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angelorange
30th Jan 2009, 17:28
Economic Downturn - mostly the result of negative reporting? How many balancing arguments are there in the media? Sir David Tang beleives it's a self fulfilling prophesy!

See: BBC NEWS | Business | Optimism is the cure for the downturn (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7785564.stm)

SpringHeeledJack
30th Jan 2009, 18:08
Positivity begets positivity, negativity likewise.

However, the worldwide financial crisis is what it is. It's not a crisis of confidence (although confidence is in crisis) but the result of a systematic abuse of the world's financial system over many years. Greed has supplanted wisdom and now an almighty mess needs to be untangled.

There is so much toxic debt in the system, that most would be shocked if they really knew. Until now no measures have worked, because they can't. The media can (and will) report on the misery, as we all know bad news sells and this will affect the psyche of the man in the street.... maybe. Maybe he won't spend as freely and this will cause some businesses to suffer, but how ever annoying the 'pessimism' is to hear, it's not the cause or the effect, merely an all too human symptom.


regards


SHJ

merlinxx
30th Jan 2009, 19:53
Am I lucky to be completely debt free:ok: I damn well think so:ok:

Loose rivets
30th Jan 2009, 20:21
I know I won't enjoy it...and all the diodes down my left side are hurting.


The first million years were the worst. :(

GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU
30th Jan 2009, 20:53
Am I lucky to be completely debt free

Same here but we are the ones who are being buggered sideways! Look at your savings in relation to the (usually doctored) inflation rate. We are the ones who will end up financing the feckless f**kwits who significanly contributed to our hollow economy. Sorry, rant over.

Yes, I've also noticed how the "media" are hell bent on talking our Economy into the ground. That said, the Bank of England and the Treasury aren't doing too bad themselves, in that respect. The question is, what's behind it?

Parapunter
30th Jan 2009, 21:07
Some documentary on the other night. Middle aged couple managed to hock themselves to the tune of 120k or so moaning that now the merry go round has stopped and they're having to pay it back & only having 100 for themselves - "we have no life anymore" thgen blamed the credit card companies.
It's not our fault, they kept giving us bigger limits, more money.

WELL YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO TAKE IT YOU FECKLESS PAIR OF CRETINS. BECAUSE OF YOU AND THE MILLIONS OF MORONS LIKE YOU I NOW CAN'T GET A BIGGER MORTGAGE TO MOVE HOUSE OR EARN A PENNY ON MY SAVINGS, WHICH INCIDENTALLY I BUILT UP FOR MY FUTURE AND A RAINY DAY WHILST YOU WERE GETTTING PISSED IN LAS VEGAS ON TICK AND WHICH INCIDENTALLY ARE NOW DWINDLING BECAUSE YOUR MATES IN THE BANKS WHO FORCED YOU TO TAKE ALL THIS MONEY HAVE WRECKED THE WHOLE PLACE.

Strangely, I don't feel better after that.

arcniz
31st Jan 2009, 01:54
BECAUSE OF YOU AND THE MILLIONS OF MORONS LIKE YOU I NOW CAN'T GET A BIGGER MORTGAGE TO MOVE HOUSE OR EARN A PENNY ON MY SAVINGS, WHICH INCIDENTALLY I BUILT UP FOR MY FUTURE AND A RAINY DAY WHILST YOU WERE GETTTING PISSED IN LAS VEGAS ON TICK AND WHICH INCIDENTALLY ARE NOW DWINDLING BECAUSE YOUR MATES IN THE BANKS WHO FORCED YOU TO TAKE ALL THIS MONEY HAVE WRECKED THE WHOLE PLACE.

We have also had this thought - and found it similarly unsatisfying.

The gullible consumers and even the small-time swindlers who bought the concept and spent like no tomorrow on borrowed resources so they now are wiped out are hardly as responsible as the business-people who masterminded the schemes the suckers bought into, the bureaucrats and administrators who looked the other way or just didn't look at all, the politicians who supported the petitioners with the most money and the fanciest suits when policy decisions were to be made, and the amoral technician-financiers who did and do play against the fates of societies and perhaps even civilisations to devise the financial fictions, frauds, and lies that are now seeming to bankrupt the entire planet.

Hangings, garrotage, and the like, whether official or impromptu, would seem to be a righteous disincentive that should be made demonstrably more palpable to the money-changers and their ilk - not too hard to make a list of the top 50,000 - who even now are gloating and scheming to profit from the rubble.

If wishes were horses....

airfoilmod
31st Jan 2009, 02:01
You might be interested to know how right you are. In the days when America had money, a huge super-collider was planned for Texas. Cancelled, there were hundreds of (mainly) mathematicians, who were out of work and gravitated to Wall Street. Derivatives are the result of changing focus from physics to phynance. (Not an urban legend).

AF

arcniz
31st Jan 2009, 02:07
all the diodes down my left side are hurting

You shouldn't put off seeing someone about that. Seems like a problem that needs to be promptly rectified.

arcniz
31st Jan 2009, 03:16
Very much on point, Airfoilmod.

In the days when America had money, a huge super-collider was planned for Texas. Cancelled, there were hundreds of (mainly) mathematicians, who were out of work and gravitated to Wall Street. Derivatives are the result of changing focus from physics to phynance. (Not an urban legend).

At least the politicians have so-far had enough wisdom (or fear) to keep paying off the hard-core weapons-guys with large brains and dangerous skills, so they are comfortably tucked away in the various Federal Labs in widely-dispersed remote places until ready to retire to golf and canasta.

