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JB Mods
17th Jan 2009, 23:57
Friendly reminder from your neighbourhood Mods:


Post in accordance with the JB ROE
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Go for it Ladies and Gentlemen. :)

verticalhold
20th Jan 2009, 14:21
Storminnorm;

One was too many, and sadly our political leaders never learned from history. Every country to try a military solution in Afghanistan in the last 150 years has had it's arse kicked out again. The idiot defence minister who claimed British forces could leave after six months without a shot being fired should go on bended knee to the families of all those killed, of whatever nationality and plead for forgiveness. Instead of which he'll end up with a title and a huge pension.

I'm an ex-infantry officer and even a thicko like me could have told them they were wrong to try.

VH

airfoilmod
20th Jan 2009, 14:24
O/T, BUT. The Moojah were our dearest friends when savaging the Bear, now they are sworn enemies. Afghani is a place without reason for those who value it.

Storminnorm
20th Jan 2009, 15:11
Verticalhold and Airfoilmod. Agree with everything you say,
Afghanistan is, and always has been, a pain in the arse for
the rest of the World, and why we thought we could sort it
out this time around, I just don't know.
The realistic thing to do would be to just pull out and leave
them to it. Whatever "It" is.
The loss of one life trying to bring stability to a dump like
that is, as you said, too many. Just let 'em get on with it.
The price of staying is too high.
Problem is the Heroin price is also too high, and they will
never stop producing it and waging war over it.
Hopeless situation.

Rollingthunder
20th Jan 2009, 15:18
Problem is the Heroin price is also too high, and they will
never stop producing it and waging war over it.

Where is Agent Orange when you really need it. Millions and millions being poured into the country to help feed the people and the farmers are growing poppies instead of wheat and veggies. Just madness it is.

Inauguration - sick of it. up here "Friends of Obama" have bused to Washington, set up theatres to watch it in groups, it's all over the TV etc. To all I say "Get a Life", he's not your president. Will I have to put up with this for four years? Strewth.

BlueWolf
20th Jan 2009, 18:13
Problem is the Heroin price is also too high, and they will
never stop producing it and waging war over it.

Before the Taleban, Afghanistan produced 73% of the world's heroin. Then the Taleban got rid of the poppies. Shortly thereafter, the Taleban became World Public Enemy No. 1, and "we" (the West) got rid of them. Today, Afghanistan produces 90% of the world's heroin, and "we" apparently can't do anything about it.

We can't do anything about the production of opium poppy in Afgahnistan, but we can get rid of the people who got rid of the opium poppy in Afghanistan.

Anyone spot a connection?
:rolleyes:

AMF
20th Jan 2009, 20:49
As someone who didn't vote for Obama I'd like to say;

Good luck to our new President! If nothing else, it's nice to have a Chief Executive who isn't a bumbling gaffe-machine or a used car salesman, trailer trash momma's boy like our last two. While obviously at the opposite end of the experience spectrum from the elder Bush (who literally invented his own form of syntax), this Obama fellow seems to have a knack for inspirational oration, almost Regeanesque it seems (probably since it's been so long absent in the Oval Office). It may not be coincidence that his manner (if not the substance) struck a chord with the majority of Americans at a time when economic doldrums and world issues have Americans in a similar frustrated state of mind as what Jimmy Carter's incompetent Presidency had put us in during the late 70's.

As for the substance, it's wait and see of course. As of today, it's "Show, don't tell" time.

My hope is that President Obama can resist becoming a puppet for the Lefty elements of the Legislature..those of Biden's ilk, heaven forbid he ever ascends to the Oval Office...who are undoubtedly gleeful of the prospect he may be malleable to their every whim. I take it as a good sign that the Lincoln Memorial was his inaguaral centerpiece and all that symbolizes, and that elements of his upbringing will manifest themselves into a willingness to corral the Washington political machine and remember who really put him into office. Granted, most evidence points the other direction, but I'm up for a suprise that perhaps the rhetoric will match his actions.

For those non-Americans out there wishing our newly-minted President well, thank you.

For those non-Americans out there wishing our newly-minted President ill, [email protected]#% you.

And for those whinging non-Americans out there bellyaching about our little inaugural ceremony filled with it's invocations and bad singing, turn off the telly and go back to your tea. We, as usual, don't care what you think....it's our schlock and we'll cheese it up as much as we want, complete with disposable Bics and the occasional Zippo held aloft.

con-pilot
20th Jan 2009, 20:53
One of the most impressive sights I have seen so far today is that all of the military personnel standing in front of the reviewing stand are armed with drums and bugles, not machine guns.

tinpis
20th Jan 2009, 20:57
Ah, but they are nuculear drums and bugles.

AMF
20th Jan 2009, 20:58
con-pilot One of the most impressive sights I have seen so far today is that all of the military personnel standing in front of the reviewing stand are armed with drums and bugles, not machine guns.

Nice observance and well-said, Con.

Roger Sofarover
20th Jan 2009, 21:29
Con

maybe er340790 is Lt Steven Hauk off Good Morning Vietnam!


To his General

'Sir, in my heart I know I am funny'

or

It's funny, I know funny, I am funny'!

Sunfish
20th Jan 2009, 21:41
Move this if you want Mods.

This type of over reaction, and misuse of anti terrorism laws, is the main reason I will never visit the USA again.

="http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-airline-felonies20-2009jan20,0,5468299.story


At least 200 passengers have been convicted of felonies under the Patriot Act, often for behavior involving raised voices and profanity. Some experts say airlines are misusing the law.
By Ralph Vartabedian and Peter Pae

January 20, 2009

Reporting from Los Angeles and Oklahoma City -- Tamera Jo Freeman was on a Frontier Airlines flight to Denver in 2007 when her two children began to quarrel over the window shade and then spilled a Bloody Mary into her lap.

She spanked each of them on the thigh with three swats. It was a small incident, but one that in the heightened anxiety after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks would eventually have enormous ramifications for Freeman and her children.

A flight attendant confronted Freeman, who responded by hurling a few profanities and throwing what remained of a can of tomato juice on the floor.

