Cityjet Loosing Money

[seasexsun]

CityJet loses €16.2m despite 12.4% rise in turnover - The Irish Times - Wed, Jan 07, 2009 (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2009/0107/1230936732373.html)

[WHBM]

Firstly please note that these are the financial figures for the year to 31 March 2008. It really is poor that they have taken nearly 10 months to get their figures out for a financially-uncomplicated organisation. That means they reflect a period wholly before any of the economic downturn that has occurred in more recent times, and which has hit their base at London City harder than most.

It also covers the period of the replacement of the old (and cheap) 146 fleet with the somewhat-newer Avro RJ fleet, which will have many one-off additional costs, along with merging in the old Scot Airways operations and other structural changes to the business. It doesn't form much of a basis for ongoing comparison. I'd like to have a look at ther balance sheets and cash position before making much of it.

[von baron]

no point in defending them...AirFrance will keep them while there useful...they'll soon no longer be useful. The guys who fund CityJets balance sheet are business class pax travelling to LCY and they are dropping fast...no pax no money and VLM might be a stronger operator for AF....they are already letting staff go...30 or so this week alone

[The Real Slim Shady]

And never forget that AF are masters at putting franchise companies out of business.

[von baron]

i'd say the guys who managed the "buying" of VLM for AF, oh I mean CityJet, will be sick when VLM become the dominent airline.... its a shame...they hire a load of managers when in reality the decisions start and end in paris

[seasexsun]

I have friends in cityjet they are not happy at all. salary and managment is ****.

[No_Speed_Restriction]

Disagree, money is very good. Like any other airline, if you keep your head down and do your job correctly, then you'll avoid the management radar.

[ICEHOUSES]

Are Cityjet pilots still being paid Euros in LCY, if so how does that work with the tax people.

[brownstone]

I agree with NoSpeed,
like every airline, do your job as best as you can, keep below the parapit, and enjoy flying from HMS London City.
Yes, we get paid in Euros at the mo but we are all grown men/women who can sort out our own tax affairs.
Don't listen to the "my mate says.." comments. everyone is entitled to an opinion, but usually its just bar/beer talk.

Stop the whingeing, and enjoy the job. Its the best in the world!!!!

[FlyingTinCans]

Stop the whingeing, and enjoy the job. Its the best in the world!!!!

That message is far to up beat for PPrune!! :ok:

[seasexsun]

in this topic we have find at leest 2 ass suckers: no speed and brownstone.

i am sorry my friends but cityjet do pay ****: around 2000 euros per month only for a FO!!!!
Of course if you don't take hollyday and you willin to spend 20 nights a month in a hotel at charles de gaule or birmingaham or edingburd, you will increase you **** salary but decrease you poor lifestyle.
:oh:

[RB311]

Advice to sunseasex's friends at cityjet...

If not happy, resign, and work somewhere else.

End of message.

[Mister Geezer]

birmingaham or edingburd

I know they serve Birmingham and Edinburgh but it is great to see further expansion in times like this. I hope that they start flying to Dudlin and Zurick soon! :}

seasexsun... you obviously have some grudge against CityJet but just get over it. Anyway in times like this I thought you had to be grateful to have a job - perhaps a reality check is needed? I can assure you there are hundreds of airlines that are losing money like CityJet, so they are not on their own! Before you bite back - I don't work for CityJet! ;)

[No_Speed_Restriction]

seasexsun, youre obviously an SO then with that salary. Fresh from school and already moaning. We've all done our time on our first job and worked our way up. Perhaps next time we fly together you can tell me what went wrong in your choice of job?!?

[brownstone]

Yep FlyingTinCans,

it's a radical thing to say but I'm loving my job. Surely it won't catch on...

SSS, get the facts straight.

First year Second Officer salary at Cityjet: E24,833

Average monthly allowances:approx E1200

Gross yearly income=39233E which is £36000 at the mo!!

