Qantas Training Centre For Service Excellence

[Ka.Boom]

Qantas has spent $10m on a training centre for 18000 of its frontline staff.
Qantas still has yet to get the fundamentals right and they provide training to teach people how to suck eggs.
The fleet is ancient
The IFE system still has a failure rate of 22% fleet wide.
Ontime departures and associated maintenance issues still dog the schedule.
The adversarial relationship with staff is still evident.
All this centre will do is set staff up to fail.
In a service industry/transport company, staff should not be put in a position where they have to apologize for a service failure or explain to a customer they cant have something that should be readily available.
Qantas is striving for consistency yet they have CC bases in LHR,BKK and AKL.Different cultures and vastly different wages structures.
This provides for little loyalty and even less consistency.
Lesly Grant and Borghetti.....get the fundamentals right, provide the resources and THEN train your people.
Worlds Premium Airline?
Not while the earth rotates will that ever happen

[Keg]

Ontime departures and associated maintenance issues still dog the schedule.

I've been more than 15 minutes late departing only once in the last 16 sectors. I've not been more than 15 minutes late departing. The info I have suggests that on time departures and arrivals for domestic services have been well north of 80% and in some cases over 90% since early December.

Tech logs are the 'cleanest' I've seen in the last five months.

I agree with many of your other points. :ok:

[Ken Borough]

I agree with many of your other points.

As captains are "senior members of the company" and, by definition, leaders, what are you, Keg, going to do about these issues?

[DEFCON4]

A Captain is both a leader and manager onboard an aircraft.
The same cannot be said of the "managers" on the ground.
If Captains were running Qantas it WOULD be the best airline on the planet.
Sadly they are not and it wont be

[Pedalz]

Not too sure what you're expecting Ken.

Captains arn't reponsible for:
- fleet aquistition
- The crummy IFE and maintenance guys put in place to "fix" the damn things after having blown off the manafacturer.
- And maintenance delays.

Im sure Keg along with the other captains dosen't purposefuly delay an aircraft. Maybe you should rephrase your statement.

[argusmoon]

Ten Years ago Qantas pinched an idea from BA...Cartops.
Unfortunately they only pinched half the idea...no safety catches to stop the cartop slding and crushing fingers.
Finally Worksafe intervened and forced the issue.
Now some genius has decided that the carts are unstable with two tubs(standard units)on top.
We are now reduced to one tub which brings us back to where we were ten years ago and making the cartops redundant.
The Circles Of Time at Qantas...you eventually end up right back where you started.
Just as an aside...you can no longer use the Wiki Wiki Bus in HNL to ride to Gate 34.
Someone hurt themselves and as a total over reaction the Wiki Wiki has been banned.
Centre Of Service Excrement more like it.
Time to Clean out Cabin Services management.
The Black Widow has been there way too long

[mrpaxing]

i did have seveal delays on my last flights (747 & A330), mainly related to engineering issues and delayed connections. IFE on both A/C still provide major challenges. i do however see a difference in engineers trying to do something about. i think the new COO already has a positive influence on these issues. but as always they will take time and the IFE there is no fix, except buy a new system.
the new TAJ Warehaus in alexandria is another example of mismanagement. they should have put the money in the emergency training facilities. EP trainers they must be the oldest, crumiest facilities of any airline in the world now. :yuk:

[lowerlobe]

Sad to hear about the Wiki Wiki bus.....you really knew you were in HNL when you got on that bus...another part of history gone...:(

As argusmoon said the company or at least our office has a history of putting the cart before the horse ....or in this case the cart tops which is example #5,368,985.

I'm expecting one day that someone in the fishbowl will create a section to build their own IFE sysytem....because they know best of course....Can't wait for that one..:E

The one thing you have to remember with the Qantas Training Centre For Service Excellence is that it maintains an old tradition of creating Empires within the company.These empires create the impression that something is being done...to outsiders at any rate.

We really should rename the company Qantas Empire Airways.....

[MrWooby]

The first thing I thought of when I saw the glossy magazine proudly announcing the "Centre for Excellence" was Homer Simpson.