The incident aboard the Frontier flight ultimately led to Freeman's arrest and conviction for a federal felony defined as an act of terrorism under the Patriot Act, the controversial federal law enacted after the 2001 attacks in New York and Washington.

dead_pan
20th Jan 2009, 21:46
I thought Obama's inauguration speech was a bit of a downer - cheer us up why don't ya. Got the sense the crowd was thinking "is it too late to change our minds? At least McCain would have given us a few laughs"

Still, good luck to him and good riddance to Dubya. Go play with yer chainsaw.

birrddog
20th Jan 2009, 23:32
In-flight confrontations can lead to charges defined as terrorism - Los Angeles Times (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-airline-felonies20-2009jan20,0,5468299.story)

misd-agin
21st Jan 2009, 01:42
She was found guilty of the charges against her. In general the court system works. On an airplane with the load factors we're experiencing there were probably numerous witnesses.

This article is just telling her side, and of course, human nature being what it is, she would never minimize her behavior.

"When in Rome, do as the Romans do", and enjoy your visit.

Apple Tree Yard
21st Jan 2009, 03:01
This is appalling. A stressed out mother with two children attempts to discipline them, and it results in the ruin of her and the childrens lives. I will never again fly Frontier Airlines. I hope the flight crew involved lives with the guilt and shame of knowing their thin skins left a family in ruins. Despicable. :mad:

finfly1
21st Jan 2009, 03:03
It is a slippery slope and more than a little terrifying.

flyhardmo
21st Jan 2009, 03:48
This is appalling. A stressed out mother with two children attempts to discipline them, and it results in the ruin of her and the childrens lives.

Not to mention the her little kids spilled her bloody mary :}

The terrorism charges are pretty extreme but she was hurling abuse at a crew member. Assulting a crew member is a pretty serious charge these days. :=
A flight attendant confronted Freeman, who responded by hurling a few profanities and throwing what remained of a can of tomato juice on the floor.

Mark1234
21st Jan 2009, 04:03
Ahem.. last time I checked, assault means phisically striking someone.

More interestingly, a mother who disciplined her children on a flight? Rare indeed in this day and age. Sadly it sounds like it might have been coupled with a loss of control, but if verbal abuse is a jailable offence, we need to turn most of the planet into jails.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

scott967
21st Jan 2009, 04:33
OK, but the poster child for this issue, Tamara Jo Freeman, was charged under 49USC46504 "Interference with a Flight Crew Member" and 18USC113 "Assault on a child under 16". Both existed long before the Patriot Act. The Patriot Act (P.L. 107-56) did amend 49USC46504 by adding "or attempts or conspires to do such an act". Freeman, however, was not charged with an attempt or conspiracy. Whether or not the U.S. Attorney should have tried this case is a good question, but has nothing to do with the Patriot Act.

scott s.
.

Wiley
21st Jan 2009, 05:38
Does anyone else suspect that the scriptwriter who wrote that scene in "Meet the Parents" where Ben Stiller's character crosses swords with the Flight Attendant might have been writing from personal experience?

I think there'd be quite a few of us who've witnessed similar confrontations where the pax is by no means totally in the wrong.

BlueWolf
21st Jan 2009, 06:09
As do we all. I look forward to your comments on why eight years of Democrat control has not produced the America of your desire.

I don't care to search, and neither is it likely that we would ever call each other 'friend'.

But I'm not discussing this here. This thread is about voicing support for our American contributors and their new President, not about the likes of you and I sniping at each other.

You may now have the last word, if you wish.

411A
21st Jan 2009, 06:10
I will never again fly Frontier Airlines.

I suspect you will not be missed.
Children (and their respective mothers) had better behave themselves, otherwise, in the clink for 'em all.
Misbehave...pay the consequences.
Children....especially.:E

PS. Can't stand the brats...they should be banned.
Pronto.:D

NB. And, for those that actually have the brats...keep 'em at home simply because no one else wants to hear 'em.
Period.:ok:

LIMA OR ALPHA JUNK
21st Jan 2009, 06:16
Thankyou. I'm glad we're agreed on one thing and that is to wish Obama the very best of luck. He has a daunting legacy and he is going to need it.

ray cosmic
21st Jan 2009, 06:50
back in yer cave 411A.

@abc1: Now let me try to understand: you were witnessing behavior almost contrary to what the Cabin Crew have a man arrested for? Did you try yo help the poor man after he got arrested by making a statement, or did you simply leave him in his own defense?

icarus sun
21st Jan 2009, 07:10
Well said 411A. I would suggest that seatbelts have a locking device. Once closed can only be opened by cabin crew.:}

CherokeeDriver
21st Jan 2009, 07:16
Throw a can of Tomato Juice on the floor and lose custody of your children and spend 3 months in jail.:mad:

I hope all involved feel very proud of their contribution to in-flight safety.

Fruity Tones
21st Jan 2009, 09:10
Bye bye Mr Tones.

Captain Stable
21st Jan 2009, 09:16
I am certainly very impressed by those Republicans here who have expressed the sentiment that he's now President and therefore will get their backing. That's more generous than, I confess, I had expected and I apologise for my cynicism. But I'm a Brit, and we do tend to be more cynical than you colonials over there. ;)

I do hope that Obama finds the pooch hasn't be pre-screwed for him, if you'll pardon a somewhat tortured metaphor borrowed from con (like whom, I'm glad Hillary ain't President - at lest, I think that was con's sentiment - it was a bit ambiguous). Obama has inherited a HUGE load of problems and sorting them out is going to hurt. Here's a little list:-
Guantanamo Bay - he's already made a start here, requesting suspension pro tem of trials in progress
Iraq - how the heck to get the troops out?
Afghanistan - ditto, but a bit more delicate
Global economy and the USA's place in it
Global Warming - he made one or two references to it in his speech
Middle East - contribute to the peace process, reign in Israel and ensure stability while reining in Israel (but they were expecting him to do so)
Global terrorism and relations with IslamOK - and on the action plan for day 2 is... :uhoh:

The guy has a huge mountain in his In-tray. He's going to need all the support he can get, even when it starts to hurt, so the fact that Republicans on here are supporting him is, I find, very encouraging. :D

Good luck to the guy.

Scumbag O'Riley
21st Jan 2009, 09:25
When Rush give Obama his backing I'll start giving credit. Until then it's all talk and no action.

