Smoking, here we go again..!

[LadyMatilda]

I know this has been covered only about a million times, so here it goes again.

Is there an international move to ban smoking on flights? I hope so, why a whole aeroplane load of people has to suffer for a handful of inconsiderate schmucks I'll never know! There is no such thing as a non smoking seat on a smoking flight. I'm just waiting for a frequent flyer on one of these smoking airlines to develop some sort of lung related disease.... lawyers will have a field day!
I know that at the end of the day it all boils down to the individual company and country's regulating authority, but surely something can be done to stop smoking on aeroplanes worldwide?

If the night flights don't kill me, the smoke surely will!

[exeng]

Lady Matilda,

Your comment, <I'm just waiting for a frequent flyer on one of these smoking airlines to develop some sort of lung related disease.... lawyers will have a field day!>

Just how do you propose that these fine lawyers go ahead and prove that the pax lung desease was caused by other pax smoking on a flight? It may, for instance, have been caused by particulate pollution emitted by your car or mine.

I'm just off to my shed for a smoke!


Regards
Exeng

[LadyMatilda]

Or.......

it may not!

---------------------------
Good luck with the breathing apparatus

[This message has been edited by LadyMatilda (edited 20 November 2000).]

[This message has been edited by LadyMatilda (edited 20 November 2000).]

[Lawyerboy]

Exeng - as an aside, bare in mind that in a civil trial you don't have to prove anything beyond a reasonable doubt; on the balance of probabilities will do nicely, thank you.

[exeng]

Dear Lawerboy,

I'm just back from my shed and I note your interesting comment. But what do you think the chances really are of demonstating, with regard to the balance of probabilities, that the lung desease was more likely to have been caused by a frequent fliers exposure to cigarette smoke on an A/C as opposed to all the other airborne pollutants we are continually exposed to?

Has this yet been tested in court?


Regards
Exeng

[Lawyerboy]

As far as I'm aware this hasn't seen the inside of a courtroom yet (if I'm wrong no doubt someone will pipe up, no pun intended).

I don't know, is the honest answer. I would have thought, using common sense alone, that if you spend a large portion of your life cooped up in a metal tube breathing fairly recycled air which happens to be full of carcenogenic contaminants you're more likely to suffer a related disease than if you don't, all other nasties in everyday air notwithstanding.

We all breathe in stuff that does us no good, but the problem that airlines face in any potential litigation is that it all sounds far too plausible; smoke in a cabin is all too obvious and pervasive. Never mind that the very same frequent flyer probably also goes to a pub in London two or three times a week, for much the same time as he'd spend in flight, and inhales just as much. You can walk out of a pub - it's a bit harder to do that at 30,000ft, and that fact together with the fact that most people still regard flying as the work of the devil, means that I think you'd have a fair chance in court, particularly in America.

Incidentally, am I correct in remembering Iberia as having a particularly novel approach to separating smokers from non-smokers? Smokers on the left hand side of aisle, non-smokers down the right.....?

[JuniorJetClubber]

As this topic has appeared in Aircrew Notices, I thought I might point out that this week's New Scientist has highlighted an interesting approach to this problem.

Quote: GOOD to see that Virgin Atlantic is taking a tough line on aircraft vandalism. On a flight from London to San Francisco recently, the flight attendant waited until the plane had reached cruising altitude before announcing over the PA system:

"This is a non-smoking flight. The toilets are all fitted with smoke alarms. It is a criminal offence to tamper with them. Anyone caught tampering with the toilet smoke alarms will be forced to leave the flight immediately."
http://www.newscientist.co.uk/feedback/

[mriya225]

Lady Matilda,
A few words for you from my favorite comedian, the late Bill Hicks:

- ON NON-SMOKERS -
"You obnoxious , self-righteous, whining little f@cks. My biggest fear is that if I quit smoking, I'll become on of you... I have something to tell you non-smokers that I know for a fact that you don't know, and I delight in sharing information with my brothers at all times. Ready?.......(He lights a cigarette) "Non-smokers die, everyday... See, I know you entertain this eternal life fantasy because you've chosen not to smoke, but let me be the 1st to POP that bubble and bring you hurtling back to reality.... You die too. Hehehahaa--Sleep tight!" http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gif


Lighten up!


------------------
Un diva très doué.



[This message has been edited by mriya225 (edited 21 November 2000).]

