Robinson vs Turbine

[The Night Owl]

Considering a new acquisition, either new R44 or squirrel (single), currently inclined to go for the R44 as by all accounts they serve their purpose much more than a squirrel that will spend most of it's life in maintenance mounting up bills.

Not yet rated on turbine and would have to have 2nd hand A/C if I went for this option whilst the R44 would only require a conversion from R22..

Any advices out there as to the best choice?

Insurance must be :mad: on the squirrel?

[R44-pilot]

http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/353936-turbine-reliability-vs-r44-piston.html

and

R44 v Bell & MD (http://helicopterflight.net/r44_v_bell_&_md.htm)

[John R81]

Or go EC120. Cost more to purchase but less to run.

[ReverseFlight]

I have written in these forums regarding R44 vs turbines:

http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/347635-r44-raven-ii-vs-older-206-a.html

If money is no object, go for a turbine. If you need to perform specialised work e.g. sling, line inspection, mountain work, go for a turbine.

If it's just to transport people from A to B plus a few scenic trips in between, R44 may fit your bill without breaking your bank.

Lastly, your decision rests on how much you like flying each of those machines. Try it yourself and see.

ps. I love flying the Squirrel but if an R44 is all I can afford, I would buy that instead.

[nigelh]

I cant make my mind up ...i am thinking of having a crack at sh***ing Kate Moss but i may have a go at Nora Batty instead .....what do you think ??
How can you begin to compare a robbo with a squirrel ???:confused: one costs £200k , 2 blades and runs on petrol ......the other costs nearly £2m , has 3 blades and is a helicopter . It wont be in the hangar all the time as they are incredibly reliable ....but parts are expensive . You should compare with a nice 1990 jet banger for the same price or enstrom 480 .
Would you compare a fiat panda with an Aston :ugh:

[fluffy5]

I cant make my mind up ...i am thinking of having a crack at sh***ing Kate Moss but i may have a go at Nora Batty instead .....what do you think ??

That's the best laugh I have had all day, completely right. :}

Ask yourself one thing, are you buying purely for you, and keep it in the back garden. Or where you do your conversion they may ask if they can put it on their AOC. Now kate moss far better looking, younger, sleeker, purrs while giving you that extra torque when required. Or good old Nora not so good looking, does'nt even look like a female and sounds like she's mowing the lawn.
If you need the abit of cash, what is going to bring in the extra cash, kate will in the corporate market and Nora for the trial lessons and ice cream lickers.

fluffy

[Scissorlink]

I'd flag the squirrel and go for the R44. You can put the blades fore and aft and hanger it in a nice tight space. That extra blade, 6 seats and 600 plus horsepower is really over rated,

[FLY 7]

R44s seem to provoke mixed reactions. Some like them, some loathe them. But they are cheap and the only 4-seat piston, so they do have a captive market.

If you wanted an R44, surely pre-owned is better value. There seem to be plenty around at a big saving off new, and the running costs should be fairly predictable.

Of course the turbines will be in another league - in terms of cost and quality. A decent squirrel must be US$600,000+?

Would a Bell 206 B3 not be a better buy? Or, how about a Gazelle? although, yes, insurance would be a lot more.

[The Night Owl]

Kate can have a ride on my chopper any day, but back to helicopters...

Thanks for the replies, i'll probably go for 'Nora', running costs seem to be more predictable and affordable and at least she isn't going to be 'on the blob' 10 months of the year being taken to pieces by the maintenance guys.

Brand new squirrel would be a different issue but i'd have to go for a cheaper (used) version with less hours etc.. 206's and Enstroms are always an option.

I'll have a look at shavenhavens.com and grizzlyoldgrowlers.com before making final decision!

[ShyTorque]

I'd go for the turbine as long as someone else was paying. And Kate Moss.

"Nora Batty" died recently, btw.

If Nora Batty's engine failed, would it be "The Last of the Summer Whine"?

[dragman]

Robinson have a fantastic 10 year maintenance program which. This allows for the thrifty owner operator to plan for the rebuild........

http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/356963-robinson-r44-confined-area-landing.html

[nigelh]

I'd flag the squirrel and go for the R44. You can put the blades fore and aft and hanger it in a nice tight space. That extra blade, 6 seats and 600 plus horsepower is really over rated,.................................

If you are currently employed in the industry no wonder its in the sh*t:rolleyes: What a truly remarkably daft comment :ugh:

I also think the extra blades on a S76 and the extra x000 HP are over rated too :D As for the extra blades and extra horsepower on an Apache are over rated ...if the mil used r44,s just think how many they could get inthe hangar with their little blades fore and aft :ok:
There really are some muppets on this site :{

Sorry just realised you MUST have been exercising the subtle art of sarcasm ......but you may have a point ...you can put nora in the back of an old van ..and a nice pair of t*ts and long legs are truly overated compared to nora,s hot water bottles and thick wrinkly tights :ok:

[spinwing]

Mmmm .....

