how to log A320 on NZ log book

[TZZ]

Hi everyone,

I would like to know how to log my hrs in my NZ log i fly A320 and doing line training at the moment, the sections i have in my logbook for multi engine is dual,pic,copilot and command practise.So i would like to know where to log the hrs when i am doing line training and after i am cleared as first officer where to log the remaining hrs.

cheers

[PBY]

Log it all as a copilot.
:ok:

[framer]

Yeah once you have pax in the back it is co-pilot....unless you are cost sharing with them to build hours then you have to file VFR and only go to food and wine festivals.

[captaintunedog777]

Crock of s^#$

With your resourcefulness you should go a long way in the aviation world. Assuming you pass your training your first few Captains will be in for 1 hell of a ride


Have to be a windup

[tinpis]

I think the wine may not be appropriate in this case.
Insha'Allah

[ZKSTF]

Yeah, surely a wind up. How does one get to fly an A320 without doing some prior "two crew" flying (and hence knowing how to fill in a logbook)?

There might be exceptions to this (rather) general rule but.......

[sharpclassic]

Hello CTC Cadet,

Well done on the placement... who's it with?

What I did was to buy a new UK CAA log book from somewhere like Transair and start that from my first circuits session with my airline. That log book will then be a record of your airline career only. There is a section at the start where you can enter hours brought forward from your training in NZ and BOH. If you go for any other jobs in future, this log book will suffice.

At the same time, I also carried on entering my jet time into my NZ log book by entering sectors where I was PF under the Multi PiC column and PNF sectors under the Multi Co-Pilot column. Probably not strictly true but it's the best you can do!

Hope you're not on the crappy Flexi scheme!

P.S Ignore the previous 3 useless posts :rolleyes:

[distracted cockroach]

"At the same time, I also carried on entering my jet time into my NZ log book by entering sectors where I was PF under the Multi PiC column and PNF sectors under the Multi Co-Pilot column. Probably not strictly true but it's the best you can do!"

Surely you mean the PF time goes in the Command Practice column?
Unless you are the Pilot In Command (ie normally the Captain!) you cannot log co-pilot time (even when you actually pole the thing around) as PiC.

[sharpclassic]

Distracted Cockroach,

That's exactly what I should have done (I love hindsight!)

TZZ, take note of the cockroach, his idea is much better than mine for your PF sectors!

[Peter Fanelli]

Sad when an airliner pilot hasn't yet learned how to fill out a fecking logbook.

[remoak]

You just have to hope that he is a foreign national who has switched from a different format of logbook.

Otherwise... God help us...

[tinpis]

I would imagine the 1000 hour skipper seated next to him would be able to advise him :uhoh:

Erm....perhaps they have logs that read from right to left?

[Pluto's gone]

ZK... Many many many a pilots first two crew experience is infact in a large transport jet. Years in GA belting around in piston twinss and bingo into an airliners right hand seat. Not to mention the same with the progression to the QF third seat.

[TZZ]

thank you guys.

[distracted cockroach]

I've often wondered how one should log S/O time....I'm assuming it is co-pilot time by definition....assuming one has a full type rating and instrument rating?
If that's the case where do you put "Self"? If in the co-pilot column, then where does the F/O's name go?
Jeeze, these things will keep me awake at night with worry!!

[flysaucer1200]

TZZ, are you for real? are you genuine? are you fairdinkum mate?

Don't you have some one around the Sims or school that you can ask?

Make sure you get the log book perfect, because the ink is minute compared to the price of a 320 ( sim or real experience )

I am confused by this thread no less.

I can't answer your question correctly, becuase i do not have 2 crew time and any way, i wouldn't want to ruin anything for you

Kind regards

FS120o:ok::ok::ok::ok:

[Global Xpress]

Question related to this thread (well sort of).
How does one log full flight simulator time for the purposes of obtaining an endorsement? (such as a 737 fidelity full motion simulator) Is it regarded as in flight dual, as some have told me, or ground time only?:confused:

[DeltaT]

As far as I know Zero Flight Time Full Motion Sim time is logged as Dual, as well as Ground based IF.

[Chocks Away]

Firstly Global Express:
Your Sim classification determines your log entry. All Bizjet & Airliner category Sims have "levels", from fixed base through to full motion. The 737 sims at Alteon for example are "F.F.S L5" = Full flight Sim, Level 5 = same as the real thing, so as such can go in as "real flight time" for your logbook. An entry alongside, in the "ground" or other ancillary column is a good idea for ease of hours separation.

