WASHINGTON (Reuters) – President Barack Obama's choice to oversee budget and spending reform, Nancy Killefer, has withdrawn her nomination, the White House said on Tuesday.

"She has withdrawn and we accepted her withdrawal," a White House spokesman told reporters.

brickhistory
3rd Feb 2009, 16:13
airfoilmod, well written and no doubt heart-felt.

President Obama was elected with the idea of "hope and change." To tie it into your missive, "new leadership."

I believe that if given the opportunity, most voters of today would select all new leadership.

Yet what are we getting from that 'new leadership?' Much more of the same regarding his cabinet and advisors.

Again, I don't fault him for that. He won the election, he should get the personnel he desires.

It is the hype of a "New Messiah" as preached by his (and those here) acolytes and the media.

Not so different, eh?

Dushan
3rd Feb 2009, 16:19
One thing is important to say, I believe. For all the rancor and disagreement visible here, one fundamental truth needs to be exposed.

I have some experience in elected office; what I saw while attempting to do the "work of the people" was at once alarming and disturbing. There is a change that occurs deep inside people when tasked with democracy as it is practised here. Most of it is not good



I have experienced the same sentiments in a similar position. All I can say that things never appear, from the outside, to be what they are once you are on the inside. However the sly politicians choose not to recognize that and promise the world, knowing well in advance that they will not be able to deliver. This is where the fundamental difference is, in my opinion, between the two sides.

brickhistory
3rd Feb 2009, 16:37
Perhaps a relook at the Administration's 'vetting' process?

Yes we can!


Wonder why we get the characters we get under any Administration, Republican or Democrat?

No we don't!

airfoilmod
3rd Feb 2009, 16:42
I could make a compelling case that Hoover would have been a
"better" pres. than the rolling Dutchman. It is the unwarranted Faith voters place in the "standard bearer" that never ceases to amaze and disappoint. This "Faith" ALWAYS comes at the expense of trust in one's self and one's neighbor. Armed with these conclusions, I consider any leader who's goal it is to strengthen Washington at the expense of local and State interests to be a traitor to the Constitution. This would include Lincoln, FDR, especially Wilson, etc.

The only thing stupider than "believing" in a "National" leader is to be disappointed when they fail.
.............please note quotation marks

AF

Dushan
3rd Feb 2009, 16:47
The only thing stupider than "believing" in a "National" leader is to be disappointed when they fail.
AF

airfoilmod,
this one needs to be chiseled into granite, somewhere in DC..

airfoilmod
3rd Feb 2009, 16:53
With a chisel. Not well received. The monuments are stirring. The population homo raponicum have desecrated all that's dear to an American.

AF

Dushan
3rd Feb 2009, 17:01
OK then how about with a spray can? More appropriate?

brickhistory
3rd Feb 2009, 17:01
C'mon, surely 200,000 thousand chanting Germans can't be wrong...








Again.

Dushan
3rd Feb 2009, 17:03
Yes, they can!

galaxy flyer
3rd Feb 2009, 17:03
I've said it before and I'll repeat it--we should all forward to the day the President is introduced as "the head of a minor, but important bureaucracy" rather than as the "head of the Free World". Article I gives all the lawmaking authority to the Congress, the President merely carries their wishes (and our wishes within the powers we, the People granted them by Article I, Section 8) by faithfully executing the law. You can read it in the Constitution. GWB, as has every President since Adams, regularly exceeded their authority. And we let the scoundrels do it.

GF

Edit: I'll add, if America is a superpower, it wasn't the President or Congress that did it-it was the 305 million people who inhabit this land.

Light Westerly
3rd Feb 2009, 17:03
You're painting with a very wide brush airfoilmod.

I don't agree that it's stupid to "believe" in a national leader.
Keep your chisel off the monuments.

brickhistory
3rd Feb 2009, 17:09
GF:

"head of the Free World".

I would submit that after the explosive debt growth under Bush (and his predecessors), combined with the looming nearly trillion (I can't even comprehend such a figure) that "Free World" is soon to be called something more like "The Indentured World."

airfoilmod
3rd Feb 2009, 17:24
I'll try a finer brush if you open up your viewfinder a little. What happens in our politics all too often is the push of a fallacy. For reasons not discussed, far too many of us refuse to look at "our part" and project our responsibility on to an illusion. You, in your life, have owned up to yours, and found a surplus which you dedicated to the rest of us. God Bless You.
More should heed your example. In my opinion (sic) our country has severed our historical ties to honor, work, and the document which framed our collective soul. Too Late? Pretty Much, I fear.

