£1.5m to save last Vulcan bomber

[The Guvnor]

From today's Telegraph - come on guys, dig deep and save this historic part of our aviation heritage!

AN appeal was launched yesterday to raise £1.5 million to save the last
Vulcan bomber still in flying condition.

The delta-winged jets were flown by the RAF for nearly 30 years, providing
the mainstay of Britain's Cold War nuclear deterrent. Enthusiasts, who formed
the Vulcan Operating Company to buy the surviving plane from the RAF in
1993, hope to see it fly again in 2002 to mark the Queen's Golden Jubilee
and the bomber's 50th anniversary.

They have received £437,500 from the American government towards the
total restoration cost, put at £2.2 million, in exchange for the right to use the
Vulcan for flight testing. The appeal was launched yesterday at Bruntingthorpe
aerodrome in Leicestershire, where Vulcan XH558 was put on display.

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:) Happiness is a warm L1011 :)

[PA38]

Ok it's time to come out of the closet!!!!
I am a member of the 558 club, even got the T shirt, and for once I agree with the Guv it has to be put back into the air where it belongs.
If you have never seen a Vulcan doing VERY slow climbing turns, whilst standing on shaking ground you have not lived...
I hear they are trying to get the Comet also at Bruntingthorpe airworthy as well.
Visit the web site at.. http://www.vulcan558club.demon.co.uk

[This message has been edited by PA38 (edited 14 October 2000).]

[Warped Factor]

The Comet is meant to fly down to ATC Engineering at Lasham sometime fairly soon for complete refurbishment there.

WF.

[This message has been edited by Warped Factor (edited 14 October 2000).]

[The_Fin]

PA38, I have lived. It is a fantastic sight.
I had my fingers in my ears but still I remember the feel of the big jet engines and the resonating of every bone in my body as it stood still in the air balanced on the thrust.
Good luck to all those involved in the project, I look forward to seeing the big delta back in the air where she belongs.

[Dr Jekyll]

We all want to see it fly again, but the owners can't afford to keep the team together forever and have set a deadline of the end of this month to raise the cash. Looking at how long it's taken to raise less than a quarter of it, it really looks very doubtful.

[starbuck1]

Totally agree, thanks for making the appeal known. Is the Concorde going to be next?

[Flying Banana]

Just about sums it up doesn't it, the AMERICAN Government have paid half a million towards ensuring this amzing piece of BRITISH Aviation history can keep flying.

Of course our Government and the Lottery Commission will be rushing to sign a cheque for the remainder. After all if they can spend half a billion on a riverside tent full of garbage I'm sure one and a half million is just small change.

I think I've answered my own question Blair and his trendy cronies don't like that word - history - so unless private donations can be found I'm sure they will take great delight in having this symbol of Britain's tyrannical, racist, xenophobic past scrapped.

Has anyone got an address or details of where to send donations?(The link above doesn't seem to work) If every PPRuNer donated a fiver that would be another hundred grand.

[This message has been edited by Flying Banana (edited 15 October 2000).]

[Captain Mercurius]

I also had a great opportunity seeing this beautifully shaped aircraft doing these slow climbing turns, in an Air Fair in South America many years a go.

Besides, I can say that I was lucky to see it flying three times, and I kept vivid in my memory the roaring sound produced by its engines, and the gracious manoeuvres performed by this aircraft.

This is preserving history, and would be a live example of an early generation aircraft from a gone era, worth’s every effort to achieve it .

Safe Flying to all

Mercurius

[Seat 32F]

It's one of the most beautiful and majestic aircraft ever made and it is scandalous that yet another piece of the UK's magnificent aviation heritage should be overlooked and allowed to fall into disrepair.

£2m is almost peanuts these days when we can casually blow £850m on a tent.

I urge everyone who cares about this to draw as much attention as possible about it, lobby your MPs, get it in the press, buy some time for the Vulcan Operating Company.

If you do nothing, nothing will happen!

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If I press this button do the wings fall off?

[Ironguts]

Hear Hear!

500Million Quid on a poxy tent that they are talking of scapping, yet nothing for icons of British Aviation History? Shame!

