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Steamhead
29th Jan 2009, 20:31
Average speed camera (50 limit) have been put up on the A127. Yesterday some oik came past me at well over 70 braked hard down to 50 as he passed the camera pole and then accelerated back up to 70+. Are there people out there that are so thick that they do not understand average? http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/smilies2/eusa_wall.gif

mocoman
29th Jan 2009, 20:35
Short answer?

Yes!

:ugh:

mr. small fry
29th Jan 2009, 20:36
I was informed by a taxi driver that a lane change after passing the fist camera, and before the last camera was sufficient. I have not yet been brave enough to try it.

Blues&twos
29th Jan 2009, 20:59
a lane change after passing the fist camera, and before the last camera was sufficient. I have not yet been brave enough to try it.

But why bother?

An average speed of less than 50 does fine for me!

ShyTorque
29th Jan 2009, 21:33
Try the M1 between Derby and Mansfield. 16 miles of average speed cameras in the 50 limit. So many cameras it's difficult to spot them all. Some go flying past at high speed them brake at the cameras, as Steamhead notes. Some forget the normal rules of motorway driving just because the speed limit is reduced and hog the centre or outside lanes at 43 to 45 mph, often refusing to move over. Some are possibly totally unaware that someone behind them might be trying to make legal progress at the posted limit because they don't use their mirrors. Some obviously don't realise that most car speedometers over-read and want to play traffic policeman.....

I put an HGV between my registration plate and every other cameras if I can. Not because I speed, because I don't, but just for the hell of it. I'm not certain that a lane change will defeat the logic of the most modern cameras, btw.

Overdrive
29th Jan 2009, 23:58
More clamps on freedom and individual productivity. It makes more jobs. I don't remember the population ever being asked if we wanted to travel around at silly slow rates of progress.

It started in the little streets, then main roads. The motorway network fast being ruined now. Hell they're even building new roads with dangerous blackspots, needing cameras on them and soporific limits to keep us all "safe" :ugh:

chiglet
30th Jan 2009, 00:51
Yes, like the M60 at Bredbury...50 [average] limit :mad:...all because an articulated lorry "slightly" missed the bend, and crumpled their nice stone wall.....:ugh:

TBirdFrank
30th Jan 2009, 01:15
Gotta say though - 60 to 65 about does it round the steepest part of the curve, unless you like scuffing your door handles.

Best this week was being overtaken into a right hander in the 30 limit coming out of Gee Cross on the A560 - must have had a death wish!

Chrisbowe82
30th Jan 2009, 11:00
chigletYes, like the M60 at Bredbury...50 [average] limit http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/censored.gif...all because an articulated lorry "slightly" missed the bend, and crumpled their nice stone wall.....:ugh: Have you noticed how many drivers in the outside lane don't bother to even slow down for that section? Makes me wonder how many get points and a fine.

It's not the hardest thing in the world to spot that bend and if in a wagon think "hmm, might just have to back off a bit for that one" Wouldn't the lorry have been limited to around that speed anyway? not keen on joining the motorway on the outside lane every morning on that junction either, especially when the guy in front is joining at 40mph...in the right hand lane :uhoh:

sisemen
30th Jan 2009, 11:22
c'mon. The western world has got to get out of this economic mess somehow. And this saves them from thinking up some new scam to part you from your hard earned. It's certainly bugger all to do with "speeding" or "safety on the roads".

Tester_76
30th Jan 2009, 12:33
Apparently the camera only actually covers one lane, so a lane change might work. The only problem is working out which lane it is actually covering...:}

MostlyModerate
30th Jan 2009, 12:45
Using the hide-behind-an-HGV technique, what fun to be seen entering the zone, but never emerging. Or leaving a zone that you have apparently never entered.
Does the software allow for this, or does the system spend the next x months wondering where the hell you've gone or where the hell you came from ?
And is not being seen an offence ? Will the postman be calling ?


p.s. just thought - are those cameras bi-directional ? Must check.

angels
30th Jan 2009, 13:01
As I've always said in these sort of threads, if you don't do more than the speed limit then you don't get a letter.

That said, driving back from Rochester to London on a virtually empty stretch of the M2 the other week (11 at night) it was irksome to have to slow down to 50 (checked by average speed cameras) for no apparent reason. No road works, no coning, no traffic/people loitering on the hard shoulder.

After a couple of miles of me trundling along at 50 in the inside lane I thought 'sod this' and adoped lane changing mode at 70/75.

I, too, adopt the HGV trick just for the fun of it on the A2.