Barack stirred in me the patriotism I felt when Reagan was on the Stage. Any leader who reinvigorates the naturally occurring faith in each other that evidenced recently deserves a commitment. It's required. The great ones don't instill faith in them, but faith in ourselves. We'll see.

galaxy flyer
3rd Feb 2009, 17:34
Well, Ms. Kellifer has withdrawn her nomination for an OMB position due to "tax difficulties". Do any Dems pay taxes, or at least, the amount they are legally required to.

Nice one, Brick. Indentured Servitude replaces Citizenship!

GF

Light Westerly
3rd Feb 2009, 17:36
Thanks for the compliments. All I did was sign on the dotted line and sit in a Humvee in the desert this last time.
I agree with you, as far as I can tell, on most things.
I especially agree on the idea of getting along with one's neighbors as well as one can- be they foreign or domestic.
Very many bad things have happened in the last few years, as good old GWB might have said. I miss him already:bored:. Just hoping that we are able to see what we can do to fix, or at least ameliorate our deteriorating (done for?) economy, and figure out what the heck to do with the War we've got on our hands.
Serious stuff, I reckon. I hate the idea of another day of trivial back and forth while some of my buddies are still over there. Not saying they don't necessarily want to be there, only saying that we need to get our shite together, ya know?
In that vein, I'm disheartened by the old usual routine of left-right, blue-red, conservative-liberal,etc...
Bigger fish to fry right now. We need to believe in something.

Desert Diner
3rd Feb 2009, 17:38
Barack stirred in me the patriotism I felt when Reagan was on the Stage.

Or more like, he relieved the queziness you had when you saw Bush on stage the same as Reagan relieved the queziness you had when you saw Carter on stage.

brickhistory
3rd Feb 2009, 17:56
LW:

We need to believe in something.

Domestically, I believe in the federal government getting out of the way.

I believe in a smaller federal government.

I believe every American has the right to do the best he or she can, on their own.

I believe that President Obama is a professional politician. Although an inexperienced one.

I don't believe the hype of the "Second Coming" as spouted by most of the press, many of his supporters both domestically and here on pprune, and the world that hated GWB because he essentially stated, "Thanks for your interest in our issues. We don't really care about your opinion. Want to work with us? Great. Don't? Ok, don't let the door hit you on the way out."

I believe in that as well.

airfoilmod
3rd Feb 2009, 18:24
Politics is about SALES. Concepts, products that baffle or don't resonate need a sales department. People who count their change at the market willingly pay 60 per cent of their income to a place they can't understand.
If taxes were collected each month by check, people might notice the sales job they're getting.

In October, roughly one TRILLION dollars was stolen by people YOU VOTED FOR. No accounting, no questions, no "raising the debt limit" (as law requires), given to people you don't know who look at you from their perch WITH DISDAIN. Now, it's another TRILLION to be funneled into "Government bureaus". Instead of marching to DC with pitchforks 3 million of us spent several days CELEBRATING GOVERNMENT.

Am I allowed my consternation? People will return to sanity not by choice but by circumstances. When it comes home how Barney, Tom, Larry, Harry and Nancy have screwed us, and there's no work, no food, and Monte Carlo has twenty seven new 100 million dollar yachts at anchor, maybe we'll let someone talk sense.

AF

brickhistory
3rd Feb 2009, 18:26
Monte Carlo has twenty seven new 100 million dollar yachts at anchor, maybe we'll let someone talk sense.

airship, looks like you're gonna have a good year!

con-pilot
3rd Feb 2009, 18:27
Tom Daschle has just withdrew his name from nomination. I guess the heat in the kitchen got too hot.

That makes two just today.

brickhistory
3rd Feb 2009, 18:30
I withdraw all my comments.

With the news of nominees withdrawing, President Obama can, indeed, affect change.

I apologize for my lack of faith...

airfoilmod
3rd Feb 2009, 18:40
If Daschle resigns his Senate seat I'll be encouraged. Otherwise it's just, "Damn, thought I could ride it out."

