Layoffs at REX- Cadets to go first?!

[Asinus asinum fricat]

Have just heard from a reliable source that the Rex Chairman himself (LKH) has just announced that staff will be retrenched, especially amongst flight crew?!

This due to the financial crisis and corresponding reduced schedules.

Hopefully this isn't the case, as the cadets especially, who have just outlayed large sums of money and effort may now find themselves out of work?!

:ugh:

[eternity]

When this whole 'economic crisis' began, there were all sorts of experts/boffins predicting all sorts of financial atrocities.

However, despite their wide and varied predictions, they do seem to agree on a few points.

1. The Oz economy and global economy is expected to hit the bottom of the tub sometime in the next 6 months.

2. The recovery is expected to be quite rapid, with most agreeing that a significant improvement will begin sometime during the 2nd half of this year.

Despite the well illustrated 'questionable' intelligence of some airline management, I fully expect that they are reading the same information as I am.
As a result, I think that many airlines throughout the country are being quite reluctant to layoff pilots, as all indications are showing that the next shortage will begin sometime during this year.
The most recent shortage really deomstarted to airlines how true the saying is "It takes one month for a pilot to resign, but 4 months to replace him".

I think that your "reliable source" might be jumping the gun a tad there.


Eternity.

[Chadzat]

Why then are they still conducting interviews? I know that the left hand doesn't always talk to the right hand in management, but i doubt they would get it THIS wrong.

[KRUSTY 34]

For your first post A.a.f., it's certainly a beaut'!

I have been predicting this situation for some time. When you consider that the pilot numbers at REX are now some 10% in excess of what they were 2 years ago (prior the massive attrition, and prior to the reduced schedule), what you are saying is not as far fetched as it may sound. The problem is, the crisis regarding the severe shortage of Captains has in no way been adressed. Sound familiar? I recently flew with an F/O who showed me 8 days of straight reserve on his roster!!! What we have now is a bottom heavy seniority list, the responsibilty of which lies squarely at the feet of REX management.

I must however agree with eternity. Probably jumping the gun a little, even when dealing with a pathalogically reactive mangement.

Although I hear what you are saying Chadzat, don't underestimate the capacity of these guys to get it wrong either.

Interesting times for all concerned!

[Asinus asinum fricat]

Jumping the gun a little?

Please, would someone then confirm or deny the following comments.....

However we have now come to the point where I can no longer defer a decision which I have only made once before some 5 years ago.


We will need to retrench staff, especially amongst the flight crew, as flying activity reduces.

I am mindful of the hardship and turmoil that retrenchment would bring but I have a higher responsibility to ensure the financial health of the entire group.

:confused:

[Arnold E]

I think it is optimistic in the extreme to belive that things will improve within a year, in fact, I think it may take an eternity. We aint seen nuthin' yet:sad::sad:

[PPRuNeUser0161]

I think they should sit for a bit and enjoy their time with 10% more crew than required. Another year and the FO's will be OK. Or, perhaps they have intended to over recruit with the intention of retrenching as a message to those fighting the EBA.

This is fine of course so long as the majors don't start recruiting again.

SN

[The_Pharoah]

so I'm assuming that the cadets who get 'retrenched' will also get their money back? :confused:

[KRUSTY 34]

A.a.f.

The quotes you posted, are they from LKH? If they are, then what we have been thinking may be coming to pass. My remark about "Jumping the gun" was not meant to offend. I guess untill it's made public, it's just another rumour, but even I didn't think they would do it so soon!

As for the Cadets getting their money back, I suppose it all depends on the "contract". I'd be surprised however if they weren't at least billed for the training they have recieved to date.

A hard lesson, and another nail in the coffin of the profession.

[apache]

aaf....

it is all very well to wrap quote tags around a bunch of words. It is another thing entirely to say where the quotes came from!

Can you please tell us where these immortal(immoral?) words are written? , or if you are quoting someone on here.... who, and what post!

[Wally Mk2]

Gee I hope this is just only a rumor, it will be a sad day if it does indeed go ahead (layoffs). I think the question here (rather than what's being asked) is more do the statements made match a question? As in is REX in that level of poo to do such a thing at the moment given the current training of cadets? To some yes, to others maybe not. Time will tell & if it does come to light these comments then the industry is becoming very rocky indeed. Do we need to 'fall down' before we can stand tall again?