BelArgUSA
21st Jan 2009, 09:40
All this makes me laugh... "assault on minor" (for spanking your brat) -
Oh, the Anglo-Saxon society is strange civilization.
Interpretation of words, which become insults to someone else.
Legal definition of terrorism... Do not need an AK-47...?
xxx
Reminds me of the Haj pilgrim flights to/from Jeddah.
Passenger briefing -
... and your life jacket is located under your seat...
Ah...! This is my life jacket. Thank you.
No wonder these Sahara pilgrims deplaned with their life jackets.
xxx
Trouble is, not too much water around to try them in the sands...
Glad they could not take their seats with them, belts and armrests.
I bet many airline "souvenir" ashtrays are found in Africa.
xxx
No wonder many pilots prefer cargo airlines.
:E
Happy contrails

Airbubba
21st Jan 2009, 09:44
This type of over reaction, and misuse of anti terrorism laws, is the main reason I will never visit the USA again.


Please, take four more with you!:ok:

Yank bashing is a staple of this forum...

Ahem.. last time I checked, assault means phisically striking someone.


Don't know how they spell or define it downunder but assault can be verbal in the U.S.

Captain Stable
21st Jan 2009, 09:45
One question that arose in my mind after the actual inauguration itself - when they waved GWB off on his Marines wokka, what would have been its callsign? Ex-1? :}

ORAC
21st Jan 2009, 09:48
Captain Stable:

Iraq: The plans are now in place to bring them out. He'll hold meetings, because he said he would, but I don't expect any major changes to those already in place.

Afghanistan: You seem to be confused over his intentions, his aim is to put more troops in. Not only does he think that Afghanistan is a worthwhile conflict he thinks it has been under-resourced and also advocated and supports strikes into Pakistan against Al Qaeda if Pakistan won't.

BARACK OBAMA: THE WAR WE NEED TO WIN (http://obama.3cdn.net/417b7e6036dd852384_luzxmvl09.pdf)

Obama’s Risky Pakistan Strategy (http://washingtonindependent.com/9790/ackermanobamaalqaedapakistan-102)


Don't confuse Obama with a peacenik, he just has other wars he wants to fight. And, oh yeah, one of the biggest complaints he and the Democrats had against the war in Iraq was it distracted attention from the real enemy in the region - Iran.

Pelosi: More must be done to stop Iran (http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull&cid=1210668665810)

I think a lot of people have some strange idea that US foreign policy is suddenly become all tree-huggy and friendly. Don't bet on it.

Atlanta-Driver
21st Jan 2009, 09:55
There are hunderds of thousands of people that do not want to visit US due to your Soviet style laws and policies. US went from the land of the free to a controlled society not that dissimilar from the good old USSR.

It will take US years to recover from the negative tones and publicity around the world. Main culprit: The idiocies of the previous administration or what will be known as the Bush Regime.

Hope the new government will do their best to cure the mental numbness running amok in all walks of life in US of A.

Captain Speedbird
21st Jan 2009, 10:12
Which is the worse? Cynicism or naivety? Best of luck to President Obama. He'll need it. With all these billions of beaming hopefuls in his wake, I would be worried if I were him. Still, he'll reap as he sowed.

Final 3 Greens
21st Jan 2009, 10:40
Airbubba

There are many of us around the world, who would like instinctively to support the US and who remember the moral lead your country gave to the world for many years.

A lot of that trust and goodwill has eroded over the past 8 years and to blanket us all as 'yank bashers' is really missing the point and being in denial. (although there are some here who are fairly described by your words.)

I wish President Obama the best of success in leadng the USA out of the shadows and back up onto the sunlight heights.

Atlanta-Driver
21st Jan 2009, 12:12
Dear Airbubba

What does voting in one's home country have to do with US laws and policies? I think ZIP. Don't have greencard, have not applied for one and don't want one. I am quite happy living where I am, a truly democratic society with a working multi-party system.

Oh yes and I vote.

airfoilmod
21st Jan 2009, 12:39
Is preferred, to me. Cynicism is a refuge, a hiding place.

StaceyF
21st Jan 2009, 18:15
On lunchtime TalkSport news that figure was quoted as 4 million.

Anyway, good luck to the bloke, he's gonna need it. I'm still convinced someone, somewhere, someday is going to take a potshot at him.

As sure as eggs is eggs...............

AntiCrash
21st Jan 2009, 18:38
The Democrats did not have a majority until the sixth year of W's tenure.

I voted for W the first go hoping to see a bright future with the Republican party in control of the Whitehouse and both houses of Congress. Well, I saw what happened. :yuk:

airship
21st Jan 2009, 18:51
Herr Doktor Paul Joseph Goebbels (better known as BlueWolf in our circles) enlightened us with: In any case, the Democrats have been in charge of both houses of the US Congress, and the purse strings, for all eight years of the Bush administration... Oh Reilly?! I think I should go bury myself in a heap of manure and only come out again once the awful smell has gone away...?! :confused::}

mickjoebill
21st Jan 2009, 19:16
The man did not use a teleprompter! It's good to have a leader that can maintain a train of thought.


There were two tele prompter screens in standard configuration in his 2 and 10 o'clock positions. A lot of pressure on the operator of the prompter who has to keep scrolling the text to match the pace of the delivery.

Didnt see any paper version of the speech on the podium but there would have been one in reserve nearby.

Chief justice needed a prompter for the swearing in!

Mickjoebill.

Capt.KAOS
21st Jan 2009, 19:17
As do we all. I look forward to your comments on why eight years of Democrat control has not produced the America of your desire.Are you sure you're talking about the US of A?

Refreshing to see that Obama is tackling the hot spots without wasting any time. 8 years of suffocating lethargy finally finished, as it seems. It's hard to negotiate with a POTUS that everybody in the world seem to love. Much more difficult than Bush who was hated by so many. Pretty sure the Iranians prefer Bush at the other side of the table.

BlueWolf
21st Jan 2009, 19:33
Herr Doktor Paul Joseph Goebbels (better known as BlueWolf in our circles) enlightened us with:

I don't know whether that's completely hilarious or terribly sad, airship. Probably both. You're not a very happy person, are you? :sad:

I think I should go bury myself in a heap of manure

Now there's a good idea ;)

LIMA OR ALPHA JUNK
21st Jan 2009, 19:37
Indeed Kaos,

What a breath of fresh air.............

