PDA

View Full Version : Countdown to Tuesday 20th January


airship
15th Jan 2009, 21:00
(When Barack Obama officially takes over the reins of the stagecoach, yeeeeeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrgh....)

I recall him saying in some speech or other recently that 'it' could never have happened 'except in the USA', or words to that effect. Of course, 'it' has, in South Africa... :confused:

The saying goes that an individual from a minority race: has to work twice as hard, produce twice the benefits etc. that his (non-minority) equivalent would have been expected to. I'm not sure how that really translates when we're talking about someone occupying the highest office in the most powerful (economical and military) nation on the planet...? Does that mean more war-war or jaw-jaw...?!

What do you expect to happen after 20th January 2009?

Beatriz Fontana
15th Jan 2009, 21:06
What do you expect to happen after 20th January 2009?

Same old, same old. In the UK in 1997 there were shrieks of change after all those years of Conservatism. And where are we now? Hate to say it, but promising to change is a long way from activating change. I hope he can.

At least the US cousins get the chance to elect a political leader routinely every four years. Ah, now that would be nice.

22 Degree Halo
15th Jan 2009, 21:10
I expect we'll see a new motor:8

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45376000/jpg/_45376603_cadillac_466.jpg

LINK (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7829475.stm)

BlueDiamond
15th Jan 2009, 21:12
... an individual from a minority race ...
How is it that a person with one white parent and one black one is able to have one half of his parentage completely disregarded, and always be referred to as "black?"

He isn't black and he isn't from a minority race ... he is partly so and the same criteria (50%) that people use to justify these descriptions could be just as accurately used to describe him as white. Never hear that though do we?

tony draper
15th Jan 2009, 21:15
Think this is what they mean when they say the triumph of hope over experience.
No matter what the mans ethnicity or background remember first and foremost, he is a politician.:uhoh:

Parapunter
15th Jan 2009, 21:56
Well feckit then! We might as well all give up and **** off home! Have you an ounce of optimism Britain?

TBirdFrank
15th Jan 2009, 22:00
After eighteen years of theiving spivs and ten of blinding incompetence, do you really want an answer???

I was out last night at a meeting where two of the group were formerly from the banking industry

As John said - "I was a banker for a long time - but I'm alright now"

arcniz
15th Jan 2009, 22:47
One has the impression that Obama's skin color is transparent to a large portion of the American public. Probably the "black community" is more aware of his complexion than the "white community". After all, Americans have idolised and adored scores of non-caucasian actors, musicians, and other artists. Business men and women "of color" are increasingly numerous and increasingly powerful in the US; they get respect more in proportion to what they do than where they originated.

A reaction that does seem to be resulting from Obama's election is a new or renewed sense of empowerment for ambitions of non-white teens - at the critical age where they set goals higher or lower in terms of occupation, schooling, and life plans - in the black, hispanic and asian communities of the US. One senses that the example of his success (in being a US Senator and being elected President) has already raised a lot of boats.

Here's hoping he can be fairly successful in managing the very complex circumstances he's taking on. The economic turmoil he's walking into is like a red meat delivery to a pack of wolves when liberal Democrats are in power. His own party will be his greatest challenge and perhaps greatest obstacle to successful management of the Presidency.

airship
15th Jan 2009, 23:12
arcniz's post raises another question.

What if, the existing military-industrial complex that rules the USA behind the scenes actually saw this economic recession / downturn or whatever coming..?! We'll put in a minority black politician as President. It'll be a disaster, economically and politically (if we're lucky). 4 years later, the US electorate will have had a belly-full of minority black Presidents. So that neither Democrat or Republican parties would ever envisage (all things considered) another minority candidate as their presidential nomination...for the next 100 years...?! :uhoh:

sisemen
15th Jan 2009, 23:15
It will all end in tears. Even JFK was loathed enough in some quarters for someone to do him in.

Scumbag O'Riley
15th Jan 2009, 23:20
Let's all hope he turns out to be a rarity. A Great President. We need one.

Wod
15th Jan 2009, 23:29
Actually, the event of 20 January is that QF says farewell to it's last Classic 747, a -300. See D&G

SyllogismCheck
15th Jan 2009, 23:46
Bluey, I'm afraid I disagree with you entirely. From that which I've witnessed having grown up with step-siblings of mixed parentage, a person of mixed race is, most definitely, black and from a minority race to those who perceive ethnicity when they consider a person.

As for the politics question itself, same as ever no doubt. A brief spell of sorting out the mess remaining from the last crowd, followed by a lengthier spell of creating the one to leave for the next. That's how it goes.

con-pilot
16th Jan 2009, 00:45
What if, the existing military-industrial complex that rules the USA behind the scenes actually saw this economic recession / downturn or whatever coming..?! We'll put in a minority black politician as President. It'll be a disaster, economically and politically (if we're lucky). 4 years later, the US electorate will have had a belly-full of minority black Presidents. So that neither Democrat or Republican parties would ever envisage (all things considered) another minority candidate as their presidential nomination...for the next 100 years...?!