Homer has also won several awards, including the 1st Annual Montgomery Burns Award For Outstanding Acheivement In The Field Of Excellence, Grammy for "outstanding soul, spoken word, or barbershop album of the year with the B-Sharps and a medal for "making what could have been a Chernobyl into Three Mile Island."

From the same people who brought you "the worlds most experienced airline".

[lowerlobe]

Could not agree more MrWooby....

Remember this is from the same people who come up with job titles such as 'Base Champion'...

Another was the response from Darth when asked about the new meal boxes used in Y/C....

"they are a great idea....it's just that we forgot to put food in them'

Or this gem from AW when talking about their ideas and decisions...."These decision's are due to sustainable management solution's moving forward"

There were the crew who lived in the office most of the time and so were known to flying crew as the 'Fear of flying club' but who were officially called 'Sherpas'.....nice little job if you could get it...

Then there were the T & D crew (Training and Development) who were known by flying crew as Torville and Dean because they were skating on thin ice....:E

When looking at some of the machinations of the airline I think Churchill's description of Russia relates to those in the office quite well....
A riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma.

[mrpaxing]

18-thousand Qantas workers, including senior management, are being re-trained to help attract travellers during the tough economic times.

Staff will re-learn makeup and grooming, telesales, check-in procedures and wine appreciation skills.

It comes after delays and maintenance problems plagued the airline throughout last year.


dont you love the QF media machine:yuk:

[Keg]

As captains are "senior members of the company" and, by definition, leaders, what are you, Keg, going to do about these issues?

Actually, I'm considered a 'senior officer' but that hasn't changed from when I was an F/O. They too are considered a 'senior officer'. That's neither here nor there.

What am I going to do? The same thing I've been doing for the last 13 years. Write flight crew reports, talk to my fleet management, provide feedback, develop myself and my peers. Etc.

Anything else you think I should be doing Ken? Any other assumptions you want to make?

[indamiddle]

the missus and i are both due to spend a day at the 'center for excellence'. she usually reads all company correspondence but seems to have missed this. does anyone know what the training entails? any info greatly appreciated.

[DEFCON4]

It means being bored to death by someone who has been flying a minute and has had 400 kilopascals of sunshine pumped up their clacker.
You will leave the facility re invigorated,re engaged and motivated to deal with the next service failure you encounter.
Not sure if you role play and pass a sponge ball around though.

[airtags]

End of the day it is up to all in Q to instigate change - both within the current systems and by using initiative and even a litle coordinated peer pressure. Rank, seniority or even perspectives of self importance are totally irrelevant - the mantra is simple;

" don't have a bitch or make a wild assumption unless you have the facts and are willing to offer a solution. "

The notion of getting out of the seat and doing a day's 'service' training is actually not a bad idea. - like the combined crew CRM sessions it will only ever be what you make of it ............and................. if the 'cloistered brides of Q' do bugger it up by stuffing up the course delivery or content then all participants should be proactive and professionally let them know they've got it wrong and offer a solution.

If they don't listen to the solution then 'use'/manipulate the systems to make things happen - and there's plenty of examples where B.S. "bureaQractic" systems have been turned on themselves and forced change.

The more I know about what happens in the cabin or the hurdles that check in or other staff face the better - end the day if I walk away knowing I've learned something (or had my view challenged) then it's time well spent.

AT :ok:

[Merlins Magic]

So let me get this straight. You go in there, they tell you how bad you have been doing everything, give you a reeming and You will leave the facility re invigorated

Sounds like an enema to me.:D

[blackguard]

QF Management dont get it.The reason they dont get it is because they never embrace,consult or include their staff in anything.
Cartops:an expensive joke
Uniforms.Teflon ties to replace recently introduced ties
Operations:A letter from your great grandparents will get you in
Procedures:Not enough manpower onboard to effectively deliver the service:
Check In and Departure:Ditto
Qantas aspires to be more like the Borg Collective than an airline
Resistance is not futile Ms. Black Widow.
Pissing your employees off is.

[rmcdonal]

Staff will re-learn makeup and grooming, telesales, check-in procedures and wine appreciation skills.
Sounds like my kind of day at the office, where do I sign up?