For a first job, year 1, in a jet?? You don't know you are born!!

-----------------------
Stop your whinging and enjoy your job..

[Mister Geezer]

But he does not even work for you guys!!!

[mover shaker]

SSS, why do people like you come on here and moan and complain about companies they do not even work for?!
Cityjet is a great company, investing in their aircraft, route and staff. Their main losses in the previous year, if you read the article, or know anything about Cityjet, are due to their expanding their LCY base and buying a brand new fleet of aircraft!
The salary is comparable to any other airline and paying the LCY staff in euros has its benefits since they pay irish tax (and not on their sector pay) which makes it substantially less than what they would pay in UK tax
I used to use this site to gain information on airlines but people seem to just come on now and write bad stuff when they don't even know what they are talking about.
As for your comments on overnights, this is something you will find you have to deal with as a pilot and to be honest, its a good experience to work out of different airports
You give the impression you think you are too good for a company like Cityjet? I would like to know what exactly you are hoping for - your own private gold plated jet which you only have to fly once a month, if you feel like it?
My advice would be grow up and stop writing bad comments on airlines you don't work for based on your 'friends' opinions!

[seasexsun]

Because the Avro is a jet airplane? :}:}:}:}

**** pay, **** roster, **** salary, **** atmosphere with cabin crew, **** airplane (or moped), **** base, **** captains, sit rostering, **** financial situation...
Some captains are sent back to as first officer .

Guys cityjet is not good anymor for Airfrance!

I don't work for them, and have never applied (I am on B737 in my sunny country)... but I do have 2 friends there and they reely hate it.

[brownstone]

Yeah I know he doesn't but spreading dis-information around
needs to be addressed. Hopefully he's happy in the airline he flies for!!

Or is it a supermarket??

[von baron]

They only spent 5 million on the advertising/development on LCY. and be honest, AF paid for the Aircraft , 220 Million - Cityjet have never had that in the bank ever....Their main passengers are bankers and business people in the biggest recession in what 20 years.... GWhite said in an interview that their passengers would just buy ecomony instead of business...but their passengers don't choose who they fly with...if the finances get worse the Travel departments of their pax will tighten their belts.

Their losses announced so far where in the March 08 results...wait til the March 09 results come out..The redundancies in Jan were just the start. They have already gone to 2 cabin crew instead of 3...routes will be next...

[rubymurray]

Mover shaker :D:D

I'm joining Cityjet in a few weeks and everyone I've spoken to so far who works for them is more than happy and I can't wait to get started!

[chips101]

**** pay, **** roster, **** salary, **** atmosphere with cabin crew, **** airplane (or moped), **** base, **** captains, sit rostering, **** financial situation...

SSS I'm only SLF but what captain would want you in a demanding situation?

[brownstone]

Hey Chips101, good one, hit the nail on the head, but he does make me laugh tho':)
this guy really should be in a home somewhere.

Rubymurray, welcome aboard!! I think you'll love Cityjet as much as me, the groundschool/training is as hard and demanding as anywhere else, you've got to put the bookwork in, but once signed off the flying is great. You'll love flying the
RJ.
:ok:

[Mister Geezer]

sexseasun... are you seriously saying that Swiftair is a better company than Cityjet? :} Now remind me - which major airline owns Swiftair again.....???

I am on B737 in my sunny country

Yes an old 737-300 freighter fleet that is nearly 20 years old and double the age of CityJet's RJ85 machines - need I say any more? :ok:

I don't mind someone taking the pi55 out of an airline but for someone from a mickey mouse ACMI airline to slate Cityjet is just laughable really! Chip on the shoulder or what? :E

[DinoCraft9]

Hi everyone!

don't even waste your time with this character, he's got a serious problem with wx, he's just started this thread to create controversy. I don't know...he says he's never applied to...hmmm :hmm: well then his girlfriend cheated him with a wx pilot?:} the thing is that as somebody said the guy is so proud of working for a 3rd class cargo co, having paid more than one tr (if it's true that he's in the 37) and flying in who knows what conditions (parrot on the shoulder) that he feels sorry for us, poor wx employees! why don't you tell us about your salary or your roster? then perhaps we'd understand why you consider wx such a sh**. otherwise do us a favour: get lost!:=

thanks mate!