Wmk2

[aerocom]

Coments from LKH in company Friday Files. Also makes mention of a freight downturn so lay offs could be Pel Air as well. Qantas cadets have also been knocking at the door looking for jobs. Maybe a bit of scare tactics as there is also reference to the EBA. In a seperate article in the paper there is a write up on cancelled services due to no crew. Time will tell.

[QF411]

Surely they wouldn't let the Pel Air guys go, especially the ones who have just signed up for the Saab?

[KRUSTY 34]

Should've checked the Friday files first.

Ominous that LKH says "We will need to retrench staff, especially amongst flight crew...", not we may have to retrench (my bolding). Seems fairly clear to me! I agree however with aerocom about the industrial tactic. seems as though this sword may have more than one edge.

For those who may be given the chop, your seniority will be preserved. Last on first off, so try to take some comfort in that.

As for the Cadets, your relative seniority will determine just where you stand. For those in training and have yet to recieve a seniority number, it may be prudent to start looking at other options. It's anyone's guess what the delay will be. :(

As far as Pel-Air is concerned, my understanding is different company within the group, different EBA, different seniority list (if that applies). If seniority does apply, it won't matter what equipment you are on. Last on, First off. I've seen it in action before, and mangement will not hesitate to liquidate your services if you are deemed surplus to requirements!

[apache]

So, Krusty,

do you reckon that the Quid Pro Quo will be that IF the pilot body capitulates on the EBA, and accepts the same sh!tty deal as last time, then layoffs MAY be avoided?

If they are using this as a bargaining tool, then this is a new low... even for them!

IF however, it is genuine, and times are really tough, then i feel sorry for any of those who are on the chopping block.

Gut feeling is that it is the former!

[goatwhacker]

Very interesting. For the last eighteen months or so LKH has been bleating on about a pilot shortage. To suddenly threaten layoffs - and specifically mention flight crew as a target - is most intriguing.

To then go on and talk about EBA committees in the last paragraph seals it in my eyes. What's the only employee group with a yet-to-be-finalised EBA? It's nothing more than a declaration of war on the pilots.

Until there is sufficient reserve coverage to deal with the daily disruptions that are a part of life in any airline, there are not enough crew. So they go from not enough pilots to suddenly having too many? Just wait until the schedule ramps back up to normal levels over the next month or so.


:ugh:

[KRUSTY 34]

I reckon it's probably a bit of both apache. Times are unusual. Pax numbers and revenues are down (although not unexpected for this time of year). Total company debt is a whopping $1mil! Hardly cause for concern there. The agenda has always been to keep a lid on T&C's, even in good times. It's a well known fact that REX have reacted poorly to the pilot shortage. We now have a surplus of pilots, but are still cancelling services due to a lack of crew! It ain't rocket science, but they have already sounded load and clear their opposition to any form of retention. Ergo, too many F/O's, not enough Captains.

So I think the little fella from Singapore may just be on the level when he says people will go. Their excuse of course is always due to circumstances outside their control. The fact that they have over-recruited the wrong pilots won't even rate a mention. If by chance the elimination of a few will quell the dissent amongst the rest, then all the better! sort of like what the French generals did in WW1!

[chimbu warrior]

A search of recent announcements to the ASX (several from Rex, but on other matters), gives no hint of this.

If true (retrenchments), might be in breach of disclosre rules...............

[KRUSTY 34]

So far it's only in the Company newsletter (read propaganda mag') chimbu.

Chr!st only knows what they're up to? :suspect:

[Wally Mk2]

hey 'krusty' despite all the goings on at REX I still hear around the traps that REX are getting pilot applications all the time with interviews?
I guess they have a high failure rate of those applicants as in don't get past the first interview.
The older ones that I chat too frm the KD days say they thank their lucky stars they got out (for whatever reason) when they did.
Rex just seems to project tyranny (is that correct spelling police?) towards their pilots, that must be wearing a lot down there.
I hope the REX pilots can stand their round for a while yet.

Wmk2

[KRUSTY 34]

Like most things Wal', there's good and bad, rumour, but often an element of truth, and things sometimes being blown out of proportion.

Are REX pilots being paid up to 20% below industry standard? Absolutely!

Are the pilots p!ssed off about that? You betcha!