President Barack Obama pushes for peace in the Middle East - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/4308370/President-Barack-Obama-pushes-for-peace-in-the-Middle-East.html)

President Barack Obama vows to clean up American politics - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/4309051/President-Barack-Obama-vows-to-clean-up-American-politics.html)

airship
21st Jan 2009, 20:20
Now there's a good idea ;) I'm not sure whether I should cry or weep or both...

During his 8 year reign on Earth, GWB basically managed to ignore all of Africa and South America. Condemned much of the Middle-east, South-asia and Far-east by virtue of their important Muslim populations. Someone who chose to do battle against 'terrorist adversaries' whether in Afghanistan or Iraq, from the comfort of a 70-ton main battle tank against foes on horseback (or should that be adversaries equipped with mules and camels)? During these 8 years, he's probably multiplied by 10 times the numbers of those willing to become 'terrorists' and future adversaries. And alienated most of whom that had any remaining goodwill towards the USA.

You want what, when and where? GWB apologists should make themselves scarce. And if that means burying themselves in the manure, well, it's not all bad. You could always hope to come out eventually smelling of roses...?! :} :rolleyes:

PS. Come back in 2013 or so, not before OK...?! Bye bye... :uhoh:

BenThere
21st Jan 2009, 20:49
GWB basically managed to ignore all of Africa and South America Not true.

Condemned much of the Middle-east, South-asia and Far-east by virtue of their important Muslim populations
Not true.

chose to do battle against 'terrorist adversaries' whether in Afghanistan or Iraq, from the comfort of a 70-ton main battle tank against foes on horseback Not true.

he's probably multiplied by 10 times the numbers of those willing to become 'terrorists' and future adversaries Not true. The number of those willing to become terrorists, especially within the USA, has been decimated.

alienated most of whom that had any remaining goodwill towards the USA Not true. And those whose good will has been lost possessed no good will worth having.

Other than that, Airship, nice post!;)

I second the expressed good will and hope for the success of our new president. He has daunting challenges along with all of us. He also has a loyal opposition, whereas his predecessor had only opposition. While I think his election stems from false hope from a dumbed down electorate incognizant of the consequences of leftist ideology, I will be grateful if the damage is limited.

Principles and ideology are either vindicated or proven false and rejected over time. Hopefully there will be enough time to determine the effect of our collective and democratic actions and correct or reinforce as necessary. For now, Hail to the Chief!

John Hill
21st Jan 2009, 21:15
Airbubba, take it from me, you can draw a line under what Final 3 Greens wrote!:D

ExSp33db1rd
21st Jan 2009, 21:29
L337 - Have you no sense of humour ?

411A - quite right, World's gone mad. ( now if I could only find a passing 5 yr. old I might be able to use my cellphone to send a 'text' message! )

pigboat
21st Jan 2009, 21:54
Heh heh, Ben you thought the belly-achin' was over for awhile, didn't you? :p

LIMA OR ALPHA JUNK
21st Jan 2009, 22:25
Airship,

Let the barbed comments ride bud. A new dawn is beckoning where greed, cronyism and indifference is going to be binned. The country we can't mention on here is going to be brought to heel and made to make peace for the good of the world.

I've never felt so optimistic about a US President in my life :ok:

God Bless America

parabellum
21st Jan 2009, 22:45
A new dawn is beckoning where greed, cronyism and indifference is going to be binned


Unfortunately not. Greed, cronyism and indifference is a word perfect description of the democratic party of the USA.

con-pilot
21st Jan 2009, 22:47
I've never felt so optimistic about a US President in my life

Oh you will change your mind, I give it two months, tops. :p

Or, as soon as President Obama sends an additional 10,000 plus troops into Afghanistan. Which happens to be his plan.

A new dawn is beckoning where greed, cronyism and indifference is going to be binned.

Err, yeah, that's why Hillary is Sectary of State and Caroline Kennedy will crowned 'United States Senator from New York State' this Saturday. Nope, no cronyism there. :hmm:

And no, I'm not picking on President Obama, it is the Democratic Party I am referring to.

BarbiesBoyfriend
21st Jan 2009, 23:05
Good Luck to Obama. If ever a guy needed it.....

A fancy talker, for sure. Like most politicians:

Never mind what they say,

Watch what they DO.

talk is cheap.

LIMA OR ALPHA JUNK
21st Jan 2009, 23:14
Hey Con,

Hope the airline is treating you well. Never had any problem with Afghanistan - it's a war we can't win but a war worth fighting. I won't change my mind in 2 months pal about Obama:ok:

If you think rendition, Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib, the trashing of Gaza, Lebanon, Iraq, the sub-prime fiasco etc etc has been a good thing for America, then good luck bud.

I'm glad the majority of your compatriots disagreed fella.

con-pilot
21st Jan 2009, 23:25
I'm glad the majority of your compatriots disagreed fella.

Only a slight majority my friend, only a slight majority. It was not a Reagan style landslide.

(And before you waste bandspace, yes I realize that it was a larger margin than Bush had in his two elections, but nowhere close to Reagan's majority in his reelection.)

Oh, just now noticed this;

the trashing of Gaza, Lebanon,

So, former President George W. Bush is not only responsible for Katrina, the tsunami, he is also responsible for what is going on in Gaza and what has happened in Lebanon as well. Let alone Iraq

Oh my. :rolleyes:

You really need to study the history of the Middle East that goes past the the last eight years, starting around 1900. Not just the last eight years.

After you do, get back to me.

LIMA OR ALPHA JUNK
21st Jan 2009, 23:38
Straws and clutching springs to mind :eek:

Good Luck Obama - a new mindset is on the way..... please :ok:

Dan Winterland
21st Jan 2009, 23:40
My son's hamster's cage has a wheel with a simple spindle which makes quite a lot of noise when it's used. As it's quite energetic at night, it keeps my son awake (the cage is in his room and my son doesn't want it moved). Surely there must be a market for a hamster wheel with bearings to keep it quiet.

con-pilot
21st Jan 2009, 23:48
My son's hamster's cage has a wheel with a simple spindle which makes quite a lot of noise when it's used.

Try WD-40, that will do the trick. :ok:

BenThere
21st Jan 2009, 23:49
First, try spraying the wheel with WD-40. It could be a simple friction problem creating the noise.

If that doesn't work, surround the axle at the point of contact with the wheel with cotton. Good material to use is a makeup remover pad or even a cotton ball.

If all fails, contact a moderator and have him/her shut down the wheel.

