End of an era - last QF 747-300 departs

[slim]

For anyone who may be interested I believe the last QF 747-300 will depart Sydney tomorrow evening at 7pm destined for the desert life in Arizona. Not only the end of an era for Qantas but also the end for the rank of Flight Engineer. May those of the 'purple empire' prosper whatever they do from hereon in. :ok:

[slim]

Thanks for the correction Direct. Must ring my contact and thank him for the duff info!

[Whiskery]

So that's the end of Flight Engineers in Oz.

I read on another thread the B727 has also finished operations with some freight outfit down there in Oz.

Pity Peter Abeles isn't still around - he would have found a job for the boys. F/E panel on the A380 ! Bet you a case of Boddingtons that would have been the ONLY one in the world!

[ratpoison]

Pity Peter Abeles isn't still around - he would have found a job for the boys.
Yeah right. Just like he and Hawke did some years back.:yuk:

[Old Fella]

Slim, nearly the end my friend. The RAAF still operates C130 Hercules and P3 Orions. The Caribou also carries a crew member classified as a F/E, previously know as Crewman Tech or Loadmaster depending on when they flew on the Caribou.

[slim]

Old Fella, I was only refering to F/E's within Qantas, some of whom I believe came from the RAAF and to which some are returning :ok:

[Going Boeing]

It really is the end of a great era. The first B747 for QF arrived in 1971 and the last "classic" is leaving on the 20th Jan 2009. The average hours flown by each aircraft would be approx 95,000 achieved over 20-24 years of service. They still fly straight on their last day of service which is a credit to the purple empire who maintained them (& flew them as FEOs) as well as the many pilots who were lucky enough to get the opportunity to fly them. It's a shame that QF management isn't giving this last aircraft (& FEOs) the appropriate send-off.

[cart_elevator]

Interesting ! Cabin crew have just gotten a CIS message:

We currently still hold the Aircraft Operating Certificate (AOC) for this aircraft type and one aircraft remains in the hangar. While unlikely, this aircraft could be utilised at any time and, as a result, you will still be examined on this aircraft type until further notice.


Revolting plane to operate on, nothing ever worked !! Dreaded any trip operating on them, nothing but one long flight of PAX complaints. Most cabin crew will be glad to see the back of them.

But the FE's always had great stories to tell about the 'Good Old Days' and were always gentlemen. :ok:

What will happen to them? Do they become pilots?

[Back Seat Driver]

Cart El,
F/E's can only become pilots if they undergo a substantial partial lobotomy and promise to decrease their alcohol intake by 90%.
Then there is also the penis length reduction programme, needed to qualify as a pilot, which normally dissuades most F/E's from persuing that course. :)

[Keg]

BSD, you also forgot the personality extraction and the removal of the ability to rig hotel TV remote controls. :}

[qfcabin]

I don't know that the engineer was the sole master of rigging tv remotes. Some of those old chiefs were also rated highly in that department. And men of both categories are the repositories of some of the greatest QF yarns.
It's a sad day to see the purple brigade disappear from the flying kangaroo...some fantastic people have sat in that sideways seat!

[sthaussiepilot]

Herd a few F/E's are heading to managment...as pencil pushers...

and truth?

[max autobrakes]

Now that jackboot Geoff the scrooge has gone, how about management putting on a farewell shindig for the flight gingerbeers.
How's this for an idea ,spruce up the last 747-300 and put it in what has now become the a380 hanger and invite all the engineers and their families for a farewell/thankyou party around the aircraft?:ok:

[Shlonghaul]

END OF AN ERA FOR THE B747-300 Tuesday 20 January will mark the end of an era for Qantas, with the last of the airline's serviceable B747-300s (VH-EBV) to depart Australia, bound for Marana in Arizona. The first Qantas B747-300 entered service in 1984, with a further five aircraft delivered through to May 1987. Since then, the fleet has accumulated more than 524,000 hours and more than 97,000 cycles. Following many years of international service, the fleet reverted to operating domestically. EBV will join EBW and EBY in Arizona, pending sale. EBT was sold in 2007, while EBX was sold late last year. The retirement of the fleet also means the end of another era – Qantas' use of Flight Engineers in the cockpit.