TZZ
Assuming you got a Command A320 endorsement, you can't log "Command" time until signed out as Capt with your A.T.P.L airline.
Prior to line training as a Co-pilot, you no doubt did an "Entry Sim/Check ride/Assessment" which validated your IFR & ATPL Co-pilot seat for training within the airline... from here the line training you do goes in as Co-pilot (NOT I.C.U.S/command practice). Remember, you are training to be proficient as a Co-Pilot first. Gotta walk before you can run.
After you are "checked to line" as a proficient Co-pilot, your time goes in as Co-Pilot.
Then, ICUS/Command Practice can only go in, when flying as a Co-Pilot with a Check/Trng Capt, after you're online, or doing Upgrade training to captain.

I too was unsure about this, some years back but found out by asking the Older Checkies. Sadly many of the new-breed/Weetbix box Checkies don't have any idea and as such, logbook discipline and reflections of a candidates correct flight time has decreased.

I hope this helps.:ok:

[knox]

I know TZZ and can assure everyone that this is not a wind up.

Knox.

[twista]

This guy has a real job flying real planes with low hours and has done well, give the guy some slack :ok:

[Peter Fanelli]

What is the criteria for determining what is a "real plane"
Personally I have a lot more respect for a pilot flying a light twin or single into a bush strip lit only by flares in the middle of the night for the sole purpose of rescuing some abo with alcohol poisoning.

[minimum_wage]

I know who TZZ is as well and he is for real, and is NOT a CTC cadet. Give him a break.

Hope all is well back home TZZ.

[TZZ]

Thanks everyone

[Capt Fathom]

What people will do for a few extra hours.....:=

In Australia, logging of Simulator 'hours' as flight-time is not allowed.

Logging of Flight Time (http://www.casa.gov.au/fcl/flight_time.htm)

You will notice under this section: Flight Simulator or Synthetic Trainer Time, the only mention of logging of time is in regards to Instrument time.

The details of Simulator sessions can be recorded, but only as Ground-Time, not Flight-Time!

What's next. The simulator check pilot counting all his simulator time as copilot hours! :rolleyes:

[crosscutter]

Tzz - Retard Retard

[Oxidant]

I cringe every time this subject is brought up..................

Every Country has slightly different rules in how to log flight & simulator time.
So, a wise man would consult the relevant CAA web site & read the rules.
In NZ it is the Civil Aviation Authority of New Zealand (http://www.caa.govt.nz) & look at Part 61. In the UK the doc. is "LASORS"

May I suggest you look there before listening to some of the less informed posts on this thread?:ugh:

[Chocks Away]

Good point.
Yes, NZ is different to ICAO Annex 1, specifically 2.5.1.3.1 - No credit for "Synthetic" flight time.
I didn't realise also how far behind Part 61 is.
The realistic full motion and visuals of todays Sims are hardly "Synthetic/artificial". (I'm heading for the bunker with that comment:})
My information was sourced from Boeing Instructors and an old Oz AIC but yes, the rules of the land should be applied.

I think it's this section that is key for many newbies, especially those short of Command time and what TZZ was after (?):

(i) A pilot may not credit flight time recorded as pilot-in-command under
supervision (PIC/US) towards the flight time experience requirements for
an airline transport pilot licence.

[TZZ]

well i never logged the simulator times because the company i am flying with told me not to log sim, so other then that i think i will log my line training and remaining as copilot.

[twista]

So many haters in these forums, you guys are hilarious :)

[Dixons Cider]

Have a look at the inside front cover of your log book TZZ, it tells you exactly what should go into coloumn 15.

Remember always, your log book is yours and yours alone, and you fill it accordingly.
I did my time with "the company you are flying with", not gonna get down and dirty about that, but look after number 1 man, because they're not going to. Of course you log sim time, its you're record of your training time. Dunno which turkey in the pink palace told you that, but I hope its not too late to change it.

just to clarify - log it in column 15, but it does not count as flight time.

[TZZ]

well i havnt log anything yet but i think i will log the sim.
And one more question line training what do u think i should log as dual or copilot durring the time i have cover pilot.

cheers

[Peter Fanelli]

well i never logged the simulator times because the company i am flying with told me not to log sim


ok, so this would be an instruction from your company.


well i havnt log anything yet but i think i will log the sim.


How many other company instructions, procedures etc do you plan to ignore during this career of yours flying the A320?

[RadioSaigon]

How many other company instructions, procedures etc do you plan to ignore during this career of yours flying the A320?

hmmmm... a bit harsh perhaps? I think perhaps regulator requirements (dependant on where you are of course) may trump company instructions and procedures.

The NZ logbook (the document in question here) has a column (#15) titled Instrument/Ground, which is where all my sim-time is logged. Time logged in this column does not accrue to any aircraft or flight-time totals, and it is my understanding that every entry in this column must be countersigned by the sim instructor. They certainly are in my logbook anyway. Before anyone asks, no I don't have a reference for this, but I'm sure there'll be something in the CAR's that'll provide definitive answers.

[DeltaT]

Lets not get talking about the Qantas SO that log the entire flight in their logbooks, and those FO that log the scheduled flight times either...