Crew lane for arriving crew, not!

[Qanchor]

I guess it’s a hoary chestnut, but why doesn’t AQIS provide a “crew lane” for arriving crew?
At the end of long back of the clock flight wouldn’t it be nice to clear customs & quarantine with a minimum of fuss?
Any AQIS staff out there care to comment?

[blueloo]

.... because this is Australia, and we can't be seen to be helping those pompous overpaid glorified crew who spend their lives swanning around the world.

[twiggs]

There is in Sydney, but haven't noticed one anywhere else.
The only way to expedite your exit at other ports is to be given a green stamp from one of the AQIS staff in the baggage collection area.
Be careful though, you won't get one if you approach them.

[blueloo]

The Sydney one is only a recent half-arsed attempt at a crew lane. It is a combined express card passenger lane and only for nothing to declare...or green stamped.

Most other Aussie ports have a purely dedicated crew lane. Sydney appears to be the only exception to this (unless it has changed in the last 3 weeks).

[Skystar320]

Perth has one for outgoing crew

inbound no

[blueloo]

Perth has a inbound crew passport line ...on the RHS...which then comes back to center.

There is also a dedicated quarantine/customs lane on the RHS of the raceway - you wouldnt know it - but there are little white signs on the top of the raceway (Crew or assisted pax). An officer stands there to let you through to the xray....or directs you to quarantine - the raceway usually puts you in front of the pax.

[Wiley]

Haven't passed through YBBN as crew in some time, so it may have changed, but Brisbane AQIS staff when I was last there seemed to go out of their way to ensure crew "knew their place" - at the back of the very long queue. There was certainly no dedicated crew lane.

[Little_Red_Hat]

There is a way to get through, if youve had the 'education'...
(and no I'm not talking bribery!!! :E)

There's a few little words one can write on the crew immigration form, if you have the right people on duty (read: not autonomous robot variety who follow everything to the last detail) that will get you into the right lane for processing quickly, but of course there's no way I'm repeating it here or everyone will use it!!! :}

The crew lane in Perth is a bit hit and miss, sometimes if they're really busy you still get shunted to the back of the queue, and yes after an all-nighter (flight that is :E) it's the straw that breaks the camel's back!

[Beer Baron]

Wiley, I came through Brisbane International last week and it's just as bad as you remember. The crew lane for immigration is mixed with the 'Assisted Passengers' and Express Lane so be prepared for a looooooonnnng wait.
The 3 Jumbos worth of passengers were through the normal lanes long before any of the crew had got near the front. In the end they moved us all over to the vacant normal lanes. Reminded me why I try to avoid Brisbane. :ugh:

[Howard Hughes]

At the end of long back of the clock flight wouldn’t it be nice to clear customs & quarantine with a minimum of fuss?
I'm sure your passengers (who have been sitting in the 30 inch seat pitch) are thinking exactly the same thing!:hmm:

[das Uber Soldat]

I doubt the pax go through the process as regularly as the crew. :ok:

[Worrals in the wilds]

Customs and AQIS are flat out staffing the pax lanes, let alone an extra crew lane. You'll be searching your own bag and reading yourself the 'Declare everything' lecture if current trends continue. :ouch:

IIRC, management in Canberra were against the idea. BNE had an informal crew lane for a while that was stomped on by the fearless leaders as soon as they found out about it.

Lobby the Ministers!


Worrals

[Big Jan]

What , the pax that have been drinking booze, watching videos and sleeping for the last few hours ? :yuk:
Don't forget, we all travel as pax from time to time and don't expect any favours then.

[Howard Hughes]

What , the pax that have been drinking booze, watching videos and sleeping for the last few hours ?
I say again, in the 30 inch seat pitch!:E
Don't forget, we all travel as pax from time to time and don't expect any favours then.
So you've never expected an upgrade then?

Rather than mere passengers, perhaps you should start looking at them as customers! You know as in the customer comes first!:ooh:

[Mud Skipper]

Who cares how fast you get through if you wait 45+ minutes for the bags to arrive.
It's a game of F* U with our baggage handlers & customs/quarantine, certainly doesn't happen overseas and no I'm not just being precious.

Perhaps if we push the company to adjust our stand down town this issue could suddenly move into line with the rest of the world:\

[Big Jan]

I say again, in the 30 inch seat pitch!


I say again DRINKING BOOZE!
Besides 30 inches is not a problem for most normal sized people.

No I have never EXPECTED an upgrade.

The customer came first in the aircraft and when we reach the customs queue I become a customer with lots of frequent flyer points (for lack of a better description).:}

[Qanchor]

Mr Hughes,
When we depart on a trip, we use a dedicated crew channel, then after the passport/GD check we are permitted to go straight to the front of the queue at the x-ray machines, security staff will hold pax to allow us through.
At the end of a flight, again, crew have a dedicated channel for passport/DG checks.
I fail to see why this theme can't migrate to AQIS. AQIS do not have to roster a quarantine officer just for crew. They need only simply allow us through the tape when they see us waiting. It can't be that hard.

[blueloo]

Yes a little one sided I know - but without the crew the majority of customs officers and quarantine officers would be unemployed. Like all industries one job tends to lead to other jobs and the flow on continues.


We are merely going through customs/AQIS as a matter of course for our employment. I don't believe we should be excluded from random screening, but as the customs/AQIS is a necessary part of us getting to or from work, I think a dedicated crew lane is essential. Why does Australia find it so hard to do - rest of the world does - are we a little behind the times here?

Hey if we get slowed down - I don't mind - as long as my company pays me for my time, and my company bills customs/aqis.

[Wiley]

The people who'd be offended.. they'd be the same ones who are offended by crew going to the head of the queue at the outbound security checks, I suppose. So incredibly thick that they'd rather their flight departed late than see "them crews" get preferental treatment. Bogans.

Anyone who believes that someone who's been on his or her butt for the last eight to fifteen hours, even in a 30" pitch seat, is as in need to get to bed as a crewmember who, in the case of cabin crew, have walked for most of that time, is too thick to have his opinion considered.

[walaper]

Qanchor the problem is the airlines would have arrangements with Customs et al for an expeditious departure but there is nothing benefitting them having you out quickly at the other end.

[packrat]

Lets cancel the outbound crew line as well.
The next time your aircraft departs late(and you miss your connection) because the Tech and Cabin Crew were held up at the security checkpoint perhaps you will reconsider your assinine point of view.
You cant have it both ways Howie

[virgindriver]

I don't think Mr Hughes is an airline pilot- GA in a Beech 200.....

[lowerlobe]

I think if you read Back Seat Driver's post you will be close to the mark as to the reason for all of this....

In the Good Old Day's there was a dedicated Customs channel for Crew in Sydney.Then remember when crew for a short while had their own carousel for baggage...for a short while until ....and this is only a rumour....sheer nylon or Winnie had it shut down.Their argument was that it gave the pax the wrong idea that crew were being given preferential treatment....and anyone who has flown for more than one trip and read the post by HH will understand the jealousy that most pax have about crew and what they receive.

However, I think the real issue is that whichever group owns the airport will want money for providing a separate crew channel ...and the company will never be interested in paying that unless....both crew unions insist that crew pay includes time spent in terminals and does not stop until you have cleared customs and immigration....

Good Luck with that one but don't hold your breath.

[Howard Hughes]

Stick that in your 30" pitch you arrogant self absorbed tosser
Your post was quite informative until this point Ka Boom, so I will look past the attempt at an insult and give you the benefit of the doubt, it is probably fair to asume that you just completed a long tour! As Virgin driver has quite correctly pointed out I am not an airline pilot, however my family has been involved in the airline business for over 60 years, with experience in BEA, BA, AN, TN, KA & QF and I have a thorough understanding of the machinations of an airline!;)

Now to Mr Qanchor and others who can construct a valid argument. My suggestion would be that if there were to be a dedicated crew line (both inbound and outbound) that it be totally seperate from the passengers, with a simplified procedure. Those of you who have read my previous comments on crew screening at domestic ports will understand why!

Outbound a quick retina scan and stamp the passport. Inbound a quick retina scan, stamp the passport, pick up your bags, through the AQIS X-Ray machine, all totally out of sight of the passengers. Of course there would be random checks by sniffer dogs and the occasional random screening but otherwise a very simplified procedure. :ok:

May I be so bold to ask how it is done elsewhere? Do all foreign ports have a dedicated crew line for inbound crew, or only outbound?