I am sick and tired of "ETHICS ON DEMAND"

AF

Light Westerly
3rd Feb 2009, 18:52
Maybe Bill and Chelsea could hold down those posts?

airfoilmod
3rd Feb 2009, 19:00
First I was embarrassed. Then I thought, it's kinda nice not knowing so much about Washington. Thanks for the Hds/up.

AF

Sunray Minor
3rd Feb 2009, 19:12
Brickhistory

I don't think there is any "new messiah"-ism preached here. Maybe in the media, but then again, it sells, and plenty of people are so fed up they are happy to seize on any new hope. I think though you underestimate just how much real pain Bush, and those in his cabinet, inflicted on a lot of people out there. There would have been plenty of euphoria from all sides of the political divide just to see McCain win that election - that would have been change enough.

Airfoilmod is quite right to say there is a greater divide between those in power and the common man than there are between those in power. But that is the nature of management, principles of cooperation and priviledge of position. You can't go about doing what you like, pushing just your own opinion or acting without due regard when you move in to power...that being one of the GoPs failings for as long as Bush has been in power. The differences between Obama and Bush are vast however. It's the systems they have to work within that are the same. Obmas is certainly a long way from making the big mistakes that Bush did and inspires a lot more confidence in his decision making capacities than Bush ever did. His superiority to McCain or Hillary? Might be marginal. But he appears to be leaps and bounds aver Bush and Palin.

So if we are going to judge Obama by the what has gone wrong in his first few weeks in office, also judge him by what has gone right in those weeks. He's looking pretty pomising from where I am standing. If he wants to fvck things up by the time his 4 years are up then you get to chose again.

galaxy flyer
3rd Feb 2009, 19:29
Airfoilmod

If Daschle resigns his Senate seat I'll be encouraged.

I'm pretty sure the voters of South Dakota voted him OUT in 2004. They woke up to what they sending to DC.

brickhistory
3rd Feb 2009, 19:34
So if we are going to judge Obama by the what has gone wrong in his first few weeks in office, also judge him by what has gone right in those weeks.

And those things actually "done" are? Not talked about, not promised, but actually executed.

Did Bush get such credit for the many things he and his administration did right? And there were many. I don't intend to go down that road, but your argument is a 'goose and gander' one.

By the way, I am not a fan of much of what former President Bush did - the bailout being the most recent. The expansion of the federal government is shocking. And it will only get worse. But he did accomplish some noteworthy things during his eight years.

He's looking pretty pomising from where I am standing.

As I said, 200,000 screaming Germans can't be wrong.

If he wants to fvck things up by the time his 4 years are up then you get to chose again.

Yep, it ain't pretty, but it's our system.

Do you apply that same standard to Hugo?
(Sorry, slightly left of thread and correcting...)

galaxy flyer
3rd Feb 2009, 19:38
C-P

Right you are:

NYTimes Daschle Editorial. (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/03/opinion/03tue1.html)

The editorial title, "The Travails of Daschle" is hilarious, i was LOL in my car this morning. A guy gets FREE car service, decides it is NOT income, doesn't pay taxes and it is TRAVAILS. Anyone doubting NY Times media bias is so obviously in the tank, needs a wake-up call. The Dems are having a Leona Helmsley moment, "taxes are something the little people pay".

GF

Matari
3rd Feb 2009, 19:44
Sunray Minor:

I think though you underestimate just how much real pain Bush, and those in his cabinet, inflicted on a lot of people out thereI've often wondered what drives a comment like that. Setting aside Iraq, which has been endlessly debated here, what has he done to provoke such ire? Take the rest of the left's favorite list of Bush evils: Kyoto? Fair enough, but uppity Europeans aren't even attempting to comply. Guantanamo / renditions? Obama hasn't addressed that thorny question, merely pushed it out. And the Europeans certainly have no answer for what to do with enemy combatants who are essentially stateless murderers. Katrina? Again, those who soley blame Bush do not appreciate the local/state/federal disaster relief protocols. Financial crisis? When they write the history, the names Frank, Dodd and Clinton will figure more prominently.

Rather, there is plenty the left should be thanking Bush for. How about malaria and HIV prevention in Africa? Women's education and empowerment in Afganistan? Shutting down of Kaddafi's nuke ambitions? Defusing of Indian/Pakistani nuclear tensions? Medicare drug programs? Tsunami relief?