Is it rule by fear? probably a little tougher to answer, but I'll try. Essentially the Check and training has remained unchanged, but the knife at checks is definitely a lot sharper. In addition there are now new elements (Check focus items) that are assesed. If the pilot(s) under check fail to answer these proficiently then they fail! REX are reacting to a nervous regulator in this regard. Are REX pilots being given the additional training required to meet this new level of scrutiny. Definitely not! This being a function of a chronic lack of resources. Needless to say, many now go into these checks with a higher level of trepidation than in the past. Quite often this is enough to push some over the edge. Knowledge, (and in this case practice) does dispell fear. The opposite may go some way to explaining the elevated failure rate we are now seeing?

As far as continueing to interview after the Chairman has stated publicly that jobs will go? That doesn't surprise me one little bit. Some 15 years ago Impulse airlines interviewed approx 200 pilots Australia wide for some 20 positions, and do you know why? Because they could! The fact that a large proportion of those candidates were well qualified and had spent considerable time and money to attend, was of no concern for those characters, and why should REX be any different. Just look at the goings on across the road at QFLink!

[puff]

They still have not removed the open jobs on the rex site for both pilots for rex and pel-air.

[Mudflat]

Gee, as if we didn't see this coming from the almighty LKH. He will say and do anything to avoid giving flightcrew the pay rise and conditions they deserve...is it a coincidence that the EBA is still up in the air? It's clear he can't sack ground or ops staff as he barely employes enough staff to fill the positions required to run the airline on the ground as it is.

I've bought up this point in the past...but as it's valid I'll say it again. Does LKH know how much $$$ is being flushed down the dunny (if your reading this LKH, thats Aussie for toilet) by the head of (I use this next word very losely) training and checking?? One very insecure and disturbed ego is responsible for costing the company hundreds of thousands of $$ per year.

I'd love to know how much rex has forked out over the past couple of years in:
training costs related with replacing experienced captains that until he got in control were going to stay at rex for life,
training costs related with "re-training" pilots for failing checks because they went 4kg out of tolerance with the fuel embalance when OEI, and similar pathetic discrepencies,
costs related with replacing perfectly competent check and trainers with "captain taking over's" that are more nervous in the left hand seat of the Saab than a FA flying with Capt No-experience and FO Cadet:eek: when there are a couple of clouds in the sky.

And while im at it, Mr head of check and training...the whole company knows that after you put in a pathetic effort in the sim, the spineless checker gave you your own assesment form to fill in...hahahahaha no suprise that you passed yourself...nice way to get respect from the troops.

LKH...if you can't afford to run an airline, then don't. Sell up and do something else. Rex flightcrew deserve a healthy pay rise and impoved conditions as you have built up a little fortune on the backs of these hard working guys and girls. maybe instead of paying cash for your planes, you should start parting with some cash for your flightcrew.

[Muff Hunter]

c'mon guys please...........

this is nothing more than scare tactics from that little pice of ****e from singers....

there will be no sackings, just a very sub-standard eba voted up by scared fo's.....

CH, NH, JD and co hang your heads in shame......you have all allowed this to happen........

fark i'm glad i left that 2 bit op when i did!!

[KRUSTY 34]

Gidday Mudflat. Don't hold back mate, say what you really think. All jokes aside though, the frustration is palatable.

I don't know Muff'? My money is on at least 10, mabye 20! I've seen it before. The arrogant belief that "we will always get pilots" is alive and well in the hallowed halls at REX. It's this pervading mindset that has seen the massive disruption to a once proud organisation.

If retrenchments don't happen, nobody will be happier than me (you see I've been there myself, several times!!), and I will gladly admit my error. However, I reckon they will go ahead, if for nothing else than as a warning to the others! :(

[sockedunnecessarily]

Let me get this right...

The long term pilots at Rex want more money.
So to prevent paying it, they are threatening job cuts.
These job cuts will come from the bottom of the seniority pile, which is all their cadets and South Effrican imports anyway.
The ones who actually have a spine will not be the ones losing their jobs.

Buy 6 glass cockpit aircraft .... very expensive.
Start a flying academy .... very expensive.
Give scholarships and partial scholarships to students .... very expensive.
Pay for South Effrican imports to move to Australia .... very expensive.
Then retrench them all anyway because you've got too many!!!!!

IT WOULD HAVE BEEN CHEAPER TO JUST PAY A BIT MORE TO THE PILOTS YOU ALREADY HAD YOU :mad: IDIOT.