Now back to my issue with the 30" seat pitch! To all those who are defending the comfort of the 30" seat pitch and God forbid the 29", I would purport that you have never completed an ultra long haul light in one of those seats!:E

It is no coincidence that the rise in the appearance of DVT's in airline passenegers, coincides with the reduction of seat pitch below 32"...:ooh:

[Bad Hat Harry]

Considering that you have been associated with airlines for 60 years it is surprising that you are unaware of how foreign airports handle crew both in and outbound.
Every foreign airport has a dedicated crew line.
It has come to the point where a large number of Crew dont take a case with them any more due to the rubbish they are subjected to on arrival into Australia.
Your suggestion regarding retina scans etc is simplistic.
You ignore the cost of such a scheme...who pays?
Australia is becoming a third world country in regard to Airport infastructure.
Asian airports make Australian airports look like tin sheds.
As far as 30" pitch is concerned..start another thread...this is about crew channels

[twiggs]

I'm struggling to think of somewhere else in the world that there is a dedicated lane for crew to clear customs/quarantine.
I have waited in long lines in LAX together with pax, LHR we go out airside, FRA rarely has a long line but it is the same for pax and crew, SIN is the same.
NRT has a dedicated crew lane and is the only one I can think of at the moment.

Australia has the most thorough inbound screening of anywhere in the world so it really is no surprise that it is a longer process for us, and really means that comapring us with other countries is like apples and oranges.

Most Australian ports have improved a lot, especially Sydney with the dedicated lane for crew with nothing to declare. Even if you have something to declare and you get a green stamp you are straight out anyway.

I think the main delay when arriving into Australia for most crew is waiting for checked baggage.
Before and after that, it is pretty good.

[Howard Hughes]

Thanks for that balanced view Twiggs, it would appear that things are not all bad!:ok:

Harry, simple is what it should be! If retina scans are too expensive then fingerprint scans, this technology is not only affordable, but readily available!

As many have pointed out, where the system falls down is waiting for baggage, might I suggest not putting a crew tag on your bag...;)

[lowerlobe]

I'm struggling to think of somewhere else in the world that there is a dedicated lane for crew to clear customs/quarantine.
Twiggs...I know it's a while since I flew but I'm not the only one however, in one terminal in LAX at least there was a dedicated channel for crew immigration...might have changed since but it was there once.You then picked up your bag and pretty much walked out the door...Immigration was the biggest hold up but your bags were usually there quickly.

Singapore like Frankfurt is so well organised it doesn't take long unless there is a blitz on that day....and that can happen anywhere so you don't need a separate crew channel there.

London is a point where crew do not go through with the rest of the pax and go direct by bus...

Hong Kong had a dedicated crew channel.....

Narita has a separate crew channel....

Rome in the days when we used to fly there had a dedicated crew channel....

Amsterdam did as well from memory.....

San Francisco ....I think it did anyway it's a new airport there now anyway so it could be different.

BKK had a separate crew channel....for diplomats as well but there was never any delay unless you were being checked.

Bahrain did have a separate channel....

Bombay has or did ...at least in the old terminal

I can't remember YVR....too long ago or too many beers ago.

DPS from memory had a separate crew channel as did CGK..

JFK did....until the company and the union gave it away...

Sydney used to have a separate crew channel in the old days but that has been taken away as I said as has the crew baggage carousel and that was at the instigation of someone in the office...

So Howard it's not exactly as balanced as Twiggs has suggested.
I think the main delay when arriving into Australia for most crew is waiting for checked baggage.
Before and after that, it is pretty good.
Yep,I agree with you that before is was OK but after collecting bags and trying to get through AQIS and Customs was a nightmare at times in Sydney as well as Brisbane.
As many have pointed out, where the system falls down is waiting for baggage, might I suggest not putting a crew tag on your bag...
Howard..now I now you don't know what you are talking about....The company does that for a good reason which is obvious..however,you are right in a way and that I have often thought that it sometimes has a negative affect on where your bags end up....and not only in Sydney.However,that does not solve the issue about clearing customs and immigration..as well as quarantine

The bottom line is that the company has no say in airports around the world but at home seems not interested in a crew channel for a reason known only to themselves....probably money.

[mrpaxing]

twiggsy, been sprung again. when are youy going to give up possing as crew?:yuk:
Howard here is the drill from a current bun tosser,
LAX-dedicated crew lane inbound/outbound
AKL-no dedicated lane but you can get through always by invitation from customs/quarantine
HGK- dedicated crew channel in/outbound
SIN-dedicated icrew channel n-outbound
FRA- dedicated crew channel lane in-outbound
PVG-dedicated crew channel in/outbound
PEK- dedicated in/outbound crew channel
BOM- dedicated in/outbound crew channel
SFO- dedicated in-outbound crew channel
NRT- dedicated in/outbound crew channel
LHR i havent been in years.

yes here in Oz it is a problem all around. and Howard we dont get a stamp in the passport otherwise we be changing passports every few months.
this is a national issue which the respective AIPA/FAAA excecutives should take up with the Minister/Airports/Airlines.etc.
that would mean they would have to get of their butts.................
thats another story all together:E

[twiggs]

mrpaxing, I think you are confusing passport control with customs/quarantine, and the latter is what the original post was about.
Australia definitely has a crew lane for passport control at all airports in and out.

[A Comfy Chair]

Singapore quarantine is irrelivant, you are never stopped, however we are all required to exit via the RED channel, where if there are passengers waiting you are waved to the front and out the door (unless they're in the mood for checking)

Hong Kong has its own Quarantine exit.

Los Angeles - Queue up with passengers but its a 2 minute wait then on your way.

Frankfurt - Never been stopped for Quarantine (so never been delayed by lack of crew channel), but its possible.

For me, the issue isn't that we don't have a dedicated crew lane... its that we don't have a way of exiting the airport in a timely fashion. I'm more than happy to stand in a 5 minute queue with the passengers. I'm NOT, however, happy to stand in a 1.5hr queue in Sydney, Brisbane and Melbourne having just done SYD - CHC - SYD and having not even stepped foot off the aircraft!

If they just sorted out AQIS, and put on some more staff so that the desks were actually manned on ALL days, not just the ones that the Border Security crew are there, we wouldn't have a need for a crew channel (and we'd have happier visitors to Australia!)

[DEFCON4]

The Smartgate and Epassport facilities have not been available for over 6 weeks.
Dont take checked luggage and the Customs process is much faster.
As for Customs lines overseas it is pretty much a non event simply because the airports are far more effcicent than Australian Airports.
All inbound crews to Australia are subject to the same nonsense.
Heard one SingAir hostie descibe it as Farking ridiculous
Twiggsy you need to get out a bit more.

[jungle juice]

Miss Twiggs,yes sprung again as mrpaxing said.
The thread is about a lane for arriving crew as distinct from the passengers.
I'm struggling to think of somewhere else in the world that there is a dedicated lane for crew to clear customs/quarantine.
That means passport and then clearing customs/quarantine not just the latter.You might have trouble thinking which but that does not mean they don't exist.

There are a number of other international airports which want to distinguish between passengers and operating crew but those in Australia do not seem to be interested.
As DEFCON4 said you need to get out more.

In all honesty,are there any other airports other than ours that we fly to which are more difficult to clear.

[twiggs]

That means passport and then clearing customs/quarantine not just the latter.You might have trouble thinking which but that does not mean they don't exist.

As has already been mentioned, crew have a dedicated lane for passport control at all Australian ports inbound and outbound which function adequately, especially with the option of Smartgate or E-Passport.
The issue is only about not having dedicated lanes at all airports for customs/quarantine clearance, and perhaps baggage collection.

From my experience, Sydney is fine if you have nothing to declare because you can use the dedicated express lane.
If you have items to declare there may be a wait, but for most crew who don't have anything to declare, you are straight out after x-ray following baggage collection.

[Beer Baron]

Twiggs is spot on here. The original thread was about AQIS. AQIS is 'Australian Quarantine and Inspection Service' NOT Immigration. Seperate but similar issues which make it hard to compare us against other countries. Australian dedicated crew immigration queues definately exist (some better than others), not so with AQIS.

[jungle juice]

The issue is only about not having dedicated lanes at all airports for customs/quarantine clearance, and perhaps baggage collection.