Also, I enjoy seeing the cretins slam on the anchors, not for the danger of their actions, but the thought of their faces when the letter arrives.

Captain Stable
30th Jan 2009, 13:04
Gotta love motorbikes - avoids all the hassle! :ok:

Effluent Man
30th Jan 2009, 13:52
I did a variation of the HGV trick in the South of France. I was radared near Salon De Provence on a long straight stretch of N road.With an HGV a few hundred meters ahead I closed the gap.When I saw the second Gendarme ready to step into the road I began my overtake,keeping to the blind side of the truck until I had passed him.They had a motor bike for pursuit but my guess was that it was close to lunchtime so they didn't bother.

candoo
30th Jan 2009, 15:58
Just been through that M1 stretch set cruise control to 53, inside lane where possible.

A lot of cars screamed past and slammed on the anchors at the cameras :ugh:

Worst of all though on my forays into the outside lane with two trucks inside it is a little nerve racking keeping your line - the lanes just ain't wide enough and some trucks with funny number plates have a tendency to wander!

Krystal n chips
30th Jan 2009, 16:32
chiglet / Chrisbowe82.....

Alas, twas not just an artic..or two....whose trajectory carried straight on rather than follow the bend to the right...there were several fatalities as well prompting a local council "person" on a personal crusade as I recall....the minor detail of poor driving and excessive speed being contributory factors thus being conveniently overlooked....the RATHER LARGE 50 SIGN being difficult to see I assume,,:rolleyes:...and lo and behold, wi all due pomp an ceremony, it were proudly announced that t'specs cameras were first in't North West in the media...the only thing missing was a pose wi bowler 'at an fob watch on top of t' gantry...:rolleyes:

Sadly, no mention was made of the anti-clockwise debacle in which the slip road from the roundabout feeds "conveniently" into the third lane.....a true masterclass of f$%wit road designers world class attempt at stupidity and one which must surely have won a global award....nothing quite like seeing 40tonnes of artic doing his level best to try and comply with the law, but being stuck through no fault of his own in the third lane....:mad: When the East section of the M60 was completed, minus a drainage system that is, it was hailed as the "missing link"......no more apt metaphor for the designers could be more fitting!.

anotherthing
30th Jan 2009, 16:51
I was informed that the lane changeing theory was not in fact true, especially with newer models of the average speed camera.

Having said that, the cameras on the M27 has just been removed upon the completion of over a year in situ - I travel it every day, and whenever the road was quiet and there were no workman or vehicles at the side of the road (the reason for the speed limit), I pushed up to an average of 65mph (didn't want to take the p!55) and never been done.

I would have quite happily argued my case in court bearing in mind the cameras are there primarily for the safety of the workforce... if that workforce is not present, visibility/weather is good and traffic is light, then game on...

helimutt
30th Jan 2009, 17:23
Ok, so why don't we see. How many people have been done, or even know of someone getting done for speeding through the 'average speed' zones? I get the feeling the cameras aren't even hooked up to anything. It's all a conspiracy to get us to slow down. Stick a few yellow lamposts up with camera looking things on top.
The british driving public are so gullible they'll think we're actually investing millions in technology to catch them on an average speed check.


Anyway, anyone know someone who's been done then?

ATNotts
30th Jan 2009, 18:19
I use that stretch every working day and set cruise control to around 55mph, which I reckon is about 50-52 really.

At that speed I wouldn't expect to be nicked, but I can't recall hearing or reading any publicity from the Notts Constabulary about how many hundreds, or thousands of drivers have actually been caught speeding and I can't believe they would miss such an opportunity to publicise the fact. There are certainly enough loonies running at 60mph plus to suggest they would bag a few.

Does anyone out there actually know whether the cameras are live? It'll make no difference to how fast I drive, because I want to live long enough to pick up my pension!!

ShyTorque
30th Jan 2009, 20:26
ATN, I would be wary and wouldn't personally take the risk - I'm certain I've seen those cameras being calibrated late at night by teams using marks on the road etc.

I checked my speedo against my satnav readout and drive on the limit where possible with an occasional speed increase to overtake the meandering muppets, of which there are plenty. After over a year this has saved me a ticket. Having said that, I'll no doubt get a brown envelope any day now :uhoh:

Nopax,thanx
30th Jan 2009, 21:14
Anyone know anyone who's been done?

Yes, my daughter last year on the A316 near Heathrow. Average speed cameras set up in the roadworks set at 30mph. She was caught at an average 41. The roadworks are still there, so you just have to grin and bear it.