[-438]

How about converting a classic into a fire bomber? Leave a kangaroo on the tail. Could be on the spot Australia wide in just a few hours.
What better advertising could you get in Australia?

[Wod]

the last of the airline's serviceable B747-300s


This implies, together with the rest of the flyer that EBU has been cannibalised to the point of never fly.

So what happens to the remains?

[60 & below]

I was in Avlon a few weeks ago and I was told that EBU would be used for spares until 300's are formally retired. EG Tuesday at which point Lyn Fox takes ownership and EBU will now be used for for Police training ETC

[Blue Carpet]

Cool, a 747 training aircraft at Avlon Airport.

A bit better than Melbourne Airports training aircraft F-28-4000! :8 At least the F-28 can be towed on the grass though.

[Wod]

EBU will now be used for for Police training ETC


Do they still use live ammo in those games; and is the odd cartridge still found after the aircraft has gone back on line?

I imagine the 743 is a good substitute for the 744, apart from config, so it will be easier to schedule training..

[sthaussiepilot]

I thought it was going to Star Force / AFP training? (not State Police?)

I thought they actually used paintball guns during the training exercises?

[Wod]

I'm way out of currency, and I was responding to the ETC, rather than the police comment.

It still sounds like a smart way to get something out of an otherwise useless airframe.

And it is off QF books, having presumably been written down to 10% of initial value, minus the donks and bits consumed by the other five.

[SeldomFixit]

There is a multi-million dollar, live fire, anti nasty people mock up at Holsworthy NSW. What possible use can EBU serve in this area or conversely, why were the millions spent at Holsworthy if it indeed serves any purpose at all ?

This sounds more like a cubby house for Fox's grandkids to me :=

[blow.n.gasket]

Nah they use special blanks, I was told ,in those exercises.

[Kangaroo Court]

I think old airframes should be turned into beer cans. What better way to enjoy a brew than knowing it was made from recycled aluminium that flew around the world thousands of times.:ok:

[sthaussiepilot]

I like the way you think KC :ok:

[The Green Goblin]

Only our northern distant cousins drink from cans I'm afraid (coloured red or green). Gentlemen (such as yours truly:}) drink out of a glass or a bottle :ok:

[Capt Kremin]

Can we get rid of the term "Tech Crew" now?

I trained as a pilot, not as a Techie.

[Wod]

Capt I think you are a chance, although some will not wish to change.

The Radio operator has gone; the Navigator has gone; and now, in QF at least, the depraved scrounger has gone. We won't mention Traffic Officers, coz they were a breed apart.

I'm showing my age, but I remember when they were all there on mainline intercontinental flights.

[Capt Kremin]

I am sure that many F/E's, Nav's and Radio operators didn't like the term "Tech Crew" either. It is a term meant to lump us all together. The sooner it goes the better.

[capt.cynical]

CC also refered to the "techies" as the U/M's ;)

[teresa green]

Personally I always enjoyed having a "stoker" aboard. I used to think that as a F/O, that the Captain got all the women, when I got the forth stripe, I soon found out it was the "flighty" all along, always great company, and by the time you got home, you knew how to fix your toaster/car/ tv/ boat, after a long and interesting chat normally in the middle of the night. As it is neally the end may I mention a few. From QF The late Roy Thompson, Edge Adams, John Bell, Bob Hagen, from TAA "Rughead", John Boyce, and all the great F/Es with whom I was privileged to fly with. And farewell to the classic, still a thinking mans aeroplane, no doubt she will fly on for some time yet.

[Going Boeing]

Teresa, unfortunately EBU won't be flying again but EBT was sold to a Russian airline last year and of the four remaining QF B747-300s, EBX has been sold to Evergreen - the other three have been/are being flown to Marana for "storage" in the hope that a buyer will be found. I hope that will be the case in these difficult times as they are too good to be turned into beer cans.

[nomorecatering]

So what are they going to do with the classic sim. Would make for a much better toy han Flight Sim 4.

Hmmmm, bet they would chew up a few kw/hrs

[Going Boeing]

nmc, I believe that the B743 Sim was sold last year. Bays 3 & 4, which were previously occupied by classic sims, are having Dash-8 Q300 & Q400 sims fitted. I think that one of them is already in place. The Dash8-100 sim is to be sold.

[Magoodotcom]

ATTENTION any former 743 pilots, F/Es, F/As, AME/LAMEs and fleet planners,

A friend of mine who writes for Australian Aviation is writing a story on the 'classic' for the next issue and wants to talk to you! Please PM me for contact details. :ok:

Cheers

[Pedota]

Here's another possible use for the airframes . . . make them into budget hostels!

See 747 jumbo jet becomes budget hostel in Stockholm (http://www.theage.com.au/travel/747-jumbo-jet-becomes-budget-hostel-20090119-7kky.html)

[OneDotLow]

I think old airframes should be turned into beer cans. What better way to enjoy a brew than knowing it was made from recycled aluminium that flew around the world thousands of times.

Thats all well and good, so long as they don't do it to the 767 when its time is up... Otherwise everytime you go to gently put the can down on the table, it'll grab you by surprise and crunch on! :E

[Ear Muffs]

The Final Classic just pushed:ok:

[Capt Fathom]

No doubt crewed by as many management types as they could get onboard! :rolleyes:

[Ear Muffs]

2 Captains, 1 F/O and 2 F/E's. (No S/O's left on type):ok:

[Old Fella]

CK, you may have trained as a pilot but I presume you also did a "tech" course as part of your type endorsement. Your post infers that you feel your position as a pilot was lowered in value by being considered "tech crew". No one employed in an aircraft crew is not needed, from the LHS to the rear galley.

[Capt Kremin]

I did a conversion course. Some call it a tech course, I don't.
The term Tech crew was necessary when there were more than one job description on a flight deck. That era has passed so please just call me what I am. One of the pilots. Not one of the tech crew.
I really don't see it as being a big leap to make.

[airtags]

Magoo & Muffs

had one of the pool news crews grab some vision this evening - despite my spin though, there's not much chance of it getting up as a story in the next few days - esp., given the Washington focus but...... hey - at least it's now in the library.

None the less, can say that I always found the F/E's to be absolutely good value

Maybe Steve Creedy could give a few pars in the Oz on Friday - although the a/c is older than the primary demographic.

- be inspired by progress and technology but never forget the spirit of tradition.

AT :ok:

[hadagutfull]

hmmm... tech crew or pilot....

so to be the pilot... you just do that, pilot the plane

so now we call the engineers tech crew then.... cool!!

Well, when there is a technical issue, dont get involved or have an opinion on a technical matter..... leave it to the tech crew!!

Am I taking things too literal??:ok:


Just a wind up... relax

[Old Fella]

CK, I am tempted to call you what I think you are, but my better judgement says it would probably have no impact on you. If you are flying on an aircraft which carries more than one crew member you are, plain and simple, one of the crew. Who gives a tinker's cuss about whether you are a pilot or cabin crew? You are crew and if you need to be called a pilot to puff up your ego, tough luck. The fact is most pax never see you, especially now post 9/11, and all they care about is being comfortable and getting good cabin service. All most will recall is how well they were looked after and, unless you create a "rubber jungle" down the back on landing, the last people they will think about are the "tech crew", oops "pilots".

[ACMS]

YAWN............................


shame about the Classics leaving though.

I guess I'll see them in the Desert. :sad:

[noip]

A marker in aviation history.

Pity the beancounters don't see it that way.


N

[denabol]

I've been following Plane Talking. It had a savage item linking the last 743 to the management failures at Qantas, especially in maintenance.