From my experience, Sydney is fine if you have nothing to declare because you can use the dedicated express lane.
If you have items to declare there may be a wait, but for most crew who don't have anything to declare, you are straight out after x-ray following baggage collection.
MS Twiggs,as said before I think you need to get out a bit more.

Sydney is a nightmare at times whether you have something to declare or not.If AQIS is in full swing and several aircraft have arrived at the same time it is not a lot of fun.Waiting for you turn at the X-ray is a pain when you have just done a long TOD.
Sydney is also only one of 3 main Australian airports that can be very testing on your patience with ADL & PER increasing in size every year.

As Lobey said other countries have separate crew channels for customs,why can't we?
In all honesty,are there any other airports other than ours that we fly to which are more difficult to clear.
So Ms Twiggs answer my question.

[twiggs]

No problem JJ, LAX has equally as many issues. If SYD and LAX are both busy, they have similar delays, except SYD has the advantage of the express lane, so it wins.

Now a question for you, JJ.
Is there any other country in the world that has stricter quarantine and customs regulations than Australia?
When you answer no, then maybe you will realise that our airports are doing pretty well now.
(It may not have been the case a couple of years ago , but most certainly is now.)

[A Comfy Chair]

I've never seen LAX slow at Quarantine at all. You must be unlucky! (Or me very lucky!)

I'd say that NZ has stricter Quarantine requirements than Aus.

[mcgrath50]

As I watch the crew jump the line I do think 'Ya bastards'

But understand they have a job to do etc. etc. (as others have mentioned) so its fair enough.

[Howard Hughes]

Did you willingly purchase this fare or were you forced into that seat for all those hours? Why do people travel when they don't HAVE TO?

Unfortunately there have been continually decreasing seat pitches for years! I would be happy to pay a little extra, for a little extra room without resorting to JC or FC. I think QF and others that offer 'premium economy' are certainly on to something!:ok:
By the way, those crew seats of ours are designed for survivability and functionality - not comfort.
But what about the crew rest?:E

PS: For optimum survivabilty shouldn't your seat be rearwards facing?;)

[Wiley]

I have to say that outbound at the x-ray machine, I make a point of saying "excuse me" to the pax I cut in front of, and if he looks like he understands Strine, I make a comment about our trying to get to the aircraft in time to get his flight away on time. Even if he's not on our flight, it usually gets a good reaction, even from the Non-Strine speakers I can only say "excuse me" to.

[Worrals in the wilds]

whichever group owns the airport will want money for providing a separate crew channel...
I don't see why, because I would have thought the channel could be intergrated into the Tensa Barrier maze, without any major structural work. One AQIS X ray could be dedicated to the cause. The setup of the Customs hall is primarily the responsibility of Customs and AQIS, and occupied by the government rent free under an annoying (for the airport operator) section of the Customs Act.
What do New Zealand do? They are one of the few countries with as restrictive quarantine regulations as us, do they have crew processing?
There is no point in comparing the wave through in Asia and Europe as they have little reason to care about your animal / plant materials unless your bag content is actually kicking and trying to bite people.

Asian airports make Australian airports look like tin sheds
True, for some. Others look like, well, tin sheds. New Delhi springs to mind, and on the other topic, they provided two rather geriatric baggage handlers for a fully loaded 777 and another heavy arrival. I know, because I got so bored waiting for my stuff that I went and looked through the window at the "help" desk. One got the feeling that elephants were still a vital part of the baggage system.

I agree with you totally about having a dedicated channel, crew are generally a low risk (and those who aren't can be easily diverted) and just clutter up the place when it's busy. I would have thought that getting 'em out the door made sense from both an enforcement and (crew) client relations perspective.

At the end of the day, you won't get it if you don't nag, ie your employers, your unions, the government and the airports. Get writing!

[packrat]

......If the 9 to 5 groundhogs had to spend an extra hour and a half getting out the front door after they had finished work and ceased being paid.
I imagine that the problem would be rectified in a nano second.
As for crew rest seats...rest is an oxymoron.
Comfortable they are not.
Ten hours on an A330 during a day sector is not a nice day.Its even worse on a 200 as there is no mid cabin crossover.
Howard Hughes...you and Billy Connolly should team up.You are way more amusing than he is

[lowerlobe]

Worrals in the wilds...

You're right about it going nowhere unless crew start writing to the company,the union and anyone else who will listen.

The problem is that it will cost money because the machine you mention will have to come from somewhere..unless you know of one that has fallen off the back of a truck.:E

Then of course it will need an operator or two...then there is the customs officer to clear you after you have been screened.All of that is not free and someone will have to pay.

Customs and AQIS do not have spare staff standing around idle during the peak times....

packrat is right as well....Can you imagine the office dwellers starting work not at 9 am or 8.30 am but at 3 am or so and when finishing at 5 pm have to wait in line an hour or more to get out of the building before they even start to walk to the train station or bus stop?

[Qanchor]

Hang on. Where's the cost in keeping an unmanned lane closed with a sign saying, "Crew only", then when we present at the barrier, the nearest AQIS officer temporarily halts the lane he/she is working on and comes over to check us through to one of the x-ray machines already in use. No additional or dedicated staff and no additional or dedicated x-ray machine for crew, just efficient use of staff & equipment.

[Worrals in the wilds]

Lowerlobe, I know of a few that should have fallen off the back of trucks... some of the old machines were flat out spotting an M-16 in a pillow... :\

Of course, there is always a cost. Extra staffing by the border agencies is not going to happen without a fight (reference first post). However, the airports I am familiar with rarely have all AQIS machines in use at once. Crew are not generally difficult to process, being non-simian, aware of the regs and amenable to loading their own bags. Therefore, it could be done (and was done until kyboshed) with one or two AQIS or ACS.


Qanchor, the only prob with stopping a lane for crew (which used to happen at Immigration, dunno if it still does) or queue jumping them is that it creates civil unrest among the pax. Various people have posted about the preceived 'special treatment' of crew which is not generally an argument I buy, but closing a pax queue to process crew is not a good look for either the crew or the border agencies. It would be better to have a separate machine staffed by a floater with the magic caveat... Subject to Operational Requirements, ie, no staff, no crew queue.

[DutchRoll]

The whole crux of this within Oz seems to be the "you're no damn better than anyone else" principle which is common throughout society here. It's all related to "Tall Poppies" and so on.

Unfortunately the principle is twisted and skewed far too frequently and ends up preventing people for whom the duty hours, overtime, and/or departure time clock is ticking efficiently getting to and from their workplace.

Regrettably Customs and Quarantine often subscribe to this too. And Security almost always do despite the alleged "crew lanes" and crew signs! I confess to having on occasion let out loud a few wry comments about how unfortunate it is that this extra time is going to cost the airline more money, which will in turn be added to the ticket price, or delay their arrival at their destination. It's amazing how many passengers get out of your way then.

[lowerlobe]

just efficient use of staff.
....Now Qanchor,that made me laugh...you do understand we are talking about the public service here....the use of the word efficient and public service in the same sentence or even the same page is a contradiction in terms...

DutchRoll...You hit the nail on the head...

How many times do we hear of a Frequent flyer whinge and moan to us that because of an aircraft delay they are now going to be disadvantaged and will miss a meeting or whatever and this will cost them money?

Now if the same is said to them as crew are trying to get to an aircraft to be able to have an on time departure it's a different matter...

If those same people after leaving their desk had to wait in a line for more than an hour before they could leave the building they would hit the roof....

Apart from the tall poppy syndrome I think the other issue is that we are living in the 'ME' era.It's all about 'Me' and how something is going to affect 'Me' and this also created the era of lack of personal responsibility.....

"Look there's water or something on the floor....I could have slipped...You've caused me stress and anxiety....I'm going to sue you".

[roamingwolf]

Don't waste your time telling the airline about this.Do you reckon the company will do anything.
Boys and Girls do the opposite and just find a cosy spot on the floor somewhere and have a nap if the line is too long.If anyone tries to move you tell em your fatigued and feel like your going to fall over any minute.

After a couple of pax take photos with their phones and send em to the papers the airline will want to talk with us.

[ACMS]

Mr Hughes: In CX our Australian flights take about 9 hours, mostly through the night. The cockpit crew do NOT have any bunks in the A330. They get a maximum of 2.3 hours rest in a J class seat. The Cabin crew are lucky to get 2 hrs rest in a Y class seat. ( sometimes seats are not available for the cabin crew to use)
All the crew are on DUTY for 10+ hrs THROUGH THE NIGHT.

