PDA

View Full Version : Going commercial, What path to take?


tsubasa27
26th Jan 2009, 01:16
Hello and happy Australia day everyone!

I'm currently 21, finished an IT degree and working part time, got my GFPT which I've had for quite a while, currently about half-way through my PPL navs. I've decided to chase the dream and get my CPL. Though I'm certainly interested in many aspects of GA flying, I think the pay, (relative) security and seeing the world with the airlines is currently where my long-term goal is at. I understand getting there won't be easy of course...

Last year I went up to Sydney last year to go through all the tests, medicals and interviews for the Qantas cadetship, but didn't make the final cut. Applied for REX too but never heard anything back, I think I might have missed their intake. I have a class 1 just fine, but my eyes aren't eligible for laser surgery instead of contacts/glasses so the military isn't an option as far as I understand.

This year I've gotten offers from Swinburne and RMIT for their courses.

Option 1: Do the Swinburne Diploma course

This was the option that I'd settled on under the assumption FEE-HELP would be available as described, it's up to ~30% more expensive for what you get compared to a typical flying school program, but at least with FEE-HELP you only need to worry about repaying it very slowly and interest free once you've found a decent paying job. However now that it's off (and no confirmation when and if it ever will be available) I need to really reconsider all my options.

From what I've seen staff at GFS Moorabbin and Swinburne have been very helpful. I've also heard graduates saying great things about the quality of the training. I guess Qantas use them for a reason.

Financially I'd certainly need a loan to get through all the training without FEE-HELP, but at least the uni hours are fairly reasonable so I could continue working part-time/casual. The Advanced Diploma consists of CPL+ATPL theory, and the option of doing a regular instrument rating, MECIR or Instructor rating over two years. Probably looking at MECIR at this stage.

I can get exemptions for all the flying I've already done but a downside would probably be spending a semester waiting to get through the BAK/PPL stuff again but equally it could be a financial advantage that I don't need to spend a fortune on flying for the first semester or so.

Option 2: Do it the traditional way at my local flying school + self study (or theory courses?)

Most likely at Lilydale or RVAC.

I understand that this would be a ton cheaper in terms of both flying and study costs, I have the motivation to do it but it might be a lot easier in a classroom/lecture style situation then just by myself.

This also means I could study at my own pace doing only what I need to do. I figure I could get my CPL and start a flying job lot earlier then I could with the Swinburne course. Working full time especially could lift a fair bit of financial burden assuming I still had enough time to study and even if I worked part-time it would give me a lot more flexibility with work hours.

Option 3: Do the RMIT course

This would have a similar outcome to the Swinburne course, No FEE-HELP support either and I've heard some pretty negative opinions of the course here on PPRuNE. Traveling out to Point Cook every day would an hour and a half each way, so not great. The upside is that it's only a single year (full time) though I don't think that includes an Instrument Rating.

Do you think it's worth doing the Swinburne course over self-study and a flying school?
Is it difficult to self-study and get your CPL while working full time?
Is it a lot easier to do a CPL theory course instead of self-study?
What's the current employment prospects like for a fresh out of training pilot? I'd anticipate needing to move interstate.
MECIR or Instructor rating?
Anything else I should consider?

Thanks for your advice!

Mr. Hat
26th Jan 2009, 10:48
Option 2 - get your licence asap before the door closes.

neville_nobody
26th Jan 2009, 11:09
finished an IT degree

Honestly I'd say stick with IT unless you are really passionate and really want to fly.

I would seriously question your motivation after reading your post there as you seem more motivated by the glamour of the industry than the challenge of flying itself. You are better off figuring it out now than in an airline interview when they start questioning your motivation.

However end of the day it's your money and time you're spending...good luck with whatever you choose and if you do go ahead I'd agree get in ASAP.:ok:

damo1089
26th Jan 2009, 11:50
Swinburne is offering FEE HELP to cover flying training if you got into Bachelor of Aviation or Bachelor of Business/Bachelor of Aviation. I know because I'm in it, and got the forms the other day. The reason I am completing my training with them is plain and simple: I don't have 80k kicking around, and FEE HELP is an absolute blessing.
I would keep a sharp eye on the Diploma's FEE HELP eligibility right up until you start financially investing though, because I heard that it is being pushed for.
I went for the Qantas Cadetship too. Kind of glad I failed. Have you seen the "slight" changes it has recently undergone?

biggles7374
26th Jan 2009, 11:53
All of the options you are presented with have their advantages and disadvantages, the best option is usually the one which suits your circumstances the best.

A couple of points regarding fee help - this has been a great thing as far as further education establishments are concerned cause it allows you to be able to afford their course however make sure you read the rules of the FEE HELP scheme - it is not strictly speaking interest free.

Yes it is true that you do not need to commence repayments until your earning reaches a predetermined level however until that time the value of your loan will increase in line with the cost of living as detemined by the Aus Tax Office. This percentage increase is added every year until the loan is payed off in full. Also there is a one off 'arrangement fee' at the beginning which is added to the amount you 'borrow' from memory this is about $16000 (20% of 80k).

Good luck with your deliberations and for your future.

flog
26th Jan 2009, 12:37
There's no "Arrangement" fee.

