If you are also ordered to leave the cockpit-

[Ignition Override]

Well, if the other pilot(s) never return or you both are ordered out at the same time, would you refuse to leave, and be ready to die in your seat before (probably) giving up control of the plane? What would (will) your decision be?


Let's hope there are no copycat terrorists or disturbed people waiting for our guard to be let down later.

What happened today in Washington DC and NYC almost happened a few years ago to a FEDEX widebody cargo jet, a DC-10, due to one individual. Mr. C. (about to go before a board and explain why he lied on his FEDEX application about having been fired from Flying Tigers: he faced the end of his career) probably would have flown into the FEDEX hub or a row of their larger airplanes. A (US) PSA Bae-146 was downed years ago by an employee with a large pistol who had been fired. Aerobatic pro Julie C's (also a commercial jet pilot) father, was the Captain on a doomed flight when a nut killed everyone in a FH-227 out west. This is why US airlines keep the cockpit door closed enroute. This might have triggered the removal of all life insurance boxes from US airport terminals.

If the terrorists today only used knives, did they convince everyone to leave the cockpit and go aft with the threat of a bomb, at least as reported from one plane?

Your decision will likely have very grim results, no matter what you do. Must we sit/stand helpless in the cabin, if that was the case?


Maybe the airlines should ask the larger passengers nearest the cockpit along with some in coach whether they would help out, in case a crewmember called for help? Just an idea in case any passengers could verify that all crewmembers were forced from the cockpit.

[ 12 September 2001: Message edited by: Ignition Override ]

[gengis]

Hi Ignition, those are very valid points. No flight deck door is ever gonna prevent one of these guys from entering if he really wanted to. As to your question on whether we'd leave the cockpit, I don't think anyone of us here would be able to fully comprehend what'd be going through the minds of our poor fellow pilots in that situation or the emotional response. I don't even think the psychologists agree fully on how humans behave under such extreme threat. I know I don't. But I know this: my instinct is to never put my airplane under threat. But it's at times like these that we are reminded that we are not always in control, as much as we like to think we are. We just gotta do the best we can and give it our damnest. I pray that I'll never face one of these things and my heart really goes out first of all to all these crew. And to passengers & innocent people going about their lives.

[Ignition Override]

Right Gengis: I'm not trying to second guess anything that those crews did, and have never had a knife to my throat or anything else except mostly dark polyester fabric or the results of clumsy shaving.

But what a miracle, in a way, that the plane over western Pennsylvania never reached its target. If those guys/gals on the crew fought back against extreme odds, they really had guts.

[ 12 September 2001: Message edited by: Ignition Override ]

[Kaptin M]

The more likely scenario given these days, is that the hijackers will take a hostage - cabin crew, or pax, and with weapon to the throat of the hostage, demand the cockpit door be opened. There might not be a direct physical threat to the flight crew. So the question is, do you assume that the hijacker is "2 sandwiches short of a picnic", and there may be some chance of retrieving the situation, or assume that he is of the same violent, fanatical type - such as the Sept 11th's WTC participants? It then would come to the decision "Would you consider losing the life of one (and maybe another), to save thousands? Or do you allow the hijacker access, on the offchance that NO-ONE will probably die?"

Whereas a plainclothed, armed, security agent seated in the aircraft won't have such a difficult decision - pop him off either way!

[bunyip]

Kaptin M

Agree totally.

[PETIGRAM]

For years airline pilots have been trianed to appease hijackers to the bitter end. These pilots were just doing what they were trained to do.

New times - time for a change.

Passengers are going to have to learn too - when the pilots are history - so are they. I know they didn't say anything about this in the Airline brochure but this is what your dealin' with - there's 50-100 of you and a 5 or 6 of them - and they will kill you if you don't kill them. You'll be a hero - if you survive - if you don't do it - you won't survive anyway.

New times.

[Topper187]

How about building planes with no cockpit door? Passengers and pilot enter through diferent entrances. You want refreshments? put a fridge in the cockpit!!

silly idea??

[TowerDog]

After yesterdays horror I suggest we arm cockpit crew members: Pepperspray at a minimum. Perhaps even a big "Rambo" knife in the kit bag.

No, not joking, this could have helped yesterday: I know, we are not trained in close combat and silent killing like the rag heads probably was, but anything to have at least something to fight back with.

Better than empty hands.

Also stronger cockpit doors and better locks.

And of course better security:

Having flown for Tower Air for nearly 7 years
I have seen some good security: We actually hired El-Als head of security to run the security dept.
Tower was also a constant target as it was "Jewish" owned and flew to Tel-Aviv up to 3 times a day.

We had excellent security and lessons could be learned right there. The rest of the US airlines seems to let their last defense agains International Terrorism be in the hands of some incompetent underpaid "guards" with a severe IQ problem.