Grrrr Words fail me..........Happy ending for Joe Townsend

[NutLoose]

:mad: (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/defence/4365439/Council-blocks-new-home-for-maimed-Marine.html)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/defence/4365439/Council-blocks-new-home-for-maimed-Marine.html

[albatross]

Perhaps we take up a collection to sent the council to Afghanistan for an extended "fam visit".:mad:

[TiffyFGR4]

Disgrace!!!!:mad::mad::mad:

Tell you what, if he painted himself black, spoke with a foreign accent.....Watch them come round & fit pretty much anything he wanted.

[alwayslookingup]

This is disappointing and a desperate situation for this young guy and his family. However, emotive though the matter is, it will have been decided purely in line with the Council’s policies on land use.

Although the press report doesn’t make this too clear, it looks like the situation is fairly rural and the Council’s policies will exist to try and preserve this as far as possible.

Whilst not wishing to minimise the sacrifice this guy and his family have made, and will continue to make, it should be borne in mind that planning regulations must treat everyone fairly. There are many situations where families might like to make a special case for building a house where otherwise one would not be considered. We may think of the parents of a special needs child who wish to provide for an independent life as it grows older. Alternatively we may think of children with elderly parents who may feel better if they lived closer as their years advanced. Furthermore, there are many people incapacitated by road or industrial accidents, all of whom would love to make a special case for homes where ones would otherwise not be permitted. Added to that there are just simple chancers, and I say that mindful of the original subject of this post, Marine Townsend, whom I mean absolutely no ill will towards by that comment. Unfortunately planning history is littered is littered with just such chancers who, having been able to make a plausible case for a dream home in the countryside, promptly sell it on, sometimes without even having built it, just merely selling the plot of land with its planning consent.

Anyway, that’s my tuppence worth. As I say, a desperately sad situation and my comments in no way are intended to detract for the situation the Marine and his family are in. I speak also as someone who from my early teens to late twenties had a large responsibility (along with my widowed Mother) for a kid brother left paraplegic due to medical negligence.

Feel free to flame me if you wish

[Wiley]

"We have suggested an alternative which would involve building an annexe on to the existing dwelling belonging to a family member. Says it all, doesn't it? (:*!)

[BEagle]

The refusal of planning permission is stated in this document:

http://www.wealden.gov.uk/moderngov/Published/C00000303/M00002500/AI00022812/$082516.docA.ps.pdf

Para 6 only lists the telephone numbers of the 'team leader' and 'case officer' involved. Uniquely amongst the posted list of councillors, Councillor Ms Barby Dashwood-Hall, the chairman of the development control south sub-committee, declines to provide any contact details....... Although it would appear to be [email protected] from a cached source.

The Sun today reports:

Communities Secretary Hazel Blears demanded an urgent re-think after they banned Joe Townsend from building a specially-adapted bungalow.

Last night furious Ms Blears stepped into the row and declared: “Heroes deserve much better than this.”

She has no power to over-rule the decision by Wealden District Council.

But she called on planners to reconsider Joe’s application which is unopposed by neighbours in Hankham, East Sussex. Ms Blears said: “It’s a heartless decision.”

Perhaps e-mails in support of Hazel Blears should be sent to Ms B Dashwood-Hall at the e-mail address listed for her in the Hellingly Parish Council (http://www.hellingly-pc.org.uk/councillors/) website - with an apology for using a private e-mail address, since her official Wealden District Council e-mail address is, curiously, currently missing?

[Pontius Navigator]

Or you could write:

Ms,Dashwood-Hall,Barby,,The Priest House,Church Lane,,,BN274HA,Hellingly,Hailsham,East Sussex

[alwayslookingup]

Gents,

I rather think this has gone beyond the good Councillors now. In essence they have made their decision and that is that.

The applicants now have two possible courses of action open to them. The most feasible is to Appeal the Council's decision to the Planning Inspectorate.

The second is to generate a bit of a head of steam and simply re-submit their application, hoping for a more favourable decision from the Councillors second time around. North of the Border, where I write, an applicant can re-submit any time within twelve months without having to pay another application fee but I wouldn't know if that's the same in England & Wales.

I feel another campaign coming on, anyone remember Mole Valley District Council & Headley Court in July 2006?

Regards to one and all.

[BEagle]

PN, the disadvantage of writing is that you cannot copy your letter to your local MP and to the Communities Secretary [email protected] quite so easily.

The Sun seems to have got a good head of steam up over this issue - and quite rightly so too!

[Mr C Hinecap]

Please get off your high horses and write to the Mail - not here. Your wailing and hand-wringing is tedious. I bet you NIMBYs would have objected if it threatened the ambience of your country residences. Other options that are equally suitable have not yet been explored.

I have every sympathy for the injured RM, but you lot getting all in a tizz about a single planning application is just sad.

[BEagle]

but you lot getting all in a tizz about a single planning application is just sad.

I think it's called 'being supportive'? If the Communities Secretary feels moved to comment that “Heroes deserve much better than this”, I feel it far from unreasonable that servicemen and ex-servicemen should also feel moved to comment. Hardly 'sad', I would suggest.

Anyway, my e-mail to Cllr Dashwood-Hall addresses hasn't been bounced, so I guess that both addresses were correct.

[alwayslookingup]

Thanks Mr C, that was kind of my point, put somewhat more directly if I may say!

[Old Fella]

From a mere colonial lad from Down under. Those responsible for the welfare of the injured Royal Marine should be supporting him in his endeavours to have a suitable place to reside, in fact, they should bloody well provide it for him. Sometimes the rules can and should be bent, especially in this case where it is reported that none of the neighbors raised any objection to the proposed construction. Again, shiny arsed pen pushers rule it seems. :ugh:

[Dragon79]

alwayslookingup & Mr C

Agree that writing here is going to change, but um, is that pretty much like every other post on the internet.