[argusmoon]

Qantas Employees have adapted to change for the last twenty years or more.
Offer a solution to a problem and you are told it wont work.The only good ideas come from the citadel.
Six months after you have offered a solution it will appear with some one elses name attached to it.
If you do happen to point out a problem you will be told you are being negative.
The anti Qantas posts made on PPrune are because people are totally frustrated by a management who are incompetent but who assume that they are infallible.
Someone else said it:there is no inclusion
This Blackberry fiasco is a perfect example.Qantas wants the thing to do what it is NOT designed to do.Its 2G and doesnt have enough memory.
A netbook would have been far more appropriate.Do they listen?NO!
The money wasted is astounding.
Service Excellence?They wouldnt know it if it bit them in the butt
Its not the staff who need the training.
Its management!!!!

[indamiddle]

wine appreciation=pi$$ up. now they have my undivided attention.
will they be providing home transport? obvious OH+S issues here

[mrpaxing]

Its not the staff who need the training.
Its management!!!!

WRONG! they dont need training they need to be replaced! :ok:

[stubby jumbo]

Finally.............my favourite topic-THE INCOMPETENT BUFFOONS we call QF management.

These shelf packers need more than a excretional program to give them some reality-they need to get off their butts and experience the operation to see what really happens-then. just maybe we may have some hope

I for one will be pulling the pin everytime I am rostered on this "reprogram".

I have done:
SPIRIT WORKSHOPS
TAKING OFF
FLYING HIGH
J/C LAUNCH...GOLD LAMAE FIASCO
EXCEPTIONAL #1 & #2....enough crap. The "experience "lasted 2 min until I walked back on to the floor of QCC/1 and saw fatboy slim,:rolleyes:

I have done my penance.......:ugh:

[QFinsider]

Seriously, when in the last 10 years did the management of Qantas listen to anything from the floor up?

There are plenty of airlines who instigated change, it started with listening to the professionals that deliver the product, be they check in staff, engineers, cabin crew et al.

Qantas continues to do it the wrong way round. It wasn't service failure that created the problem, it was and remains an out of touch management failing almost daily to provide the frontline staff with the correct equipment to deliver the product.

As I have said before, if you want to know how to better deliver cabin service, ask the flight attendants. If you want to know how to better perform a certain maintenance procedure, ask an engineer..Management won't as they 'know' better, hence another programme delivered from the top that is tantamount to saying the reason last year was so horrible was the staff failed to deliver the pollished piece of crap that is IFE, check in systems...etc

Gordon Bethune did it at Continental, the same is occuring at Air NZ..Managers/leaders/what ever their title this week get out of your offices, stop listening to accountants and go see how the work is done..It cannot, never has or will be gleaned from a spreadsheet, pie chart or graph......:ugh:

[genex]

The Board has chosen a new CEO and he has a new agenda and is very success driven. But it will take time and this is a start. Or did you think change would spontaneously erupt?

Why not listen for a while instead of whining about how "you've seen it all before". Just maybe some of the previous initiatives had some good in them....maybe some were wild eyed and inept. There is change and if its too hard to get out of the "poor me" culture then stand aside and let someone else have your graet job.

Or....be part of the rebuilding.....far more difficult than moaning but much more rewarding

[Keg]

I have to say that I back genex home 100% on this one. For the last few years we've slagged Geoff off for not focusing on the service aspects of the company. This is a start on what will be a long journey. The proof as to whether AJ is serious will be the next 6-12 months.

[mrpaxing]

AJ some time to act. however with the same buffon in place there will never be a change. a leopard does not change his/her spot. unless AJ cleans the place out there will be no goodwill from frontline staff.:=

[lowerlobe]

The Board has chosen a new CEO and he has a new agenda and is very success driven.
The important part of that is the word success....

It will take sometime to see what AJ's definition of 'Success' is.....

mrpaxing is right on the money simply because the management ethic designed by Darth is so entrenched.

I doubt that simply replacing the CEO will be enough to change the inherent problems the company has....because it has taken years to get to this point.

The attitude of management is like a cancer and a lot will need to be removed and replaced with fresh people and ideas and not just the man at the top....

[stubby jumbo]

Agree......if AJ is serious about change then there needs to be a total DETOX of the EGM's /GGM's. The new guy from Virgin Atlantic is a step in the right direction, however, he has a massive portfolio/silo.