I'm tempted to say this thread is all about ....

........ "Too much money and not enough sense!"


:rolleyes:

[DynamicallyUnstable]

Not to mention you can put 7 seats (inc pilot) in the AS350.
I have flown both and think that if you can't afford the squirrel, the 44 is not a bad machine for the money. DOC of the 44 is about 1/2 of an AS350 but then again, you can fit double the passengers (+1 if you have the dual front pax seat) so if you have enough business, there is a balance.

You also didn't bother mentioning what you want this for. That is a MAJOR factor in getting the answer that does you the most good. If you're firefighting, show up with a 44 and listen to the laughter, get it? My response was based on moving people (ie. tours, transportation, etc)

Good luck in your decision

[Scissorlink]

Glad you picked up on that NigelH

oh yeah didnt count the drivers seat...if one pax is a hottie you can take 8 as she can sit on the pilots lap :ok:

[EN48]

Take a look at the Enstrom 480B. A brand new one loaded with options is about twice the price of an R44. This is a more realistic candidate when examining the tradeoffs of piston vs turbine. In some ways it resembles a mini Squirrel, with similar external shape and interior cabin layout. Its easy to fly, has a superb safety record, has relatively few life limited components, and doesnt have the airframe life limits of a Robinson. Insurance costs are mostly driven by insured hull value. In the U.S. currently, the hull premium is typically in the 4% to 6% of insured value range, depending on experience and make/model. Enstrom run an insurance program in the U.S. at the low end of this range. Liability premiums are a small fraction of the hull premium.

[nigelh]

If you are paying 5% then you are being either 1) Raped or 2) you are a short sighted drunk or 3) you fly a robinson . In a proper heli ( such as mine :cool:) i pay around 2% all in.

[BoeingMEL]

... do your sums and decide which turbine type you'd go for IF you chose that route. Then do a TR course and see how you like it.

(I remember my first turbine course (B206 III) and never wanted to fly a recip again. Then did a Squirrel course and didn't want to fly a 206 again!)

Good luck anyway, it must be nice having the choice!bm

PS Nora Batty died recently, and you guys still contemplating some jiggyjiggy with her? Jeez! :=

[EN48]

If you are paying 5% then you are being either 1) Raped or 2) you are a short sighted drunk or 3) you fly a robinson


Definitely not no. 2 or no. 3. Maybe no. 1. But probably most likely due to low helicopter time. Despite 40+ years of flying planks (including CPL/IR/ME and turbines) and with no accidents, incidents, violations or insurance claims ever, the hull premium on my new E480B was about 4.5% of insured value. At the time this coverge was purchased, I had a PPL-Helicopter and about 100 hrs total helicopter time. I shopped round extensively and this was by far the best offered. When renewal time comes around I will have CPL/IR-Helicopter and north of 250 hrs of tubine helo time, so expecting a significant reduction in premiums.

[biggles99]

Nigelh

I think that 2% of your £2 million AS350 is quite a lot more than 5% of the other chaps 200k R44.

Did you buy the AS350, or do you sit in the front and get paid to do your dream job?

If you are the one who is both paying and sitting in the front, very different factors come into play.

Big Ls

[Gas Producer]

Hey Scissor,

You're clearly and even-keeled gent. Many a subscriber would have launched their own salvo in return. Good for you.

It's horses for courses, I think . . . buy the thing that suits your circumstances best.

I have to say, though, that dual bench front seat in a 350 or 355 is wonderful . . . but caution any errant passenger loader who doesn't put the 'hottie' next to me!!!

GP:}

[Hughesy]

Bit late on this one.

I fully agree with Gas Producer......hotties ALWAYS next to the pilot. It's a CofG thing.

[MartinCh]

oh yeah didnt count the drivers seat...if one pax is a hottie you can take 8 as she can sit on the pilots lapI guess you meant something like this. I just love this pic.

I fully agree with Gas Producer......hotties ALWAYS next to the pilot. It's a CofG thing.Well, regarding lateral CG, this would solve the problem (there are more nice pics but more of a glamour variety, off topic)

http://www.airplane-pictures.net/images/uploaded-images/2008-2/24/11005.jpg

[Hughesy]

Thats the bugger!! :ok:

[chopperpilot47]

I've flown both and I would much prefer flying a $5M dollar turbine than an R44. The R44 is to me adversely affected by any sort of wind or turbulence. It can be very uncomfortable on occasions. Having said that I think the R44 is very good for the money and is very cheap to run. Horses for courses really.
Chopperpilot 47