As for you guys, heres hoping you life a long, without ever having to live in a government run home catering for younger people with such issues. I have had a mate in a similar situation, and he was placing in a nursing home, becuase those sorts of facilities just don't exist in any great number for younger people.The fact that he has family willing to build him a place and look after him, is an exception.

Farkin councils and public servants, I think a David Brent quote sums them all up best,

"Process and Procedure are the last hiding place of people without the wit and wisdom to do their job properly."

[Double Zero]

Chineheap & co, I live in one of the most expensive little villages in the country; I would be happy to see this Marine move in nearby ( 'next door' doesn't really exist in our case, but same applies if it did ).

I would regard the presence of real people like him and his supporters a distinct improvement over chinless property developers etc.

It seems despite being a listed area, one can add extensions etc to the back of one's house, mostly circa 1600's, as long as one knows the right member of the council / golf course / hunt ( pass me that gatling gun ).

They say a society may be judged by the way it treats its' elders ( UK fails miserably on that too ) - same applies to how it treats those who have given their all for their country.

The Ghurkas are another point which springs to mind.

'Shiny arsed pen-pushers' like to think they rule; it's up to us to convince them otherwise - am mailing the council address given.

[thegypsy]

I have the misfortune to live in the Wealden District Council area and have had dealings with both the Planning and Conservation Departments and without doubt they are the most awkward unreasonable people to deal with. God help you if you have a Listed house in this area as the Conservation Dept have to be seen to be believed.

The planning application is WD/2008/2516 which will come up with full details if you google it.

Wealden website is Wealden District Council homepage (http://www.wealden.gov.uk)

[Double Zero]

Thegypsy ( God I hope you're not one, they're the only group I would happily exclude from this planet, let alone a county ! )...

I wonder if the council would treat you the same if you knew the right person socially, don't know about Wealden - but am getting the idea - I lived in Somerset for a while and it is fair to say it is run by the masons - members I knew could get away with anything short of being caught at a murder scene...

I was unfortunately with some at a meal one evening, some of the guests had travelled over 20 miles in thick fog to get there, then drank away to their fill.

When I expressed my concern over what if they A, crashed, B, were stopped by the police, the answer was " Oh, we needn't worry about that one "...

I have mailed Ms Dashwood-Hall and Parliament, not holding my breath for a reply.

I hope Joe Townsend is reading all this...

[Winco]

The thing that gets to more than anything is that we can allow enormous great mosques and God-knows what else (pardon the pun) for 'the minorites, and yet when it comes to looking after one of our own, we're faced with beaurocatric rubbish from the likes of Ms Dashwood-Hall, or Barbie to her friends.
Just about sums things up really, a council run by a Barbie (doll)

Shame on you and shame on the whole council at Wealdon. Your decision is nothing short of a national disgrace.

Mr Townsend, you have my utmost sympathy. If you ever want to move up to the great land of Geordies, we will welcome you with open arms Sir, and I guarantee you won't ever have to buy another beer for yourself!!

Best wishes to you.
The Winco

[thegypsy]

Winco

Just for the record this application went to committee with a refusal recommendation by the planning officers of Wealden. Councillors could have overturned this and approved it if they were so minded to do so and the DCS have in the past gone against planning officer's views but on this occasion failed to do so.Cllr Dashwood could have given some leadership here but clearly failed to see the merits of the application.

Double Zero Wealden do not like gypsy applications on fields and always refuse them but more often than not are overruled on appeal by the Planning Inspectorate due to the PC attitude here these days.No I am not one but have felt like one over the years and share your views.:D

[Doctor Cruces]

Double Zero,

Not only slander of every honest person who works in Local Government planning but Racism as well. I suggest you be careful of your outrageous comments on a public forum. My wife works in planning and is scrupulously honest and does her job without fear or favour.

And just for the record, disability is not a planning issue. Getting p*ssed off at planners for not doing what you want because they just can't is like asking your plumber to give an opinion on a problem with your electrics and getting mad at him because he can't.


MODS: Please do something about this.

Doc C.

[Terry K Rumble]

I was so incensed when I read this story that I decided to phone Ms Barby Dashwood-Hall on 01323 844374 (Number given to me by Alex White of the council if anyone wants to know) and ask her why she was not able to help this guy out. I gave her my name and address and politely told her that both she and her council should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves for this outrageous decision.

I pointed out to her that this chap had given everything barr his life for this country, and that IMHO her council had a duty and responsibility to help him out in his hour of need. She said little other than that she appreciated my call!

Now I'm not suggesting for a minute that people should phone her up and give her grief, clearly that won't achieve anything, but perhaps a few of you more 'better educated' type chaps on here (BEagle maybe?) might like to have a chat with her, use your charms and try to get her and the council to reconsider their decision?

To RM Townsend, my best wishes to you, I'm saddened and annoyed that you are being treated this way, it's a disgrace.

TKR

[Double Zero]

Winco,

In Crawley, a truly awful town about 9 miles from
here, there are actually main road signs directing one to the mosques...

:mad:

[pr00ne]

"there are actually main road signs directing one to the mosques..."


Just what the hell is wrong with that?

The racist undertones on some of these posts are a disgrace and will NOT contribute one jot to the Marines case.

[Doctor Cruces]

What's wrong with that, Double Z?

In Norwich, a truly delightful place some twenty miles or so from where I live, there are signpost all over the place to churches. I don't believe in their god either but I'm not offended.

I would suggest you have no place posting on this forum if you can not keep your racism and biggotry to yourself and hope the mods ban you for life.

Doc C: ugh::ugh::mad::mad:

[BEagle]

Doc C, I agree with you on your posts #20 and #24.