The ONLY airports in the world I go to that are a pain in the ass getting out of ( after arrival ) are in AUSTRALIA.

Yes, we should get priority or a dedicated channel, my F:mad: oath

[Captain Dart]

I do lots of third world flying. Melbourne Airport Quarantine shambles; absolutely bloody appalling.

[clear to land]

Working for EK, we have many layovers in 1st/2nd and 3rd world countries. Almost all have crew channels. Without a doubt, the Australian entry process is the most painful and embarrassing. Not only do they have no recognition that we have worked all night, we are usually treated with open hostility. As an Aussie, I am both personally and professionally embarrassed when arriving in Aus, and the crew, if new , all ask "why are they like this??'. Even Bangladesh, one of the worlds poorest countries, is so superior as to be beyond comparison. Why? I believe it to be the classic tall poppy syndrome, at which we Aussies unfortunately excel. It is more than just $$$, it is ATTITUDE. :ugh:

[Wiley]

clear to land, concur 100%.

[clawmonstar]

Totally Great Idea!

Brisbane Airports Corporation. There are a more than a few words that come to mind to describe them, but not too many that do not need to be cen$ored.

[jungle juice]

Originally posted by TwiggsI'm struggling to think of somewhere else in the world that there is a dedicated lane for crew to clear customs/quarantine.
Originally posted by Howard HughesThanks for that balanced view Twiggs, it would appear that things are not all bad
After reading some of the above post Howard ,I think you might be able to see that it is just not the view of qantas crew and that some other posts are not that balanced.
It is really a disgrace and as some are saying,it is probably the old Australian affliction,the Tall poppy syndrome.

[farrari]

ACMS, totally agree with you and many others. Sydney airport is owned partly by me :eek: yes I am a small shareholder in Macquarie Airports. I suggest like me we ring them up on 612 82329634 or fax 61282324713 and ask them as" customers" that we would like them to consider a dedicated crew lane into Australia at Sydney, after all they make heaps of money out of that place.

[twiggs]

Farrari,
if you do call, the reply they will probably give is that there already is a dedicated crew lane in Sydney.
The problem seems to be that not many foreign crew know about it.
I am talking about arriving through exits A/B (gates 8-37), which is where we exclusively exit, so I'm not sure if it's the same when you exit from C/D (50-63).
I agree about that the attitude of the AQIS staff in Australia in that they don't seem very keen to point crew in the right direction, and are happy to see them wait when they may not need to.
I have not had this experience in Sydney in the past few months although I know exactly where to go now to expedite my exit and I have found the AQIS staff reasonable helpful there.
A few months ago our crew waited a long time in a snaking queue at Perth quarantine.
Brisbane and Melbourne have also had similar delays.
I have waited on the crew bus for up to an hour for one or two crew who have items to declare, and that is where the system is falling down for us.

I agree with clear to land in that I have been very embarassed by the behaviour of the ACS and AQIS staff to foreign crew and passengers.
The attitude that "everyone should know how it works in Australia and you are somehow an inconvenience if you don't", is very prevalent.
The way they "talk down" to people who's first language is not english, is disgusting sometimes.
They don't have a monopoly on this attitude, some security screening staff demonstrate this behaviour as well.

I would suggest that for foreign crews arriving in Australia, the captain approach the AQIS or ACS staff and ask them where they should go to make their exit as efficient as possible.

[farrari]

twiggs, I am right in saying that at Sydney there is a deicated immigration lane but not one for quarantine.

[twiggs]

In Sydney, there is an express lane for quarantine but it is generally only available if you have nothing to declare or do have, but get a green stamp from the AQIS staff in the baggage collection area.
For exits A/B it is located to the far right hand side of the baggage hall.
I would suggest all crew head there and just ask if it is ok to exit there.

It is actually a trial at this stage, so I'm sure they would appreciate feedback, and it will probably be extended to all airports if the trial encounters no major issues.

[jungle juice]

twiggs, I am right in saying that at Sydney there is a deicated immigration lane but not one for quarantine.
farrari,that is the issue but some here are not addressing that.

There is no lane dedicated to crew for clearing customs and quarantine.

The answer as suggested by Twiggs is not to rort or use another idea that is intended to streamline passengers through customs and quarantine.

We want a dedicated lane for crew to clear customs and AQIS- PURE & SIMPLE -

Not another lane which when crew start using it as twiggs has suggested will then be closed down for crew when the amount of crew becomes too large.

[twiggs]

Jungle Juice,
the express lane is available for crew use, it is not a rort.

[jungle juice]

Twiggs,is it a crew channel?

Or is it a passenger channel?

The people posting here are talking about a dedicated crew channel.
Not something meant for other people that crew can use UNTIL too many crew start using it and AQIS and Customs shut it down for us.

[twiggs]

It is for all crew and invited passengers

[jungle juice]

It's no wonder people here don't believe you're crew Twiggs.This is just the same double meaning rubbish we get from the company.

So does the sign say "FOR ALL CREW and INVITED PASSENGERS"

Is there are sign above the lane stating that this is a crew lane?

YES or NO

Not a priority lane or express lane but a CREW LANE.

YES or NO

Also what happens to crew that have something to declare?
How long do the rest of the crew have to wait for them on the crew bus?

If there was a dedicated crew channel for AQIS and Customs this would not be as big a problem as it is at present.

[farrari]

Ok, so let me see I have this correct. At Sydney there is no deicated lane for CREW either at C or Q. We need however, just that for all Crew, which many other places have.

[mcgrath50]

Jungle Juice,

Having flown through Sydney twice in the past few months I can tell you although the lane is not CREW ONLY of the three crews I have seen in the baggage hall with me ALL have used it and they have been the ONLY ones using it.

Calm down a bit, twiggs is doing a great job to try and explain whats going on!

[A Comfy Chair]

The Express Lane through Quarantine is only available to crew who have nothing to declare, or have been "stamped" by roaming Quarantine officials walking through the baggage hall.

Note we have been expressly told that we are under no circumstances to approach these roaming staff... they have to approach us (if they want to).

So, the choice is to join the hour long queue, or get a few crew together and stand somewhere in the officials field of vision and look tired so they hopefully come and stamp you.

Pretty pathetic really.

[packrat]

Both E-passport and Smartgate are INOP and have been for over a month.
Today..01/02/2009 it took 45 mins to clear immigation and another 50 mins to clear customs.
This on top of a 17.45 hour Tour of duty
Sydney Sux !!!!

[jungle juice]

I can tell you although the lane is not CREW ONLY of the three crews I have seen in the baggage hall with me ALL have used it and they have been the ONLY ones using it.
Calm down a bit, twiggs is doing a great job to try and explain whats going on!
Nothing to calm down about as I'm already calm although twiggs is doing her best to confuse the issue.There is no lane marked for crew only and twiggs refused to acknowledge that.

Your info is interesting in that you are saying that you had enough time to stand around inside the customs hall and watch 3 separate entire crews use the express lane!
Not only that but that they were the only ones including all the passengers to use it!
It does not sound like a very efficient idea if no passengers are using it.If this continues,the trial will not go for very long.
The other problem is that some crew if not the majority have something to declare.It might only be some food or something they have purchased OS.
That means they will be in the normal time consuming line and this is the whole idea of the thread.

This is why this thread is about getting a dedicated crew channel to clear customs and AQIS.

Not so we can use a lane for travellers who do not have anything to declare.

If AQIS and customs let crew through IF they don't have anything to declare then it is only a matter of time before some crew think it's a great idea to avoid paying duty or being checked.
when sooner or later one is caught then we are back to square one and crew are not allowed to use the express lane.

The only way to solve this is to have a dedicated crew lane to clear customs and AQIS.

[lowerlobe]

I have not flown for a while now and have not gone through Sydney since taking VR and so I don't know what is happening in Sydney...

But there seems to be some conflicting information about a crew channel..
Sydney with the dedicated lane for crew with nothing to declare. Even if you have something to declare and you get a green stamp you are straight out anyway.
Is there a channel or lane specifically for crew (meaning operating crew not paxing crew or passengers) to clear quarantine & customs in Sydney?

Or

Is it a trial for a lane for those pax who do not have anything to declare and if you're operating crew and have nothing to declare you can use this express lane as well?
The Express Lane through Quarantine is only available to crew who have nothing to declare, or have been "stamped" by roaming Quarantine officials walking through the baggage hall.
Anyone care to clear this up?