You know, you just might be on to something there airship. I mean just look at all of the non-Caucasian leaders/Prime Minsters/Presidents/Kings/etc in history in England and the rest of Europe. Now just how many are and were there?


Oh, that's right, NONE.

Funny that. :p

Two's in
16th Jan 2009, 01:05
the existing military-industrial complex that rules the USA behind the scenes

I always vote for the secret military-industrial complex because they always seem to get back in - it's a great system.

BlueWolf
16th Jan 2009, 01:06
I recall him saying in some speech or other recently that 'it' could never have happened 'except in the USA', or words to that effect. Of course, 'it' has, in South Africa...:confused:

Presuming that you are referring to the election of a leader from an ethnic minority, I would humbly submit that 'it' in fact didn't happen in South Africa, on the grounds that black people constitute a clear and overwhelming majority of the population there.

There are other precedents (har har), I'm sure; memory tells me that a recent former Peruvian President was ethnically Japanese, and there are bound to be others.

This quote from Pickled Politics (http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2479) has an interesting take on the subject;

Following the election of Barack Obama, there has been much talk about the possibility of Britain having a prime minister from an ethnic minority. Sunder Katwala was upbeat about the possibility, Trevor Phillips less so, while Shariq provided an excellent comparison between Britain and the USA’s respective situations.

Yet when one is discussing race, a lot hinges on definitions, which can mean different things to different people. Obama isn’t black, but rather mixed-race, yet he was almost universally described as ‘black’. If John McCain had been elected, would he have been billed as the first US president born in Central America? No. Therefore, what we have is a subjective assessment of what constitutes an ethnic minority.

Using that as a base then, could we in Britain already have had an ethnic minority prime minister? The two best candidates for the title are the 19th century Tories Benjamin Disraeli and Robert Jenkinson (Lord Liverpool). In some ways, Liverpool’s racial identity is similar to that of Obama’s. Despite being mixed-race (he was of Anglo-Indian descent), he was never considered to be a prime minister from an ethnic minority, nor did he look noticeably different from his colleagues in skin tone.

Disraeli too is a difficult case, coming from a Jewish background but being baptized. Again, it hinges on how you view the racial (as opposed to the religious) identity of Jews. Disraeli himself sometimes self-identified as a Jew, such as when he responded to the anti-Semitic barbs of the Irish independence hero Daniel O’Connell:

“Yes, I am a Jew and when the ancestors of the right honourable gentleman were brutal savages in an unknown island, mine were priests in the temple of Solomon.”

If we play with definitions even further, we can have even more ethnic minority leaders. Some senior Roman figures in Britain came from North Africa, most notably the Libyan-born emperor Septimius Severus, who moved the imperial capital to York for the last years of his life in order to battle the barbarians north of Hadrian’s Wall.

So who from the above qualifies as an ethnic minority leader? I don’t know, and I am not sure anyone does. Is skin tone the sole criteria to being an ethnic minority, or is it more complicated than that? Who decides who is what? Can people self-identify? What percentage of your genetic structure has to be from an ethnic minority to be one?

Looking at leading ethnic minority political figures in the UK, with the exception of Sunny, none from the left really stand out. David Lammey is convinced that he is the British Obama, while Keith Vaz is probably convinced that Obama is the American Vaz. As the result of the prevailing Islamaphobia, no Muslim could be prime minister anytime soon. And the Liberal Democrats don’t even seem to have any prominent ethnic minority MPs. I suspect that if a credible ethnic minority candidate emerges, it will be on the right, maybe following in the footsteps of ethnic minority right wingers before them.

Now in this I agree with you;

We'll put in a minority black politician as President.

Given that Obama's mother was white, and his father was seven-eighths Arab, the black bit is most certainly a minority :p

Blacksheep
16th Jan 2009, 10:46
What do you expect to happen after 20th January 2009?In the words of The Who.


..."Here comes the new Boss"


"Same as the old Boss"

<cacaphony of drums and guitars to end>

("Won't Get Fooled Again" is my favourite political commentary song. :ok:)



Domestic problems are his first priority and I reckon Saving The World will have to wait until the back end of a second term.

If Gordon hasn't done it for him in the meantime... :hmm:

parabellum
16th Jan 2009, 11:09
All those hard core Democrats behind him are rubbing their hands together, Obama will be their personal puppet, he will do their bidding, whatever that may be, they put him there and they expect to run the show, Obama was simply a means to their end. You should not forget this.

(simply my opinion arcniz, before you leap off your perch).

ORAC
16th Jan 2009, 12:13
Nothing will change except the faces.........

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/58010/thumbs/s-OBAMA-large.jpg

sitigeltfel
16th Jan 2009, 16:57
I feel a lot of the people who voted for Obama in the expectation of greater things are going to be sorely disappointed. Most of what he will be facing is out of his control.