PS: now you can carry on with your limited collection of nice words!:ok:

[fingal flyer]

Rubymurray,
Read what u want but you must make up your own mind.I was with Cityjet and left for all the right reasons for me.
I know all jobs are different and not all will suit every individual but one that someone else hates maybe your dream job.
I wont promote or deride Cityjet here but if you are looking for a first job,look for yourself dont just accept what you read here.
To balance what I said above I wont be looking to go back but having said that I know people who are very happy there.

[Buster-go-nad]

Slightly off thread... but to the guys that are sticking the blade into contract cargo ops...

I've worked for RYR and EZY...I now work for one of the above... It's not everybody's cup of tea I'm sure but I'm far happier being paid 89000 Euros a year, flying 8 - 9 days a month (fixed roster) and doing 25 - 30 hours flying a month. Horses for courses as they say...Oh and most of our FO's want to leave because there is no realistic hope of a LHS but they can't AFFORD to...

BTY, Cityjet is a nice company, with nice people.... so the whinger should bugger off and let someone who would be a bit more grateful ( and a touch more positive to be around) have his seat..:=

[supramkiv]

First Officers take home 2000 Euro's a month?? Pah I'm a second officer and took double that this month on a 6-3 roster, and never less then around 3300 Euro's. Sure WX isn't perfect but i'm one of many happy LCY based pilots. A loss over the last financial year isn't surprising with a new fleet, a new base, and the acquisition of Scot Airways and VLM. As for 2/2 crew, it maybe to save money but we're just falling into line with our Swiss/BA Cityflyer competitor's who have been doing the same for some time... I'm sure the majority of European operator's are tightening the belt to survive the rough times, WX are hardly unique in this respect.

Some people will always find something to complain about no matter who they work for, but the rest of us just ignore the miserable sods and get on with enjoying the job. :ok:

[seasexsun]

that is 2000 euros basic, 3300 when you fly like a slave in the avro doing nightsoppings all the time in airport hotels with no food included (that is why you have those allowants). so this is actually a 3300 euros to which you have to spend lot of money for eating in your hotel.
Once again this information come from friends there, and they call this company "****YJET" :ok::ok::}


Mister greeze I saw an AVRO 10 000ft bellow my aircraft last day during cruise, and of course we overtook it very quickely maybe it was one of "****YJET" :eek:

Good luck my friends as soon as the crisis stops you will be able to get of of that ****y airline/airliner..

[RB311]

to seasun and probably no sex,

city may be spelt city, but ****y is actually spelt ****ty.

Neither spelling of the word applies to cityjet.

Fact is, either you are a total prat or your trying (very trying) to be funny..

i will let others decide.

[supramkiv]

I've already made my own mind up about this fella, and he is about funny as he is literate. 3300 is a bad month, I am on minimum overnights also. Seasexsun if you want to fly chinese rubber dog**** across Europe in an ancient Boeing be my guest. I really didn't want to bite as you're a fairly pathetic guy and deserve sympathy and help, not abuse, but I will bite, get off Cityjet's case and get a life, i'm not surprised your girlfriend cheated on you with one of our pilot's, i'm sure they are a better person then you'll ever be.

[Mister Geezer]

Mister greeze I saw an AVRO 10 000ft bellow my aircraft last day during cruise, and of course we overtook it very quickely maybe it was one of "****YJET"

I am impressed that you can tell the difference between an Avro RJ and a BAe 146 from 10,000ft! :}

[5 RINGS]

quote

"A loss over the last financial year isn't surprising with a new fleet, a new base, and the acquisition of Scot Airways and VLM"

unquote.