[lowerlobe]

The funny thing about the 300's is that I remember when I first worked on one I thought they were state of the art...well when compared to the 200.

No spiral staircase...better galleys etc....But now we look at them and compared to the latest 400's and the new airbuses and they seem very agricultural...

As far as the term technical crew is concerned,this was to differentiate between flight deck crew and Cabin Crew...it did not matter whether you were a pilot or flight engineer,you were a tech crew.

[distracted cockroach]

OK so I've had a read through the thread and nobody has answered the question "what happens to the F/Es now?"
Are they made redundant, or does Qantas assist them into a flying role (as Air NZ did with their F/Es)?

[Capt Kremin]

LL, the term Tech crew was used when there were several job descriptions on a flight deck. There used to be four, now there is only one-pilot.

Flight attendants used to be called air hostesses until the advent of males into the job. Now the job is called Flight attendant. We have moved on.

I don't see this as being revolutionary, or offensive. Airliners are now crewed by only pilots and Flight attendants. Why would people take offense. I never got a Tech crew license or studied to be a tech crew. The passengers call us pilots, not tech crew. They don't even know what the term means.
Just call me by my job description. Why is that such a big leap?

[mcgrath50]

CK,

To back up you argument until spending some time at QF I had never heard of the term Tech Crew.

It's an amazing aircraft that links us to the path, any chance of one going up the Longreach?

[Short_Circuit]

The Classic fleet was the backbone of Qantas International. It is a sad day to see the last one go. I have maintained them all my working career of 3 decades and will miss the old clunkers much more than the DC4 or 707.

As for the tech crew debate, why do we have Tech Crew Rest Facilities - for the Tech Crew! Guess we could pull them out now there is no tech crew. :}

[Going Boeing]

"what happens to the F/Es now?"

Over many years, as the number of Flight Engineers reduced, many were retrained as pilots (some of whom are now captains). There were two main groups, one very early nineties and one mid-nineties. Some of the F/E's unfortunately did not pass the aptitude tests and remained F/E's through to retirement or to the recent demise of the "Classic" from the fleet. There are some very good redundancy provisions in their EBA (for most of them) and I've heard that a couple of the junior F/E's who don't have the EBA provisions, have been given "technical" positions within Flight Operations. I hope that QF management look after all of them properly in their involuntary retirement.

[Transition Layer]

But if we weren't called Tech Crew then what would they call TCMs? (Tech Crew Moles :) )

I prefer Tech Crew or techie to "Flight Deck" - the term used by a lot of our London based Cabin Crew. It seems that this is a pretty commonly used term in the UK. Now THAT is a stupid name! We don't call the Cabin Crew "galley" do we?

But yes, it would be great if we could move on and be called Pilots. I'm fine as long as the Cabin Crew don't call me something derogatory!

[Old Fella]

mcgrath50. I'm not surpriosed you had not heard the term Tech Crew after checking your public profile. It seems CK feels that to be referred to as Tech Crew demeans his station in life. As lowerlobe pointed out the term Tech Crew was/is used to differentiate between Cockpit Crew and Cabin Crew, nothing more or less. The term has been used, as CK pointed out in one of his posts, to lump us all together. Well CK, on those aircraft which carried other cockpit crew besides pilots, you were all lumped together because you were all required to be there for the normal operation of the aircraft.

I don't know whether CK has ever crewed an aircraft with other than pilots operating in the cockpit. If he has I would take a guess that he feels superior, being a pilot and all. As for his ascertion that many F/E's, Navigators etc disliked being referred to as Tech Crew, I would be surprised if many even considered the tag as anything other than what it was meant to achieve. :ok:

[Flight Detent]

From CKs own post - quote

"That era has passed so please just call me what I am. One of the pilots. Not one of the tech crew."

- unquote

I think a modification to that may be in order for CK, the term "Systems Manager" seems appropriate for him, since he insists on being called "What I am!"

Once the A/P is engaged at 400 feet (or so!), what else is there to do?