What an unbelievable waste of time, effort and money for the sake of one rich man's pride. He will never, ever be big enough to admit he was wrong.

If it's not pilot shortage, it's pilot excess. Or fuel prices. Or world economic crisis. Or Aussie dollar falling so engine maintenance costs "spiralling". There will always been an excuse so they can paint a dark scary picture. Retrenchments is just another fear tool that the majority are not buying.

SHOW US THE MONEY. :D

[TweetTweet]

It is has definitely got to be a scare tactic........... and for all you relatively new F/O's on the list or cadets..... don't be suckered into the fear tactics! We have fought for way too long to have you all cave in and vote for a crappy EBA. (when it comes along again).

This is exactly what LKH wants........ lets not give it to the bastard!
:} :=

[Radar340A]

F:mad:k it... Does anyone really care anymore? We have been being painted a ****ty picture for months now even when things were going well. We have been lied to after accepting the last eba. Management give directions to screw us over as much as possible, and they can’t even cough up a wage comparable with CPI. So why give a flying F:mad:k about them, the company, or anything. Honestly, 150%, I'll give you my 5% and 5 cents worth! After all thats all you think i'm worth.

[Curved Approach]

Does he (LKH) seriously expect people to buy into his garbage??? :confused:

To firstly clear the matter of retrenchments if it ever came to that I believe it would be last on first off situation. I think we will see something similiar with Pelair as we did with AirLink. The metro runs will be scaled back (aircraft sold) and freight runs profitable for a much smaller Pelair Saab fleet will continue. This will be where retrenchments, if any, occur.

With the Australian aviation industry forecast (take it as you may) set to pick up again over the next 6 to 12 month period LKH would be mad to retrench Rex Saab tech crew. It has been mentioned here of the full ranks, some 262 pilots. Looking closely at this list with the current Captain shortage, particularly in Sydney, there are really only enough command eligible F/Os to see out the next 12 to 18 months. This of course can be increased by reducing the Pelair operation and bringing it closer to the Rex one.

With the schedule now resuming to its normal capacity we should start to hear more and more from crewing how hard they have to work to crew uncrewed sectors on a day to day basis.

Off Topic: Pilot's EBA Negotiations

I believe the 9x3x3 suggested split of 15% over 3 years is half way there in the first year. It needs to be more in line with the initial claim made; ie the $82 - 100K for command base salary.

I would like to see a claim made of at least 17% x 2.5% x 2.5% with the following increases linked to CPI. ie 2.5% or CPI whichever is greater. It is a sceaming hole (IMHO) in our EBA that it is not linked to CPI. With the ridiculous extension payments the company has put on the table which fall way short and the casual day payments not much better than they are now I believe we must seek this base increase.

You need to understand the arrogant culture of the man we are dealing with, he will do anything to save face as we have and are seeing. I for one will not be bullied, tricked and scared into voting for a lesser EBA than deserved. Perhaps if LKH can not stand the heat in this Australian kitchen then he should leave!

[Altimeters]

I'm hearing people saying that it may not be Rex. It could be Pel-Air and the decreasing amount of freight meaning getting rid of some metro drivers? :uhoh:

[strut5]

.......don't count on your seniority kids, it would be cheaper to drop 25 FO's (not Cadets, he has invested in these) and 25 captains (no downtraining costs). Individual performance may be considered -remember the "company requirements" clause?:\

[Muff Hunter]

maybe the cadets are not coming to a suitable standard and the company will cut their loses instead of spending massive amounts of money training to get these guys to a safe level...

remember, ask NH, the saab is as close to the space shuttle as you can get!!

[KRUSTY 34]

Gidday strut'.

I Hear what you are saying. In fact the original EBA as presented to the pilot group back in 02' had all references to seniority removed!

The Hazelton pilot group identified this and other lttle "nasties" and by voting no, forced a more equitable change. One of which was the reinstatement of seniority. The "needs of the company" clause was inserted by management as a sort of "saftey" net by which they could do pretty much what they want if necessary. Or so they thought.