Dan Winterland
21st Jan 2009, 23:53
I've tried WD40, but the bearing is plastic and quite loose. It's the wheel vibrating that causes the noise. I'm getting an idea for a metal spindle and some of those tiny bearings you can get in radio model shops.

Watch out for the DW patented silent hamster wheel appearing in a pet shop near you!

BenThere
22nd Jan 2009, 00:01
Or you could build a spindle from the hard plastic rod from a used paper roll on the printer in the cockpit of an Airbus A320. I always thought there must be a good use for those things, but didn't until now realize what it was.

Edited to add:

A wise Brit once wrote: Freedom tastes of reality.

Who was it?

lomapaseo
22nd Jan 2009, 00:42
My son's hamster's cage has a wheel with a simple spindle which makes quite a lot of noise when it's used. As it's quite energetic at night, it keeps my son awake (the cage is in his room and my son doesn't want it moved). Surely there must be a market for a hamster wheel with bearings to keep it quiet.

The simple trick is to hook it up to a fan motor. I doubt that you will hear the spindle noises over the screams of the hamsters trying to keep up

AMF
22nd Jan 2009, 01:10
airship Quote:
Now there's a good idea

I'm not sure whether I should cry or weep or both...

During his 8 year reign on Earth, GWB basically managed to ignore all of Africa and South America. Condemned much of the Middle-east, South-asia and Far-east by virtue of their important Muslim populations. Someone who chose to do battle against 'terrorist adversaries' whether in Afghanistan or Iraq, from the comfort of a 70-ton main battle tank against foes on horseback (or should that be adversaries equipped with mules and camels)? During these 8 years, he's probably multiplied by 10 times the numbers of those willing to become 'terrorists' and future adversaries. And alienated most of whom that had any remaining goodwill towards the USA.

You want what, when and where? GWB apologists should make themselves scarce. And if that means burying themselves in the manure, well, it's not all bad. You could always hope to come out eventually smelling of roses...?!

PS. Come back in 2013 or so, not before OK...?! Bye bye...

....and unable to contain it's desire for attention, the pesky little dog jumps out of the International Sideliner's Peanut Gallery and runs yapping across the floor to hump one of Uncle Sam's ankles. Just goes to show not much has changed. Yawn.


ConPilot Quote: So, former President George W. Bush is not only responsible for Katrina, the tsunami, he is also responsible for what is going on in Gaza and what has happened in Lebanon as well. Let alone Iraq

Oh my.

You really need to study the history of the Middle East that goes past the the last eight years, starting around 1900. Not just the last eight years.

After you do, get back to me.

LIMA OR ALPHA JUNK quote; Straws and clutching springs to mind

It certainly does. Meaning that "clutching at straws" is all anyone who doesn't know history past their own nose can do, right up until the point they eventually show their a$$. Thanks for demonstrating, LAJ.

Just as some have a propensity to do with regard to their understanding of the separation of powers within the U.S. government and which branch holds the purse strings and writes the laws. They'd rather stay ignorant and whinge than pick up a simple book and learn before they open their mouth or commit words to page.

And to think Americans catch flak from these same old, tired quarters about not knowing "what goes on in the world". I pity those so ignorant to think the office of President fills the role of King in our government, playing either the devil or messiah in one's everyday life. It must be so frustrating for those who still harbor this peasant mentality, blaming all their ills on one while they wait in vain for the other.

Fubaar
22nd Jan 2009, 06:28
Just heard on the news that President Barak Hussein Obama swore the oath of office a second time because both he and the Chief Justice fumbled their words in their first attempt at the inauguration. Advisors suggested that the second oath taking was necessary to ensure conspiracy theorists would not be able to allege that BHO was not actually president because he had not sworn the oath word perfect.

However, the second oath was sworn without Mrs Obama present and without a bible, because “one was not available”.

Even if other women were in fact present in the room, (highly likely, I’d have thought), am I the only one to think that the fact OHB’s wife wasn’t present and that no bible was used will set the crazy right wing conspiracy theorists into orbit?

BOFH
22nd Jan 2009, 06:41
George Bush did more damage to the reputation of US (sic) than any other president this century.

I have to agree with you on that. There have only been three Presidents this century, and the new one's only been in the job for a few days. The one who preceded Bush was economical with the truth and had a strange humidor.

BOFH

BlueWolf
22nd Jan 2009, 06:42
George Bush did more damage to the reputation of US than any other president this century. The good will and symphaty is pretty much gone.

I don't really think that's the case, outside of the left wing, the media, and the liberal element in Europe.

Lots of us on the right, conservatives etc, actually quite liked the Cowboy. And we don't blame the people of any nation for their Governments.

Personally, I liked the Americans under Carter, I liked the Americans under Reagan, I liked the Americans under Clinton, I liked the Americans under both Bushes, and I'll like the Americans under Obama. I'm too young to really remember anyone before Carter ;)

Of course I don't like every last little bit of American foreign policy. I don't like every last little bit of my own country's foreign policy, either.

But mates are mates, and I say good on the Yanks, and good luck to them and their new President.

prospector
22nd Jan 2009, 07:04
"One question that arose in my mind after the actual inauguration itself - when they waved GWB off on his Marines wokka, what would have been its callsign? Ex-1? "

If you could be more specific, do you mean the first inauguration? or the second one when the players managed to get it correct, in private, and the "wokka" was long gone.

"We believe that the oath of office was administered effectively and that the president was sworn in appropriately yesterday," Robert Gibbs told reporters, quoting a statement from White House counsel Greg Craig.

"But the oath appears in the Constitution itself and, out of an abundance of caution, because there was one word out of sequence, Chief Justice John Roberts will administer the oath a second time."

Load Toad
22nd Jan 2009, 07:28
I think that had started already with the fumble over the words the first time.

After Roberts' Oath Flub, Wallace Wonders If Obama Is Really President | Crooks and Liars (http://crooksandliars.com/logan-murphy/after-roberts-oath-flub-wallace-wonde)

kluge
22nd Jan 2009, 09:04
hhmmmm perhaps the Koran was used - to maintain the balance. :E

sitigeltfel
22nd Jan 2009, 09:16
I thought his second oath would be something like "Jesus Christ, what a f*****g mess!"