You can't go about doing what you like, pushing just your own opinion or acting without due regard when you move in to power...that being one of the GoPs failings for as long as Bush has been in power.Here again, you fail to appreciate Bush's reach across the aisle to join with his opponents. He worked tirelessly with Ted Kennedy in passing No Child Left Behind, and in the Medicare drug program. He created massive new federal employment with the TSA, something the left should be joyous about.

For myself, I've got a few Bush complaints of my own...expanding federal government reach, deficit spending, inattention to Mexico, etc. But none of those are on the left's top list.

brickhistory
3rd Feb 2009, 19:55
sunray is the first of the 'usual suspects' to show up. I commend him for that.

I'm wondering where airship, track coastal, LAJ, BHR, and get the flick, et al, are?

No words of praise for His work and His selections?

I am disappointed.

Not surprised, but disappointed.

Anne Wortham is Associate Professor of Sociology at Illinois State University and continuing Visiting Scholar at Stanford University 's Hoover Institution. She is a member of the American Sociological Association and the American Philosophical Association. She has been a John M. Olin Foundation Faculty Fellow, and honored as a Distinguished Alumni of the Year by the National Association for Equal Opportunity in Higher Education.

In fall 1988 she was one of a select group of intellectuals who were featured in Bill Moyer's television series, "A World of Ideas." The transcript of her conversation with Moyers has been published in his book, A World of Ideas.

Dr. Wortham is author of The Other Side of Racism: A Philosophical Study of Black Race Consciousness which analyzes how race consciousness is transformed into political strategies and policy issues. She has published numerous articles on the implications of individual rights for civil rights policy, and is currently writing a book on theories of social and cultural marginality.

Recently, she has published articles on the significance of multiculturalism and Afro-centricism in education, the politics of victimization and the social and political impact of political correctness. Shortly after an interview in 2004, she was awarded tenure.


NO, HE CAN'T by Anne Wortham

November 6, 2008

Fellow Americans,

Please know: I am black; I grew up in the segregated South. I did not vote for Barack Obama; I wrote in Ron Paul's name as my choice for president. Most importantly, I am not race conscious. I do not require a black president to know that I am a person of worth, and that life is worth living. I do not require a black president to love the ideal of America.

I cannot join you in your celebration. I feel no elation. There is no smile on my face. I am not jumping with joy. There are no tears of triumph in my eyes. For such emotions and behavior to come from me, I would have to deny all that I know about the requirements of human flourishing and survival - all that I know about the history of the United States of America, all that I know about American race relations, and all that I know about Barack Obama as a politician. I would have to deny the nature of the "change" that Obama asserts has come to America .

Most importantly, I would have to abnegate my certain understanding that you have chosen to sprint down the road to serfdom that we have been on for over a century. I would have to pretend that individual liberty has no value for the success of a human life. I would have to evade your rejection of the slender reed of capitalism on which your success and mine depend.

I would have to think it somehow rational that 94 percent of the 12 million blacks in this country voted for a man because he looks like them (that blacks are permitted to play the race card), and that they were joined by self-declared "progressive" whites who voted for him because he doesn't look like them.

I would have to wipe my mind clean of all that I know about the kind of people who have advised and taught Barack Obama and will fill posts in his administration - political intellectuals like my former colleagues at the Harvard University's Kennedy School of Government.

I would have to believe that "fairness" is the equivalent of justice. I would have to believe that man who asks me to "go forward in a new spirit of service, in a new service of sacrifice" is speaking in my interest. I would have to accept the premise of a man that economic prosperity comes from the "bottom up," and who arrogantly believes that he can will it into existence by the use of government force.

I would have to admire a man who thinks the standard of living of the masses can be improved by destroying the most productive generators of wealth.

Finally, Americans, I would have to erase from my consciousness the scene of 125,000 screaming, crying, cheering people in Grant Park, Chicago irrationally chanting "Yes We Can!" Finally, I would have to wipe all memory of all the times I have heard politicians, pundits, journalists, editorialists, bloggers and intellectuals declare that capitalism is dead - and no one, including especially Alan Greenspan, objected to their assumption that the particular version of the anti-capitalistic mentality that they want to replace with their own version of anti-capitalism is anything remotely equivalent to capitalism.