What about the others tho' - The Valiant, the Victor, and even the TSR-2? ( Blue Steel anyone? ) do any of these still exist or have they all been made into Coca-Cola cans?

Note tho' that these are from the Cold-War Era - definately non-PC now that all of Europe is "Democratic".

Oh Dear,
Post a good link and they'll get my fiver!

[This message has been edited by Ironguts (edited 15 October 2000).]

[121decimal5]

Only seen one once when I was very young, walking on Headly Heath when the Cessna above us suddenly revved up and disappeared VERY fast, next thing we saw was this massive a/c going very slowly @ ~3000ft! Fantastic, I'll put in a couple of quid!

[jetfueldrinker]

Ironguts

There is a static TSR 2 at Duxford, and I believe that the other one is around somewhere, but where I don't know. I would love to see it fly, but I doubt it ever will.

[Few Cloudy]

Well once in a fit of nostalgia I contributed a LOT of money to a well known museum towards the HP Victor (which is of course much more beautiful than the Vulcan).

Got a letter back saying "Thanks - the money will go towards airconditioning (drying) equipment while the ship stands outside in Herefordshire".

Heard no more of it (and certainly never got a free ticket to the museum) but the point is - shouldn´t we be preserving all the V force types?

The kids of the future deserve to have this history available.

[The Hooded Claw]

Jetfueldrinker - the other TSR 2 is at Cosford. And you're right - it will never fly again!

[Dr Jekyll]

Ironguts.

There is a Valiant preserved in the RAF museum at Hendon.

[PA38]

A formation of the V bomber force would rival the Battle of Britain flight..
But becuase it costs mega bucks it will never happen.
Perhaps we should have the case put to the lottery commision, by a non European (can't say black) gay person pref a politcal refugee.
It's the only way I can think of funding it...
Whoops the political correct brigade will be after me now.
But it's TRUE.
:rolleyes:

[VFE]

PA38 - I've lived!!
Fantastic aeroplane, my favourite ever.
Lets all support the cause and get it back up there. (It's always been my dream to visit the cockpit of one, does anyone know where and if this is possible?).
Awesome.

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And up we go!

[Mooney]

PA38,

One question- How has the CAA taken to this idea of a Vulcan flying again? Given their past history on UK classic a/c flying.

There is also a superb Vulcan at Wellesbourne Mountford which is powered up from time to time- and it's also great to look inside.

It's good to see the US government giving some money- let's hope the UK government can provide some good backing to.

I also saw the Vulcan being displayed at RAF Abingdon during the 1980's it was an amazing site and the noise will live with me for life. :)

[Troy Tempest]

VFE - you can visit the cockpit of a Vulcan at the North East Aircraft Museum in Sunderland - it's open most weekends. Unfortunately this one will never fly but you get the feeling for it! It would be good to see funding allocated not just to get on example flying but the 15 or so around the country restored to a high standard!

[PA38]

The last I heard is if enough money could be found, the the CAA and BAe had no objection, and would even help!(that would be a first for the CAA)

[Seat 32F]

Are the RAF still using Victors as tankers?

The Valiants had to be retired early I think due to airframe problems so I doubt if it is at all possible to get one of those in the air again. Of the three V-bombers the Vulcan was by far the most impressive. The purest roar from those engines was wonderful. Worth downloading this 385k wav file: http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/mongsoft/sound.htm but it can never really compensate for the real thing.

As for the TSR-2: another aircraft way ahead of its time and a great British technological triumph scuppered by politicians. http://warbird.totavia.com/tsr2.html

[Thrush]

There is a cracking Victor at the Yorkshire Air Museum at Elvington, near York. On open days they fire it up and do fast taxy runs etc along the US built 12,000 foot runway.

Museum is well worth a visit, preferably on a sunny day!

[Vmike]

A mate of mine, one Roy Jacobsen, bought Vulcans XM655 and XM558 off the RAF about 15 years ago for around £7,000 each. Shedloads of spares were thrown in for nothing!! Both were flown in, one to Wellesbourne Mountford, one to Southend, so they were fully airworthy then.