Scot Airways...surely not...SA is contracted by WX, not owned by WX.

[von baron]

Correct , CityJet for AirFrance by VLM operated by ScotAir. The Commerical Department in CityJet are fooling themselves sometimes thinking that they manage an airline, decisions are made for them.

[seasexsun]

****tyjet is just a feeder for air france, they has the worse salary and conditions, and future is VLM.

[No_Speed_Restriction]

seasexsun, you're right and we're all wrong. How about ending this thread now as its getting a tad silly and pointless. :ugh:

[remoak]

Publically criticising an airline you don't work for and have no first-hand knowledge of... the mark of a true moron.

Probably a spotty know-nothing F/O who got turned down by Cityjet sometime in the past.

[Mister Geezer]

sexseasun

How do I apply to ****air (sorry Swiftair). I would love to fly freight around in a really old 737 300.... NOT! :}

[Teddy Robinson]

sss .... whatever your gripe with the company ... you have a huge attitude problem, demonstrated here and with previous postings.

Life is really too short .. you should get out more :)

[747 Downind]

We see a lot of airline bashing throughout this forum, predominantly through personal vendettas and bitterness. What still flabbergasts me is to the extent that these so called aviators will criticise aircraft themselves. For the tools that have an issue with BAe146/Avro RJ, could you really design, manufacture and certify an aircraft to such a standard :suspect:. The 146/RJ was built for a specific purpose, which it does extremely well. It is relatively efficient, complies with noise regulations, and for aircraft that stopped production in 2001, there is still no competitor of its size that operates into short airfields and with steep approach paths.

This is the company that brought the world Concorde, the Sea Harrier, and have been involved in the Typhoon and F35.. they are at the cutting edge of aeronautical innovation.. you are a bunch of idiotic simpletons! :E

[remoak]

they are at the cutting edge of aeronautical innovation

They haven't been at the cutting edge of aviation since Concorde and the TSR2. There is no longer enough expertise left to build a complete aircraft in the UK, even if somebody came up with a viable design. Having been a six-monthly visitor to the sim centre at Woodford for quite a few years, it has gone from slightly busy (when the RJX was being built and the Nimrod program was in full swing), to an absolute ghost town.

The 146/RJ/RJX were/are great aircraft for their intended purpose, don't get me wrong. But even when the RJX was flying, it was just an RJ with new engines... still the same basic EFIS, several orders of magnitude less capable than most turbopops of the era.

Personally, I think the UK government should be held accountable for throwing away what was a strong and innovative industry. How the empire has fallen!

But I think we can all agree that this seasexsun clown is a complete dick!

[Iver]

Is CityJet still hiring? Which bases are available?

[Lafyar Cokov]

Not at the moment - there's a bit of a training backlog although the recruiters said they would look at it again in the next 6 months.

[747 Downind]

Remoak:

Yes I couldnt agree more, sadly BAe is a shadow of its former self, and this is primarily down to one factor.. investment. I can only think that the super might of companies like Lockheed Martin have come to BAe for expertise on issues regarding the F35, as they know we have some of the best aeronautical engineers and innovators worldwide.
My point being If I am to believe that the B737 NG is a better aeroplane than the A320 (which I do):E, it still doesnt detract the fact that the A320 is an amazing piece of engineering, and this is how I regard the 146/RJ. Sad government funding has created this lull in aeronautical engineering, but just look on the roads and see the dominance of the big German car (Merc spend 1mill estimated on development a day.. so I heard ????), think what Jag, Aston Martin and Rolls could have down with that!!!!!!!:D

[RB311]

When inserted into the context of aviation, I find the concept of over-engineering a tad more comforting than what the alternative implies....

Anything less, smacks of risk management, and look where that got BAA last week.