[mcgrath50]

Sorry Juice, you misunderstood my post.

The lane I am describing is open to the same people who can use the 'special lane' at customs, (ASEAN people, D Passport holders and crew).

I flew international on two occasions on one of those occasions another flight had arrived at the same time so thats where the three crews come from.

I am not sure if the crew had things to declare, there was a machine there from what I remember and they all left very quickly.

I'd say this is good enough (without being a crew member), its going to have the same number of people at the customs desks which you seem happy about.

Just my observations.

[packrat]

The machines..passport biometric readers... have been out of use for a month.
All international crews clear immigation in the Q adjacent to these machines.
Also in these Qs are pax who require special assistance...those in wheelchairs,the aged and infirmed and unaccompanied minors.
Arrive in Sydney at between 0630 and 0900 and that Q can extend back to and beyond the rear glass partition of the immigration area.
No reason has been put forward as to why the biometric readers are Inop.
The speed and efficiency of these readers also makes the adjacent Q much shorter as they allow Australian based crew quicker ingress.
The Express Lane for pax Customs clearance has several conditions attached to its use...no food and nothing of Customs and Quarantine significance.It also applies to Premium Frequent Flyer Categories only.
Crew using this Q must adhere to the same criteria as the pax.
Even then pax and crew baggage from this Q may be subject to quarantine scans.
On a good day with the bimetric readers both working and using the Express Line it can still take half an hour.
On a bad day it can take two hours if the readers are down and you need to declare an itme of food or something of Quarantine significance such as orchids from SIN or a wooden frame from BKK.
Factor in the collection of hold checked luggage...well... you get the picture

[surfside6]

Qantas allows 40 mins for Immigration and Customs clearance.
About time they bumped it up to an hour.
Either that or they introduce pre clearance whereby crew are able to submit details from the port preceding arrival into Sydney(or Australia in general).
This could be facilitated by registration online through the Dept of Immigation and AQUIS
A small admin charge could apply.This is the 21st Century surely it couldnt be that hard.
Oh...but wait...we are talking about Australia where the public service still thinks its 1926...or is that 1826?

[mcgrath50]

I retract my statement then if what Packrat said is true. Utter bull****.

[DEFCON4]

Your connections with Customs and Quarantine appear to serve you well.
Your description of Qantas Crew is appropriate for 1978.
The allowances for both pax and crew have changed significantly over the last two years.
Many of the items you enumerated are cheaper now in Australia.
Any way its all irrelevant.
The clearance procedures have been explained and they are grossly ineffective and unfair.
Like another poster here I am going to start taking naps in the Customs Hall until they sort this crap out.
NB Twiggs has been known to be a little confused.

[twiggs]

It is true that Smartgate has been inoperative in Sydney for a few weeks.
I believe it is just a temporary situation until the upgrading to the next version of Smartgate is introduced to Sydney, as has already been implemented in BNE and MEL.
Yes there have been some delays at passport control while this is being sorted.
Big deal! It will be running again in a few weeks.

This has not affected the express lane for quarantine.
I have found it to provide myself and others on my crew with a very quick exit from the arrivals hall in Sydney over the past few months, even when I have had declared items thanks to a green stamp from the roving AQIS staff.

[Ken Borough]

How many of the complainants here are people with ASIC cards who are PPLs, morons and arrive as commercial pax who then try to use dedicated crew lanes? Now, before the critics jump in, there are poeple who do this - they have boasted about it in other forums. (A quick search will probly lead you to these posts.)

[ACMS]

They could certainly try but they would need to be on the company issued GD.

[farrari]

I rang Mac Airports today and was told they totally agree with the need for a dedicated crew lane for both C and Q, and have conveyed this strongly to the Fed Gov, but it is the Feds area of responsibility. So if you want things to change you need to talk to the Fed Minister for Transport. Who has his number!

[Ka.Boom]

Now we are getting somewhere.
Twiggs:"my crew" indicates you are a CSM and most likely spend most of your time at the BOS desk.
Hence your defense of the indefensible.
Try getting out a bit more
Time of arrival also determines the length of time it takes to clear both Immigration and Customs.
You appear to arrive into Sydney at times when the number of arriving aircraft is low.
Try arriving at peak times:0600 to 0900.
It ain't pretty

[blueloo]

twiggs: what planet are you on? you appear to have some sort of tunnel vision, or are detached from reality.

[surfside6]

Minister for Infrastructure, Transport Regional Development and Local Government
Contacts
Parliament House Contact
PO Box 6022
Parliament House
Canberra ACT 2600

Tel: (02) 6277 7680
Fax: (02) 6273 4126

Electorate Office Contact:

Location/Postal Address:
334A Marrickville Road
Marrickville NSW 2204

Tel: (02) 9564 3588
Fax: (02) 9564 1734

Email:[email protected]

[email protected]

[jungle juice]

It's important to get both the FAAA and AIPA in on this as well.Although I don't know how much help we would get from the company on this matter.They would or should be asking the minister on our behalf but don't bet on it.
also it would not hurt to approach your local MP and express your viewpoint.

The passport control is not the issue so don't get distracted by it.
It is annoying to get caught up there and when you are looking down at the lines snaking around the customs hall but the machine will get fixed sooner or later .

It's a dedicated crew channel to clear Customs and AQIS at every Australian airport that we need not one that we can share with passengers.

[mach2male]

Unfortunately most AQUIS personnel consider crew to be "up themselves" and treat them accordingly with contempt.
Without wishing to be elitist most AQUIS employees fall into a particular demogaphic.

[farrari]

Ok, rang the Ministers office and spoke to Mr Sacks who told me he looks after this area. He then went on to ask me what did they do at Sydney, Melb and OS. I told him most places OS have a deicated lane for both C and Q.He said he would look in to it and agreed with me that crew should have such lanes. I have ask him to ring me back when he has looked into it and I will certainly keep on it. I would suggest others ring him as well if you want change! :\

[Worrals in the wilds]

He then went on to ask me what did they do

So he didn't know? :\ Why does that not surprise me...

Well done for being proactive, farrari. Expect a run-around and lotsa duck-shoving, best of luck.

mach2male,

most AQUIS personnel consider crew to be "up themselves"
With a certain amount of justification, too. SOME crew (note that I didn't generalise) are revolting, and would still be revolting if provided with their own door, blanket clearance and a key to the airport.

AQUIS employees fall into a particular demogaphic.
Yes they do, until the Foot and Mouth threat in 2001 all AQIS employees were required to hold a university degree in a relevant discipline. Many officers still do, a number have Honours degrees or doctrates. Does that apply to cabin crew?

The strong bogan element in AQIS (note spelling, it's U-less like QANTAS) has nothing to do with their intelligence or demographic, whatever that may mean. Much of their indifference is because they are short staffed and demotivated, which is the quickest way to achieve a group wide lousy attitude.

This seems to have happened to (a certain) airline's staff too.

[blackguard]

The blokes on the ground would be lucky to have a school certicate let alone a Uni degree.Those that do have Uni Degrees made an absolute mess of the Equine Flu episode.
Watched one bloke yesterday snap his fingers at a Chinese National to get him to switch his phone off.Poor Chinese guy spoke no English and certainly didnt understand the snapping of fingers.So AQIS guy rips into him in English.
Welcome to Australia Mr Chinaman.
As for Cabin Crew having degrees and doctorates the answer is a resounding Yes.
Worrals in the Wild you have just displayed your ignorance in a very public forum...Congratulations

[Worrals in the wilds]

As for Cabin Crew have degrees and doctorates the answer is a resounding Yes


I don't doubt that many crew do, but the last time I looked at the various recruitment sites it wasn't an employment requirement. In recent times the requirement has been dropped from the AQIS application process as well, since they needed to increase their numbers quickly when F&M threatened. I was not intending to suggest that Crew were stupid, and apologies if that was the impression that I gave.

However, it is equally unfair to suggest that AQIS officers are all stupid, or any occupation you care to name. Cabin crew fought long and hard for well deserved recognition of the importance of their job (versus the 'trolley dolly' image that dragged on for too long) and I believe you should extend the same courtesy to other occupations and not generalize.

As for the inter-cultural exchange you witnessed, this was sadly all too common when I was hanging out in baggage halls (and I spent some serious time there, whatever jibes you want to make about my ignorance). However, as some of the most culturally ignorant, rude and obnoxious individuals I have met have been lawyers and doctors (supposedly the academic cream of our society) I don't think your correlation between good people skills and intelligence is valid.