[Slasher]

I used to smoke (only now and then Ill have one at the bar). When I traveled once on a long-haul smoking flight I was hounded by this bloodey wowser behing me who kept telling me rudely to stop smoking because he didnt like it, youll die of cancer, blah blah blah. I asked him "If this was a non-smoking flight buddy and it was up to you, would you let me just have a ciggy or two to ease my jitters?" Answer "Of course not!"
So I just said "Well then asshole it works BOTH ways!"

PS Matilda I take it a post-sex cigarette is one simple but exquisite pleasure youve never known? http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gif

[Slasher]

Mriya225 that wouldve been a good comeback, but the steam was taken out of it by you discribing Mr Bill Hicks as "the late"!

[Azure]

I am a smoker, however; I do not smoke on flights, in dining establishments, or in non-smokers households. I DO object to people giving me a glare when I smoke outside, in a parking lot filled with gas guzzling vehicles producing more harm to their lungs than my tiny wiff of smoke!

BUT...having tried to quit many a time, I realize as a non smoker that you can really smell and inhale cigarette smoke from a great distance. Which is probably why I have a hard time trying to quit! No one should be subjected to offensive smells.

And on that subject, I suggest that all PERFUME, especially Ralph Lauren's (sp) be totally banned on all flights! I spent the most agonizing hour of my life next to a person whom I'm sure never showered, only to find out a lot of men wear that certain cologne. To me, it STINKS!

I grew up on a farm, I can handle almost anything when it comes to stink...but not that indiscibable smell of what ever it was posing as cologne.

And this goes for ladies too! I've tried a few perfumes where I hated myself on the drive home, couldn't wait for a shower!


Final answer, ban smoking.

Nicotine patches are available, they work, and it would make life in an enclosed environment better.

But also consider the ban on fragrance as well.

[VnV2178B]

Slash,

Bill Hicks also died -sadly- young (32) of pancreatic cancer but smoking doesn't seem to be a precursor to that particular type.

Vnv...

[ExSimGuy]

ExEng,

You going to the GatBash? If so. please bring your shed and I'll join you in it!

I've managed a 16-hour non-smoking flight from SYD-SFO, but I'm hapier with my flight to UK for the Bash which is Gulf Air ("smoking" - and I'll be in the very last row! ;) )

------------------
---- "Per Ardua ad Mixas" ----
(Through hardship to the bars)

[X-QUORK]

To the smokers lobby:

Are you guys just having fun on this thread, or are you serious about smoking on flights being acceptable ?

If you choose to inhale carcogens that's just fine, don't presume that your fellow passengers feel so flippant about it though.

[mriya225]

Slasher,

It was, in fact, an excellent comeback...

Bill died of pancreatic cancer, a couple of years after he quit smoking.

His point is still profound; we all die...
Now, you may or may not be able to correlate the way you live with the nature of your death, but we're all checking out--one way or another.

------------------
Un diva très doué.

[Flap 5]

It just goes to show - smokers are the most selfish people on this earth

[Velvet]

Actually, I think it goes to show that whether you smoke or not, people who are intolerant are the most selfish.

ExSimGuy - please join me for a drink at the bash, I don't smoke, but I'll stand downwind hon. :)

[Slasher]

Flap 5 nah. Id say habitual farters are.

[exeng]

Dear ExSimGuy,

Sorry but I can't make it this year, maybe next.

I should give up 737's (not fags!) and go to the 'Highlands and Islands' 'cos some of 'em actually fly in 'sheds'!!


Regards
Exeng


Disappears in a cloud of smoke.....

[Dr Jekyll]

One of my colleagues just made a superb comment.

"Having a smoking section on an airliner
is like having a pissing section in a public swimming pool."

Nuff said.

[TrueNorth]

Would you people stop going on about this?

I`ve just quit!

The fewer references to, images of, opinions about or arguments over SMOKING the better. In my opinion. Thanks.

[The Weasel]

Ive never smoked in my life so I dont Know Jack about it....But:Just suppose for a minute that cigarretes had never been invented to date.How many of you smokers,would, individually think up such a silly idea for yourselves without any outside influence? Not so many I bet.It is only so popular because you were born into a world where the habit is 'normal'. You have all been had by the Government who have set up their own equivelent of a drug dealer network. They tempt you with availability so they can get you hooked and then cream off their cut in tax. They tried to make themselves look innocent by banning advertizing some years ago but hey, that was not going to worry their profit margins, they just rely on the suckers that are hopelessly addicted to keep the momentum going for them!
So what about sueing the Governments of the world,not the airlins.Perhaps Lawyerboy could advise. If this idea seems too far fetched then perhaps Ive been getting too much fresh air!
P.S. Lawyerboy, I was wondering if you (or anyone with a flair for Aviation Law) could point me to a definition for 'Airworthy' as this is not specified in JAR 1 definitions section.It's for another topic but I wont go into detail here, in case I get my wrist slapped. Cheers all.