He then proceeded to fight the CAA for about 10 years, bashing his head against a brick wall and eventually - and who can blame him - gave up the good fight to preserve his sanity. Rather than spend the rest of his life in a rubber room, he sold the aeroplanes, for nothing like what he paid for them.

He is delighted that somebody else took up the fight and will, hopefully, get this wonderful aeroplane back in the sky where it belongs.

I saw one at Biggin about 10 years ago. It came howling down the runway at 200 feet, pulled up and POURED the power on. The ground shook and 50,000 car alarms went off in the car park!!!!! Brilliant!

[VFE]

Thanks for the info Troy. I will go there sometime.
The first time I saw the Vulcan was in 1987 (I was about 9 or 10 at the time), it was the weekend of the Fairford Air Tatoo and I was cycling home in the rain and it flew right over my head. Truely awesome sight over the suburbs where I lived. That was it, my aviation fascination had begun!
Saw her many times after at airshows and the take-offs were always the highlight - loud did someone say?!! I really could bang on all night about 'that' aeroplane but I'll spare you!

Take care, VFE.


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And up we go!

[wazthat4us]

VFE, if you venture 'up North' , do pay a visit to Carlisle Airport, and the Solway Aviation Society's excellent Vulcan. No longer able to move under it's own power, it is however in beutiful condition and its 'systems' are regularly run up. They usually make the cockpit available to visitors at weekends for a small fee. That in it's self is worth the journey. Can anyone imagine what it must have been like for a crew of 5 to be stuck in that 'cave', especially from Waddington to the Falklands?!

[PODKNOCKER]

How about the VIRGIN VULCAN? Paint it white and put a Virgin V on the fin (V Force)and let RB advertise from the bomb bay. Good way to promote the People's Lottery? Suggested this to the team several years ago at an airshow. Did they try?

[SilentHandover]

Reference the Vulcan at Biggin, i think it was one of it's last display flights in this country and i seem to remember it blew the hell out of the runway, ripping up large amounts of concrete, hoorah for sheer power.

[AquaPlane]

Try http://www.tvoc.co.uk for The Vulcan Operating Company. Some cool movie clips on there too, one in particular showing an awesome t/o and climb out. There's a Vulcan at Blackpool, but it's had no TLC at all and coupled with the damp and salty sea air (it's 500yds from the sea) has resulted in it becoming corroded to bu99ery. http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif

Saw the Vulc at Carlisle. Looks lovely, but still corroded. Their Lightning is totally knacked from what I could see. Spent half an hour probing round it (couldn't see high enough into the Vulc...!) Looks like some murderer took an angle grinder to the Lightning to make sure it'd never fly again. http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif

TVOC can have my fiver for sure.

Aq

(Edited to correct typo)

[This message has been edited by AquaPlane (edited 16 October 2000).]

[waco]

Lets leave the past in the past.
Keep that wonderful aircraft on the ground where it belongs. Putting a jet like that back in the air is asking for trouble and I for one would not like it flying over my head or house. Can it really be operated safely, I think not!

[UKAR]

Being the webmaster for both the TVOC and Vulcan 558 Club sites I thought I'd better add my quid's worth.

Official sites are www.tvoc.co.uk (http://www.tvoc.co.uk) and www.vulcan558club.co.uk (http://www.vulcan558club.co.uk)

The TVOC site has the address and tel. no.s for sending donations but it would be best to give them a call to find out who to make cheques out to as the Vulcan Restoration Trust at Southend will be taking the money, they are a registered charity and can claim the tax back. Online credit card donations are in the pipeline.

A few places to get inside a Vulcs cockpit are as follows:
Jet Age Museum, Staverton, Glos, they have a nose section which you can climb in.
Newark Air Museum, Notts?, complete airframe and they occasionally run up the APU.
Southend Airport, the Vulcan Restoration Trust's Vulc has open days during the year where cockpit visits are possible. For dates go to www.xl426.com (http://www.xl426.com)

Another worthy cause is the Comet 'Canopus' at Bruntingthorpe, they were supposed to fly it to Lasham this month but as Frank Spencer would say "they are having a bit of trouble", with the CAA so the flight wont take place until next year.