Real Romany gypsies were a familiar presence in the countryside when I were a lad down Zumazett way. Also in Lincolnshire; I was driving cautiously past a roadside gypsy camp once when a youngster ran out into the narrow road. I stopped in time, his 'somewhat large' mother called "Thank you", before giving him such a wallop that I could almost feel the impact. They certainly knew how to control their children - I'll bet he didn't do it again!

Unfortunately various ne'er do wells and sundry low life are often incorrectly termed 'gypsy' these days by the ignorant.

Back on topic, in fact the decision was far from unanimous and other councillors pleaded in favour of the application. So don't criticise them unfairly.

The report indicates that the proposed bungalow would be 'visually intrusive'. GOOD! I prefer to think of that as 'visually significant' - and it would remind all those who saw it of the sacrifice made by this Royal Marine on their behalf.

All I wrote to Ms Dashwood-Hall was:

I apologise for using your personal e-mail address; for some reason your Wealden District Council contact details have been deleted from the council's website.

I refer to the matter of your refusal to grant planning permission for WD/2008/2516/F - the proposed disabled chalet bungalow intended to support the needs of disabled Royal Marine Joe Townsend.

I wish to state my full support for the Communities Secretary's demand that you should reconsider this application and request that your Development Control South Sub-committee takes immediate action to do so in response to the public outrage which has resulted from your decision.
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/nw969/Internet/zxzxz.jpg
And pr00ne, make that 4 times now I've agreed with you!

[Terry K Rumble]

See what I mean BEagle?

"I refer to the matter of your refusal to grant planning permission for WD/2008/2516/F - the proposed disabled chalet bungalow intended to support the needs of disabled Royal Marine Joe Townsend.

I wish to state my full support for the Communities Secretary's demand that you should reconsider this application and request that your Development Control South Sub-committee takes immediate action to do so in response to the public outrage which has resulted from your decision."

I could never have found such words like that!!!
TKR

[oldpusser]

As a resident of deepest darkest Hampshire, south of the M27 it is incredible the space and justification that can be found to squeeze more houses into the smallest of plots and when a major development is opposed we are advised that while there may be objections this will be overruled by the Home Sec since the housing is needed for the growing population. (Have to say its all looking at bit sick at the moment - different thread) It is a great shame that the normally over powering interfering government don't feel obliged to get more involved in sorting this very worthy unique (a word often over used but justified in this case) application.

[Double Zero]

Doc C,

Thanks very much for your misguided input.

If you had direct experience, as I have at several locations, of 'Gypsies' - - I do not use the term in ignorance, the inhabitantsof such places which cause so much trouble in various ways find it convenient to call themselves that - then you may appreciate what I mean; maybe at some dim time in the past there was a genuine core of Romanies, but that is not the case nowadays.

I could give you plenty of personal and close friends' examples.

I have not committed slander or racism ( inhabitants of gypsy camps are unfortunately British, unless it suits them to claim something else when the tax man or officials try to call).

I have offered my support for someone crippled serving his country, and feel councillors and planning rules are a very distant second - it's a shame you prefer being fluffy PC rather than feeling like helping someone who needs it.

I mentioned mosques in reply to Winco's post, which I completely agree with; a large percentage of Muslims are obviously decent people, but such places have also been proven fermenting grounds of the type responsible for Mr.Townsend's legs...the gist of it is, ' charity begins at home', and if planners can allow mosques for whole neighborhoods, they should be able & willing to assist rather than hinder British servicemen who have paid such a price.

If anyone needs banning, it's you with your priorities.

I have mailed 'Barbie' and Hazel Blears.

[racedo]

but such places have also been proven fermenting grounds of the type responsible for Mr.Townsend's legs...the gist of it is, ' charity begins at home', and if planners can allow mosques for whole neighborhoods, they should be able & willing to assist rather than hinder British servicemen who have paid such a price.

Double Zero

Would you have taken a similar viewpoint on Catholic Churches ( which also have signs directing people to them in Crawley) 30 years ago with reference to Northern Ireland ?

[newt]

I have just sent a firm but polite email to Pam Doodes the Leader of Wealden District Council. Address is on their website under Ask The Leader!!

[plans123]

Well, the council has posted a statement on their website..

Joe Townsend Planning Application Statement (http://www.wealden.gov.uk/Council/Media_Releases/2009/JoeTownsendPlanningStatement.aspx)

Too little too late I'm afraid......

[Double Zero]

Racedo,

Re. Catholics & N.Ireland, no I wouldn't object to signs, as all sides were at it, with our unfortunate servicemen stuck in the middle as usual.

Now instead of trying to be PC, let's get on with helping RM Townsend, shall we ? I take it you do actually support him, or if fighting the planners' corner I fear you're in the wrong place.

[anotherthing]

Double Zero

I have it in my mind from previous posts of yours that you have never served in Her Majesties Forces.

In fact I seem to recall a couple of weeks ago you stated that although you had not flown in the military, you knew people who had and therefore that gave you the knowledge to post certain points of view.

These are public forums, and no one can stop you from posting... but please refrain from posting bigoted, pompous statements unless you make it very clear you are not of the military when you do so.

Journos do lurk these forums - I'd hate to think that they might get the impression that your verbal diarrhoea was indicitave of the thoughts of the fine people who are serving today.

[Double Zero]

Anotherthing, I do not suffer from verbal diarrhoea just because you disagree with my views.

I am not part of the military per se, but spent 14 years WITH all 3 services, and indeed some of our allies, in aircraft and equipment development, including live trials.

I am still in regular contact with people doing that, and with people who have relatives in Afghanistan; sending out parcels to try and improve their lot is also true, not diarrhoea.

As far as certain segments of society are concerned I am stating my views based on direct experience, and there is a direct correlation re.planning rulings and actual results.

If they don't suit your PC agenda then tough, say so by all means but don't bother stooping to insults - I haven't replied in kind to you, have I?
--------------

Now, as far as I recall, there's a chap by the name of Joe Townsend who could do with solid support.