The problem is, this ability to "do as we please" so to speak has been effectively removed due to precedent. Now nothing would surprise me, but it would be a foolish management indeed if they attempted to try that one on, just to save a few bucks. To attempt to justify the retrenchment of a senior pilot over a more junior one, because the junior pilot is paid less, would certainly raise a few eyebrows in the IRC to say the least. Hell, the payout of the senior Pilot's entitlements alone would destroy any such arguement in that area. As well as that, the retrenched pilot retains his/her seniority position for at least 2 years.

More grief than it would be worth!

[sockedunnecessarily]

Read your EBA more carefully strut. They need union approval to retrench outside of seniority. The AFAP would never allow it.

[max autobrakes]

That would have to be what's called a leap of faith wouldn't it sockedunnecessarily:ok:

[pjam]

Krusty,

Can you please explain what it means when you say a retrenched pilot will retain their seniority for 2 years? If they are no longer with the company how can this be important?

Thanks.

[Capt Claret]

pjam, under past industrial law, retrenched pilots had first refusal on positions with the employer, for periods of up to 3 years, or until they knock back an offer.

[Curved Approach]

Read your EBA gent's....5 years.

38.5 Re-employment (if you are really that keen!!!!)
38.5.1 A pilot whose service is terminated due to redundancy or who terminates service whilst under notice of termination due to redundancy in order to take up alternative duties as a pilot will maintain their right for re-employment with the Employer for five (5) years or until offered re-employment, which is subsequently rejected by the pilot, whichever occurs first....

38.5.2 A pilot shall retain their relative position in the seniority list for the purposes of access to re-employment under clause 38.5.1



On another note.....

It is indeed a shame that the global economy is in turmoil and redundancies are being seen world wide across all industries but I see it as an even bigger shame if we do not act as a pilot body to increase our base salary. The sacrifices made by staff across the board since the merging of the two companies to build a strong viable airline are over due to be recognised by the company.

What do you think will be LKH's story 3 years down the track from now at the next EBA if we decide to defer any decent claim till then....crying poor yet again with different reasons. Seen it before, seeing it now and of course we'll see it again!

I still believe now is still the time to act on our low base. We do however need to be careful in our claims to limit these threatened redundancies. We all know a certain Singaporean will cut his nose off to spite his face; but won't we need the crew to move back into QLD!!!! Thoughts?

Interesting links RE: Maca*r demise....
ABC (http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/01/22/2471703.htm)
ASIC (http://www.search.asic.gov.au/cgi-bin/gns030c?acn=073_278_378&juris=9&hdtext=ACN&srchsrc=1)

[KRUSTY 34]

Sorry C/A my bad.

It is 5 years, hadn't had my morning cofee!

[Mr. Hat]

how do you really feel about it?

[apache]

A bit childish, LKL.

[Horatio Leafblower]

So... Who knows a Rex pilot doing renovations? :uhoh:

[Asinus asinum fricat]

Really quite pathetic and childish Lim Kim Lie, I strongly suggest that you remove the picture. (or maybe the mods could save him the trouble?)

:ugh:

[fritzandsauce]

LK Lie

If you feel that strongly why don't you leave the company?

If you have already left why dwell on the past its not your worry anymore?

If you have never had anything to do with the company why the hell did you bother?

Were all "Mature" Adults :rolleyes:

[Mr. Hat]

well it is in the colour scheme though...:E

[TweetTweet]

Just to put everyones mind at ease............... those of you who work at REX......... redundancies from what I have been told on the inside, will not be from REX mainline.
Rex have just taken on some more direct entry pilots who may be starting a course in April..... so it is all just a wind up most probably the scare tactic for the EBA.

So lets stop worrying about it!
:D

[FlyingChipmunk]

Errr Tweet,
not sure what you've been hearing, but nobody at REX have been the least perturbed by the EBA scare tactics....in fact, alot are saying, "Bring it on!, we'd like to see how it would be carried out :D....."

[lamax]

Rex pilots may not be perturbed by so called management threats to EBA negotiations but they should be concerned with the two edged sword hovering over them - drought and recession which are the greatest threats to regional airline operators. REX management may not be flavour of the month but they do run a tight ship , the very qualities we demand of companies in which our superannuation is invested. Whatever action REX pilots take in relation to their demands I hope they remember a Don Kendell quote " I'm not your pay master , it's your customers who pay your bills and if you value your situation in these troubled times them you must meet their expectations". Yes an old quote but relevant to the several recessions I've experienced in the last 40 years.

[Stationair8]

A very valid comment Lamax!