So you have made history, Americans. You and your children have elected a black man to the office of the president of the United States , the wounded giant of the world. The battle between John Wayne and Jane Fonda is over - and that Fonda won. Eugene McCarthy and George McGovern must be very happy men. Jimmie Carter, too. And the Kennedys have at last gotten their Kennedy look-a-like. The self-righteous welfare statists in the suburbs can feel warm moments of satisfaction for having elected a black person. So, toast yourselves: 60s countercultural radicals, 80s yuppies and 90s bourgeois bohemians.

Toast yourselves, Black America . Shout your glee Harvard, Princeton , Yale, Duke, Stanford, and Berkeley. You have elected not an individual who is qualified to be president, but a black man who, like the pragmatist Franklin Roosevelt, promises to - Do Something! You now have someone who has picked up the baton of Lyndon Johnson's Great Society. But you have also foolishly traded your freedom and mine - what little there is left - for the chance to feel good. There is nothing in me that can share your happy obliviousness.

chuks
3rd Feb 2009, 21:45
for that poor little hamster, when the wheel really gets to whirling, if you please. Otherwise I am having the animal rights people on you lot!

I just wonder how long it will take for the euphoria to wear off. "The New York Review of Books" cranked out a special edition, or so it seemed, just one long orgasmic cry of exultation over His victory which is also, of course, a victory for America, cleansing us of our deep, institutional stain of racism and a whole lot of other stuff too that I am just not equipped to understand. Nah, it reads like hooey to me.

galaxy flyer
3rd Feb 2009, 21:54
Chuks

That might be the first citation from the "New York Review of Books" ever on Pprune. Do you get in Germany or Africa??

GF

ORAC
3rd Feb 2009, 23:13
http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/uc/20090203/lprc090203.gif

galaxy flyer
4th Feb 2009, 00:05
More humor from the MSM media:

NY Times website has not one, but TWO, Ann Coulter ads!! Imagine that.

Two, BHO blames himself for Tom Daschle's nomination problems? Huh? Is BHO his tax advisor?

Hilarious!!

GF

chuks
4th Feb 2009, 05:14
I gets in Germany, I takes to Africa, I stuffs mentions in here, "The New York Review of Books," wonderful in its way.

I assume a certain London leftie reads and believes every utterance there to be found and then stuffs it into his sandals in winter to keep the chill breeze of reality from putting the frostbite on his liberal toes but for me it's mostly useless diversion, reading very erudite stuff from, often, highly-educated people with as close to no common sense as makes no difference.

There you can get some clown taking his holidays by trekking in Crete while musing on the collapse of the Minoan civilisation where people like me would just be wondering, "Hey, is there a McDonalds anywhere nearby?" Humbling, it's deeply humbling, as if I needed any more humiliation in my mis-spent life.

Why I write that, well, outside the muezzin is playing my song through his speaker size extra-large as another day in the desert oil patch gets underway. Yet what do I know about the nature of reality? Nose to the grindstone I just plod along, blind. Here on Jetblast is the place for flashes of brilliant revelation about the Messiah and his evil twin GWB, Reality Lite. I can read here about the true meaning of life, something very different, seemingly, from what I see with the naked eye clouded by cynicism.

Strip off the obscurantist leaves of quotidian reality to leave just the naked stalk of some simplified Jet Blast vision of America, GWB, capitalism, whatever really... and then flog me with that, "Ooh, ouch, yes, yes, harder!" for I have been a very naughty boy.

Just having been born an American is enough to leave me with some sort of original sin in the eyes of most of the rest of the world, I guess, when it might take more than electing a Chicago pol with an exotic family background to redeem us.

On the other hand, perhaps Barack, Harvard-educated tight-ass in a suit, mutates into Barry, dreadlocked herbal warrior in a Che t-shirt and ragged jeans, to make history as the very first POTUS to make a major policy speech while totally splifflicated. "My fellow Americans, this unprecedented global crisis which confronts us all... Like, 'Chill,' dudes and dudesses, know what I mean..." (At this point the great man paused, blinked at his audience, simply turned and left the stage while the Marine Band played a medley of Bob Marley's greatest hits.)

Sunray Minor
4th Feb 2009, 08:52
Brick,


Quote:
If he wants to fvck things up by the time his 4 years are up then you get to chose again.
Yep, it ain't pretty, but it's our system.
Do you apply that same standard to Hugo?
Yep, that was exactly the standard I applied to Chavez. I might be missing the argument there, but I see none.