I have just found that the Wealden P.R. address one is directed to will not take any messages without a password - presumably they can only mail each other saying how wonderful they are.

Feedback not wanted - funny, that.

[Seaking93]

Gentlemen of the forum, my youngest son was with Joe on the day he was injured, he was actually following Joe as they moved forward, he will be going to see Joe tomorrow and I will make sure Joe is made aware of this thread and the support he is receiving from one and all.

[EdSett100]

Are the proposd plans available on the web?

[taxydual]

Look at post 16 Edsett, they are all available for perusal.

[StopStart]

Have I stumbled about the Daily Mail website by accident? I believe the phrase on ARRSE is "all aboard the outrage bus!"

:hmm:

[taxydual]

To my fellow PPRuners.

I too, am saddened by the actions of Wealden Council, and hope a re-consideration can be brokered and a solution resolved.

However, I have this awful feeling of 'Mob Rule' and 'Racism' has crept into this thread.

My feelings are my own, and are gained from weighing up facts and opinions. I think long and hard before picking up the 'cudgel'.

The vast majority of us are civilised and democratic individuals. Together, we can make a significant pressure group.

Let us not turn into a 'baying crowd'.

As to those who see The Sun newspaper as a standard bearer, look to their website to view the story as they 'present' it. Furthermore, look to comment on the story.

You are presented with a small questionaire.

Basically,

Where are you from? (Town/Place)
Which Country do you live in? (Country)
Which Football Team do you support? !!!!!!!!!!!What!!!!!!!!!!!!

Only then are you allowed to 'comment'.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and this a serious Newspaper!!!!!!!

[GreenKnight121]

"Alternatively there is the possibility to convert an existing storage building at the rear of the existing dwelling to provide the required independent accommodation.


Meaning... "stick the crippled sod in a shed where we don't have to notice him".


They deserve more than a verbal beating.

Sgt, USMC 1981-1989.

[Training Risky]

Double Zero - you crack on.

To all others bemoaning the use of "slanderous and racist terms"...get your priorities in order and check your definitions. Last time I checked, the qualifying criteria for being a 'gypsy'/traveller, Muslim, Catholic, etc, etc had nothing to do with belonging to any specified racial grouping. After all, if I so wanted I could complete the shahada 3 times in front of two male muslims and, hey presto. ALL special treatment for ALL ethnic groups, BOTH sexes and ALL religions should have been done away with a long time ago IMHO.

Stop wringing your collective hands over perceived racism and do something useful...like posting on an internet forum (who says a little self-deprecating humour can't be fun?)

A massive campaign on arrse definitely contributed to the Headley Court planning application v Mole Valley....so maybe they should run another?

Anyway, back to the grindstone...

[Doctor Cruces]

Totally agree with you Training Risky. All special treatment for minority groups/races etc should have been done away with years ago and the PC brigade hung from the highest lamp post as yardarms are in short supply. Affirmative action sucks. From a purely devils advocate point of view shouldn't this also apply in this case then?

Doc C

[gar170]

I honestly can not see how this could be deemed intrusive if their were no objections from the neighbourhood i would feel different.
the details with plans are here.

http://www.planning.wealden.gov.uk/aspxpages/DocumentList.aspx?CaseNo=WD/2008/2516/F&ShowInd=N&AppRef=WD/2008/2516&Add=LAND%20TO%20REAR%20OF%20LITTLE%20SUMMIT,%20HANKHAM%20HAL L%20ROAD,%20WESTHAM,%20NR.%20PEVENSEY,%20BN24%205AG.

And as for so called travellers then maybe it would pay to get some of these people on board as believe me if you want to take on an flaunt planning rules there are nobody better.As planning rules and regs certainly don't apply to them.And yes i am talking from experience Traveller buys agri land waits for Easter bank Holiday hardcores field puts up fence move in caravans, Council returns to work and cant be bothered to take on the expense to move and grants TEMP Permission for nine caravans travellers now hard cores the rest of the field.

[Double Zero]

Training Risky,

Thanks.

Gar 170 be careful you don't run into people who I'm sure would love having a 'gypsy' camp install themselves next door to them.:rolleyes:

I was going to offer them to come for a drive with me ( their car, not mine ) and try to enter such a place and see how they got on asking questions - as we say, we both have direct experience.

Let that be the end of the slagging DZ / whoever PC stuff, and let's get on with helping RM Townsend !!!

Maybe we are looking at this the wrong way, if you can't beat them, join them; how about either tarmacing an area in the proposed site and putting a large user-friendly 'mobile home' there - seems OK for some as previously mentioned - or if RM Townsends' family felt like it, get on with building and let's see who has the balls to face the nation and order it down !

It seems a decent looking proposal aesthetically, and the ace is that no neighbours have complained - an even better case than Headley Court...

I'd be happy to help out for free where possible, though I am no builder.

BTW I don't read the Sun, so have no idea what they're saying - but if it's helpful to this cause then great, and let's get other broadsheets & media involved - I'm sure they'd feel the same way.

[BEagle]

Neither the neighbours nor the Parish Council have stated any objections....

I agree, it looks like a very reasonable structure.

[taxydual]

Quote
A massive campaign on arrse definitely contributed to the Headley Court planning application v Mole Valley....so maybe they should run another?
Unquote

Having read the thread on AARSE, I think that even they are calling off the attack dogs.

Wait Out

Common sense, and patience, may still win the day.

[Double Zero]

I suspect no common sense is involved, except certain councillors' sense of survival !

I truly hope you're right, not holding my breath.

Plan B & the rest of the alphabet remain available as options.

[cazatou]

I would suggest an appeal against the refusal which would be heard by an Independent Adjudicator.

Where I lived in UK in the 90's there was one individual who appealed twice against planning refusals on a particular plot of land and won both times - with costs against the County Council.