ORAC
22nd Jan 2009, 09:44
I thought that the line after his Second Coming...... :E:E

Captain Stable
22nd Jan 2009, 09:51
Once a term I see a bunch of bright young things turn up at a certain military academy, dropped off by their mummies and daddies, their faces shining brightly, nice new ironing boards under their arms, ready to be fed into the machine.

And I look around them and I wonder how many of them will still be alive in a couple of years' time.

Worth fighting? It was. It's not now. It has been mired in indifference, national in-fighting, lack of commitment, spin and greed. We went in there to get Bin Laden. The US Administration lost interest in him, preferring to go after someone else who had nothing whatsoever to do with 9/11. Bin Laden is still alive, and Aghanistan is descending into more and more chaos. Even the Army commanders themselves say the war is not winnable. So why are we still there?

bnt
22nd Jan 2009, 10:50
Well, for those wondering whether Obama ought to take the oath again... he did (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090122/ap_on_go_pr_wh/obama_oath_do_over).

frostbite
22nd Jan 2009, 11:59
"Caroline Kennedy will crowned 'United States Senator from New York State' this Saturday."


Hasn't she declined, to spend more time with her family, or some such?

LIMA OR ALPHA JUNK
22nd Jan 2009, 12:07
YoDawg

Why is it worth fighting?

Are you ex-military then and served over there?

I believe it is worth fighting to stop Al Qaeda and the Taleban from taking the country over, asides the opium traffic from there.

No, i'm not ex-military. Not quite sure of the relevance of that question.

AMF, your vitriol underlines your obvious disappointment with the Presidential outcome. I'll choose to ignore your childish insults as a consequence.

Con, the point I was making about Gaza and the Lebanon conflict was that if Bush wanted it halted sooner, he could have done. You know and I know that America pulls Israel's strings and instead billions of dollars of damage was allowed to be done with huge civilian loss of life.

Capt.KAOS
22nd Jan 2009, 12:14
I don't really think that's the case, outside of the left wing, the media, and the liberal element in Europe.
Hmmmm.... if you look at Juniors approval figures from his own people (only Nixon was worse), you would think it's not only the outside of the left wing...

Captain Speedbird
22nd Jan 2009, 12:17
Well there you go - we have a 'just' war on our hands. Obama says so. This year the Taleban are our enemies. I think it's a waste of good lives myself. Why not just go back to the good old days of the Mujahadeen? Pay them off, give them power. Its their country, they can run it their way. If the people don't like it they will boot them out without our help. Oh no, there is the cynic in me coming out again. All together......

BenThere
22nd Jan 2009, 12:25
Why not just go back to the good old days

Because in the 'good old days', left to their own devices, they established training camps and sanctuaries for murderers who then infiltrated non-Muslim societies and blew innocent people up.

Captain Speedbird
22nd Jan 2009, 12:44
infiltrated non-Muslim societies and blew innocent people up. And right there is the problem. If we provide terrorists (is that a non PC word now?) with rights and sanctuary within our own countries to do that we only have ourselves to blame. Sacrificing young lives in the name of human rights and 'freedom' is immoral. Hey this could be fun, the boot is on the other foot now. I could get a taste for this chance to carp and whine.

LIMA OR ALPHA JUNK
22nd Jan 2009, 13:12
I was wondering if your zeal for the fight came from personal experience or you're simply satisfied to see others sent into the war. Having done my time, it often ceases to amaze me when I read the opinions of our civ population on 'the good fight.

I don't like seeing anyone being sent to war and was scathing over our involvement in Iraq. I take it that your time in the military was through choice ?

con-pilot
22nd Jan 2009, 17:24
"Caroline Kennedy will crowned 'United States Senator from New York State' this Saturday."


Hasn't she declined, to spend more time with her family, or some such?

Yes, she has withdrawn her name from the nomination to be appointed the next Senator from New York State. She did so shortly after I posted that.

I'm not buying the excuse she used about wanting to spend more time with her family. She devoted way too much time, money, energy and pulling in political markers to just suddenly drop out just days before she would have been appointed.

No, somebody discovered something in her past that caused her give up all sudden like. Sometime so damaging that even the pro-Kennedy major media outlets would have to report. We will probably never find out just what it is.

I rather feel sorry for the Governor of New York now, just think about all the people beating his door down now wanting him to appoint them now that Kennedy is out of the picture.

Not a pretty sight. :uhoh:

lomapaseo
22nd Jan 2009, 20:24
No, somebody discovered something in her past that caused her give up all sudden like. Sometime so damaging that even the pro-Kennedy major media outlets would have to report. We will probably never find out just what it is.


Well if she was up for trial and the jury was still hearing the testimony your speculation would prompt all kind of theories about plea bagaining

But seeing as the judge has already decided the outcome it's likely that she is being given the opportunity to plead nole contendre without any admission of wrongdoing but just a suggestion that the deck is stacked against her with Coumo

con-pilot
22nd Jan 2009, 21:18
Latest rumors flying out of the New York media is that the Governor had already decided not to name Kennedy to the Senate for the following reasons discovered during the vetting process.

Big time tax issues.

A workman's compensation case filled against Kennedy by a housekeeper.

Kennedy didn't quite work for charitable organizations as much as she claimed, as little as an average of one hour a week.

And last if not least, trouble in paradise in regards to her marriage.

So, who knows. In any case, just another small, slight footnote in history.

Capt.KAOS
23rd Jan 2009, 09:09
Latest rumors flying out of the New York media is that the Governor had already decided not to name Kennedy to the Senate for the following reasons discovered during the vetting process.

Big time tax issues.

A workman's compensation case filled against Kennedy by a housekeeper.

Wow...are you sure she ain't Republican?

Pugilistic Animus
23rd Jan 2009, 13:58
I'll miss Bush he's not really a bad person and he provided me with 8 years of laughs:}:}:} ---he's my favorite comedian of all--I hate comedy skits of him because nothing and no one is funnier than him:ugh:---I'd have a beer with him---Cheney is an evil scumbag and he's the one responsible for this mess anyways---Watch Bush's war on PBS

even now my favorite thing to do is get the CristAl agua ardiente and watch tube clips of him


Obama, is an impressive individual he actually very decisive and serious --but unfortunately the media makes him seem a bit muppetty---however the media is muppetty so what can be expected? but I hold out hope that he will be a strong independent bipartisan thinker yet not unilateral---I did vote for him and I'm glad he won but I'm not starstruck I just want him to go to work--

admittedly, I did not watch the inauguration until the next day as that is a ground activity and I hate the ground and remain three phase triple disconnected therefrom:suspect:


McCain is a nice man:)

PAPA ALPHA

airship
23rd Jan 2009, 14:02
....and unable to contain it's desire for attention, the pesky little dog jumps out of the International Sideliner's Peanut Gallery and runs yapping across the floor to hump one of Uncle Sam's ankles. Just goes to show not much has changed. Yawn. I prefer cats these days. Yawn. Even so :ok: Double-yawn.