The usual suspects are missing at the moment, Brick, because there are no dire faults in need of defending. Only the shrill howls of the the bitter still licking their post-election wounds.

Matari,

You play down not only the seriousness of Guantanamo but what anyone, Jesus included, could do about that debacle in the space of several weeks. Obama appears to have moved with breakneck speed on the issue. Why should Europeans come to a solution for it? You created the situation, you fix it. Uppity Europeans not even willing to comply on Kyoto? Quite a sweeping generalisation that one. Few have done less to even consider complying than Bush.

"How about malaria and HIV prevention in Africa? Women's education and empowerment in Afganistan? Shutting down of Kaddafi's nuke ambitions? Defusing of Indian/Pakistani nuclear tensions? Medicare drug programs? Tsunami relief?"
...either you think Bush walked on water or you credit the man with far too much. The "left" should be thanking him? I don't think this is a left-right debate any more. It is one of competance.

chuks
4th Feb 2009, 09:15
How can one lick one's wounds while also emitting shrill howls? I would have thought we could do one or the other but not both at the same time.

Perhaps you see "neo-cons" as possessed of super-human powers, SM.

Non-lefties really are just normal folks who still have to put their pantaloons on one leg at a time; the only difference is in the way our brains run Logic 1.0and not this new software that gives such odd results, so that Hugo Chavez or Che Guevara looks ever so much more humane than George W. Bush, for instance.

Now, inflicting real pain while emitting shrill howls, yes, that we manage very nicely! It is an American thing, I suppose so that you should not try to understand it but just respect it by standing well back with your hands in plain sight at all times while not making any sudden moves.

We shall continue in this way even under new, Messianic management so don't even think about getting frisky!

airfoilmod
4th Feb 2009, 12:06
Put aside the percent pork content in the 900B grimulus shot.

Given that there may be 5M unemployed in the US, divide that into the money involved and realize that is $180,000.00 US per out of work person (family).

Do check my Math.

When did we get so seduced into trusting DC to "solve" problems? I am mystified at the sheer scale of the muppery of the American public.

Doing nothing at all would be far more wise than doing the DC Dance.
It fails to impress, this Flushing of "money" down the drain.

AF

brickhistory
4th Feb 2009, 16:57
SM:
"How about malaria and HIV prevention in Africa? Women's education and empowerment in Afganistan? Shutting down of Kaddafi's nuke ambitions? Defusing of Indian/Pakistani nuclear tensions? Medicare drug programs? Tsunami relief?"

So GWB didn't do/wasn't responsible for the above? Only the incompetent and perceived incompetent actions go to him?

I also notice you didn't answer my query about what has President Obama actually "done" so far.

Anything?

Anything?

Bueller....

con-pilot
4th Feb 2009, 17:06
SM

Uppity Europeans not even willing to comply on Kyoto? Quite a sweeping generalisation that one. Few have done less to even consider complying than Bush.


I may have misunderstood this post of yours, however, Kyoto was rejected by the US Senate when Clinton was President. Even Clinton knew it was a bad accord as did Congress.

brickhistory
4th Feb 2009, 17:16
con, you must acknowledge that every catastrophe, every bad decision, and every ill of mankind (and the globe) is solely the responsibility of GWB dating back to at least 1919 (some blame him for the Treaty of Versailles and it's unintended consequences, but that is open to debate).

Fortunately, President Obama (PBUH) is here and can solve it all by casting his rod (er, yes....) upon the ground.

Pisser to have to deliver, but never mind that now...

edited due to lack of a preposition

con-pilot
4th Feb 2009, 18:08
con, you must acknowledge that every catastrophe, every bad decision, and every ill of mankind (and the globe) is solely the responsibility of GWB dating back to at least 1919 (some blame him for the Treaty of Versailles and it's unintended consequences, but that is open to debate).


Oops, quite correct, I did forget the above. Sorry. :(

Sir Lee B´stard
4th Feb 2009, 19:43
You also forgot the Great Fire of London, the Lisbon Earthquake, extinction of the dinosaurs and most tumours in mice (or was that Maggie Thatcher?)

Pugilistic Animus
4th Feb 2009, 19:54
Obama to set executive pay limits | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE5130QG20090204)

really interested in hearing all sides

I find this thread very fascinating and I do try to learn and see other's perspectives