For those who have never experienced a Vulcan in flight I feel sorry for you. First time I saw it in action was at an airshow at North Weald. I was standing about half way down the runway, the Vulcan was lined up, the engines wound up to an amazing howl, the brakes released and it came thundering down the runway. It took off with the characteristic steep climb and the noise made your whole body vibrate. Its whole display stays virtually within the airfield boundary, no other aircraft has given so much pleasure to airshow crowds.

I've been doing an 'Airshow Awards' feature on my own website (www.airshows.co.uk) throughout the summer and in the most missed display category the Vulcan takes up at least 50% of the nominations. It needs to be flown!

[Unwell_Raptor]

I'm with you waco. It sometimes seems to me that we are asking too much of our vintage fleet. Heaven forbid, but it would only take one horrific accident involving a heavy aircraft to throw the whole warbird movement into question. I have the utmost respect for those who restore and operate old aircraft, but aged designs are one problem, and the temptation to push the envelope just a little too far is te other.

I used to admire the Vulcan too, but it is just too big and too complex to be operated privately.

[skua]

You use the word "privately" in a pejorative sense. If you had met the TVOC crowd, they are professional rather than private. They have a lot of backing from BAe; the designated skipper is the captain of the BoB Lancaster, and that is only his weekend job. They deserve support.

[SKINNY1]

I too would love to see a Vulcan flying again after an experience in the early 80's.

I was sitting on a farmers fence at the end of the runway at Yeovilton during the airshow. A Vulcan came in for landing, must have been no more than 60ft above me, the vibration knocked me off the fence, face down into a cow pat http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/redface.gif :)

[knows]

VFE - you can also get inside - thanks to a nice bunch of old gents at Coventry museum.

[Seat 32F]

Waco / Raptor:

Understandably there might be some concerns (as with all flight matters) but I'd say that if they get 558 airborne again they would more likely treat it with kid gloves than push it to its limits.

In terms of risk, how much time will it actually be in the air per year? The risk must be a blummin' lot lower than having say a Malaysian 747 running on empty flying over London every day (OK I'm exaggerating here but you know what I mean).

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"If I press this button do the wings fall off?"

[Busta]

Well said waco. In a previous life I can remember how difficult it was to keep them flying even when we had hangars full of spares and barrack blocks full of well trained technicians, we've been shaving with all the others for nearly 20 years.

be careful out there.

[Evening Star]

PA38

I have lived! And have been 'living' since I was 9 when the family went for a walk up Dunkery Beacon in Somerset and a low flying Vulcan went right over top of us. The image of that great big delta wing right overhead is an enduring childhood memory, and until my eyes let me down http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif I wanted to join the RAF and fly one.

ES

[Blacksheep]

When I think of how many of us it took, and how hard we worked, to keep them airborne when they were the "V" Force with absolutely top priority on spares (anyone remember 'VOG' which trumped 'AOG'?) I really don't think that one and half million pounds is realistic. That may get the majestic old beast airborne again but for how long? Let the old girl rest in peace. She's earned it!

**********************************
Through difficulties to the cinema

[ExMPA]

The Vulcan was a joy to fly but it's over now.It is a very complex and ageing aircraft. I agree that it should be kept in flyable condition, but not flown. Let's remember that in its day it bit quite a few people and they were all current on it. I do not know what the quals of the current BoB Flt Lanc pilot are but I am afraid that I don't see Lanc currency as relevant and anyway who will the co-pilot be and just as importantly who will act as AEO? You can't operate 10P from the front (ex Vulcan mates will understand that one).

It was great jet and I admit that I have stood under the one at Duxford and whispered "One more time, just once more, please" But, it's over, let's let it be.

[VFE]

If that is the case: that they bit back so-to-speak, and now more so (no doubt), then so be it.
I didn't know that it was one of those 'tricky' machines. My respect to those in the know.
£1.5m is very small when you look at some of the things that Camelot spend dosh on isn't it though?
Still, if it's going to be a hazard then I'll be very happy to stick to the childhood memories. RIP V.