I have always believed that AQIS need to spend some serious time and money on training their officers in inter-cultural awareness and basic customer service skills, as this is something many of their staff are lacking. This would make the whole process a lot more pleasant for everyone (pax, crew, officers) and probably speed it up considerably. However, IIRCthe organization doesn't see it as a priority, and basically believes that as long as their officers remove and examine organic imports, that's all that matters.

It's been a couple of years since I discussed entry requirements with anyone from AQIS, but my statement was true at least until 2007 or so. If someone else can tell me about more recent developments (without slagging me off) I'm happy to retract the assertion!

If you are encountering grunty people you may be interacting with the green shirted X-ray loaders that are employed by AQIS. They are manual labourers (whatever that requires) and not AQIS inspectors, any more than aircraft cleaners are cabin crew.

[blackguard]

The last 5 years QF has dropped its standard for CC recruits enormously.Prior to that many applicants had degrees and many have done them since beginning flying.
Having a degree was never a requirement having a higher school certificate was
Allow some credibility for knowing the difference between AQIS officers and the guys who load the belt for the scanner.
Many of the Immigation and AQIS officers at Sydney airport posess a vocab of less than a hundred words all of which are one syllable.
The biometric readers meant not having to deal with them.
Quarantine screening of crew requires one scanner loaded by the crew themselves and one operator.
Worrals noticed you edited post 91 to remove the assertion that made you look foolish.Well done

[blackguard]

Spelling and intelligence are mutually exclusive.
Just a reminder this is about a crew channel and not a tedious spelling lesson.
Appears Twiggs has removed the offending post

[Worrals in the wilds]

complaints and compliments form (http://www.customs.gov.au/site/page.cfm?u=4485)

Compliments and Complaints form - DAFF (http://www.daffa.gov.au/aqis/about/contact/compliments-complaints/form)

These are links to the Customs and AQIS complaints forms. The standard Canberra response to any suggestions from people on the ground about how to improve the service was "well, we haven't received any complaint forms" so filling these in may make a difference.
Or maybe not.


Allow some credibility for knowing the difference between AQIS officers and the guys who load the belt for the scanner.

There has been continuous confusion through this thread (not from you) about who does what in the clearance process. I wasn't sure if this applied to your experiences, and I know some of the greenshirts used to give the impression they were more integral to the process than they actually were. Even many people who work in the terminals have a very fuzzy idea about the roles of ACS, AQIS and DIMIA, which is not surprising as they all do each other's jobs to a certain extent. This cross contamination also makes it very difficult to achieve anything in regard to clearance, as each agency has to agree on a process.

Quarantine screening of crew requires one scanner loaded by the crew themselves and one operator
The only problem with that is that while you (and any reasonable person) would be happy to load their own stuff in the interests of speed and efficiency, someone (or someone's company) would undoubtedly complain and demand loaders. I know this contradicts my previous post, but I've thought more about it.

I still think AQIS /ACS/ DIRTARS would provide crew processing if they were lobbied effectively. Particularly from the fatigue angle.

[blackguard]

You are one suspects a Federal Copper
Solution...dont load your own bags?
Dont use the facility..simple
Worrals good to see that you have the ability to re evaluate.
Not apologize but re evaluate.

[Worrals in the wilds]

Negative, just like the image :E:suspect:
Darn, another accidental discharge :}

[blackguard]

Would be great if a thread and a cogent and reasoned discussion actually achieved something.
If the crew line did eventuate it could be called the "PPrune Line"
You could proceed through faster than a PPRune through a colon.
Sorry..its late or early.... not sure which

[Worrals in the wilds]

Absolutely. Colon is the best way of describing a busy baggage hall :} except the true excrement (hopefully) gets caught.

The only way to achieve something out of the government is to convince them that to not act will achieve loss of votes and/or negative publicity. They're not interested in efficiency or customer service for their own merits.

Caution... beware my possible SIPS (Shiraz induced posting syndrome)

Oops, nearly missed your edit. They would require Policy... ie one procedure for all. It would either have loaders or not. If not, probably no go.

[farrari]

Mr Sacks from the Ministers office rang me back to say he had checked with SYD and they told him there is on the far left, a deicated lane for crew and cetain Govt people. He did acknowledge there that there is not one for Q. The more people that lobby for the latter via his office the better,I think :confused:

[blackguard]

The immigration line is not for the exclusive use of crew and has been mentioned the biometric readers have been out of action for over a month.
Looks like we have a move in the right direction I will be ringing Mr.Sacks today.

[framer]

What would happen if you rang ops on your mobile when you finally got out of customs and said " please ammend my duty time to reflect that I have just finished now at 2234hrs " I used to do it at a smaller airline, I wonder what would happen in a big outfit?

[DutchRoll]

QF have an arbitrary "sign-off" time written into the contract. Duty finishes no later than 30 mins after on blox time.

This sucks - a lot - when you are screwed around on arrival, or when there are crew transport issues. For slips, your only defence is pulling CAO 48.0 para 1.4, but in my first-hand experience the company can get a little sh*tty and can be a bunch of right-royal ar**holes when you do this despite their protestations of being "fully supportive" on fatigue and rest issues etc. This does vary between flight ops and management individuals though.

For turnarounds or int-domestic transfers, you just depart late. Too bad, so sad.

That's certainly how it's been from my point of view anyway. Fellow QFers may have different opinions.

[framer]

yeah I thought that may be the case. Ok then, how about every time you are held up more than 15 mins you submit a SIF or QIR (system improvement form or quality improvement form) or whatever the qantas version is. If enough guys/gals start doing it then the management person who has to explain the number of them at their weekly/monthly safety meeting to the next rung of management, will have to do something. The first month they may be able to talk their way around it but after three or four months of having 20-30 of these things to explain all on the same subject ....something might happen? At the worst case scenario he/she is going to get mighty sick of having to process each and every one of them and will then look more seriously at the issue. Get all three or four of the crew to submit one each and if you have a seperate fatigue form then double up with that one. Paper war basically.
Any chance of that working?

[twiggs]

I agree that it would be nice to have a lane exclusively for crew use, but does anyone think that would ever happen in Australia?
Surely any such lane would always be available for limited use by selected pax, as is the case with the express lane at SIT?
I think that once the SIT express lane trial has finished, we will see the lanes implemented at all international airports, just as they trialled E-passport and smartgate.
Yes, the express lane is only for crew without items to declare or green-stamped declared items, but does anyone think that they can justify having a crew dedicated lane for declared items when it is purely personal choice to bring in items needing to be assessed by AQIS eg. orchids from Singapore, and not a requirement of your job?

[blueloo]

it really cant be that hard twiggs.... start off with a separate channel for crew - hand the government employee your form - he looks at it - nothing to declare / or green stamped - go straight out - something to declare/random search/xray - join the next AQIS line - which is also a separate crew line/raceway which mergers at the front of a normal passenger line. AQIS officer finishes dealing with current person - sees the crew - deals with the crew - then goes back to pax (in the meantime pax can be redirected to other AQIS staff) ....very simple no need for extra staff.

It really isn't terribly hard. Just takes someone to plan the appropriate laneways.

[twiggs]

I agree it shouldn't be hard, but again, we are talking about Australia.
For all we know blueloo, something like you suggest maybe in the pipeline for the full implementation of the express lane.
The restriction for no declared items maybe just for the trial.

[blueloo]

Oh and the other the other thing that pees me off a bit:

twiggs: but does anyone think that they can justify having a crew dedicated lane for declared items when it is purely personal choice to bring in items needing to be assessed by AQIS, and not a requirement of your job?

You are right twiggs - it isn't a requirement of the job - this is a personal choice people make. However - as crew tend to spend most of their time overseas/away from home - some take the opportunity to do some of their shopping - be it food or clothing or electronics oveseas. It tends to mean more time at home, and less time at a shopping center catching up on all the stuff normal 9-5 workers/weekends off/generally more home time people - take for granted.

Just because you are overseas, doesn't mean you can't put your slip time to use, so you have more time at home. Time at home is pretty important to most crew.

[twiggs]

You will get no argument from me about that blueloo, but my point was about justifying it to the people who make such decisions and don't fly and hence don't share the same understanding.

