EU or not EU -pilots eye view

[ShotOne]

For those of us ppruners on the Eastern side of the Atlantic Ocean, the subject of whether or not the UK should have stronger ties with the European Union has taken up a great deal of newspaper space. Any comments on how this issue affects us from the point of view of professional flight crew?

[Delboy]

From a constitutional and economic point of view, I would like to withdraw from the EU, as would large numbers of Brits. From an aircrew point of view, the EU seems to have made not the slightest difference to job prospects. You cannot get a job with a French airline if you don't speak French or Lufthansa if you don't speak German.
The notion of a common licence is attractive, but looks to be a long way away. And if you only speak English it will do you no good with the majors. Without a common language, there can be no free movement of labour around the EU.
There are many areas where the respective authorities could co-ordinate policy, but they do not need the EU and its institutions to do this. They could do this in a free trade area. Norway is involved in JAR/OPS but is not in the EU.
If you want to know more about the constitutional and economic implications of remaining in the EU, try www.globalbritain.org. (http://www.globalbritain.org.) It is one of many Eurosceptic sites and will have links to many others.

[Suggs]

A British ATPL will get you a job in virtually any country from Hong Kong to the Middle East to the good old US of A. But neither France or Germany.

The EU is a shambles and the quicker we get out of it the better. Thank God we're not in the single currency.


God Save The Queen



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Graham McPherson

[The Mistress]

Amen to that!

[middlepath]

English is the language for aviation world over. without english we are lost, can you communicate in chinese or rusky ATC? no way.For UK folks you are better off sticking with your cousins on the other side of the Atlantic. They are bit poor in culture but rich in wealth, besides they are the one who came to defend in 1945 from mainland`s agression.UK did one wise decision staying away from EURO.
Cheers

[G-OOFY]

Poor in culture, rich in wealth

Amen to that!

Ok so they helped us out in the 1st and 2nd World Wars (they were late on both occations).

Our European cousins have their faults esp. this EURO currency malarky but a single market in itself is no bad thing. There is probably more Airtravel in Europe as a result of it.

Not for or against EU really, it just *isses me off that Captain Tony and his cronies keep throwing money at it. Don't they realise that all the EU's politicians want us in it to prop the dam thing up. (4th largest economy and all that)

We could join the North America free trade orgaisation if we wanted to, but no doubt we'd be *hat on just the same by those cigar chomping chaps with their "Gee. back in the States ....blah blah blah" attitude. I noticed in the paper this weekend that Mexico and Canada arn't too keen on being trod on at present!

[palerider]

I guess it is easy to blame the US for all your problems and shortfalls. It seemed everyone cried "EU JOBS" when Atlas Air started flying out of STN. Pick a side and stick to it guys, EU or UK. All of us "yanks" are getting tired of you changing sides when it suits your purpose.

[Delboy]

Palerider; you miss the point ref STN and Atlas. I have no objection to US pilots flying from the UK as long as we can fly in the USA. It is the lack of reciprocity which upsets us.
Straw poll at work has vast majority wanting to leave the EU at the first opportunity.

[GeneralAviation]

Think we won't get the euro - have you heard the news - we are going to be persuaded that it's good for us.

Tone's chums are on the offensive and we will take our medicine regardless whether it will cure our ills. They have decided it is good for us - so unless they get voted out we're stuffed.

If you think they won't do a 'u' turn: take a look at the NATS proposed PPP. In opposition they were absolutely agin it - now suddenly they're all in favour.



palerider - such parochial and biased thinking doesn't deserve a response: however, I have many US aircrew (and other) pals - thank god you are not representative.

[ShotOne]

Palerider you are trying to present an anti-American sentiment that doesn't exist -although the Atlas deal (now changed) would never have been allowed in the States.

Since the question of "guarding our patch" has come up, though, what about the proposed expansion of the EU. In a couple of years, Hungary, Poland and the Czech Republic are likely to be members. This means that pilots from these nations have full employment rights in the UK. While not wanting to seem a little englander, this will have a major effect on the pilot market here. Any comments anyone?