[Double Zero]

We're already petitioning the government, and letting Wealden council know what we think - and I presume Joe Townsend is appealing against the crass decision ( never assume anything - is he ? ) so who's this independent adjudicator then ?

[thegypsy]

I suppose he means appealing to the Planning Inspectorate who are independent but of course each individual inspector can only look at the planning regulations and apply them as he/she thinks fits the case.Whether they are allowed to take this person's personal circumstances into account I am not sure about.

If they appeal they have three choices.

Written Representation

Informal Hearing

Public Inquiry

With a PI you can employ a planning barrister and Wealden Council will have to as well which will cost a fortune and costs can also be awarded against the loser so not a road to go down lightly.


PS

I think it would be better to re apply with a small change in the details and then either Wealden Council planners can save face and approve it or if not then the Councillors can get the planners off the hook by over ruling a refusal by insisting it goes to committee. I do not think both would dare refuse now in view of all the publicity

[jetsfather]

I had the misfortune of working with this woman. So I'm not surprised. A worst egotistical megalomaniac I've still to encounter. By the way: Her maiden name is Dashwood (Barbara not Barby), 'Hall' is the name of her ex-husband. So even her name is bull****!

[BEagle]

E-mail received this afternoon:

This Council has received an unprecedented number of enquiries regarding the planning application for Royal Marine Joe Townsend. We appreciate their concerns in what is a highly emotive issue and we are doing our best to reply to everyone.

We think it is important that everyone who knows about Joe's case fully understands both the reason for this Council's decision on January 8 and the current situation. Whilst this Council is fully committed to providing help and assistance to representatives of all our armed forces who have been injured in the service of this Country, we also have a duty to balance any proposals for new development with the strongly held wishes of the community in Wealden to protect our rural environment.

The Council has made it clear throughout that they are prepared to negotiate with Joe and his family to secure independent local accommodation for Joe. We have suggested a number of alternative proposals which we are discussing with the planning agent and family representatives.

All staff and councillors fully support the need to find a solution to Joe's housing needs. We remain committed to working with the family to help find a satisfactory outcome.

Wealden District Council

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/nw969/Internet/zxzxz.jpg

'....strongly held wishes of the community in Wealden to protect our rural environment...', eh?

Yet neither the local community nor the parish council had any objections to the proposal.

[pr00ne]

"Yet neither the local community nor the parish council had any objections to the proposal.|

Which, given sufficient evidence to support such a claim, would be excellent grounds for a very strong appeal against the decision, which in turn would be almost impossible to resist, ESPECIALLY with national media interest.

[BEagle]

As can be noted from Wealden District Council's applications online - Documents list (http://www.planning.wealden.gov.uk/aspxpages/DocumentList.aspx?CaseNo=WD/2008/2516/F&ShowInd=N&AppRef=WD/2008/2516&Add=LAND%20TO%20REAR%20OF%20LITTLE%20SUMMIT,%20HANKHAM%20HAL L%20ROAD,%20WESTHAM,%20NR.%20PEVENSEY,%20BN24%205AG)

In 00708087.PDF
Westham Parish Council: We have no objections to this application

In 00709748[1].PDF
Technical Services: No objection

In 00713372.PDF
On behalf of the Highway Authority: I do not wish to restrict grant of consent subject to the observations below (which concerned visibility standards to the south east of the existing access and recommended some foliage trimming to improve them).

Finally, from the Planning Committee's meeting notes in 00710869.PDF: At the time of writing the report no letters had been received. Any reports received will be reported verbally at the Planning Committee meeting

[alwayslookingup]

So, it took until Post 50 for someone to acknowledge what I'd said in Post 4, that the course of action now for the applicants is an appeal to the planning inspectorate.

The Council's involvement with the matter is finished, they have made their decision. The only way they can become involved again is if there is a re-application.

I suppose I could have declared an interest in being an elected Councillor, (albeit north of the border)with a reasonable experience of the planning system, but that would have spoiled all the fun. In any case, bearing in mind some of the earlier posts here, would anyone have listened?

Out.

[gar170]

Watched Noel's HQ on Sky one tonite Noel Edmund's has taken on Joe's case with a scathing attack on the council and their press officer if you get a chance to See the repeat it is worth a watch.
Noel's HQ: Get Hero Joe his Bungalow! - Sky1 (http://sky1.sky.com/noels-hq-get-hero-joe-his-bungalow)

[racedo]

Applicants always have a second bite at the cherry as was outlined to me by a planning officer a year ago and its at no cost. This is standard with English planning laws apparently.

It may involve making a small change as suggested by the planners and then gets reconsidered.

Given the situation a resubmisson is best option as allows council a way out stating that a change was needed.

They don't deserve it but better a way out for all that going to HM Planning Inspectorate.

[BEagle]

The link on the Sky 1 website stated that the petition contained 'over 4000' signatures.

This morning, the figure is 6998.

I think that rather shows the strength of public feeling on this issue.

[gar170]

What i did not say earlier was that Noels Edmund's got a support from He Tory leader and also Lib Dem's he also read out a statement from the PM in support for Joe' his plans case and stated that he hoped the the planners will now see that it is only right to approve his plans.

I wish i could find Noel's outburst and down load it.

[muppetofthenorth]

BBC NEWS | England | Sussex | PM orders rethink on soldier home (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/sussex/7877777.stm)

Has to be good news, surely?

[cazatou]

Not sure the Council has got the message yet.

Downing Street press release states:-

"It is unacceptable that he is being stopped from having the home of his choice"

Council press release states:-

"We are optimistic of finding an appropriate solution"

They do not appear to be singing from the same hymnsheet as 10 Downing Street.