I remember when Mandela was elected, a film crew went into the shanty towns and asked the people living there what they expected from their new President.
“New houses, running water, sanitation and jobs”, one woman said.
“How long do you think it will take?” asked the interviewer.
“Six months,” she replied.

airfoilmod
16th Jan 2009, 17:13
The bottom line is unity. Policy? Not really. Not in any immediate sense, surely, as siti has shown. Barack has shown a rare ability to coalesce, to passionize people. I cannot count the number of my conservative cohorts who are impressed with this man. As Reagan did, I think Obama can motivate historically opposite camps, in time. I have put my legendary cynicism on the shelf, for now. Do I have a choice? The times they are "a'changed". (apologies to Mr. Zimmerman).

AF

tony draper
16th Jan 2009, 18:11
Awful lot of conservatives were very impressed by our Tone as well.:E

dead_pan
16th Jan 2009, 20:51
One wonders whether Obama has inherited a poison chalice. Sure, he's a smart cookie and has assembled an impressive team around him, but his administration will be at the mercy of events, as his predecessor was.

As for unity, well we'll have to see about that. There's a fairly sizeable community of people who won't take kindly to him being President. Quite what they'll do about it is anyone's guess.

That said, I'm looking forward to the spectacle of the inauguration. Hopefully it won't be marred by any trouble.

V2-OMG!
16th Jan 2009, 21:09
The cities in liberal eastern Canada have been selling Obamamania T-shirts faster than the coffee-houses can sell their "fair trade" non-fat lattes.

Now, since it has just been announced that President Obama's first state visit will be to Canada with the hope of rescinding Prime Minister Harper's mandate to pull the Canadian forces out of Afghanistan in 2011 -- well, golly gee! This may slow down those T-shirt sales a bit.

airfoilmod
16th Jan 2009, 21:22
Didn't say we weren't nervous, Sir.

Avitor
16th Jan 2009, 21:32
There'll be words a plenty. Just like Blair. :cool:

bnt
17th Jan 2009, 11:23
Well, O'Bama's already messed up his inauguration by choosing Rick Warren, a homophobic right-wing preacher who opposes condom use in Africa (http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-01-07/the-truth-about-rick-warren-in-africa/full/), to preside over what should be a non-religious ceremony. This is going to do wonders for gay rights in America, and the fight against HIV in Africa. :mad:

parabellum
17th Jan 2009, 11:37
If what you say is true, bnt, one can only wonder what his advisor's are up to, would that come under incompetence or sabotage?

bnt
17th Jan 2009, 11:48
My hopeful hypothesis is that this is Obama's final token nod to the Religious Right, and that's the most encouragement they're going to get for the next 4 or 8 years. These are the people who called Obama "elitist" because he comes across as someone who reads books, knows stuff, and thinks before he acts. Gee, who'd want such qualities in a President?

frostbite
17th Jan 2009, 11:49
As has been said by others, I think the only thing Obama has going for him is that he is not Bush.

bnt
17th Jan 2009, 11:55
If it was as simple as that, it might as well have been Hillary Clinton. Or Ron Paul, if it's just anti-Bush-ism at work here. IMHO Obama's not the Messiah, but neither is he a very naughty boy. :}

Peter Fanelli
17th Jan 2009, 13:00
What do you expect to happen after 20th January 2009?


The most theatrical farce of a presidency we've ever seen.

GrumpyOldFart
17th Jan 2009, 13:37
Airship:


What if, the existing military-industrial complex that rules the USA behind the scenes actually saw this economic recession / downturn or whatever coming..?!


Saw it coming? Or created it?

barit1
17th Jan 2009, 13:38
I'm hardly a 'Bamabooster, but I do give the guy credit for some of the advisors and cabinet secretaries he's chosen. At least they are not the looney lefties implied by his campaign rhetoric. I had feared the worst, but now I have some hope that things will be no worse than during the Clinton years.

If that sounds like optimism, ........ well not really. :uhoh:

Peter Fanelli
17th Jan 2009, 16:13
Well, Obe Lincoln has just departed Philadelphia on his train ride to DC.

Scrubbed
17th Jan 2009, 16:15
How is it that a person with one white parent and one black one is able to have one half of his parentage completely disregarded, and always be referred to as "black?"

He isn't black and he isn't from a minority race ... he is partly so and the same criteria (50%) that people use to justify these descriptions could be just as accurately used to describe him as white. Never hear that though do we?

As Baz Luhrmann says, "He's a creamy!"

I hope Obama only serves a single term because I can't stand listening to American media referring to Ba-rack as "Buh-ROCK"...... :rolleyes:

Peter Fanelli
17th Jan 2009, 16:47
He's not even half black, he's 1/16 black.

Scrubbed
17th Jan 2009, 16:54
This is going to do wonders for ...........the fight against HIV in Africa.

As far as the those who pull the strings of the gov't are concerned, there is no fight against hiv. They're happy keeping an entire, potentially wealthy continent down.

gay rights

:rolleyes: