Helicopters vs HMRC

[docstone]

A question to UK folks - anyone had any experiences dealing with HMRC and their view on treatment of helicopters (not personal tax please, corporate only). Having a rather frustrating dialogue with our Revenue friends, war stories and guidance much appreciated.

[Whirlygig]

Are you an AOC operator offering corporate/charter flights or a pivate owner wanting to put the cost of a helicopter through a business? If the latter, your main obstacle is persuading the revenue that the costs and purchase are a legitimate business expense and that private use will be declared accordingly.

Cheers

Whirls

[Tailboom]

I had a problem years ago when Customs + Excise said I couldn't claim the whole amount of the vat on a Hughes 300c i'd bought through my garage business, the inspector said I could claim some of it, but as he put it I might be flying home from business and decide to land in a pals house, that part of the trip would be classed as private, so then he couldn't allow all of the claim, I argued the point that if i'd hired a car to do the same trip we would not be having the conversation and eventually they relented. In saying that it was about 12/13 years ago and there wern't that many private helis flying around South Wales at the time.

[FLY 7]

Someone raised a similar question some weeks ago, asking whether there were any accountants specialising in the tax treatment of helicopters.

Don't think there were many recommendations, which is a shame. With ownership costs so high and marginal, access to expert financial guidance could be very handy.

[docstone]

We're owners, our aircraft are managed under an AOC by a respected opertaor - HMRC getting heated about what they see as a lease agreement

[John R81]

Depends which part of HMRC you are arguing with; VAT or personal/business tax. I am assuming VAT, but if not then ignore.

For VAT rcovery there is an "expert", a guy named Daniel Barlow. He works out of the Reading office of Deloitte, and his number is available if you PM me but the general office number can found on their website
Deloitte UK | Deloitte in the South East | Audit, Tax, Corporate Finance | South East England - Deloitte LLP (http://www.deloitte.com/dtt/article/0,1002,sid%253D2828%2526cid%253D190806,00.html)

I believe he has had some significant successes! He may also know a direct tax guy (if that is your issue).

VAT recovery fight can take two lines. 1) Private use; and 2) your helicopter purchase is an "investment", not a business. There is a fine line to tread and "expert" help seems to be a must. HMRC attitude is based on Yatch purchases, which they applied to fixed wing, then moved on to Helicopters. HMRC are fond of quoting decided cases to show that you can't have the VAT back, but "forget" to tell you about the cases whicht he taxpayer won!

[wallism]

Are you a member of AOPA? They gave me good advice. I bought a used R44 via a partnership which is on lease back to an AOC operator and I got the whole VAT amount back by return of post. I pay our company for the hours I fly just like the other operator do, so that was removed from the argument.