[Secret Squirrel]

Yeah, I've got a comment: The sheer arrogance of the typical Brit is evident here. The ability to speak English is not enough to get you by in a foreign airline. Just because pilots all over the world are required to reach a certain standard of 'Aviation English' does not mean that things like Ops Manuals and FSOIs have to be written in English. Also, not everyone attached to an airline is under the obligation to either speak or know English (although to their credit, they do). I think that it's perfectly reasonable for a foreign airline to expect it's employees to speak their language.

If you want a job in any European country, learn the lingo or sit and stew. Don't blame the EU because their citizens chose to better prepare themselves for a European Community than a bunch of lazy Brits. Because, people, that is exactly what it comes down to. You all hide behind this requirement to speak English in aviation and use it as an excuse for not learning another language. What's more, it's a common courtesy.

[Carnage Matey!]

Well Squirrel, which of the languages of the 14 other EU nations should I learn then, bearing in mind that whichever one I choose will be understood in only one or two states. Or perhaps I should just stick to English, as thats the secondary language being taught in every other EU state. Why waste time learning a language like Dutch or Danish (or even German) when most people in these countries have an excellent command of the English language. Besides, an inability to speak French would probably only be one of many obstacles to employment by Air France.

[Tartan Gannet]

Secret Squirrel, Im with you all the way on this one! I am in favour of a Federal Europe from the West Coast of Ireland to the Urals, modeled on the US system with each State such as Britain, France, Italy, etc being able to retain as much of its domestic laws, culture and practices as possible. I was born in 1953 so had no part in the two terrible European wars of the first half of the last century but salute the former Common Market, now the EU, for its role on preventing further internecine strife in Western Europe.

The world is resolving into 3 or 4 great politico-economic groups and I see a United Europe as one of these against the NAFTA based Greater America, and the Far Eastern Bloc of Japan, China, and the Pacific Nations, with perhaps the Arabs and Africa being the forth. I certainly am fed up with Britain being "the USA's kid brother" in a "special relationship" which suits the USA more than the UK. Europe, at least the French part, can be seen from England on a good day, (visit Dover), the USA is a good few thousand miles away.

Its time we ditched the chauvinism and flag waving and accepted the fact that we are not the great world power we once were and stop being the dog in the manger in a European Context.

I would agree with the contrary opinions on one point. In exchange for a unified currency, common passports etc, we should have English as the Official European Common language as it is spoken the world over and used in many professions and occupations which is more than can be said with all due respect to those peoples for French or German.

(I put on my flack jacket and tin hat and wait for the abuse from the Little Englanders)

[Secret Squirrel]

Carnage, which ever one whose airline you might chose to join.

"Why waste time learning a language like Dutch or Danish (or even German) when most people in these countries have an excellent command of the English language."

I would refer you to the last paragraph of my previous post. But in response, if you can't be bothered to waste time learning their language, why should they waste their time employing you?. AF may well be a closed shop but I would not seek to deride their national pride as in many ways it stands them in good stead. In time they will have to open up if the EU is to work and it may take several test cases to convince them of the error of their ways, but it will happen. However, of one thing you can be sure; the requirement to know French will be paramount. The same for many other countries too. The EU may be centralistic but it will defend each member's right to foment their own culture.

[moodymoosey]

Tricky one isn't it....It is true to expect the gov to 'sell' it to us. I remember years ago being taught on a sales course the WIIFM factor, that is 'What's In It For Me'.

As I can see the pros and cons stack up pretty evenly so where is the momentum and impotus for change going to come from? I believe that such a revolution will not occur, and that a government that has stopped listening to the people will try to force the issue, lose, and allow the Tories back in whether they are ready for power or not.

Oh and the Brits have a fervent disregard for the French, as indeed they have for us. Just the way it is. Joe public will vote and vote 'no'.