As to reliability, anything, or anyone for that matter, that gets on a bit in years is likely to have a few more reliability issues... sympathy and tlc are the order of the day!

regards from a member of the unofficial rj fan club.

[Teddy Robinson]

People have flown this machine to inappropriate landing areas ie mountainsides, treetops etc, but the aircraft itself has yet to kill or seriously injure anyone to the best of my knowledge ... not a bad record .:ok:

[banana head]

There is a serious gap in your knowledge so Teddy :ugh:

Never let facts cloud your judgement.........

The BAe-146/Avro RJ has been involved in seven hull-loss accidents with a total of 259 fatalities (courtesy of Aviation Safety network).

* On 7 December 1987 a Pacific Southwest Airlines Flight 1771 BAe 146-200 (registration: N350PS) crashed after a disgruntled former USAir employee aimed a .44 Magnum pistol and fired several shots in or near the cockpit area, causing the aircraft to enter a steep nosedive. All of the 43 passengers and crew members on board were killed. At the time airline employees were allowed to bypass security checkpoints.

* On 20 February 1991 a LAN Chile BAe 146-200A (registration: CC-CET) overran runway 8 while landing at Puerto Williams Airport (WPU), Chile, killing 20 of the 73 people on board.

* On 23 July 1993 a China Northwest Airlines BAe 146-300 (registration: B-2716) crashed while attempting to take off from Yinchuan Airport (INC), People's Republic of China. 55 of the 113 passengers and crew were killed.

* On 25 September 1998 a Paukn Air BAe 146-100 (registration: EC-GEO) crashed while on an approach to runway 15 at Melilla Airport (MLN/GEML), Spain. All of the 38 passengers and crew were killed.

* On 24 November 2001 Crossair Flight 3597 Avro RJ-100 (registration: HB-IXM) crashed while on a VOR/DME approach to runway 28 at Zürich-Kloten Airport (ZRH/LSZH), Switzerland. 24 of the 33 passengers and crew were killed.

* On 8 January 2003 Turkish Airlines Flight 634, an Avro RJ-100 (registration: TC-THG) crashed while on a VOR/DME approach to runway 34 at Diyarbakir Airport (DIY/LTCC), Turkey. 75 of the 80 passengers and crew were killed.

* On 10 October 2006 a Atlantic Airways Flight 670 BAe 146-200A (registration OY-CRG) skidded off the runway while landing at Stord Airport, Norway. The spoilers did not deploy when the aircraft landed. 3 passengers and 1 crew member were killed, of the 16 persons on board


After 7 years flying the BAe146/ Avro RJ I will confess to being a big fan of the type - but it is not perfect, it does have many flaws and 'gotchas' and will bite those who are complacent or who don't fully understand the interaction between systems (for example loss of green hyd when stby gen operates). It was most certainly over engineered, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. It's just a pity the RJX never saw production.......

[acebaxter]

There is a big difference between an aircraft type killing someone vs the crew operating the aircraft killing someone.

[JW411]

banana head:

The man was trying to say that lots of people driving BAe146/RJs have broken them as a result of their actions but that the aeroplane itself has never killed anyone.

At least, that's the way I read it.

[ross o carrol kelly]

i used to work for wx on the ground way back in the day when they only had two a/c cms and cmy.did 5 or 6 yrs there,cant remember.

it was the mutts nutz to work with the likes on PB and co running the show.

however the current crop of guys (management or mis-management) are indeed delluding themselves if they think that they are running that airline. GOB ****e,the CEO and the fella with the elbow problem Tango Romeo,wake up from that wet dream you are having and you will soon realise it is very dry indeed.

the best thing that ever happened to me was NOT getting the job in the RHS of an obsilite aircraft with tittyjet(a reference to the quality of hostie that wx USED to have),so Tango Romeo i thank you from the bottom of heart,for without you i would not have gone on to do what i have done :ok:

[Teddy Robinson]

Thank you JW.

[brownstone]

Ah...the RJ.... brilliant aircraft.