ORAC
23rd Jan 2009, 16:10
:}:}:}

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/uc/20090123/lprc090123.gif

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/umedia/20090123/cp.2a19083c46410b3dc884114b101cd9c3.gif

off centre
23rd Jan 2009, 19:30
Changefest '09 - Obama's Inaugural Speech | The Daily Show | Comedy Central (http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=216538&title=changefest-09-obamas-inaugural)

ORAC
25th Jan 2009, 09:00
Out with the old and in with the........old.

I hate to say I told ya so. OK, maybe I like it just a little bit...... :hmm:

Obama airstrikes kill 22 in Pakistan (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article5581084.ece) Islamabad is the first to get a taste of the president’s ‘tough love’ policy

PAKISTAN received an early warning of what the era of “smart power” under President Barack Obama will look like after two remote-controlled US airstrikes killed 22 people at suspected terrorist hideouts in the border area of Waziristan.

There will be no let-up in the military pressure on terrorist groups, US officials warned, as Obama prepares to launch a surge of 30,000 troops in neighbouring Afghanistan. It is part of a “tough love” policy combining a military crack-down with diplomatic initiatives.

The Pakistani government, which received a visit from General David Petraeus, the chief of US Central Command, on the day of Obama’s inauguration, has been warned that it must step up its efforts against militants if it is to continue to receive substantial military aid from America.

The airstrikes were authorised under a covert programme approved by Obama, according to a senior US official. It was a dramatic signal in the president’s first week of office that there will be no respite in the hunt for Al-Qaeda and Taliban leaders...........

And if Dour Gordon really wants Obama to be his bosom buddy, he'll have to step to the line.....

Barack Obama asks Gordon Brown for more soldiers (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article5581564.ece)

PRESIDENT Barack Obama has asked Britain to supply up to 4,000 extra frontline troops to help a planned American surge of forces in Afghanistan, defence sources say. The request poses a dilemma for Gordon Brown because the Ministry of Defence (MoD) believes it can only spare 1,700 extra troops.

Obama has identified the Afghan conflict as an American priority and wants Britain to be a key partner. The new US strategy is likely to test the “special relationship” between the two allies, putting Brown under pressure to show commitment to the Afghan conflict by announcing an increase in troop numbers.

Patrick Mercer, the Tory MP for Newark and chairman of the Commons counter-terrorism subcommittee, said he understood defence planners had concluded that the army was too overstretched to provide a full brigade. Mercer said he was told the MoD had been informally approached by Obama’s transition team before Christmas, and again this month, with a request to prepare to send a brigade of frontline troops later this year.

“The MoD has decided it can send no more than a battlegroup. It doesn’t have the manpower,” said Mercer. A battlegroup comprises a battalion of 600 infantry plus reconnaissance, artillery and engineers. Defence chiefs also propose sending six Merlin helicopters from Iraq to add to the eight Chinooks in Afghanistan.

Obama is planning an aggressive drive in Afghanistan and Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of the US joint chiefs of staff, has said up to 30,000 extra American troops could be sent by the summer.

parabellum
28th Jan 2009, 04:09
The tally is in ! 2 million people attended the
Inauguration of your new
president. Only 14 missed work !

Highflight420
2nd Feb 2009, 09:01
Just thought it was about time I let vent to my feelings about the present government and the two gentlemen who have occupied the top job in that government, in my opinion amongst the two worst Prime Ministers in the last century.

Just wondered what the rest of you think, don't be shy.

hellsbrink
2nd Feb 2009, 10:02
Hanging's too good for them, Highflight

ford cortina
3rd Feb 2009, 06:57
Guy Fawkes had a bloody good idea

hellsbrink
3rd Feb 2009, 07:38
Is there any of his DNA left so we could clone him?

Hang on, bad idea. They'd give him some sort of non job like "Use of explosives against politicians co-ordinator"...

Fitter2
3rd Feb 2009, 09:04
Anyone remember Jan/Feb 1979?

Unpopular, economically questionable Labour government. Heavy snow. Unions out on strike over anything they could think of.

Fast forward to May, General Election, got rid of the [email protected]@rds.

Then of course, we got Mrs Thatcher......................

hellsbrink
3rd Feb 2009, 09:18
Would you rather have stayed with Callaghan?

dead_pan
3rd Feb 2009, 09:34
You can't blame everything on the Government - that's what we get married for.

In view of the fact that all political parties are inherently useless and will eventually disappoint, maybe we ought to be looking for another system of government? Perhaps we could run the country using the Internet - someone pitches a policy idea on a web-site, we all get to vote on it, and if successful its implemented by a cadre of virtual civil servants. That way if everything turns out cr*p we really do only have ourselves to blame.

hellsbrink
3rd Feb 2009, 09:43
Great idea, dead_pan.... Except


Do we REALLY want the likes of Wayne Rooney aving any influence regarding the way the country is run?

Fitter2
3rd Feb 2009, 12:35
Would you rather have stayed with Callaghan?


Actually, I think St Margaret did a good job for her first 6 years; when did any politician not outstay their welcome?:rolleyes:

Neville Shute had a rather good idea, I forget which book. Every adult gets one vote. You then qualify for extra votes by

(a) defined public service, such as Armed Forces (local councillor does NOT qualify)

(b) higher education (I think if he were writing now media studies degrees would not qualify)

(c) wealth acquired by running a personal business (willingness to take risk and invest in ones own future)

and some others.

A weighted democracy might go some way to improving the system. Modify it so the Scots can't vote on English only issues, make me Prime Minister and we are onto a winner.

Rollingthunder
3rd Feb 2009, 12:48
Jorge Taina, an aide to Argentina's foreign minister, said the move would reopen debate about the future of the islands.

"This circumstance only serves to once again highlight Britain's ongoing military presence in land and sea areas that are part of the Argentine Republic's national territories," he said.

