RAF Kingairs and Mode S transponders

[wotan]

Gents

Regards the fleet of kingair that you guys use for multi training. Are you going to be impacted by the Enhanced Mode S regs being brought in at the end on march this year? Or are they all mode S equipped already?

Does this affect any other fleet?

PM if possible

Cheers in advance

[Chilli Monster]

Most brand new aircraft supplied over the last 4/5 years will have them already fitted. Would be very surprised if the BE200's were 'S' less.

[effects]

Look here
Military Air planes with Mode-S ADS-B (http://www.live-military-mode-s.eu/)
select 'european' on the list on the left and then click UK on the drop down menu, there is some that appear there that might surprise you!!

nb you will have to log in as a guest details are on the log in page, I think it is 'quest' and 'quest'

[Champagne Anyone?]

Since when was mode S compulsory from March 2009??

[Fortyodd2]

Going on past performance I'm surprised that the UK MOD didn't pay extra to have them removed! :rolleyes: Cynical.... Moi?

[wotan]

Enhanced Mode S is now compulasry for all aircraft from March 31st. This has been coming down the tracks for the last few years. You can check out the details on the eurocontrol website. Most transport type a/c such as kingair, tristar, kc-135 AN12 etc require enhanced mode s with the ability to download 8 flight parameters however fighters and training a/c tucano types only require elementary mode s.

I believe its necesary only if they seek to operate in mode S airspace which lets face it is everywhere else other than your military training area.

[Eliteaircare]

I'm sure Mode S comes in around 2012 in the UK??:confused:

[Blacksheep]

Enhanced Mode S became mandatory for civil aircraft on 31 March 2005. It becomes mandatory for state owned transport aircraft >5700kg mass that fly in EHS airspace for more than 30 hours per year per airframe on 31 March 2009. Mode S requirements do not apply to 'fighter' 'training' and rotary wing' aircraft.

EHS for State owned aircraft (http://www.eurocontrol.int/mil/gallery/content/public/milgallery/documents/Mode%20S%20-%20Process%20and%20Procedures%20for%20State%20Aircraft%20V11 %20Released%20Issue%20220805%20A4.pdf)

[Wensleydale]

Big date is 1 Jan 12 - I have heard a rumour that mobile IFF interrogators will not be allowed to transmit from this date. This will probably include AEW - not too sure about ships. Apparently the CAA will withdraw radiation authority from this date.

Anybody know if there is (or going to be) a military conops for Mode S once legacy IFF disappears or do we have to wait for Mode 5?

[Eliteaircare]

Blacksheep

Things have changed quite a bit since this document was issued, and as with most things 'aviation' has slipped to the right by 3 years. This document is dated Aug 2005. A lot of 'back-peddling' has happened since.

[Blacksheep]

Ooops, wrong link!

EHS for State owned aircraft (http://www.eurocontrol.int/mil/public/standard_page/cns_sur_modes_sa.html)

The most current page is dated 2007 and nothing has changed since then: the date is 31 March 2009 whichever way you look at it. The info deals with those states that have failed to meet the deadline but either have (a) submitted compliance plans or (b) have not. In the end the results are the same: access to EHS airspace "may be restricted" or the operator may be obliged to re-route.

UK NATS Requirements (http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/aip/current/gen/EG_GEN_1_5_en.pdf)and scroll down to paragraph 5.3, where it is stated that the currently declared UK EHS airpspace is just the London TMA.

On the subject of operating military aircraft in civil controlled airspace, civilians are naturally nervous of military aircraft that cannot use the standard procedures and maintain the customary seperations. I was once the 'flying spanner' in an RAF VIP transport helicopter shortly after leaving RAF Benson on a positioning flight, when we encountered a Harrier crossing our bows in the London TMA, below 500 feet and travelling at what our pilot declared was "warp factor five". An event that, as you may imagine, caused a certain amount of concern among the civilians intending to land on LHR's runway 09L.

At the subsequent inquiry it appeared that he was "temporarily unsure of his position". ;)

[gpn01]

Enhanced Mode S became mandatory for civil aircraft on 31 March 2005.

No it didn't and no it isn't. You don't even need to carry a transponder, let alone have a Mode-S one. If you want to fly in CONTROLLED airspace then that's different. If you're happy to operate in Class-G then you don't even need a radio.