I knew you would like it, you asked for it!

Cheers...FD...:)

Just a joke...no offence intended!

[ACMS]

A lot of Airlines refer to those people that work in front of the cockpit door as TECH CREW.

Big deal, who cares and GET OVER IT.


Lets face it, you can be called a lot worse. ( Like Warren for eg )

[mcgrath50]

I'm not entirely against Tech Crew. In fact I don't particularly care. My simple fact was as an outsider to the terms it took me a while to figure out if they where referring to pilots, cabin crew, engineers, or all lumped in together until you look at the context...

Having said that if there is one thing I have learnt since starting my journey on becoming a member of 'tech crew' it's that all of aviation has many terms that outsiders wouldn't understand or know.

It is good to see that QF is taking care of the guys (and gals?) who are losing there jobs .

[Capt Kremin]

Old Fella you seem to take offense at the suggestion. I don't know why.

The term is now redundant with the loss of the Flight Engineers. I never introduced one of my many Flight engineer mates to anyone as "Here is Joe Bloggs-Tech Crew" It was always "Joe Bloggs-Flight Engineer" in proper recognition of the job he did.

The term "Air Hostess" became redundant after males entered the profession. A better job title, something that also recognised the safety related aspects of the job as well as the service component was coined.
"Flight attendant." Most Flight attendants I know get very upset these days if you refer to them as a "Hostie" yet for years that was the term.

It became redundant.

Ground engineers aren't called "Tech crew" even though their contribution is vital to the operation AND completely technical. People call them by the job they do. I am not demeaned by the term tech crew except that it is meaningless and not what I do.

I am not asking to be called " Golden haired Sky Warrior" or "Your Overlordship".

What is the big deal about calling pilots.."Pilots"?

There is no-one else on the flight deck these days to be offended by that.

[Old Fella]

CK, I have not taken offense at your suggestion. I know only too well that the Cockpit Crew in Qantas has been reduced to only Pilots. I am just surprised that you seem to want the term Tech Crew removed, almost before the last -300 gets to the desert. I never bothered with a job description when introducing mates, Pilots, Nav's or F/E's. If those to whom I introduced my mates wanted to know it would usually come out in conversation.

The term Tech Crew is really an "in house" one anyway. If being known as the Pilot is important to you, your choice of course. Just got the impression you feel the term somehow implies a reduction in your importance.

Times do change I know, few would describe a good night out these days as "being a gay old time" as the song says.

Happy, long and smooth flying.

[lowerlobe]

Capt Kremin....

It could be a lot worse as I remember that BA Cabin Crew used to refer to their flight deck crew as 'Nigels'.....I'm not going to speculate why...maybe a lot of them were named Nigel....you'd have to ask them.

As far as our Cabin Crew are concerned ,when I started with QF, we were called Flight Stewards....the girls were called Flight Hostesses and it was not until the politically correct era began that we became Flight attendants....

I also imagine that the reason why ground Engineers were not called tech crew was because they were not crew on the aircraft.....they were ground engineers and crew were the people who worked on the aircraft when it did what is was supposed to do...fly

In the end though does it really matter?

As long as they paid me and there was a cold beer or two and a quiet room at the end of the day I don't care what my title was...

Especially when Hairdressers started calling themselves Hair technicians....

[Wod]

'tis minor thread drift, but I always thought the job specs of Flight Hostess and Flight Steward called for different roles. Nanny skills and European conversational savoire faire from one group, and sommelier and life-raft lugging from t'other group. When the role distinction went, the Flight Attendant arrived.

Having followed the thread, I now agree with Captain K. Tech crew was a convenient term in it's day. It is now redundant.

[18-Wheeler]

LL, the term Tech crew was used when there were several job descriptions on a flight deck. There used to be four, now there is only one-pilot.

Flight attendants used to be called air hostesses until the advent of males into the job. Now the job is called Flight attendant. We have moved on.