[drshmoo]

Lamax - Thank you for your sage advice. Hows the aircon in the office?

Rex Pilots - Just a few points to remember

Mac @ir are gone. QLD is on LKHs ajenda. Its gonna happen. QL cant fill the entire void. They are gonna push north and need more pilots to do this.

A close friend of mine, who is a Rex F/A checks their crew on crewnet before going to work. At least half the time they have not crewed one or both of the pilot positions. They have an oversupply of pilots - :}:}:ugh::ugh:

EBA scare tactic.

As for the checky who needs a hug. I heard a story about a socked captain who had to take a 30s bathroom break at an outport and (OMG):eek: didn't remember to put on his hat. The (need a hug) checky had it written on the official report. This moron should be more interested in imparting knowledge to the masses, not just being the "feared checky".

The best C&T pilots are there to make you better, not just there to glorify themselves and make you think - wow, they know their stuff. But these show ponies exist in all airlines.

Good luck to the Rex Pilot Group in their EBA negotiations

LKH has nothing on the crap that Dixon and his cronnies spun for the last decade

[Ron_E_Xenos]

Rex are still short of pilots overall, so with a little action, action might happen.There wont be any layoffs.

:E

[KRUSTY 34]

Ron.

REX have 10-12% more pilots than 2 years ago. ie; 240 then as opposed to 260+ now! This is despite the shedule being significantly reduced over that period.

Sy-Com Gone!
Gth-Mel Gone!
Sy-Wwl Gone!
Sy-Arm Gone!
Sy-Mia Gone!
Ad-Old Gone!
Bn-Myb Gone!Also a reduction in the frequency of many of the surviving routes!

Captains are still being called regularily on their days off, and when these pilots go sick, flights are still being cancelled due lack of crew! How is this possible?

It's possible because in their attempt to mitigate the shortage of pilots, the Rocket Scientists (REX management) embarked on an orgy of recruitment. Problem is the pilots they recruited (only one's they could get for the Crap T&C's) are mostly made up of Cadets and low timers who cannot hold a command!

Ego, Shortage of Captains, oversupply of F/O's!

I honestly hope there will be no redundancies. Make no mistake however, as soon as it becomes definite that these guys are surplus to requirements, REX will cut them loose in a heartbeat!

[Rural]

drshmooo, I don't think you should assume "lamax" works in an office just because his post makes sense.

We have seen shifts in the economic conditions in the last 6 months that normally take +10 years to unfold and unfold steadily.

Should't the QF results announcment of 2 days ago and Macair shutting the doors completely (only today) be opening some eyes!

What's going on in the real world is more important than everyone babbling on about about whatever was in Rex's internal message from their boss.

The poor guys at Macair don't have a job!!

[louiethefly]

Well said Rural, the economy is like a bushfire, now everything is happening more quickly,but no-one would agree that we didn't see it coming! The problem at REX is that it is being used to justify a lack of real action on the EBA. There is also a campaign going on that is transparently aimed at the pilots through various avenues to discredit. The integrity of this campaign closely resembles the integrity of those running it! There is also a better way to keep standards than using practices that come out of some sort of human resources Ark, as someone mentioned, it is money wasted that could be better used,say, to provide well maintained GSE.( gee, could you really save money that way??). Good,innovative leadership seems to be a lost skill, and the endemic C and T methods that punish, assist in creating the current atmosphere of cynicism. REX used to be a fun place to work, but now you just have to make your own! It's certainly unusual to feel that you have more honesty and integrity than the people that manage you, but then that maxim could also apply to most of our pollies!:ugh:

[aerocom]

Rural Not sure were your post is leading and am not having a dig at you but Guys at REX babling about there internal memo is well founded, why should we work for less just because of current times. We have all worked hard for the company on days off and leave periods during times of good fortune and now deserve what we are worth. I cant see one wing low taking any less money for his share of things. Have heard 5% increase has been accepted but not back dated but is just a rumor. Everyone it REX stand up for what you are worth, just because other companies close shop for what ever reason you should not have to do a job for crap money.

[SIUYA]

Dear aerocom,

I think you really need to have a a Bex, a nice cup of tea, and a a lie down.

Then once 'refreshed' you need to go and have a look at the Supply vs. Demand module in Economics for Dummies so that you can 're-base' your philosophy of:

why should we work for less just because of current times.