There IS a 20% discount for monies paid above and beyond the required payment either before (so anything) or once you start earning.

i.e. No job and put $1000 into the loan and they take $1200 off the balance.
Job and put $1000 into the loan above what is due for that financial year, they take $1200 off the balance.

It pays to pay it off early.

tsubasa27
26th Jan 2009, 12:46
Honestly I'd say stick with IT unless you are really passionate and really want to fly. I'm good at IT, but aviation has always been my passion. In hindsight I probably could already be flying but I didn't really want to throw away the work I'd already done and a degree is something that's handy to have. I will agree that IT is a damn lot safer then aviation at the moment though!

I mostly did the IT degree after VCE because back in the day Qantas and most other airlines required VCE Math Methods, which I didn't do and I knew that would burn me some time down the track. I managed to pick up some engineering math electives to cover that and also if I ever lose my medical I won't totally be up the creek with no paddle.

Yes it is true that you do not need to commence repayments until your earning reaches a predetermined level however until that time the value of your loan will increase in line with the cost of living as detemined by the Aus Tax Office. This percentage increase is added every year until the loan is payed off in full. Also there is a one off 'arrangement fee' at the beginning which is added to the amount you 'borrow' from memory this is about $16000 (20% of 80k).Correct, I omitted all that for the readers sake.

Swinburne is offering FEE HELP to cover flying training if you got into Bachelor of Aviation or Bachelor of Business/Bachelor of Aviation.Too bad I applied for the Advanced Diploma, DOH! Since I'm already most of the way towards my PPL I guess the first semester won't be too bad financially but I don't know if they want the first 20 grand upfront first anyway. Guess I'll need to give them a ring to get that sorted.

I guess what I'm really asking is if I'd be better off getting my CPL quickly and cheaply (not that cheap though!) and then start a job and start building hours and real world experience ASAP, or wait a bit longer in the Swinburne course and possibly get better quality training, but pay a hefty premium for it.

I guess both are fine options and ultimately I have to answer this question myself, but thanks for your opinions so far :D

Pilotolatino
26th Jan 2009, 12:57
Search for RMIT or GFS...I've put some advice from personal experience there...in short. you're wasting your time and money with both.

Carambar
26th Jan 2009, 22:27
I was under the impression that FEE-help was only available for B.Av/B.Business, B.Av/Grad. Cert or Assoc. Degree - Not the B.Av alone.

Can anyone else confirm this? :confused:

maxgrad
26th Jan 2009, 22:59
This is the big decision before the next one of Instructor rating or IFR Multi.
I can't say that I have seen anyone truly benifit from the degree in gaining employment. (then again I may not be moving in the right circles)

Fee Help sounds great but as others have said you need to work on what is best in your situation.

My 20 cents.......private study, work as you go and get on with it. Motivation will get you through the self study process.

Go for it!

biggles7374
26th Jan 2009, 23:40
Flog

Think you maybe getting confused with HECS funding. Flying based quals are only eligible for FEE HELP. The following is an extract off the Government Website:


A loan fee of 20% applies to FEE-HELP loans for undergraduate courses of study. The FEE-HELP limit does not include the loan fee. No loan fee applies to FEE-HELP loans for postgraduate courses, bridging courses for overseas-trained professionals, enabling courses or units of study undertaken directly with Open Universities Australia (http://www.open.edu.au/) http://www.goingtouni.gov.au/Heims.Web.Portal/Resources/external.gif (formerly OLA).



I think you will find that the Swinburne course does not qualify for exemption - this was confirmed when I attended a QF Cadet information evening late last year.

DIVINE WIND
27th Jan 2009, 00:16
I worked full-time while chipping away at it. Owned two businesses in the process and went to TAFE for CPL, IREX and ATPL. Not sure what is happening at Ultimo TAFE these days.
At least you have got a profession you can hone while getting the flying done, this is your biggest advantage, alot of people enter the industry and have nothing to fall back on.
The other thing about doing it part time is changing schools if need be. Some places might cater well for a PPL while others provide better IFR courses.

I have ended up overseas and as a dual-rated pilot got to experience the airlines and quit it to go back to single pilot with a decent employer and better lifestyle. My point is, if you really love it, don't get too set on making plans because it won't end being what you think. I have no idea where I will end up but will always be qualified to move on if I have to. Just enjoy the ride and the experiences that this job can offer, its worth it if your patient and you can put up with the crap that will get thrown at you.
I am not in tune with what is going on at home these days with training and loans, but felt that I would put my 2c worth in.
Go for it, good luck!

Mr. Hat
27th Jan 2009, 02:56
You've just done a degree and you want to do another one?

What for? Get you licence, pack your bags and go up north. Stop wasting your time and money.

To all the wannabees out there I have this message: do not put it off any longer. Pack your bags and go.

Pick your licence up from the casa office with your car packed and a full tank and a map...go

Mr. Hat
27th Jan 2009, 04:12
Charter, scenic, parachute, station, prawn spotting, survey, private farm work, ect..

TOPendFLYER
27th Jan 2009, 08:58
Anybody know if its to late to apply for the Bachelor degree course??? I figured I could go there do a MECIR then not finish the degree :E already have CPL