I don't see this as being revolutionary, or offensive. Airliners are now crewed by only pilots and Flight attendants. Why would people take offense. I never got a Tech crew license or studied to be a tech crew. The passengers call us pilots, not tech crew. They don't even know what the term means.

Ah-hem .... they're not passengers any more, they're 'customers' - which ****s me greatly.
I've got no problem with being called either a pilot or tech crew though.

[mcgrath50]

18 why does that **** you?

Yes they are customers but they are also customers paying for a service ;)

[RAD_ALT_ALIVE]

Year ago, when Australia's then second biggest airline (now only a memory) retired it's last F/E crewed airplane - and I can't remember whether it was the B743 or the B727 - it was suggested that all manuals be amended to remove the term 'technical crew'.

It was soundly knocked on the head as being a particularly ridiculous idea. From memory the reason was that it might be a bit of an ask to have the cabin crew re-learn the common term for us flightdeck-dwellers.

Sounds as though the wheel just keeps on turning.:rolleyes:

As someone once said to me; "I don't care what they call me, so long as they don't call me late for dinner.";)

18 Wheeler, if you were truly unlucky in this life and were forced to work for Australia's current second biggest airline (and let's face it, life's too short by far for that caper ((prepare for incoming:})), you'd have to call passengers by the exalted term 'guests'!!! Oh yes, and you'd have to make mention of 'boys and girls' in every P.A. too.

And for those who don't get the irony...I have many friends who love working for them, and it's their legs that I'm so obviously pulling. So to speak.

[capt.cynical]

Hey Capt.K. how does the term "Technical Attendants" grab ya !! :bored:;)

[triton140]

Ah-hem .... they're not passengers any more, they're 'customers' - which ****s me greatly.

And it ****s me equally ....

When I'm not flying around in the left seat of my bug-smasher, I'm SLF on big planes. And I'm a passenger, not a customer.

Customer is when I walk into a store and have a bit of a browse and then walk out again with or without goods tucked under my arm.

Passenger is when I step on the conveyance of my choice, and step off some time later at a new place. Different. Calling me a customer somehow denigrates the whole transport bit.

While I'm at it, I could never figure why Qantas had to rename the Flight Service Director (now that title had some presence, and for SLF the FSD seemed to have real authority) to friggin' Customer Service Manager - sounds like someone at the front desk in Coles.

Grumpy old man? You betchya!

[capt.cynical]

Triton, it all started to go tits up from 95 on. Blame the Bow-tied one.:*:yuk:

[mustafagander]

To return to the thread for a moment....

The TECH CREW who delivered the last QF B747-300 to Marana are here in LAX about to invade a crew room after the bar has closed to discuss the various issues concerning the loss of the last QF B743.

I am about to join them. I feel qualified after 21 years and over 13,000 hours in various flight deck seats, starting as FEO.

Sic transit gloria!!!

Oh yes, I care not whether I am referred to as "Tech Crew".

[Blip]

Did anyone here manage to take photos of the departure from Sydney?

[BrissySparkyCoit]

That era has passed so please just call me what I am.No worries, driver.

(um, by the way, I think you will find it is 'Licence' and 'Offence', don't trust Billy's spell checker!)

[Going Boeing]

http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr29/Going_Boeing/EBV.jpg?t=1232681336

Gordstar, hope that works.

Oops, as cool banana says, this piccy is of one of the SPs being broken up a few years ago. I should have had a closer look before posting. Apologies for the duff gen. GB

[Capt Kremin]

Capt Cynical. About the same as the term Bun Tosser would grab you I suppose?

[capt.cynical]

A little bit of respect please Capt.K. I think "CHIEF Bun Tosser" is more appropriate.:)

[Gordstar]

Thanks for the pic Going Boeing,,,,,not sure if it is just me,,,but I cannot open the pic?

Can you resubmit please?

Ta

[Capt Kremin]

Well you see, that is the point isn't it? These terms are generally used to diminish the worth of the other person, usually for very small-minded reasons.