[Chugalug2]

Now that the Great Leader, as opposed to the Dear Leader, has put his clunking fist behind this, I feel confident that after a full evaluation of the unique circumstances appertaining to this case...Wealdon District Council, 180, 180, GO!
Meanwhile add to their discomfort by adding your name to:
Petition to: overturn the decision by Wealden District Council to refuse planning permission for a purpose built home for Marine Joe Townsend, who lost both legs in Afghanistan. | Number10.gov.uk (http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/Mne-Townsend/)

[thegypsy]

cazatou

you do not seem to understand planning regulations. The one eyed scottish idiot is trying to make political capital out of this and curry favour yet this government decides planning policy and there are no exceptions made for being one eyed or having no legs as far as planning is concerned. The current application as has been said is out of Wealden Council's control.

The Councillors could have over ruled the planning officer at the committee meeting but chose not to do so.


When it comes to looking after their own Councillors on the DCS planning committeee have gone against the recommendation of the planning officers.

Look at WD/2008/1809 The Cart Barn owned by a Wealden Councillor. This went to committee with a requirement for a S106 non severance planning obligation but Councillors went against the planning officers. Why??????????

[BEagle]

thegypsy, in a thread concerning the welfare of a disabled Royal Marine, I consider your insulting reference to the PM's disability to be very much out of order.

I am by no means a supporter of Brown, but to make mock of his personal disability is utterly unacceptable, to my mind. As was Jeremy Clarkson's; for someone who does so much for Help for Heroes, his comment was outrageous. But he has at least offered some apology.

Please consider editing your post.

By the way, the number of people who have signed the petition now stands at nearly 9500.....:ok:!

[NutLoose]

Seems to be gathering speed, see

Message boards (http://boards.msn.com/UKNewsboards/thread.aspx?ThreadID=921771)

What really peeves me is a council is a body elected by us to serve the people that employ them, NOT the other way round.


Its ok saying nail it on the house, but that does not give independance and what happens when the Grandparents go on to a better place free from Government intervention.

[Double Zero]

Beagle,

maybe you're being a bit hard; I think 'thegypsy' is referring to myopic government talk rather than any persons' disability. ( no fan of Bown either, but reckon all politicians and heads of forces much the same )...

[BEagle]

Myopia and monocular vision are hardly synonymous, Double Zero.

Making light of any disability is reprehensible.

Out.

[thegypsy]

NutLoose

You appear to be another person who does not understand that Planning Officers are Council Employees and are NOT elected but are there to enforce planning regulations set by Government.

A petition will serve no purpose.


Many years ago I got outline planning permission for a house in my garden and the Parish Council and others all got a petition against it after planning permission had been passed but it was all a complete waste of time and too late as the decision had been made and had already been granted. It would have cost the Council dear to abrogate it.

[DX Wombat]

Good to see various MPs, including the PM, doing the right thing. Looks as if their tactics may have worked (http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090208/tuk-disabled-soldier-s-home-approved-6323e80.html). :ok:

[NutLoose]

Yes...Disabled soldier's home approved - , - Latest news & weather forecasts - MSN News UK (http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/article.aspx?cp-documentid=13892958)

[racedo]

Sounds like decision was already made so bandwagon got jumped on.

Or am I just a cybic ?:hmm:

[fallmonk]

Bloody disgarce it had to get to that stage BUT am glad its came good at last !
Not many times i can say it but well done the PM and the opisition leader for there phone calls (leaning on) to the councilers :ok:

[Al R]

I accept, to an extent, the point made in the previous thread about rules being rules.. but they're also there to be applied with common sense and compassion, and in this instance.. that just wasn't done. The Council's thinking that the work would be 'intrusive' simply defies belief. The ultimate example perhaps, of local nomenklatura being out of touch.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/sussex/7878329.stm

If you're reading this Joe, you probably 'just' think you were unlucky enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time but we and your council owe you far more than just bricks and mortar. Good luck in your new home.

[dakkg651]

Just listening to Jeremy Vine show.

Sounds like Noel Edmunds has beaten the drum for Joe big time.

Well done that man.

[Al R]

Whatever you think about him, hats off to Noel Edmunds for getting stuck in (although you have to >> to 5'30" to watch him get a real head of steam up).

YouTube - Joe Townsend Noels HQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4V0dmQ21FvA)

[cazatou]

thegypsy

Perhaps you may wish to consider an apology.

I will not, however, be holding my breath.

:=

[airborne_artist]

And some more positive news:

Soldier becomes first amputee to guard Queen - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/onthefrontline/4566359/Soldier-becomes-first-amputee-to-guard-Queen.html)

[PPRuNe Pop]

the gypsy

The petition will make no difference!

Where were you when the one that AARSE and PPRuNe worked on when the Dorking/Ashtead fiasco for SSAFA to buy a £1m house went awry?

It worked then and it would work now. Hundreds and hundreds of e-mails and letters have gone in to Wealden Council and they must now realise what the minority of objecting councillors have done.

Anyway, the fat lady seems not to have quite sung yet. But watch out if they renege on their utterings today!

This will not be the last time that the voice of the forces and ex forces are heard, and red faces are made where the action is most needed.

[BEagle]

12105 people have now signed the petition....

Latest from the Wealden District Council website:


9 February 2009

Joe Townsend Planning Application Statement

We have always recognised the huge sacrifice that Joe has made and have been wholly committed to working with Joe, his family and their planning agent to ensure that he gets the home he needs and deserves.

Immediately following the planning decision, we approached Joe's Grandfather and wish to work with him to reach a solution which is acceptable to everyone. We have agreed with the family that we will meet at their earliest convenience and that meeting will take place this week.

"With a successful outcome from that meeting, we will do everything possible to make sure his application is determined without delay, " said Councillor Roy Galley, Cabinet member for Strategic Planning & Housing Delivery.

"Working within legal timescales, this could mean a decision in principle as early as the end of next week.