[Ace McCool]

You mean public pools don't have pissing sections???

[eternal_optimist]

I am a smoker. At the moment, I am having another go at quitting, but that is really irrelevent as there is no such thing as an ex-smoker. Only a lucky few *never* go back to the dreaded weed.

Two things, however, totally wind me up:

1) Would all the sanctimonious, holier-than-thou non-smokers who go on and on about how the quality of their lives is destroyed by smokers please bear in mind some of the difficulties we face. Many of us would like to give up - unfortunately, nicotine is several times more addictive than heroin. Consider also, if you can, the emotional and physical distress of being denied a substance to which you are addicted, and which you are accustomed to comsuming at roughly hourly intervals - for ten hours or more. Is it any wonder that the incidence of air-rage is on the increase?

2) Smoking is not illegal. We are breaking no laws by lighting up. If you don't like it, don't bitch at me - bitch at the governments who will do nothing about banning cigs because they cannot afford to lose the tax revenue.

3) The amount of damage done to a non-smoker on a smoking flight to the US must be pretty irrelevant compared to spending 2 hours a day in traffic jams in London, or breathing in the organophosphate fumes leaking from the engines through the air system in a BAe 146 (the vomit-like stench).

When you get down to the bottom line, smoking is bad. Nobody denies that any more. However, it would be nice if we could limit the amount of hysterical witch-hunting that seems so fashionable at the moment. There are plenty more things out there waiting to kill you.

[Mick Loveland]

well said eternal_optimist,
i couldn't agree more!

[Azure]

I agree too with you eternal_optimist.

If every person in the world quit smoking cigs, right now....how much would all governments in the world lose in tax dollars?

[Fubaar]

… about one fifth of what smoking costs those same governments, (or more correctly, us, the taxpayers), in Public Health costs associated with smoking, Azure.

[Round Hill]

Ex Sim Guy - Oops GF went no-smoking October - guess you didn't enjoy that flight as much as you thought you would.

Lady Matilda - don't know why you winge so much when there are so many no-smoking airlines to choose from!

Azure - totally agree. I am a smoker who prefers no-smoking flights - but the body odours seem to have taken over that us smokers have no right to complain about.

Would be nice if spraying perfume, taking off shoes, f**ting, coughing, spitting, vomiting, mobile phones, rudeness, arrogance etc could also be dealt with the same gusto that anti-smoking was!

[Dangrenade]

How many non smokers do you see walking down a busy city street wearing face masks accusing motorists of polluting THEIR airspace. Self righteous gits. The atmosphere belongs to everyone clean or dirty. If you dont smoke, start.. antagonist.

[upgrade]

All people have some habit(some have more than one)that others will find distatsteful or annoying.I can see that smoking can be a bit unpleasant to people who dont smoke but hey,I might have to sit next to someone with an IQ of 90 or an Al Gore voter or some chick who thinks she's lady Helena Bonham-Carter.I dont winge..Life isnt perfect

[OO-AOG]

What is unacceptable is to have no-smoking airports, IAD as an example. No smoking corner while you're in transit between 2 long hauls!. Shame on them.

[MileHi]

Eternal,

Great to hear you're trying to quit, but as for the rest, what a crock of SH!T.

It really breaks my heart to hear that you might have to sit a confined aluminium tube for 10 hours without a smoke. Blah, blah, whine, whine I only think of myself and F@CK the world around me! http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif

Get a life, the airline industry is going non-smoking, if you can't hack it - travel to the US by boat!

Air rage, nothing a pair of handcuffs can't fix! Oh, and imagine being in that London traffic with a ciggy dangling from your lips - now that really WILL kill you.

[This message has been edited by MileHi (edited 18 December 2000).]

[mriya225]

Well,
I suppose everybody must have some kind of a vice; some drink, some bonk, some smoke and some opt to soothe the beast within with healthy doses of self-righteous bullsh$t.
Whatever get's you through the day, I guess....

Anybody got a light? :)

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Un diva très doué.