Argentina claims ownership of the islands it calls the Malvinas.

The Sunday Telegraph, quoting RAF News, disclosed that Prince William will be sent to the Falklands by the Royal Air Force to serve as a search and rescue pilot (SAR) for three months, after he completes his 18-month RAF course in 2009.

Britain and Argentina fought over the Falkland islands in 1982, when Argentine forces invaded the islands, prompting Margaret Thatcher to deploy naval forces to retake the territory.

After a near-three month conflict in which 649 Argentines and 255 Britons were killed, Buenos Aires surrendered on June 14 but maintained its claim to the archipelago.

Prince William's uncle, Prince Andrew, took part in the military operation while serving as a helicopter pilot in the Royal Navy.

The Falkland Islands posting is one of the least popular within the armed forces because of its distance from the UK and the weather in the South Atlantic, which for all but a few months of the year, is poor.

The garrison is manned by a small force of 500 troops made up of largely members of the RAF, who support the Tornado and Sea King flights, and around 100 infantry soldiers.

Although the troops are stationed on the islands "to deter military aggression against the South Atlantic overseas territories", according to the Ministry of Defence, most believe there is virtually no chance of the islands ever being attacked again.

bbc online

Tough shit Argentina.I still don't buy your corned beef.

dead_pan
3rd Feb 2009, 12:54
wealth acquired by running a personal business


We kind of already have this. Wealthy businessmen can pay Lords to delay or shelve legislation they don't like the look of.

I'm all for withdrawing the vote from convicted criminals, tabloid readers, or anyone who is certifiably stupid (the last two are the same thing I know).

We need to find a way to give power back to the people. Our version of democracy, which is in effect one party rule by the political elite, just doesn't work.

airship
3rd Feb 2009, 13:01
...according to this BBC news report (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/suffolk/7866646.stm). Just on security...?!

Well, at least it was all spent in UK (plc). And before the current global recession and credit crunch hit (the headlines).

But isn't the average UK house price around £160,000 today? Imagine that, a labour PM whose holiday fortnight costs as much as the average (cash-price) house and which ostensibly, the average UK house buyer slaves away for between 25-30 years in order to repay...?! :uhoh:

Captain Stable
3rd Feb 2009, 13:24
Let's assume 3 officers at any time, round the clock, to guard him (and family) while on hols. Disregard for these purposes the fact that they have their own personal protection people in addition to any local plods.

That's nine officers per day. They can only work five days per week. So you need two teams, each of nine plods. Eighteen officers. Let's assume 16 plods & 2 sergeants.

What's a PC paid nowadays? £25k? and a sergeant? £30k?

Two weeks pay @ £25k =/= £960 x 16 =/= £15,400
Two weeks pay @ £30k =/= £1150 x 2 =/= £2,300

Total bill (or is that total old bill :E ) = £17,700

Can someone please explain how come they spent 9x that amount???? :eek:

airship
3rd Feb 2009, 13:58
Just 3 officers around the clock...?! :ugh:

Perhaps 'everyone else' involved already submitted their bills through the Suffolk Police too...?! (Ie.)1/2 a SAS regiment; continuous Police helicopter (all forces) coverage of the area; US Navy Carrier group offshore (or at least in the Channel / North Sea / North Atlantic) etc..... :ok:

Captain Speedbird
3rd Feb 2009, 14:08
I think we have got it all wrong. One politician is just like any other. Maybe they come at it from different ideologies but their motivation and morals are very much alike. I doubt anyone goes into office meaning to do badly, but therein itself is a problem. If you think you are qualified to do the job, you probably aren't. We are too quick to blame politicians for all our problems. The do make a handy scapegoat, but they only do what they think will keep them in power until the inevitable fall from grace.

The one group we seem to hold innocent are the very group who are guilty. The indolent, greedy, selfish, lazy, instant-gratification bunch of rights obsessed weeds we have become; the electorate. But things are going to change. A rumbling belly puts a whole new perspective on things. There is hope. :}

Captain Stable
3rd Feb 2009, 14:15
airship, on my (back of an envelope) arithmetic you could keep 27 officers on duty round the clock plus the regular protection officers and still not exceed by any significant amount the bill submitted.

Orvil
3rd Feb 2009, 14:41
The war in Afgan/Pakistan could be solved in a few hours. Nuke them! Why send more troops? Can't see the point.

The British Nuclear deterent is coming towards it's use-by-date and it'll be a shame to dismantle them. It'll also be good to see how many of them actually work, probably not many.

I hear you cry, "what about the innocents?" , yeah, right. A bit like those British citizens who went to Afgan for "Charity work" but ended up in Cuba.

Also whats the point of having Nukes if ya' not going to use them?

Orvil

ORAC
3rd Feb 2009, 15:39
Can someone please explain how come they spent 9x that amount???? Take a team of 3 and add a fourth man to cover for illness, sickness etc. Add on an allowance of drivers, HQ radio operators etc. Add on radio relay and other units when in remote locations (RAF Tac Comms Wing etc).

Multiply all manpower numbers by 30% to cover associated need for training, HR, payroll and other necessary support. Multiply all direct pay costs by 40% to cover tax/NI and other overheads.

Add in cost of all vehicles, radios and other equipment either at rental rates or in amortization costs over 3-5 years.

I can't remember the exact figures but for an airman on about 20K a year the overall costs including amortizing his traning worked out at about 80-100K a year.

160K actually seems on the low side. They should hire a new accountant......

Curious Pax
3rd Feb 2009, 15:49
And it's all a silly calculation anyway - would the people in question not be getting paid if they weren't minding Gordon?

Fitter2 hints at the right idea - Prime Ministers ought to be limited to 2 terms after achieving high office, and those 2 terms ought to be fixed length, not the randomness we have now. The current system encourages short term thinking, because as soon as 2 years has passed since an election (or if the PM changes mid term even sooner) the speculation immediately starts on when the next election will be. The party in power also start trying to position themselves so that they have as wide a window as possible when things might be going well enough to get them re-elected, which doesn't help create sensible policies.

Captain Stable
3rd Feb 2009, 18:12
CP, I had never much considered fixed vs variable terms of office before now. Now that you mention it, I find I have to agree. And I find that five years is too long, and quite like the 4-year terms allowed to US Presidents.