"Whilst our immediate priority is resolving this issue for Joe, we are also deeply concerned that there is no specific Government planning guidance in the matter of special arrangements for injured servicemen," he added.

" We will therefore be urging the Prime Minister to reduce the chances of any other council being caught in a situation where there is a heart-rending pressure created by a badly-injured service man or woman needing special accommodation in an area where planning policy directs it to be inappropriate."
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/nw969/Internet/zxzxz.jpg

:hmm:

The Fat Lady* has yet to sing........




*This is not a slanderous reference to any particular councillor!

[racedo]

The Fat Lady* has yet to sing........




*This is not a slanderous reference to any particular councillor!

Yeah we understand:ok:

Any connection to someone living or braindead is entirely deliberate.

[BEagle]

Petition signatures now stand at 13308......:ok:

Actually make that 13341 - another 33 were added whilst I was typing this...

[BEagle]

14126 people have now signed the petition....

Latest from the Wealden District Council website:
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/nw969/Internet/zxzxz.jpg

10 February 2009

Joe Townsend Planning Application Statement

This joint statement is issued by Mr David Carter and Wealden District Council in relation to the planning application for a bungalow for Marine Joe Townsend.

A scheme has now been agreed in principle which planning officers consider is supportable.

Mr Carter who is Joe's grandfather will now submit a new application. Mr Carter said "We have had a fruitful discussion and I am optimistic that the scheme will meet Joe's needs and will receive a fair hearing. I am grateful to the Council for being open to a new approach".

Councillor Pam Doodes, Leader of Wealden District Council said "We have been anxious to resolve this difficult issue from the start and are glad that a solution has been identified. However, this case has raised a number of deep concerns over national policy and I shall be writing to the Prime Minister urging him to issue further Government guidance on the provision that local authorities make for servicemen and women disabled in the service of their country".

[PPRuNe Pop]

However, this case has raised a number of deep concerns over national policy and I shall be writing to the Prime Minister urging him to issue further Government guidance on the provision that local authorities make for servicemen and women disabled in the service of their country".

Well now it is over to the Brown jobbers then. They can hardly avoid making urgent new legislation that allows for the lads to have an assured and comfortable future.

Gordo! Over to you.

[BEagle]

PP, El Gordo has already released a statement effectively telling Wealden District Council to think again:

"The whole country owes Joe huge gratitude for the sacrifice he's made for our country. It's unacceptable that he is being stopped from having the home of his choice. Wealden District Council must do the right thing immediately and reconsider this case."

However, I smell politics in the statement from the Leader of the Tory-run Wealden District Council. It reads as though they're trying make some political capital through attempting to blame the government's planning policies for tying their hands over the issue - but it was the District Council themselves who wrote:

'It was not considered that the specific needs of the applicant or their family constitute an overriding justification for a new dwelling in this location as an exception to the usual countryside restraint policies'

which implies that they do have some discretion in such matters, but chose not to apply it in Joe's case.

Petition now stands at 14727 signatures.

[PPRuNe Pop]

I confess I missed that second quote BEags and I think you may well be right.

However, one councillor stated that he is "determined" to see this application through "by the end of this week" so maybe there is light.

[thegypsy]

Oh dear. Both BEagle and PPrune Pop show a certain ignorance of planning matters.

Yes Wealden District Council is a majority Conservative Council, however if you look at the agenda of the planning meeting where this application went to committee with a planning officer's recommendation for refusal the wording and report is ALL made by planning officers who are paid employees. That includes the second quote. They are there to implement Government planning policy and as WDC have rightly pointed out if Brown wants to get into the act he should change planning policy to allow those who have been wounded serving their country to get around current planning restrictions.

Councillors are NOT allowed to interfere and try and influence planning officers in coming to their decisions. If they do not like the decision a planning officer is going to make then any district councillor can insist it goes to Committee where they can try and get other councillors to change a recommendation whether for a refusal or for granting.

I refer you to my post#50 of the 1st Feb. Long before any petitions were mooted and well before Brown tried to make political capital out of this I said that because of the publicity, thanks to the Sun and their readers and perhaps by the likes even of BEagle :D and others writing direct to Wealden Council, that the way forward was for a new application to be made with a few changes to allow all to save face and approve a new application and clearly that is EXACTLY what is now happening.

[cockney steve]

Just to play devil's advocate......
A rich person has a lump of Green belt land,for which he requires building consent.
He "buys" the services of a disabled ex-forces member,to front an application.......the planners are unlikely to be able to make building conditional on the applicant's lifetime sole occupancy...even if they tried, what if constant attendance were needed? demolish it?-don't think so!....what when he / she dies? I, personally feel that an isolated pitch on the edge of the village is NOT the best site for Joe to reside (unless he marries/his parents succed his grandparents in occupancyof the main bungalow.....that's what he and his family want,he should get it.

as pointed out, they DO have discretionary powers....just some local jobsworth thought they'd flex their muscles (hope they are top of redundancy list)...shame the councillors didn't point out to Jobsworth that they were a PUBLIC SERVANT and should act accordingly. laws have exceptions, Brown is head of Gov't therefore head of lawmaking (presumably next to the Sovereign)
therefore he has the authority to grant an exception. matter COULD have been referred to, and voted by Parliament....less than 5 minutes to show our armed forces that their sacrifices ARE respected.

[Chugalug2]

..new application to be made with a few changes to allow all to save face..

Save face with whom, gypsy, themselves? Perhaps. With the rest of the world? Unlikely I suspect. The image left is one of purse-lipped apparatchiks strenuously enforcing the regulations/law/policy/whatever, no matter what. When it results in the spontaneous outrage of the "Great British People" they'd got it wrong from the start. No face saving is possible, I'm afraid. They'll just have to fall back on the age old cliches, such as; "I was merely carrying out orders, that's my job!" As PPRuNe Pop has already pointed out, so did the Nimbys of Ashtead and their councillors. Think they saved face?