Question; do they work at night?

mr fish
30th Jan 2009, 22:34
the trick is to drive so fast that the camera cannot track you.
i heard you need about 175mph to pull this off.
however, as i drive a FIESTA turbodiesel, its not a theory i can verify.
if anyone out there drives a 911 GT2 or similar, would they be so kind as to test this one out for the rest of us.:}

PAPI-74
30th Jan 2009, 22:42
I had a clean licence 2 years ago, then I started flying from LCY - M25 M11 A406.
Needless to say I now have 9 points and carry a bucket of sodium chlorate and sugar for the next bas#@*d camera that flashes.
They really are dangerous as Mondeo Man / White Van Man will just brake hard or as mentioned prior, lane hop in slow 50mph traffic to gain 3 mins on their trip.
Why???

The sodium thing was a joke by the way - I keep it in the shed.:E

silverhawk
30th Jan 2009, 23:04
After a post op vasectomy problem, (don't even ask) I raced through an average set of roadworks cameras set for 50mph at 99mph on the cruise control for about 10 miles at 2230 on the M6. NO LETTER or any other feedback

Since been told that average speed camera technology is digital which is inadmissable in court. I don't know but suspect that any convictions are by admissions by the accused (via letter)


BTW medical problem is now ok :ok:

eticket
30th Jan 2009, 23:36
In August I posted these results for one year of SPECS operation, (set @ 70mph), on the A14 between Cambridge and Huntingdon. But perhaps they might be useful in this discussion as well:

From the Cambridge Evening News. (http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/cn_news_home/DisplayArticle.asp?ID=338836)

After one year (June 2007 - May 2008):

Serious Crashes: 2 (07/08) 11 (06/07)
Deaths: 0 (07/08) 2 (06/07)
Crashes 66 (07/08) 83 (06/07)

Speeding Tickets & offences recorded:

91 in just one week of testing before it went live
31 in the whole year after it went live

(Yes 91 and 31)I am still surprised by how few tickets have been issued.

ShyTorque
30th Jan 2009, 23:36
After a post op vasectomy problem.......I raced through an average set of roadworks cameras set for 50mph at 99mph on the cruise control for about 10 miles

It takes big balls to do that...... hope they've gone down again... ;)

StaceyF
31st Jan 2009, 07:19
Question; do they work at night?

Oh yes, infra red capability.

And they cover more than one lane (the lane-swapping thing was true at their inception but is now an urban myth).

Scumbag O'Riley
31st Jan 2009, 08:22
I think it's to do with the 'type approval' of the cameras rather than the technical ability of the cameras. From what I understand, if you change lanes then the evidence should be inadmissible as the camera was never formally approved to work this way. These sort of 'loophole' arguments (where you invite the prosecution to properly prove their case using admissable evidence) tend to annoy the police, CPS and the magistrates though. They may just respond by increasing your fine.

StaceyF
31st Jan 2009, 12:21
I think it's to do with the 'type approval' of the cameras rather than the technical ability of the cameras. From what I understand, if you change lanes then the evidence should be inadmissible as the camera was never formally approved to work this way

Yeah I never fully understood where the loophole was.

If you have two cameras covering two lanes at point A and another two
cameras covering the same two lanes at point B four miles up the road and there's a 40mph limit in force, if the second set of cameras (either) detects that you arrive anything in under six minutes then it's 3 points and 60.

And because the cameras are a fixed distance apart, the exact average speed can be calculated to God-knows how many decimal places, which is why I understand that the leeway the authorities give motorists caught by SPECS units to be considerably less than those caught by fixed site Gatsos.

alwayzinit
31st Jan 2009, 12:32
So remind me..............

Why do we ever clean our cars?:ugh:

On a more useful note always always write a letter stating mitigating circumstances, asthma attack, bad case of trots etc. Worked in 3 out 3 tickets and so have no points:ok:

Alwayz

anotherthing
31st Jan 2009, 13:02
Oh yes, infra red capability.

I'm not so sure if all of these cameras work at night... there are some sets which are co-located with large sets of floodlights - I would be wary of those at night, but others... Surely a car, at night, with headlights on will obliterate the vision of any camera that does not have its own set of lights to counter the dazzle?

M.Mouse
31st Jan 2009, 13:09
If you want facts rather than rumour and guesswork all the information you will ever need can be found here:

PePiPoo (http://www.pepipoo.com)

Leezyjet
20th Feb 2009, 22:27
I regularly travel through the average speed camera's at 60+mph and have always used the lane changing method, and the hide behind a lorry/coach/van method and I've yet to receive a fine.

Either I've just been extremely lucky, or maybe it might just work !!.

:\

mocoman
21st Feb 2009, 01:21
LOTS of new Average speed/ANPR cameras being installed this last week on the M3 between J4 and J2. One every km or so in both directions. Judging by the speed at which the poles and cameras have been installed I would guess that they will be active in a month or two at most.

The question that springs to my mind is WHY; I can think of no reason why that stretch of motorway needs average speed cameras, it doesn't even have variable speed limit signs installed.

There must be some contractor somewhere who is rubbing their hands in glee at this spending splurdge by Surrey Heath BC; or maybe there is a nepotistic connection somewhere and it's all a fait accompli paid for by the taxpayer.

:ugh:

Overdrive
21st Feb 2009, 03:15
LOTS of new Average speed/ANPR cameras being installed this last week on the M3 between J4 and J2. One every km or so in both directions.




There must be some contractor somewhere who is rubbing their hands in glee at this spending splurdge by Surrey Heath BC;
....paid for by the taxpayer.



Given the state of things presently, this is quite frankly disgusting. I've seem a similar increase in activity in a few areas of the country lately. This oppressive, unnecessary crap costs a fortune, right when the country and many of its people are on their knees.

There's been no shortage of our money for this rubbish for the past decade, whilst there have been "shortages" for almost everything else. Banal signs every 50 yards, bumps, chicanes, red and yellow paint, traffic lights wherever they'll fit. God only knows how much has been spent, and for what?

Cameras, cameras, cameras. We are being (not so) slowly boiled alive. They should be torn down and shoved up politicians arses. Enough is enough.

Very noticeable too recently in areas around where I live, is the much increased presence of police on traffic duties, and they are pulling people left, right and centre. Something is going to have to give.

Is there anywhere else on the planet as obsessed with this as whoever is running Britain? It's like a damned proving ground. I'm driving down roads full of ignored cracks and potholes, with shiny new snooping installations costing thousands of pounds at the side of them. It's crazy.

Jofm5
21st Feb 2009, 04:48
There's been no shortage of our money for this rubbish for the past decade, whilst there have been "shortages" for almost everything else. Banal signs every 50 yards, bumps, chicanes, red and yellow paint, traffic lights wherever they'll fit. God only knows how much has been spent, and for what?



They had the head of the RAC on the news a few weeks back - he was saying it has now got to the point where there are so many signs that it is becoming a dangerous distraction has been complicit in many fatal road accidents.

With the M3 it gauls me that going south from the M25 they have had the temporary traffic lane layout for over a year - this has the average speed cameras too. What gauls me is this is just a trial of a road layout to see if it improves traffic - sure have the trial but why the speed restriction - all it does is bunch traffic up around that area.

hellsbrink
21st Feb 2009, 07:08
Ahh Jofm, you are missing their cunning plan.

People get caught speeding, more revenue for the government. People stuck in traffic queues, more fuel used, more renenue. Air pollution goes up, excuse for extra taxes on fuel and road tax because of "green issues", more revenue.

Goggsy Broon has to pay for his and his Politburo's inflated pensions somehow!!

mocoman
21st Feb 2009, 09:50
What gauls me is this is just a trial of a road layout to see if it improves traffic - sure have the trial but why the speed restriction - all it does is bunch traffic up around that area.

I actually approve of that particular junction layout; it DOES improve traffic flow from the M25 onto the M3 at peak times. Although, to my mind the trial has been proven a success long ago and should already be a permanent layout.

That said, the speed restriction that is in force is overly long and could easily be limited to the area around the junction up to the point at which the traffic merges AND should only applied during the evening rush.

It is frustrating and pointless imposing a 50 speed limit on a motorway when the area is not congested, as is the case for 20 hours per day on this stretch of road.

Jofm5
21st Feb 2009, 10:22
I actually approve of that particular junction layout; it DOES improve traffic flow from the M25 onto the M3 at peak times. Although, to my mind the trial has been proven a success long ago and should already be a permanent layout.



I dont object to the layout - that does not bother me, its just you come up against a wall of traffic moving slowly - then as soon as you eventually get to the end of the restriction it does start to space out again.

I think they would find if they scrapped the limit altogether that the congestion would be even better than it is - at 50mph everything bunches up (cause of the usual idiots riding just off the rear bumper) so there is no space for the joining traffic to slot into.

Mr Chips
21st Feb 2009, 10:22
Nopax

I live in the middle of the A316 roadworks, so I pass the camera and then turn off - so I tend to run at 60mph through, much to the disgust of those around me! I often wonder what the super speed computer must think when I turn up on the second camera a couple of days later!