But I'll never give up.


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And up we go!

[karrank]

Flypast May 1993. XH558, Bowing to the inevitable.

"...the Vulcan had around 18 flying hours left on the airframe..."

Minus a bit for the delivery flight that will run to 130,000 per remaining flying hour, plus gas!

That is a bit much to get back in the air something that only fired one shot in anger and missed.

[Dr Jekyll]

Karrank, check your facts before pontificating.
When it was grounded it only had a few hours to run before needing a major service and strengthening work to extend the fatigue life. The new owners have budgeted for this (which is why they expect to spend over 2 million) and this will give the aircraft a remaining life of around 350 hours.
Do you really imagine the owners wouldn't have thought of airframe life?

[UKAR]

The million or so to get the aircraft flying is the difficulty, companies are reluctant to spend money on a project that will take a year or so before they get any return for their invesment. Once the aircraft is in the air again then the financial committment will be forthcoming to keep it going for the rest of its flying life (around 5-6 seasons). After that it will be grounded for good, although taxi runs would still be possible.

There is no greater danger of flying it than any other large historic aircraft. The restoration will be carried out by Marshalls with assistance from BAE, a large number of OEMs are also assisting. She will be flown by a crew who used to fly her before the RAF sold her off. Its not some sort of pipe dream thought up by a bunch of enthusiasts. In my opinion historic aircraft should be kept flying as long and as safely as possible, not just grounded, especially the Vulcan as it was a great recruitment tool for the RAF, a marvel of British aircraft design and can possibly be thought of as a keeper of the peace during the cold war.

She might be an old lady but she's young at heart.

[This message has been edited by UKAR (edited 18 October 2000).]

[EGAC]

My happiest Vulcan memory was watching one display at Edwards AFB Open House in 1980.
While most of us from the UK could become accustomed to seeing it,the American public all around me were simply astonished that something that big and of that shape could fly at all, never mind put on a decent display.

That said, I have my reservations about proposed restoration of the beast. Technical grounds aside, IMHO the sort of money being concentrated in one airframe could produce a lot of happiness if spread around a bit.


:) :) :)

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Safety is no accident

[Tartan Gannet]

As soon as Credit Card donations are on line I will happily contribute.

There was a TSR2 at RNAS Yeovilton as far as I aware. A great aircraft well ahead of its time scrapped by the lisping "Woy" Jenkins when Aviation Minister in the mid 1960s.

I have to say it for the USA, they at least preserve their Military Heritage, such as the Iowa Class Battleships, some of which were taken out of mothballs to again perform their primary purpose. We ought to have saved either HMS Warspite which saw servive in both World Wars last (20th) century or HMS Vanguard which was the last battleship built for the Royal Navy but which never fired a shot in anger.

Good Luck to all who wish to save the Vulcan.

[buck-rogers]

I believe the last time I saw one fly it was doing a circuit over Strke Command in Bucks, years ago. Banked over it was a marvel to watch, looked like it was stood still in the air. One of those moments that remains etched in my memory for ever.

[Hew Jampton]

Best Vulcan memories for me are its appearance at a Biggin Hill air show. As it approached at low level, the airshow PA system played 'Mars' from the Planet Suite; a brilliant matching of music and machine. The Vulcan could produce a unique noise as power was applied in flight, a sort of roaring, called , I believe, the 'blue note'.

I recommend the video 'Vulcan - A Farewell to Arms', from DD Video at www.ddvideo.co.uk (http://www.ddvideo.co.uk)

[Seat 32F]

That 'blue note' noise was just amazing - it conjured up images of some sort of primeval monster... I used to go to Mildenhall airshow every year specifically to see and hear this spectacle.

[ExSimGuy]

Guvnor,

If RB won't do it (see post at top of page) how about you? Imagine a Vulcan with "Celtic Airways" on the sides, and seats installed as a "pull" to the charter PAX to IBZ :)

What's more, at 1.5 mill, it could be cheaper than a 1011 ;)

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---- "Per Ardua ad Mixas" ----
(Through hardship to the bars)