4 engines, Cat III autoland, easy to land, EFIS, an airbrake that works, what more do you need laddie??

(if you don't know the green hydraulics are lost when the stby gen runs you shouldn't be type rated on it...)

Yes, its needs TLC but it rewards in heaps.

[Flare-Idle]

...the one and only jet aircraft prone to bird strikes from behind...

[Capt Ted Crilly]

Bring
Another
Engine

1 aircraft with
4 engines but it needs
6

the engine anti-ice was famously known as the anti climb device :}

[JW411]

Capt Crilly:

In a word bullsh*t; the engine anti ice system has little effect on the climb performance.

However, the airframe anti/deice system has a dramatic effect on the climb performance.

In almost 20 years, I only had to shut one engine down. I thought that was a pretty good result.

[Lafyar Cokov]

JW

That may be the case - but I've just done a type rating on the thing and we had an engine failure every flight - in some cases two or three. It's making me very scared about flying the actual aircraft!

:uhoh:

[Capt Ted Crilly]

ah jw,

tooth sweet mon brov,

you are spot on it was the airframe icing system that "cancelled" the climb that was/is known as the "anti climb device" how silly off me :ugh:

anyway my girlfriend has being using the same HAIRDRYER for 20 yrs also and she hasn't had any problems with it either :}

all my time is on boeings and airbuses and i haven't shut one down which i think is a better result.

layfar,

not only will it happen during the type rating it happens every six months also by some strange coincidence,cant work it out :E

[757flyer]

Ah The cockroach ! (BAE 146).

Fly s slow, fly s low, engine roll back, engine failure, gets in everyone's way and poisons you with organo phosphates! wonderful machine.

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[haughtney1]

Fly s slow, fly s low, engine roll back, engine failure, gets in everyone's way

Bloody things.....

Even the Nigels are breaking them at LCY and shutting the airport :ugh:

[Teddy Robinson]

In mitigation .. the roll back issue was dealt with several years ago ... the rest may be more or less accurate : a friend in atc once told me the last thing they wanted to see on a busy day was a heavily loaded A340 or a 146 .. BUT it is very very good at descending .. a reason that let us watch an A320 on the same routing sail gracefully overhead in the cruise but be deplaning the first busload as he taxied to stand .. not perfect, but well engineered and overall ..safe.. just a shame about those engines :rolleyes:

[JW411]

The nicest design feature is that it runs out of fuel after about 3½ hours.

After years and years of long haul that made life so much nicer!

[Teddy Robinson]

Funny I never looked at it that way JW .... an excellent feature indeed ! :)

[greenergrassairlines]

Many an Airline losing money I would think

[Capt Ted Crilly]

ryr will loose money in the 3rd quarter due to mis-management on fuel hedging,but are still profitable for the full fiscal year!!! somewhere in the region of 85-100m euro,not bad considering the financial landscape!!!

ba on the other hand have had a 1billion swing in fortunes +850m to -150m ouch!!!!

[remoak]

Fly s slow, fly s low, engine roll back, engine failure, gets in everyone's way and poisons you with organo phosphates! wonderful machine.

Well we used to fly it at .72, which coincidentally was the same as all the Easy 737s at the time, as they were all busy trying to be economical.

We also used to fly it at FL300/310 (depending on variant), which is hardly "low".

Gets in everyone's way? I lost count of the number of times I got held up by some Nigel, slowing down to 140 kts 20 miles out, while we could easily maintain 250kts to 8 miles.

And organophosphates? That's pretty rich coming from someone who has "757" in their user name, as that particular Boeing has poisoned far more people than the 146 ever has.

Engine failure? Pretty rare these days. Our fleet of 17 only had one in five years, and I drew the short straw on that one... turned out to be a duff overspeed controller, aircraft was back in service an hour after landing.

Rollback? Ancinet history. All engines were modded years ago.

