Flying around Europe

[DomTatro]

Hey all,

I am a US commercial Pilot whom flies and manages a US registered Pilatus PC-12 and in April/May I will be flying the aircraft to Europe to hop the owner around his European properties during the summer season. Our frequent destinations will include Northern Ireland, Italy, and Spain. I have flown extensivly to Canada, Mexico and the Bahamas and have also done multiple trips to South America but I have no flying experiance in Europe.

I'm hopeing to get some advice and suggestions as to what flying in Europe is like, how to complete tasks like filing flight plans, clearing customs (Should I consider going with a handling company or can I work it myself with minor effort)...etc.. Also is there any additional equipment I need to get on the aircraft beyond the normal life raft and survival suites (Mode S transponder, or HF radio)


Thanks in advance for you responses.

[Denim and leather]

HI,

There is a share holder PC12 company in Luxemburg,I can't tell you the name we are not allowed,could you get any advices?
PM for this company.

[G-SPOTs Lost]

You could use Homebriefing.com to file your flightplans and you could use ifpuv here IFPUV (http://www.cfmu.eurocontrol.int/j_cia_public/cia_public/pages/ifpuv-structured.jsf) to check that you routeings could be acceptable to the european flight planning people before you file them.

Yo could use Jepps to do it all but to be honest you dont need them they're 80 dollars per sector for US based operators.

I would reccomend that you speak to the boss and see what routes he's likely to want to take, preplan them check the routeing in IFPUV and then store them on your homebriefing account as templates and file them online or even by your internet enabled cellphone. This is a good system as it sends you an SMS to acknowledge the filed flight plan and also sends you an SMS if you have any slot delays or restrictions. You could do this before you leave the USA

Theres a lot of taboo fear in US operators about the Europe flight planning system, 50% of the routes can be sorted if not automatically approved by putting "RMK/ ROUTE AMENDMENT BY IFPS ACCEPTED" in box 18, as long as the plan is pointing in the right direction you should geta good route.

0032 27451901 is the number for the slot people at Brussels they can put you through to planning if you have really struck out on getting a route accepted.

Open an account at Homebriefing for $40 and have a go, put in your US cell number and you'll be able to practise. It will confirm the route for you and you can program your FMS with it. Homebriefing will also print for you a 14-15 page route briefing inc wx and notams, sigmets etc etc.

PM me if you need more help or info

[mattman]

Howdy Dom

It was the same for me, but been operating now in Europe for over 2 years now and it's really not that bad. The beeeeg boys here tend to hype it up a bit but they generally have a flight department to fall back on.

G-Spot is quite right, I have been using Homebriefing for a while now, and its fantastic, not free and you pay for the flight plans but there is a brilliant briefing service to it and the flight planning is awesome with good weather info.

The rest is pretty easy, they can baffle you a bit with all the diffrent nations you go through in a flight and the guys are a bit hard to understand at first but my suggestion is get a local guy not anything special but to sit on the right side and help with radios and such for abit. I am sure there are enough wannabees out there that will do some time in a PC12 just for the fun.

If you need more info just PM.

Regards
Matt

[jetopa]

Hi,

flying in Europe is no mystery - it's just the system that works differently and you have to know how, otherwise you risk your ATC flightplans to be rejected, your passengers to be frustrated etc.

Try to contact one of these companies: Air OPS International GmbH (http://www.airopsintl.com) or FSI - Flight Service International GmbH (http://www.fsint.de) and ask them for a quotation for filing your flight plans in Europe (they will also do this for your Atlantic-Crossing, if you wish). They will also provide you with WX, NOTAMs, an actual flight log and w&b calculation. It shouldn't cost a fortune, I'm sure, and they're sort of specialized in helping overseas operators in finding around in the mess of one-way and contingency airways over here.
I could also ask my own company's ops department if they would hlep you for a fee. We operate a PC12 as a company-shuttle, if I'm not mistaken... Just pm me.

As a free and reliable source for WX and NOTAMs it's good to use: www.ippc.no: (http://www.ippc.no:) There you go into 'briefings' and get all you need.

Upon first arrival here it's probably good to work with a local handling company which helps you with customs. Once in Europe, you won't have to clear customs again since most of the countries (= those belonging to the 'Schengen Treaty' - just look at: Schengen Agreement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Agreement) and you will see, that on your route only Great Britain and Ireland do not belong to them) have simplified procedures and do not control passports, custom declarations any more.

For the other airports you probably won't need them - most of them accept major credit cards for payment of landing, parking and so on.

Be prepared to encounter some problems with the English language in both Spain and Italy! This, unfortunately, is valid for both ATC and other people you have to deal with on the ground. But they're very friendly and helpful, most of the time.

Good luck and enjoy your trip!

[N-757PJ]

Be prepared to encounter some problems with the English language in both Spain and Italy!

In Germany too !!!

[AircraftOperations]

I am not sure that the Schengen treaty applies if you are flying a US registered aircraft containing US citizens - even if the flight is between 2 Schengen nations.

I think you'd have to be ready to clear immigration/customs on all routes.

[CargoOne]

You should clear customs and immigration only at the first landing in Schengen zone and on the last departure from Schengen, doesn't matter what acft reg and nationality of passengers/crew.
There is a slight chance you will be asked to show passport/etc but those checks are very random and rare.

[AircraftOperations]

Thanks for the info CargOne.