Well, the simple fact is, aerocom, that once unemployment starts to really bite (and it hasn't yet), then supply (of labour) > demand (for labour) will sheet home the reality to you that you will be paid what the employer can afford to pay in its/his/her attempt to remain in business, and not one cent more. Of that you can be sure!

I really look in almost total disbelief at your statement:

just because other companies close shop for what ever reason you should not have to do a job for crap money

Oh dear. :ugh:

Here's the REALLY bad news for you aerocom ..........if YOUR employer closes shop or substantially continues to scale back OR cancell scheduled services to/from regional centres because supply > demand as a result of many too many folks in rural Oz who can't afford to use your employer's services (and if you come from rural Oz, then believe me aerocom, it's getting pretty close to that now in a lot of areas in SE Oz because of a variety of reasons......economic, drought and NOW fire disasters) then YOU won't be getting just 'crap money' I'm afraid if your job goes.........nope......you'll be getting 'f*ck-all money'.

Try working for yourself aerocom..........you may find that if you did, then your present attitudes would probably change quite dramatically.

Having said all that, I sincerely hope that all of you folks at REX get the increase that you DO deserve, and that it's backdated as well!

Cheers,

SIUYA

[apache]

SIUYA,

I think that your post was a bit harsh, and near sighted.
Over the past 4 or so years, REX have posted record profits, thanks largely to the fact that the employees 8 years ago accepted a lower wage to HELP the company stay in business.
The company has not only stayed in business, it has grown exponentially, and -as I have already said- made record profits.
The employees who have ALREADY effectively taken a wage cut over the last 8 years are sick and tired of hearing about doom and gloom from a cut throat oriental businessman who bullies his way around the negotiating table.
EVERY single time the EBA is up for renewal, he scream blue murder, and threatens to shut the business down if pilots aren't "reasonable" in their demands.
IMMEDIATELY after the EBA is signed, and for the period of the EBA less six months, he will gloat about how good a businerss he is running, and thanks everybody for their hard work, and air travel is now cheaper than it was 14 years ago, and the company is debt free, and putting money in the bank and buying new assets etc etc etc......

ALL OFF THE BACK OF A COUPLE OF HUNDRED UNDERPAID WORKERS!

All he is doing is bringing asian sweatshop conditions to OZ.... THE very same sweatshop conditions that every bleeding heart activist complains about every time there is a news article about it.

IF the pilots accept a substandard EBA again this time, then he will continue to offer less and less, and eventually it will be more affordable to be on the dole than be a rex pilot.

If the pilots do NOT make a stand this time... then when?
in three years, when he cries poor again? In two years when he cries that pilots are not loyal, and bigger companies are "poaching" his pilots again because they get paid better in the bigger airlines? maybe in one year when the economic downturn has turned the corner and is on the up and up, but "this is no time to be getting ahead of ourselves and paying more JUST because the outlook is better" ?

Whichever way it goes, HE WILL CRY POOR time and time again. He will NOT listen to rational argument as to WHY "his" pilots are leaving for greener pastures, and he is the only one to blame when pilots leave his airline for better money.

Guys are even looking at going to QLINK at the moment. Basically, a 1st yr captain (DE) on a DHC-8 will make MORE money than a 10th yr captain on the SF340.... with BETTER conditions.
If QLINK are having trouble finding experienced drivers to put in the LHS of a dash... then go across the tarmac and offer D/E commands... that will certainly plug a few holes in the rats side of town.

Either LKH and the mangement team need to LISTEN... or all they will hear is silence, as the CT7's won't be turning.

[SIUYA]

Apache..............

Near sighted and harsh?

I don't think so, particularly with the economic forecast for Australia showing continued decline in GDP for 2009, and a continued increase in the unemployment rate. Economic data is also showing that there was a smaller than expected 'spend' ($700m) of the December handout ($8.7bn), and an increase in debt repayment as the average Australian tried to increase his/her saving rate. So reduced spending IS the reality apache, particularly in regional Australia, as I tried to imply. And it's going to affect outfits like REX and also delay the eventual economic recovery.

Read what lamax said:
Rex pilots may not be perturbed by so called management threats to EBA negotiations but they should be concerned with the two edged sword hovering over them - drought and recession which are the greatest threats to regional airline operators.