In fact, as others have said, not one has been lost to any failure of the aircraft... all the losses have been crew errors (or deliberate acts). Now how many Boeing/Airbii have speared in over the years after a major airframe or engine malfunction?

But let's not let the truth get in the way of a good story... :ugh::ugh::ugh:

[757flyer]

hit a nerve have we remoak?

as to; quote And organophosphates? That's pretty rich coming from someone who has "757" in their user name, as that particular Boeing has poisoned far more people than the 146 ever has.

Utter rubbish, the early version of the 757 had a problem (the ones fitted with the RB211-535-C engine were very prone). I personally know of two ex collegues who have recently DIED from suspected complications re organophosphate poisoning, both flew the 146. Plus there are many ex 146 pilots that i know who have lost their medical through organophosphate poisoning. The 146 always had an old socks smell (organophosphates) i have never noticed this on the 757.

Quote "We also used to fly it at FL300/310 (depending on variant), which is hardly "low".

Hardly a startling max cruise is it! and bet you really struggled to get there, (prob not achieving the min 500ft per min atc requirement in class A airspace), ask any ATC and they will tell you the 146 was a pain in the ass.

quote "Well we used to fly it at .72, which coincidentally was the same as all the Easy 737s at the time, as they were all busy trying to be economical."

Wow .72 , if i remember rightly .73 was max speed on the 146-300, our regular cruise speed was .68, very very slow!! I refer you to the ATC quote earlier.

4 engines that preduce LESS than 7000lb of thrust each. (when they worked). designed for tanks!!

As for 250kts to 8 miles..........very good !! well done!! and probably broke every ATC speed limit required (particularly in germany), isnt the 146 a cat B aircraft (same as most turboprops!), in fact some employers consider 146 time as turboprop time, never was a proper jet.

quote : In fact, as others have said, not one has been lost to any failure of the aircraft... all the losses have been crew errors (or deliberate acts). Now how many Boeing/Airbii have speared in over the years after a major airframe or engine malfunction?

No B757 has ever been lost to airframe or engine malfunction, as with the 146 only losses have been to human error or terrorist activity, but then again there are THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS of airbus and boeing pruducts flying compared to a few hundred 146s, hardly a good comparison.

A most dreadful unreliable aircraft that was ever my misfortune to fly.

[No_Speed_Restriction]

having flown both types I have to agree with the above post. The B757/767 is built like a brick $hithouse (especially when it comes to reliability) unlike the BAE146/RJ.

[remoak]

I personally know of two ex collegues who have recently DIED from suspected complications re organophosphate poisoning, both flew the 146.

Emotively put, but the jury is still out on that one.

Hardly a startling max cruise is it!

It isn't a contest. We flew at the most appropriate level for the route, and the other London-bound traffic - 757's included - was only 3-5 thousand feet above us. Big deal.

ask any ATC and they will tell you the 146 was a pain in the ass.

I did, which is how I found out the BA shuttle was much more of a problem for ATC than we were (in Scotland).

our regular cruise speed was .68

So you flew at LRC. Not everyone was as tardy as you were!

and probably broke every ATC speed limit required

Are you even a pilot? Obviously we all obey ATC speed restrictions.but not all our destinations had them. Most encouraged us to maintain high speed, pretty common in the UK, and it often saved us (and ATC) a lot of time. There is a lot to be said for versatility.

isnt the 146 a cat B aircraft

What does that have to do with anything? It can still fly a greater range of speeds on approach than any Boeing, and to much closer in. Makes no difference what it's approach category is. Perhaps you need to revise how approach categories are defined.

No B757 has ever been lost to airframe or engine malfunction

Not quite:

2 October 1996; Aero Peru Boeing 757-200; near Ancon, Peru:The aircraft was on a flight from Lima, Peru to Santiago, Chile. Shortly after takeoff, the crew reported some sort of mechanical failure. Contact was lost with the aircraft and the aircraft crashed at sea. All nine crew members and 61 passengers were killed.