[jungle juice]

Originally posted by twiggsbut does anyone think that would ever happen in Australia?
Yes it once was ms twiggs.Crew did have their own lane to clear customs once they had collected their bags.
Surely any such lane would always be available for limited use by selected pax, as is the case with the express lane at SIT?
Surely it was not ms twiggs.it was purely for operating crew not commercial passengers or paxing crew.

would you like to try again?
why ms twiggs when it comes to crew issues is your sentiment almost always "why should it be done".
I have read many of your posts and they almost always seem to be in favour of management or the establishment.
WHY?

[twiggs]

The flaw in your logic jungle juice is that whilst in the distant past there may have been a dedicated crew lane, also in the past there were separate green and red channels for pax.
A lot has changed over the years and now we have almost 100% X-raying and no green channel for pax at all, except for the recently introduced express lane.

[jungle juice]

Once again Ms twiggs you entire approach in your posts can be summed up with the phrase "why should it be done" or "why should the company or the establishment go and change anything for crew".
In doing so you almost always support the company viewpoint or that of the establishment in trying to prevent crew from improving their work conditions.
This can be shown with your posts.
but does anyone think that would ever happen in Australia?
Surely any such lane would always be available for limited use by selected pax, as is the case with the express lane at SIT?
I'm struggling to think of somewhere else in the world that there is a dedicated lane for crew to clear customs/quarantine.
In another example which I cannot remember your exact words but it was something like you claiming that some airline would not have to provide crew rest seats when they had perfectly good jump seats.
You later said you were only being sarcastic but it seems to fit a trend with you.
Your posts also show how much you contradict yourself.
no green channel for pax at all, except for the recently introduced express lane.
So there was a green channel which was basically an express channel and now you admit there is once again an express channel.
Ms Twiggs,have you ever heard of the saying "the more things change the more they stay the same"?
The only flaw is not in my argument but your mind.
There was a dedicated crew channel for crew to clear customs and quarantine.
Yes there has always been quarantine twiggs with people checking crew bags not just machines to look through our bags.
So, if there was once an express lane for passengers and there is once again why can't there be a dedicated lane for airline crew once again?
originally posted by Ms Twiggsespecially Sydney with the dedicated lane for crew with nothing to declare.
No Ms Twiggs,it is not a dedicated lane for crew it is an express lane which in it's trial allows for both crew and passengers to use if they have nothing to declare.
This is not a dedicated crew lane is it?

This is not meant to be a personal attack on you ms Twiggs but the question is if you really are a crew member,why do you not support a lane specifically for crew.
You are the only person purporting to be L/H crew I have ever heard speak against it.
it isn't a requirement of the job - this is a personal choice people make.
ms twiggs is wrong again,it is a requirement of our job that crew avail themselves to the scrutiny of immigration,customs & quarantine at each and every airport that we go through before entering a country.
Even if we have nothing to declare and the local officials choose to search us and ask any questions pertinent to their enquiries then we must do so.

If this happened at other airports outside of Australia and crew were held up for an inordinate amount of time the company would seek answers but it does not seem the case in Australia.

[DEFCON4]

All aircraft returning to Australia are not as on time departure critical as they are in foreign transit ports.
Qantas indeed would be concerned if crew were held up in foreign ports as it would effect scheduled departures from these ports.
Sydney in particular is a terminating port with crew returning to home base.
The company therefore cares not one jot how long it takes crew to clear Customs and Immigration..their duty is finished.
Blocks plus 40 is insufficient.It should be more like an hour 10mins

[Wiley]

QF have an arbitrary "sign-off" time written into the contract. Duty finishes no later than 30 mins after on blox time.At EK, (and I'm pretty sure, CX), duty finishes the moment the fuel switches go to cut off. The tech log then magically writes itself, aircraft then magically secures itself and the pax deplane while the crew are "off duty". (This has allowed the companies to extend planned Max Flight Duty Period by 30 minutes 'for free' - and still we operate a number of daily flights under a 'variation', allowing an extension of another 30 minutes.)

The crew rest period then starts 30 minutes later - usually when the crew hasn't even started running the gauntlet of immigration / quarantine / baggage pickup and transport to the hotel, (where nine times out of ten, their rooms aren't ready because the company has a 'hot bed' contract with the hotel, and housekeping are still cleaning the same rooms that were occuppied 30 minutes earlier by the outgoing crew).

Back to what started this thread: Brisbane. I urge everyone affected to contact Mr Sachs to beg him to get a dedicated crew lane in place in Brisbane.

I must say that at Sydney on my last few visits, the roaming AQIS people have been very forthcoming in clearing the crew while we waited at the baggage carousels. We all love to 'bag' the Australian authorities, but in this case, ten out of ten in my book to the Sydney AQIS people.

[jungle juice]

Wiley,I agree that Brisbane has more of a problem with this than Sydney but it's still an issue at Sydney.
If this is to be done it has to be done at all Australian international airports.At those airports with small customs halls and resources then at least the recognition of the problem should be looked at.In these airports AQIS and customs staff can look at crew and move them to a point where they don't join a seemingly never ending line.
Until there is a dedicated lane for crew we will still be at the whim of whoever is on duty and if they are in a good mood.

[surfside6]

A dedicated Crew Line should be available at all Australian International terminals.
While Sydney no doubt has the volume all crew at some point use all the other terminals
The preceding TOD can be just as fatiguing into these ports.eg.NRT/PER

[Little_Red_Hat]

With regard to sign-off times...

I assume you are talking from a flight crew perspective when you say that it's written into your contract?? Because I do know that for the CC, if we are delayed for a period of time for whatever reason (doing work for the company that is) such as awaiting wheelchairs, handing over unmet unaccompanied minors etc, that the CSM may put in an altered sign-off request stating the time we actually signed off and the reason for the delay. On all the occasions that this has been submitted on one of my trips it's been paid to the revised s/off time.

Is there such a provision for you guys?

I agree, that waiting around in Customs/Quarantine for an hour and half after a long TOD when you are only being paid 40mins is the pits!! But can it be helped, I guess there is no way to amend this without the company saying 'oh but you all stopped to buy duty free didn't you?!' :E

[qfcabin]

The dedicated crew only customs line at SYD did exist, probably through till mid 80s as I remember.
But don't think it made things a whole lot easier.
At that time, it seemed every customs guy with a chip about CC was rostered to that lane. It was almost 100% full bag search...every bag!
And we paid duty on EVERYTHING they could find. It was not unusual to be charged even a couple of bucks. All receipts written by hand by a separate officer ..another queue after the search.
Sometimes it may be careful what you wish for.
Regardless, keep up the good fight!

[blackguard]

Things have changed somewhat over the last few years regarding crew duty free allowances.
Duty Free is now pretty much a joke particularly at SYD Airport.Champagne,retail,in Japan is cheaper than Australian Duty Free.Even allowing for the XChange rate.
Paying Duty in many cases is hardly worth paper work.Most Crew are clued up as to what they can and cant buy.They are very aware of the relative cost.
Arent too many stupid enough to bring anything in that is dutiable.
Yes,Yes...I know there is always one or two.
A rew line is very desirable nad everyone should ring Mr. Sacks.
It would slso be appropriate to keep AIPA and the FAAA in the loop.

[obira]

I'm not sure why this figure of blocks plus 40 keeps getting repeated. Sign-off is blocks plus 30 for cabin crew - look at any pattern on your roster.

While it is possible to submit an ican for a delay due to awaiting wheelchairs etc the company does not hold to the argument that waiting in a snaking queue for quarantine is 'doing work for the company' and an ican saying that you were delayed clearing quarantine does not result in an alteration to sign-off time.

obira

[roamingwolf]

boys and Girls,Thats why we want a customs line for crew and not to share with the self loading freight.
has anyone else been sitting in the hotel or coffee shop and seen passengers from your last flight.The look on their faces says it all.
"Look Harry there are the crew from our plane and they stay and eat at a hotel"
What do they expect us to do put a tent on the side of the runway until our next job or do they expect us to turn around and fly straight back home.
Most of them don't give a rats @&$! about what happens to us so I don't want to line up with them as if weve been sitting down and drank booze and watched movies all night.
By the way twiggs I don't want a customs line that the slf use it's time to get our own customs line.Thats a line with a sign on it saying crew only.it's not like I'm asking for more money or less hours.All I want is to go home when I've finished work not sit around for an hour.
If the same thing went on at QCC they would riot.