Read also the quote that Lamax attributes to Don Kendell:
"I'm not your pay master, it's your customers who pay your bills and if you value your situation in these troubled times them you must meet their expectations".

Read also what rural said about the economy, and also louiethefly's comment on the rapidity of change in the economy.

Are they all near sighted too? :confused:

As I said in my previous post to aerocom, try working for yourself..........you may find that if you did, then your present attitudes would probably change quite dramatically.

But then again, they probably wouldn't if you persist in the belief that there's fairies at the bottom of the garden who are going to give you a nice big payrise in the present economic climate, just because you want one. :rolleyes:

Good luck when you go out and try selling that concept to the folks who have already lost their jobs because of the current downturn! They're the ones who are UNDERPAID!

So apache, if the grass is greener on the other side of the fence (as you suggest it is), then I guess it's entirely up to you where you want to be.

[Horatio Leafblower]

Siuya

I think you'll find Apache pre-empted your advice about 18 months ago... but still cares about the company and his former workmates because he is a GOOD BLOKE :ok:

[GApilut]

IF the Air Traffic controllers can stick together and organise industrial action/Strike action then why can't the REX pilots????:ugh::ugh:

[woopwoopphuckphuck]

I am ex KD then AN in late 1990's now out of the game in the finance game. Yes our complany has done many a study on REX. It has even been noted here by directors that while the company has very strong financials and is very well run there has been many a discussion in analytical meetings that the coy has been far too draconian in staff relations and as such we have a DONT BUY recommendation on ethical grounds as well as large concerns that trouble is a potential factor. Many factors have been mainly based on simple business fundamentals but on a secondary level these factors have also been raised. It has also been discussed that the SE Asian office has placed on the table that the directors are considered in such a way that the company cannot be recommended either, note i havent said anything and between the lines analysis must be employed. From my perspective a recent survey from the business roundup states that the aveage salary for front desk phone receptionists is now 48K..which is more than a Saab FO. The salary is less now that in the previous 9 years and yet all costs of living have gone up. I guess it takes a special person to sleep straight at night. In saying this i am directly pointing the finger at the heads of the Operations dept as it is easily seen in the fin reports how much they are making. Personally i believe they have sold their souls for personal gain. Suiya if u are an emplyee then u are a perfect employee because u will accept a lowering in your package.

Business has a responsibilty to the bottom line and shareholders primarially but they also have a secondary responsibility to the staff, and once the staff are paid at levels where they are under immense financial stress then they are NOT good corportate citizens.

I myself have family that live at a port where REX services. I choose to drive now and I can tell u that the people in the bush are well and truly aware of being hoodwinked about REX and their heart is in the counrty retoric. Many are becomming aware that its a singaporean business and many are also aware that the staff ar being poorly treated and that does not go down well in the bush. I do not speak from personal viewpoints. One man I know is a grazier from Nyngan who was a very frequest flyer. He is absolutely stern in telling all and sundry at his local NEVER to fly REX

The directors built the coy up and all credit to them however if they only had of being good corporate citizens they would still be respected out in the bush

Suiya there can be no doubt that u are from management. Do you not care about the welfare of the staff that are earning less today than they were 9 years ago. You sir if that is the case are a person that does not deserve to be apart of the general community if u dont give two hoots about individuals.

[Curved Approach]

http://www.pprune.org/d-g-reporting-points/361920-rex-eba-put-vote-no-back-pay.html#post4713168

Started post here....as we have meandered quite off topic thought it best to start under new thread. refer above link for EBA going to the vote etc etc.

[SIUYA]

woopwoopphuckphuck

Suiya there can be no doubt that u are from management.

Correct!

Of my own business! Nothing to do with Rex, I'm pleased to say. :ok:

I suppose that you have similarly well-researched evidence to back up your other assertions about the opinions of folks in the bush, but which seems to be based on the views of one grazier from Nyngan while he's at the pub? :D

[SIUYA]

One more thing woopwoop whatever...........

Have another look at the last paragraph of my post (#56) before you decide to make yourself look (even more) idiotic again by posting more crap like you did when trying to have a go at me.

I said:
Having said all that, I sincerely hope that all of you folks at REX get the increase that you DO deserve, and that it's backdated as well!

So.........I'd guess that really warrants SOME retraction of your dopey comment:

You sir if that is the case are a person that does not deserve to be apart of the general community if u dont give two hoots about individuals. :E