And of course there was the 767 accident - essentially the same aircraft:

26 May 1991; Lauda Air 767-300ER; Suphan Buri Province, Thailand: Aircraft lost control and crashed after an uncommanded deployment of a thrust reverser during climb. All 10 crew and 213 passengers were killed.

A pity your 146 experience didn't agree with you. I flew it for 10 years and rarely went tech. Maybe our engineering was better...

And I did so enjoy doing things that 757s could only dream of. I'd much rather have those years of flying into LCY, than a few extra knots or a slightly higher cruise level.

[RB311]

errr? so is the 319 and 380 a common type rating?

I'm prepared to be enlightened.

And, for what it's worth, remoak has touched a far more nerve than the other way around.

[757flyer]

no nerves here, but its great fun winding up these guys :E:E

[captplaystation]

Is this what is colloquially known as a "willie waving contest" ? :rolleyes:

[remoak]

No mate, it's known as a "let's-have-a bit-of-fun-with-a-(insert favourite pejorative term here) contest.

The point being that posting on a thread for no other reason than to slag off an aircraft type is both puerile and offensive, and as the mods don't seem to mind that sort of post, why not have a little fun? :ok: Speaking of which...

[remoak]

And no the 767 is NO WAY the same aircraft...it is a totally different aircraft, just happens to have a common type rating....be telling me next an A319 is the same as an A380errr... the reason it is a common type rating is because the two aircraft are substantially the same. And do the A319 and the A380 have a common type rating. Not really, no. I wonder why.

airlines dont want the thingApart from Lufthansa, Swiss, the UAE royal flight, Cityline, Eurowings, Air France, Atlantic Airways, Malmo, SAA Airlink... and that's only a few...

Glad to see you have respect for first officersWell, I normally respect them - until they give me a reason not to. Guess you must be one of them... so I'll put you in the same category as mr seasexsun.

looks like the only aircraft you have flown in earnest is the 146Wrong again. Sigh. Ah well, jumping to conclusions seems to be your favourite activity. Knock yourself out!

[ray cosmic]

May I vote this thread for being the dumbest for the first quarter of 2009?
Get a bloody life.

[remoak]

And you just made yourself a part of it! lol

[bluepilot]

not wishing to burst in on a good cat fight between the girls, but i just thought i would point out that the B757 and the B767 are not substantially the same. Different wing, engines, body etc, the only thing substantially the same is the flight deck. Similar differences between the A320 family and the A330, same rating but different aircraft, I think.

Ok girls seconds out round four!!

(ps should this go to jet blast?)

[Mister Geezer]

The 146/RJ and the 757 both have their pros and pitfalls.

The 146 to be honest has not really been exposed to its true niche market. I used to fly the 146 in Europe and that ain't the environment that it excels in. I am now flying the 146 in North Africa now and an auditor asked me what load I could lift from a 2000m runway with 40C OAT. I think I surprised him when I said that we could take a 'full house' with no problems.

Electric start means that a knackered APU means all we need is a GPU and not an airstart unit which are rare in the desert. :} Also the high engines mean we don't chew up lots of sand, unlike the 737 in our fleet!

The 146/RJ does not shine when it is doing mundane city to city flying in Europe!

[acebaxter]

Hi Mister Geezer,

Check your PMs please.

Thanks

[vaughan111]

Have VLM F50s been operating some of the LCY to EDI RJ schedules, and if so why?

[von baron]

It could the start of VLM's "cooperation" with Cityjet, or they just got a bit stuck and needed to rejig things to protect EDI pax.

On another note RBS are letting 20,000 staff go worldwide, who do you think were CItyJets main client base on LON EDI....I can see a very bleak summer ahead...

[Ethiopia]

May we take the discussion back to Cityjet? Any updates on when will they take Capts. and f/o s?

Thank yoU!