Some here want to call me a driver or a systems operator yet I do exactly the same job as the pilots who recently did such an outstanding job in the Hudson, over the Philipines and off WA.

Not only the pilots but all the respective flight attendants as well. The defining characteristic of these people were not that they were somehow the only people who could have saved those situations, but that they were bog standard crews doing what they were all trained to do.

So when people call a Flight Attendant a "bun tosser", I let them know rather quickly that I don't care for the remark. The flight attendants on the Hudson A320 did a fantastic job. 10 minutes after probably discussing with their colleagues some idle gossip or details of their day, they were standing on a wing in an icy river with every single one of their passengers accounted for. In short, they did their job.

I talked to one of the QF girls down in the back galley when the QF30 has its incident. She'd been in the company a couple of months. When the bottle blew, she heard an enormous explosion and the aircraft pitched suddenly down very quickly (John and the boys doing their jobs)! Her first thought was that Al Quaida had got them and they were going down. She thought she was going to die. When it eventually became apparent that the aircraft was under control, she pulled herself together, assisted the passengers both in the air and after the incident on the ground. She did her job and did it brilliantly.

You can make light of my little campaign, but I believe in giving people due respect. Every one of us may one day be thrust into the same situations these people faced. Those people aren't bun-tossers, systems operators or drivers. They are pilots (and formerly flight engineers) and flight attendants.

Don't publicly diminish our own jobs and then complain when management doesn't show you any respect.

[Cool banana]

Going Boeing, the picture is one of the two SP getting broken up....Not EBV

[Old Fella]

CK. Your "little campaign" is a little flawed. I think you have confirmed my initial belief was correct. Although you say you are not demeaned by being known as Tech Crew in a previous post, (#61 I think), you say now in your latest that the term is usually meant to diminish the worth of another. You add "Don't publicly diminish our own jobs etc etc". By the way, I am one who openly condemned former PM Bob Hawke when he classified pilots as "nothing more than glorified bus drivers", not because I thought it demeaned pilots, but rather because it demeaned bus drivers.

[Nunc]

Old Fella you really come across as a bitter and twisted old man, why don'd you start another thread to push whatever point you are trying to make.:ugh:

Now back to the topic, very sorry to see the old girl go. Got a great view of the departure at Mascot and was surprised there was not a bigger turnout to see her off.

[Old Fella]

Nunc Not at all. If you care to read all the posts I have only expressed surprise that CK feels so strongly that being referred to as Tech Crew should cease and that he apparently feels the tag demeans or diminishes his qualifications. Everyone knows that the pilots pilot the aircraft and, as I said before, Tech Crew is an industry term anyway. Everyone in the airline industry knows what it means and that it refers to those employed forward of the cockpit door. It does not impact on me in any way anymore. Another thing, am I the only one in five pages of posts to ask of CK his real motive for wanting the term removed? I don't think so.

[Capt Kremin]

Old Fella, if your situation is as I believe it to be, then my post was probably ill-timed. I apologize for that.
It has nothing to do with F/E's and their place in aviation.

[Old Fella]

CK Please check your PM's. Regards Old Fella.

[TWOTBAGS]

Tech crew is a generic term that has been used to dumb down the profession.

Half the professional Flight Engineers I know have either been known as one of two things:

The Coachman, because they sit behind two arseholes all day :ok:..... or

The Voice Activated Autothrottle.....:}


either way after a few beers and a bit of ribbing a good crew will always get down to basics, be they "the Voice" a "Coachie" a "driver" "line dancer" (as in magenta.... well maybe) or simply that dumb prick sitting at the window!

Get over it and live life, if you cant see the funny side of things there is no place in aviation for you.

Way to many people I have come across have had a terminal sense of humour failure:oh:

avagoodweekend :E

[Ken Borough]

Well said Mr Bags. There are some people here who are undoubtedly vertically challenged, wear big watches, parade about Safeway with their gold epaulettes and scrambled egg so they can impress the check-out chicks, and insist that all correspondence be addressed as 'Captain...........".