Il Duce needs to be "punted straight between the posts" and park his Porche somewhere else!........maybe there is a gig going at Alitalia.

Agree , that it is early daze, however, as others' have said here ........its going to take a lot to get us back to a point where at least we can be proud to say we work for QF. At the moment-the public image of the brand ( in Aust any way) is trashed.:{

Thanks to Darth and his band of marauders:ouch:

RIP , RANT & RORT

[DEFCON4]

Its not about "poor me".Its about poor Qantas and the way it has been trashed by its mismanagement.
Training Staff without fixing the fundamentals is absurd.Management have this attitude that everything wrong with Qantas is down to the employees,
While ever they have that misconception nothing will ever change.In fact it will make circumstances worse.

[Qantas 787]

I don't get this board - they are doing something about customer service and get critised for it. If you all think the problems are in management, it is not something that fixes itself overnight. The mere fact management are attending this is at least something positive.

Personally, for those staff with 'poor customer service', they should just quit. If they really hate thier jobs or the company so much, give their job to someone who actually wants it.

[packrat]

At QF Poor customer service is down to lack of resources and lack of manpower.
Training will not fix that.The fundamental problems will still be there even after everyone has been pumped full of sunshine.
Improve resources and manpower and then introduce the training.
Qantas wants to fly like an F18 but only provides a tiger moth..The employees are supposed to bridge the gap

[QFinsider]

excellent analogy packrat....

When all else fails blame the staff..
The fact that management have driven the company to where it is right now, rewarded by handsome bonuses is forgotten by way too many.

Spend $10 million fixing the IFE............
The more things change the more they stay the same

[Ngineer]

Does anyone know if this new training facility was the old Apprentice training school in Alexandria? If so, I find it extremely distasteful that JB would state that this $10mill investment is proof of the money that Qf is putting into staff training. It seems that some departments are screaming out for a pittance on necessary training, whilst much needed funding is being carelessly squandered away somewhere else.

I know our dept is desperately under-trained, and has not seen any capital injection for a few years. EG, when was the last time an engineer received any CAR214 inclass training for aircraft differences?

[surfside6]

Its the Apprentice Engineer facility...just frocked up

[mrpaxing]

dressing up mutton as lamb. aren't we used to it now!!!!!!!:ugh:

[bushy]

But it's EXCELLENT mutton, and they are probably using WORLD'S BEST PRACTICE to get ELITE people from their CENTRE OF EXCELLENCE.

[dizzylizzy]

Let's not forget the surposed BFA 'dears trying to teach us how to make scrambled eggs in the A330 cabin mock up not that SH have regionals to put this into practice... suddenly went from cooked to green in 30secs... took so long one of the other class members yelled "uh oh we've just passed top of descent now" and he was shooed outside.

So I guess this time it'll be all about placing the most hated service item.... THE TABLEMAT down the correct way and colour coodinating it with the hot cups. "oh no you can't put the purple with the red but you can put the red with the green". Oh and let's not forget "I know its not procedure but I like telling customers to put their rubbish inside of the tablemat and saying its for hygene reasons" - maybe they should teach manners seeing as a majority of children aren't taught this anymore. Finally not to mention the beloved bodum convention at the David Jones foodhall near you.

[dizzylizzy]

Let's not forget the tablemat you had with your juice/cookie. As for OTP, there will never be 'hot' turns at SH anytime soon.

[dizzylizzy]

I think its time we start an Anti Tablemat campaign and push for the return of tray services.

[surfside6]

Well the dancing girls were out and the idiots on springs were there too.
There was the buzz of the first day of kindergarten.Sure,attend with an open mind.You might learn something.....Wrong!!!!!.
The best part of the day was a module regarding Speed Thinking by Dr. Ken Hudson.
The rest was at best irrelevant.
Folks get the fundamentals right...provide the resources...the rest will follow.
At least the joint was airconditioned

[Ngineer]

WOW, $10 million dollars spent on a facility that we already had. Just where did all that money go???:rolleyes:

[Short_Circuit]

And what will happen with Engineering Apprentices?

Have QE stopped training again / still ?