A PPL friend of a friend (UK passport) was not allowed to arrive at a small German Airport from the UK because they couldn't get immigration officers to be at the airport for the landing. They said that if it had been a "Schengen" flight, then he could have operated there without a problem. Instead he had to fly to a bigger airport with immigration officers present.

Definitely worth checking your airfields in advance.

[DomTatro]

I appreciate the info! Thank you

[LH2]

I think you'd have to be ready to clear immigration/customs on all routes.

Negative. You must use a designated port of entry only every time you arrive to / leave the Schengen area. Having cleared immigration and customs at (generally) your first port of arrival, you can subsequently fly to any other Schengen airport, be it a designated port of entry or not.

This is independent of the aircraft's registration marks or nationality of crew or passengers, although other considerations do apply. For example, if the flights in question were classified as scheduled air transport, then relevant (7th, 8th) Freedom of the Air privileges would be required.

my suggestion is get a local guy not anything special but to sit on the right side and help with radios and such for abit. I am sure there are enough wannabees out there that will do some time in a PC12 just for the fun.

That's actually not a bad idea, and yes I would likely be willing to lend a hand for the fun of it, PM if interested.

[LH2]

AirOps,

A PPL friend of a friend (UK passport) was not allowed to arrive at a small German Airport from the UK because they couldn't get immigration officers to be at the airport for the landing. They said that if it had been a "Schengen" flight, then he could have operated there without a problem. Instead he had to fly to a bigger airport with immigration officers present.

That's why, if flying on short notice, seasoned business operators will always go somewhere with a permanent customs presence first, and then do the hop to their final destination.

There are a lot of tiny aerodromes in Europe which are classed as ports of entry, but they are PPR if customs are required (i.e., flying ex-Schengen), generally it's 24 or 48 hours notice, and most of the time if they are not interested on you they will simply not show up. However, there is a risk that they do want to see but are not able to make it on time (likely if less than 24hr notice), in which case you might be required to proceed to another airfield. Experienced flyers take away the uncertainty by hoping through a permanent customs airport in- or ex-Schengen.

[jager34]

From Iceland to Stavanger(Norway 59 degrees north) is a quite common route.
(a pilot importing cessnas come here "once a week") bring C-206 etc. to Switzerland/Austria etc. He is using about 4 hours (160kts from Iceland)

[CargoOne]

AircraftOperations

A PPL friend of a friend (UK passport) was not allowed to arrive at a small German Airport from the UK because they couldn't get immigration officers to be at the airport for the landing.

That's correct - UK and Ireland are not part of Schengen so to fly from UK to Germany you need to clear customs/immigration.

[dc9-32]

DomTatro - you have a PM :ok:

[con-pilot]

I highly recommend that you 'import' your aircraft into the EU. This will save you a lot of money and problems while operating in Europe. Use a an international handling company for your flight to Europe and then for the first few flights in Europe until you feel comfortable handling all of the details yourself.

As some have suggested already, it would be very helpful to hire a European pilot to assist you at least for the first few weeks.

There is nothing magical or frighting about flying in Europe. It is just different, not better or worse, just different.

Oh, one more thing, probably the most important.

Take an international operations course. This is vital. If your company is not a member of the NBAA, join. The NBAA has a list of excellent companies that provide such training. Some companies will come to your home base and do the training. As from what you have posted you have never operated in a true ICAO environment. Spend the money for this training, it will money well spent.

PM me if you have any other questions.

[roljoe]

Hi,

for a an initial and first trip in europe, I recomend you to use a good handling org..and the one wich pops up in my mind is "Uvair"..well present around Europe..and great services... just google it and you'll get the closest office in the US..

Have fun in Europe..if more info's needed..just drop a pm...

my european experience..is at your disposal..:)

[dc9-32]

LOL - Uvair, you might want to consider re-mortgaging the aircraft to pay the UV invoice you will get :uhoh:

[mattman]

UVAIR riiiiiight still paying for the last trip and the boss is fuming, first and last time with them.:eek:

[Tester07]

How old is the PC-12?

While you are in Europe why dont you take the opportunity to pop-in and see where it was built?

[Opsbeatch]

I think DC9-32 is a little bias really...

Get quotes first then it won't bite you in the rear.

[dc9-32]

Not biased, I just know UV are expensive :ok:

[Opsbeatch]

I've heard Flightworx are a bit leggy too... :8

[Check 6]

DomTatro I PMd you with an offer of assistance. Please check your PMs.

[mr. small fry]

If you are flying who I think you are flying, check your pm's!

[anitschka]

Answer to DomTatro:

Looking for an experienced PC-12 pilot, fully rated FAA and JAR, quite a few 100 hrs on N-registered PC-12 / 47 ? Here I am, having been all over Europe w/ this A/C. Big airports, small airports, fluent in more than english. Know all the probs you might encounter, can help you with "importing" the A/C into European community - etc. etc.

[BelArgUSA]

Talking about "Schengen" - Switzerland just voted (last week) and will be joining Schengen nations. Dont know when the law will be effective, but it is a YES - they will be Schengen in the near future.
xxx
:ok:
Happy contrails

[Check 6]

Good luck on getting a reply. I have PMd DomTatro to offer information and he does not have the courtesy to respond.

:=

[Citation500]

@ BelArgUSA

Not true. Switzerland is already Member of Shengen since 12.Dec.2008. (So no Border Control on Roads, Trains.)
The Swiss Airports will stop to check shengen originating flight from 29.March 2009.

Happy Landings