(Recently saw a film about the Fermilab folks struggling against the same sort of adverse fiscal current in a resource-squeezed US, vs the exhuberantly EU-funded Humongous Hadron thingie southwest the Alps.)

"Tant pis", a frog might say.

(one does recall, however, that much of the opposition to the Texas rad-ring came from other players in the US science R&D community, who argued that it would suck up most of the available funds for research for a decade, thus depriving ones in disciplines other than physics of the funding necessary to develop careers and do the expensive research necessary for completing the PhD track in their respective corners of the academic swamp. )

Loose rivets
31st Jan 2009, 05:36
You shouldn't put off seeing someone about that. Seems like a problem that needs to be promptly rectified.


Oh, very droll. Others may not have got it, but it was crystal clear to me. :8

Wiley
31st Jan 2009, 09:36
Same here but we are the ones who are being buggered sideways! Look at your savings in relation to the (usually doctored) inflation rate. We are the ones who will end up financing the feckless f**kwits who significanly contributed to our hollow economy.I have to agree. As one of the boring old farts who always paid his credit card off in full every month before it was due, only ever took out a mortgage I could afford to repay (and that I have now repaid in full), I can't help but feel that I will soon find myself a casualty of that classic situation of "if you owe the bank a million, you're in trouble; if you owe the bank a 100 million, the bank's in trouble".

The pollies will do whatever it takes to minimise the pain for the maximum number of voters. A huge number of voters are now living in McMansions they can't afford to pay off and/or have credit card bills they'll never be able to repay. But they can vote, and just like the proverbial bank being owed 100 million (as above) there are enough in this situation to have passed critical mass - ie, they can't be ignored, and must be "accommodated" (no pun intended).

The money's going to have to come from somewhere, and some poor bastard is going to have to pay the piper. I've got a bad feeling I know who that will be. Moi and people like me.

BombayDuck
31st Jan 2009, 11:06
Others may not have got it, but it was crystal clear to me.

If enough people aren't getting, it's probably a sine that kids today are turning out more square....

Storminnorm
31st Jan 2009, 14:28
I couldn't give a toss what happens to the rest of you.
I'm all right Jack!
Looking forward to the mass bankrupties.
Might pick up a few bargains along the way.

The bank told me years ago that I had NO credit rating,
because I'd NEVER borrowed anything. Thanks HSBC,
did me a real favour then!!!

merlinxx
31st Jan 2009, 16:45
Agree Storming, one bank in Creepy once told me (1970 when I got back from NBO), no history no credit, no account ! But I says, I banked with you lot in NBO, the manager says to me "where's that then", **** em walked out.:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

As you seem to be a local, twas the one in the high st which is now the RBoS, bunch of tossers:ugh:

Loose rivets
31st Jan 2009, 17:23
When I got here for a long stay some years ago, I went to Target stores and got a trolley-load of household tat. "If you join this or that, you'll get a 10% discount orf yer shopping." (well actually she had a Spanish accent, but never mind)

Anyway, we got a letter saying we hadn't got a good enough credit reference to have a Target card.

"But...But..." I cried. "I have no record of repayments...cos I never borrow anything!" No protesting did any good...I was a poor risk.


We had to address that problem with both the main credit reference people to begin to live normally. Took weeks.


Paying up cards is not always a good idea. I always do, but there are times...

A while back, keeping cards paid up cost me $200,000 - at least. I was working on a do-upper in Essex, and my card had been hit for building materials. I was short of any easily liquidated funds. The house was boooootiful...put a year's work into it and was just at the standing back and admiring phase when I got worried. Sooooooo pleased to sell it in Loot. Clever, me-ee. Such a relief to pay up me Visa.

What a dick-head!

I sold it into a rising market...and last time home I saw to my total disbelief that it was now two houses. The bloke probably got more for half the garden than I got for the whole shebang. At the exchange rate we were enjoying, that would have bought a 4,000 sq ft house with a swimming pool and tennis court in Texas. Bum! Bum! and Bum again! :ugh:

M.Mouse
31st Jan 2009, 17:55
But isn't a pessimist an optimist with the benefit of experience?

airfoilmod
31st Jan 2009, 18:28
"Good judgment comes from experience.

Experience comes from bad judgment". Mark Twain

AF

cockney steve
31st Jan 2009, 21:36
Quote:You shouldn't put off seeing someone about that. Seems like a problem that needs to be promptly rectified.


Oh, very droll. Others may not have got it, but it was crystal clear to me.

Quote:Others may not have got it, but it was crystal clear to me.

If enough people aren't getting, it's probably a sine that kids today are turning out more square....

I think you're going off at a tangent, maybe you shoulddirectyour energy to the currentthread-subject.


my friend Di. owed........

hat, coat.

Civis
1st Feb 2009, 18:19
Back to thread title
We all know these people, doom I tell ya, never happy :{

Excerpt from Schopenhauer's proof:

" - since a worse world could not continue to exist,
it is absolutely impossible;
and so the world itself is the worst of all possible worlds. "

Off to find an old Tom Lehrer tune and a clip of the character RIVET'S
quoted which one has used on the terminally unhappy.

--
Here we go, want something to really worry about :confused:

YouTube - We'll All Go Together When We Go (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKR8wFDfq4Y)

Full cut version

YouTube - Tom Lehrer - We Will All Go Together When We Go (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frAEmhqdLFs&feature=related)

Clip of RIVET'S character quote for those not familiar with Hitchhiker

YouTube - Hitchhikers Guide - Marvin waits millennia getting depressed (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4P3pvKmbsg&feature=related)