[DutchRoll]

Little Red Hat,

Yes you are correct that this applies to QF tech crew. AFAIK there is no provision for extending sign off times. I've seen this argument raise its head previously and some management types pretty much said "forget it". It's 30 minutes, then you're magically in "crew rest". The company couldn't care less how long everything else takes, or even if you're still doing stuff in the cockpit at that point. But believe me, as a result we get pretty efficient at packing up and bolting!

The only bullet-proof fallback is invoking CAO48 due to inadequate rest. There is absolutely nothing they can do if you pull that one (otherwise they've breached Civil Aviation Regs and open a can of worms), except get angry and try to shaft you as best they can with duty hours the next day. Naturally none of this applies if it's the last sector of a trip.

[framer]

Ok then, how about every time you are held up more than 15 mins you submit a SIF or QIR (system improvement form or quality improvement form) or whatever the qantas version is. If enough guys/gals start doing it then the management person who has to explain the number of them at their weekly/monthly safety meeting to the next rung of management, will have to do something.
Bad idea???
How about you fill in said form in the cruise prior to reaching SY and leave a couple of blank spaces for the exact times. Then it will take you only one minute to complete as you leave customs. If enough of you fire them off it will have the desired effect.....or am i dreaming?

[lowerlobe]

This thread has become an endless loop.....

The bottom line is that crew have worked through the flight however long that has been and should be entitled to a system which recognizes that.

To have to join the throng that is like some conga line waiting to clear customs is a joke.It also does not recognise that crew especially after a long flight have to drive home and are undoubtedly affected by fatigue.

This then becomes a safety issue and not just one of frustration.

[Captain Dart]

.....also some of us do not work for QF but are subject to short layovers in Australia and are flying out again to our overseas bases 'soonest'.

If dedicated crew channels is a budgetary problem I hereby volunteer to go to Officeworks, purchase materials and make up a few 'Priority for Crew' signs for AQIS. These are widely used in the rest of the world.

Arriving in MEL in the early mornings, especially if caught behind the other international arrivals is not a pleasant experience for pax or crew. Getting from the baggage carousels to the AQIS checking area is a zoo, the staff can be rude, the 'green stamp' is by no means assured, and the length of time it can take to get from Customs to the crew transport, especially after being awake most of the night, is a disgrace.

[blackguard]

How many have made the call.?
We have an opportunity to make this work.
So make the call

[farrari]

I will say it again, the only way to make changes is to do something, so ring Mr Sacks and tell him.

[blackguard]

Two months have passed since this discussion.Has anybody had any feedback from the relevant government.Has anybody indeed called the Dept.Nothing is going to change unless we are proactive

[ditch handle]

It wasn't all that long ago that crew bags did come off first in SYD.

Frequent flyers complained to QF management about this "affront" and the policy was changed.

Now we wait.......

[lowerlobe]

ditch handle is right and it was a well known woman who made that decision....

I was never totally convinced there was an actual complaint made by some over egotistical passengers instead that it was just another attempt by the office to annoy us....

So I made the suggestion that if say passengers bags were coming up on belt A then crew bags would come up on another belt far enough away so the said passengers would not see them....

I think you could imagine the answer....thats why I was never convinced that there were any real complaints from passengers...

[blackguard]

Who made a call?
Like so much commentary,criticism on PPrune its followed by very little action.Everyone has a whinge but nobody does anything.
Yes I made a call and I am about to make another.
C'mon help out here

[324906]

Even though it is not signposted for crew use, in Brisbane I have been told by an AQIS inspector that the express lane IS for crew use as well as those pax wih an express card. This takes you to the head of the queue, where you are directed out (if green stamped) or to the xray or inspection tables as appropriate. Some years ago I asked the government powers that be in BNE if a crew lane could be established for the purpose that the express lane is now, it seems, available for, but after several pages of waffle was informed that to do so would require 'a major policy change'!

The responder seemed to think that my suggestion was that crew bypass all quarantine checks. When I wrote back to clarify my suggestion I received no reply.

I frequently operate into and out of BNE, and have had very few problems with either the passport control people or AQIS, and 9 times out of 10, have had the green stamp within 5 yards of exiting the passport check.

As to crew bags of first, last or in the middle - that surely is an airline broblem - not the airport authority.

What the airport may be responsible for is the last minute - one bag not screened, we need it back before you can go - and that inevitably happens at about the time the last door is closed.

[twiggs]

Blackguard,
this has already been done to death, but as 324906 has pointed out, the express lane is for crew that have nothing to declare or have, but have been green stamped.
(for those that haven't been through Sydney in a while, at the express lane there is a sign which displays the documentation allowed through there. This includes express card, pax arrival card with green stamp, and CREW declaration form-no stamp required)

There always has been a crew lane for passport control, even though it is a bit slow lately due to the late implementation of the latest phase of smartgate.

The only issues that remain are
1: that crew with declared items that don't get a green stamp must be processed with passengers, and
2: checked bags come out with pax bags.

Do you really think anyone gives a rats about crew waiting with pax to get their orchids checked?
(or their duty calculated on the pool filter they purchased in JNB, or whatever else they purchased in Costco)

[lowerlobe]

Originally posted by twiggsthe express lane is for crew that have nothing to declare or have, but have been green stamped.
So is this channel for crew only and not for passengers?...
NO it's not..Twiggs...the express lane is for passengers who have nothing to declare or have been green stamped by AQIS....

Crew may be allowed to use the express lane if they have been cleared to do so but there is no sign stating that it is a specific CREW LANE.....this is the point that is being sidestepped.

I was actually travelling through Sydney last Monday and although I did not see a sign which had the crew form on it it is still not a dedicated crew channel....as twiggs would try to have us believe.
Do you really think anyone gives a rats about crew waiting with pax to get their orchids checked?
Obviously the office doesn't....

But having orchids is not the only reason why crew are looked at and lining up with hundreds of passengers....do crew from LAX,JNB,AKL,etc... have orchids or does every crew member flying in from SIN/BKK or HKG have orchids Twiggs?

Immigration is the first hurdle and the crew channel is a good first step but then it all falls down waiting for your bags....then if you have the temerity as some here believe to have purchased any item(s) then it's your bad luck/fault and you have to deal with it...

Twiggs I take it by your edited post that you have never purchased any items while on a trip because you seem to delight in raising the issue of crew buying goods or is it that you have something against those crew who see something they want to buy overseas!

As I said before this could all be fixed if there was a crew baggage belt so that all crews bags turn up on the same one.I'm sure the passengers have more on their mind than to stand around and watch the other corner of the arrivals hall waiting to see something to complain to QF about.....

This is not about crew purchasing goods and bringing trouble on themselves.

It is about a dedicated crew channel which would mean you don't have to line up with hundreds of passengers who have been sitting down while crew have been working.

All airlines could use this one carousel for crew bags...

[lowerlobe]

Where Are We At?
By the way blackguard....Shouldn't the association be involved with approaching the Minister and other relevant authorities and not just the limited number of people who post on PPrune?

I think from memory it was you who said that the people who posted on PPrune was only a handful of crew....

So the half dozen people here would not have much of an impact...it will and should take the union to make a representation on behalf of it's members to have any positive effect.

Has Pegasus747 posted any comment on this thread?

[tops1]

ICAO Annex 9

"N. Identification and entry of crew and
other aircraft operators’ personnel

3.66 Contracting States shall establish measures, with the
cooperation of aircraft operators and airport operators, to
expedite the inspection of crew members and their baggage, as
required at departure and upon arrival."

Australia has no registered difference to this standard.

[inandout]

So who is responsible for getting crew bags off fast, airport owner, airline or who ever handles the baggage.

[jungle juice]

inandout,ICAO is made up of reps from all countries in aviation so it might be a good idea for someone who represents us (union) to contact ICAO and inquire about this matter.That Annex posted by tops1 is about the airlines and the airports working together to allow crew bags to be identified and removed from aircraft so that crew can retrieve them and expedite the customs and quarantine checks as fast as possible.
Does anyone think that is the case now?
Do you really think anyone gives a rats about crew waiting with pax to get their orchids checked?
(or their duty calculated on the pool filter they purchased in JNB, or whatever else they purchased in Costco)
I think you're wrong Lobey.It's not that the people in the office don't care.
I think there are some people in the office who have always been jealous of what crew can buy while away on trips.These days most things are just as good to buy at home but every now and again you find a bargain or some flowers for the other half and it looks like some that don't fly are jealous.
That's why they won't lift a finger to help.