[racedo]

Cockney Steve

Good post because you and I both know that if law changed it would be abused very quickly.

Council should have used its discretion, they didn't and getting their A5535 handed to them on a plate is just desserts.

If you make exceptions then next it would be poor photogenic unfortunate child with tears in eyes who falls just outside this criteria and then something else. Law changes in haste are generally bad laws.

Take emotion out of this and let it be decided on its merits and there was always option of appeal to Secretary of State if amended planning application was turned down a second time. Perhaps council should have referred it earlier so getting away from the emotional hostility.

[PPRuNe Pop]

Were they not supposed to announce the decision today?

[PPRuNe Pop]

This was received this p.m.

This Council has received an unprecedented number of enquiries regarding the planning application for Royal Marine Joe Townsend. We are doing our best to reply to everyone.
The original proposal for the erection of a new bungalow was out side of the development boundary and would have been intrusive and be in direct conflict with existing policies to restrain building in rural areas.
Whilst this Council is fully committed to providing help and assistance to representatives of all our armed forces who have been injured in the service of this Country, we also have a duty to balance any proposals for new development with the strongly held wishes of the community in Wealden to protect our rural environment.
Our elected councillors and officers have made it clear throughout that they were prepared to discuss options with the applicants to secure independent local accommodation for Joe. This fact has not always been widely reported. A meeting was arranged for 10 February.
After that meeting, a joint statement was issued by Mr David Carter, the applicant, and Wealden District Council in relation to the planning application for a bungalow for Marine Joe Townsend.
"A scheme has now been agreed in principle which planning officers consider is supportable.
Mr Carter, who is Joe's grandfather, will now submit a new application. Mr Carter said "We have had a fruitful discussion and I am optimistic that the scheme will meet Joe's needs and will receive a fair hearing. I am grateful to the Council for being open to a new approach".
Councillor Pam Doodes, Leader of Wealden District Council said "We have been anxious to resolve this difficult issue from the start and are glad that a solution has been identified."
This case has raised a number of deep concerns over national policy. The Leader of the Council has written to the Prime Minister urging him to issue further Government guidance on the provision that local authorities make for servicemen and women disabled in the service of their country.
We are expecting to receive the necessary application as soon as it has been prepared by Mr Carter's agent, and we will be doing everything we can to give full consideration to the proposals as early as possible.

[gar170]

If you did not see Noel Edmunds on sat.

YouTube - Joe Townsend Noels HQ 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4slJXAfecs)

At last a good end.

[BEagle]

The last news release on Wealden District Council's website about Joe's application was dated 10 Feb 2009 and is the same as I posted on 101609Feb2009.

Currently waiting for Yooftube to download the videoclip - it's running at a glacial speed on so-called 'Broadband' at the moment.

Has there been any official announcement?

[BEagle]

From the BBC:

An injured marine fighting to build a specially-designed bungalow has been inundated by tradesmen offering to work for free, says his family.

Joe Townsend, 20, who lost his legs in Afghanistan, wants to build the house on land in East Sussex owned by his grandfather David Carter.

Wealden District Council rejected the proposals, calling them "intrusive" but will consider revised plans next month.

Mr Carter, 70, said his grandson was over the moon with the offers.

Approval expected

The council's planning committee voted by a slim majority to reject the planned building, incorporating a bathroom and carers' room, on land at his grandparents' home in Hankham Hall Road in Pevensey, near Eastbourne.

Gordon Brown intervened after the case was taken up by the Noel's HQ programme on Sky1, telling the show that the council "must do the right thing immediately and reconsider this case".

The Tory-controlled council said it had originally been willing to discuss a revised proposal.

A new application has been submitted and is expected to be formally approved at a planning committee meeting next month, said Mr Townsend's grandfather.

Mr Carter said: "So many people have come forward offering their help. We have got a whole load of tradesmen offering to work for free on it, including plasterers, tilers and builders. All of them have come forward wanting to do their bit."

Mr Carter said his grandson was "over the moon" by the public reaction, adding: "He is already on the internet looking for tiles and other things to go in the home. It's keeping him going."

Mr Townsend, who lost one leg completely and one below the knee when he stepped on a landmine has had several operations and rehabilitation at Headley Court in Surrey.

[thegypsy]

A revised planning application WD/2009/0382 has been recommended for approval by the planning officers and will be put to the Councillors at the DCS committee on the 5th March where no doubt it will be rubber stamped for approval.Whilst any member of the public can attend this meeting I do not think it necessary for BEagle to attend:D

There will be a S106 non severance planning obligation attached so that this new property remains as "ancillary" to the main one. This could cause problems in years to come.

PS I will go to the meeting in Hailsham and report back that day to confirm that planning has been approved which I am sure will be the case. It starts at 10am.

[thegypsy]

I have just returned from the DCS planning committee meeting in Hailsham where this revised application was approved. This was brought to committee before the legal 28 day consultation period has expired so in theory if a huge number of objections suddenly appeared it would have to go back to committee but that is highly unlikely given the public outcry.

[PPRuNe Pop]

Thank you for that, and for taking the time to attend the meeting. Doing that gives it a credence it would otherwise not have had - if you see what I mean.

Go for it Grandad and Joe - loadsa people ready to help big time.

Good luck and very best wishes.

[PPRuNe Pop]

Although riding on the back of...................!!!

I got this today, as many thousands would have done, which gives this sorry tale a happy ending. A tale that should never have gone to a fight. As many others have.

Mne-Townsend - epetition response | Number10.gov.uk (http://www.number10.gov.uk/Page21490)

PPRuNe wishes Joe Townsend a very comfortable, full and happy life. God bless.

[Cornerstone958]

I should thimk so to!
CS:ok: