Anybody intending to hourbuild at Chandler, AZ?

[Phantasm]

Hello chaps,

Here's a quick one then - if you don't plan on or have no involvement in hourbuilding in the States, then there is not much to be gained from reading this. On the other hand, if you are considering heading out to Chandler (or nearby, suggestions most welcome) mid-2009, then please do have a read.

What with one thing and another, I find myself in the position of requiring approximately one hundred hours of P1 time. As I shall be taking my CPL in Phoenix, and having heard 'mostly' good things, the provisional itinerary includes a month or so beforehand spent operating out of Chandler Municipal making lots of holes in the gin clear Arizona skies (and possibly beyond!).

Now, whilst I have no problems with travelling light and alone - it would be much more enjoyable should I have a companion to travel out and plan with, all the better if this person is also soon to take their CPL. As mentioned, I plan on one hundred hours over about a month, so somebody who is looking for a 'similar pace' would be a bonus!

Anybody interested please drop me a PM!

Over to you PPRuNe...

[Pelikanpete]

Can I offer some advice?

I've just got back from hour building with Chandler and found them to be excellent (great aircraft availability and top quality instructors). However, I did a similar amount of hour building but over two months and think that your time scale is quite ambitious and will make the experience a real drag (and likely a waste of much of the experience).

In your shoes but with the benefit of my hindsight I would take two months and make full use of the other more challenging aircraft types they operate (tail draggers and aerobatic) to really develop some handling skills (although it will mean doing about 15 hours dual to learn how to fly them). The Super Cubs and Great Lakes are real aeroplanes (and can be a handful for the uninitiated), they make the Warriors feel as easy as driving an underpowered car.

After 50 hours of P1 cross country in the PA28 you will be bored to tears and unchallenged even if you fly to LA, San Diego, Las Vegas, all over the mountains etc. Also Chandler Air Service have a great reputation all over the US for teaching people how to really fly the tail draggers and do aeros - increasingly becoming a lost art form - so don't waste the opportunity.

[Tootles the Taxi]

making lots of holes in the gin clear Arizona skies (and possibly beyond!).

Great preparation for a short CPL course! :ok:

Why not contact the FTO you plan to use for the CPL training & get some advice from an instructor as to how best to utilise the time?

[The Ginger Prince]

I recommend Falcon Field (FFZ). I was out in Phoenix in May last year and toured all of the regionals and found this one to my liking.
I would also recommend Arizona Aviation for all types of flying. Seemed the most approachable when I went round the schools and I stuck with them.

I agree that 100 hrs in one month is too optimistic. 2 months is more like it. Watch out for the turbulence too. I needed to get flying by 6am and down by 11am and then up again at 5pm and down by 7pm - unless you want to do some night flying.

I was doing a long nav about mid-day over Tucson and the turbulence was frankly terrifying. Mountain wave, thermals all that bad stuff - never been happier to be on the ground.

Did my taildragger out there - great fun and a great education too.

Wish I was back out there - loved the place.:ok:

[sapperkenno]

Phantasm, just out of interest... As you've heard "mostly" good things, can you enlighten us with the bad? Where are you going to do your CPL? What quals do you have at the moment?

I can certainly back up what Pelikanpete (How's it going Mr. H?) says, as he's taken the words right out of my mouth.

I tried getting 100hrs over 3 weeks in Nov '07, and although it may be possible, it certainly would be a drag. I think I only managed around 85 at the time...

If you've got your sh*t together and get straight on it, trekking across to CA and up to UT, and flying all day, every day, you'll most likely make the ton. If you don't already know, the summers here are bloody hot... Even upwards of 8000' you'll still be sweating your b*ll@cks off, and it's not a nice position to be in at the end of a long day, coming back from the North and having to worry about negotiating the PHX Class B, and get back into CHD when you'd rather be sitting in a bucket of ice with a cold beer by a pool somewhere instead of making "holes in the sky". The last thing you want is to make a hole in an aircraft, or a smoking one in the desert.

Chances are, that you'll need a coupe of days to find your feet first, get familiar with the Airspace, Charts, R/T, do a BFR and get checked out ("mountain check-out") before you can be let loose on your own. Unless you've flown here in the US before..?! Then it shouldn't be too big an issue.

Then it's just down to personal pride, and keeping your handling skills on the ball... It's not hard to become a Warrior ace after a week of back to back flights, but just sloppily flying around, un-coordinated, navigating purely by GPS, worrying only about hrs and letting your standards slip (what carb-heat?) would be a possible issue, especially if you're going onto the CPL afterwards and have to do the silly UK (Airliney ATPL type) things like FREDAI, BUMMPFITCH, HASELL checks and "cockpit flows" (instead of just flying the airplane properly and handling it well.) So I'm with "tootles" on the importance of not just turning avgas into noise and flying around staring at the Hobbs like a plonker.

As "Pete" says, you can always get in a Supercub, get your tailwheel endorsement and krank out the hours solo in that thing. It's hardly a comfortable tourer, but it'll work wonders for you as a proper pilot, if that's your kind of thing. I did time building in it prior to getting up to 250TT for the FAA Commercial. Simply put; It's A LOT more fun than a Warrior, may improve your piloting skills, cruises a little slower (85kts vs. 105 - hence more hours as it takes longer to go places!?) and you can buzz around with the windows and doors wide open.
It will all make sense if/when you start flying it!

The turbulence can be interesting compared to UK levels (especially in summer...) but isn't that much of an issue, just tighten your lap belt. :eek: Also a great opportunity to get some night hours, which not a lot of UK guys have more than 5 of prior to their first job. (Although you won't be allowed over the mountains, so plan on TUS a couple of times and the "Valley rally" around the local fields) You do have a UK night qualification..?

At least you've seen sense in coming to Arizona and not Florida, so good on ya. If I'm still around when you come over I'll happily split some flying with you, so feel free to PM me with dates etc.

[Phantasm]

Good evening,

Thank you so much for taking the time to provide such detailed responses everyone, much appreciated.

Pelikanpete - Of course, I suppose the governing factor in all this is not just my willingness to fly, but aircraft availability, which you say is good out at CHD. Having read the replies here, perhaps a ton of hours over one month is perhaps optimistic - I am an enthusiastic follower of Meteorology, and have therefore taken into consideration that flying a PA28 (or Cub come to that matter) at 2,000 agl over that part of the world could provide for terminally interesting experiences! And just to reiterate, my time out there will be mid-Summer, and with temperatures scratching onto 50C I can appreciate having to 'let down' for a few hours each day. And ultimately, a month extra in AZ can only be a good thing :ok:

Tootles - Thanks for the response - I'm trying to gather as much information as I can before I write off/call the FTO so I can build a comprehensive picture of what's going to happen before I head out there. If flying's taught me anything, it's that prior planning is essential to any endeavour in one's life.

TGP - I've made a note re turb, and steer clear of those mountain waves! I'm only assuming, but I guess with it being so dry out there, visible detection can be a problem? And thank you for the recommendations, I shall definitely look into them.

sapperkenno - Regarding what I've heard about the company, I had a grammar hickup - remove the apostrophes!
Thank you for your in depth reply - I'm just about to take my first phase of exams with Oxford - I am a modular student, 20 years old (do keep reading, I'm not a sheep I assure you!), having chosen to train with them as I live close geographically and have always been familiar with their course. I am a basic PPL holder with 120 hours, no mod cons on my licence as of yet, however I am as yet undecided as to whether I shall train for my night qualification in the UK or AZ. That is among the questions I shall be asking the FTO out there. I have 50 hours P1 time, hence my requirement for 100 hours to bring me into the 'training envelope' for the CPL. I'm going to put my training on standby after the CPL, as I have a few options here in the UK involving VFR commercial ops. Like many I aspire to the RHS, but I fell in love with aviation through GA, and therefore, coupled with the world's money going tits up, I feel I'd being doing myself an injustice if I didn't give as much back as I can. And hey, it's great flying :ok:
I wholeheartedly agree with your sentiments regarding getting the hands and feet wet on the controls behind some real stick and rudder flying - personally I believe there's nothing better to hone one's skills than getting the Tiger or the Cub up, kicking off that x-wind whilst trying not to roll the damn thing on the landing run! Unfortunately I've not had many opportunities as of yet to get too involved with this more financially demanding side of GA, but of course that's what brings me to the CPL.

Back on track, I would love to get some night flying done while I'm out there - a close friend of mine (who, incidentally, flies with RYR these days) told me how one of the most amazing experiences of his life was taking a Warrior in to Las Vegas with an instructor at night, hitting the strip, then back to PHX for a few solo circuits and a night rating.

I do feel privileged to be joining those who have the scope to take on something different in life that few are fortunate enough to see, and I will take all advice in from those more experienced than myself to aid in making these first important decisions.

All the best, J

[Pelikanpete]

If you already have 50 P1 and 120 TT, you will only need another 50 P1.

If you want to do any extra flying above the minimum (which is 150TT including 100 P1) you might want to do it whilst you're actually on the Oxford course in Goodyear as I am told there are frequent delays in their training.