"Techies" or "tech crew' are are shorthand, and an even affectionate way, of describing those who have forward facing window seats at the front of an aeroplane as opposed to "cabin crew" who attend to the saftey, social and other needs of the SLF. The former are also called Flight Crew, Cockpit Crew and Operating Crew. That they are called drivers and so on is no different to cabin crew being colloquially known as Bun Tossers, Sandwich Chuckers, Cart Tarts, Trolley Dollies and so on. It's exactly the same for spanner-turners, bag throwers, bean-counters, bag snatchers, tin-bashers, sparkies, screen-jockeys etc etc ad nauseum. Do we hear any of these people, or other tradies/professions, railing against being known by their flippant and affectionate appellations.

Time to grow up, mentally if not physically, and get a life.

Cheers.

[mrdeux]

Just under 3000 hours in the Classic, and it's also just passed the 20th anniversary of my last flight in one. The engineers were always good for a story or two, and always seemed to find the darkest haunts for a beer. In the last 20 years of flying electric jets, I've missed the very deep systems knowledge that the engineers had, and which very few pilots come close to. A phone call back to maintenance watch just isn't the same thing.

And terminology...well I suspect none of us have issues with home grown terms, but I certainly don't like the ones that come from (or at least seem to) marketing types. When I joined QF I came from a world in which pilots were pilots. Observers were just that. They were collectively aircrew. I doubt that tech crew was invented to lump the pilots/engineers together, but rather to make sure they were different to the cabin crew. Both might be correct, but both are divisive terms. An aircraft has a crew, and when **** happens the results depend upon the performance of all of that crew.

Passengers are passengers. Coles and Woolworths have customers. And if the passengers are guests, does that mean they don't have to pay for the ticket. Purser is a job description that is pretty well understood. Flight service director is a complex way of saying the same thing (and it annoyed me any time I heard it having the middle word dropped). Customer service manager seems like complex marketing speak, and was immediately converted to chief sandwich maker (or some less salubrious terms).

Marketing speak sticks its head up all over the place. The recently replaced (thank god) QF safety announcement was a horrid example of the breed. Full of pseudo pilot-speak, it did a poor job of getting the message across, and actually took about 30 seconds longer than the one it replaced.

[Old Fella]

mrdeux Thank you for your so well put contribution, and your endorsement of the contributions made by the FE in days past. The most important point made, I think, is that every member of the crew has to do their part, especially when the "**** hits the fan", to ensure the best possible outcome. In my less eloquent way I tried to make the same point.
Far from being bitter and twisted, as Nunc believes, I am very happily retired with many great memories of times spent with numerous crew members from one end of the aircraft to the other. As I previously said, when introducing fellow crew members their "job description" was not part of the introduction. As for the marketing of a product, reality often goes out the door and we are bombarded with bull****.

[dragon man]

I could never work out why we had Customer Service Managers but still kept pax evacuation checklists. Some how that one must have slipped through.

[flyergirl]

Ok, work this one out. When its safety related they are 'passengers', but when its service related they are 'customers'. Confused? Yep. me too. ANYWAY, back to topic, although they were a great aircraft in their time, it was time to go, and I say goodbye, grand old ladies....will miss you...and the engineers, always good for a laugh. Hope to see you all on staff travel soon, enjoying retirement.

[ACMS]

Customer Service Manager:-- QF terminology for PR BS

Passenger ( as in checklists ):--- Boeing terminology

So unless QF change the Boeing approved checklist...........................................??

[another superlame]

So much for reminiscing about the last of the classics, this thread has turned into a bitch slapping session.

[Led Zep]

My first and last flight on a "classic" was memorable. On rotation a large amount of water started to leak from the ceiling onto the unfortunate passengers across the other side of the cabin. :} Didn't ease for a while.
I had a good trip though! First and so far only time on Boeing's finest. Flying on an A340 feels no different to an A330. Stepping onboard the "classic" and feeling slightly lost was something else.