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Chesty Morgan
13th Jan 2009, 09:27
PLANE:
A plane is a tool for shaping wood. Planes are used to flatten, reduce the thickness of, and impart a smooth surface to a rough piece of lumber. Special types of planes are designed to cut joints or decorative mouldings.

Also sounds like PLAIN:
In geography, a plain is an area of land with relatively low relief — meaning that it is flat.

Can also mean, amongst other things, BORING, DULL, AVERAGE and ORDINARY.

An AEROplane is none of these things. Understand?:ugh:

ShyTorque
13th Jan 2009, 09:31
An AEROplane is none of these things. Understand?
Try tellling that to a helicopter pilot.... :=

Kolibear
13th Jan 2009, 09:35
Is the flat bottom surface of a bar of aerated chocolate an Aero plane ?

sitigeltfel
13th Jan 2009, 09:43
The rain in Spain falls mainly on the plain.

Does that mean the beautiful people stay dry?

Chesty Morgan
13th Jan 2009, 09:43
Ah but a heliicopter is defined as an aircraft. Aircraft can also be used when referring to an aeroplane as aircraft simply means a vehicle which can fly through the atmosphere.

BladePilot
13th Jan 2009, 09:58
Surley an Aero Plane is the tool they use to shape the Aero Bar at Willie Wonkers Chocolate factory:confused:

Helol
13th Jan 2009, 10:04
I heard a lady Brit on Radio 4 the other day refer to an aeroplane as an 'airplane'!

bnt
13th Jan 2009, 10:11
I thought it went like this:
"The Snakes, in Spain,
Stay mainly on this **$£&[email protected]# Plane!"

dakkg651
13th Jan 2009, 10:38
"Never ever call it a plane Bader. It's an aeroplane"

From the film Reach for the Sky.

'Airplane' is just another example of the american habit of bastardising the English language.

eg Aluminum, potaytoe, tomaytoe, shagwar etc.

AMF
13th Jan 2009, 10:52
Helol...I heard a lady Brit on Radio 4 the other day refer to an aeroplane as an 'airplane'!

Well, if it takes off and lands at an airport or airfield, such as Heathrow Airport, it follows that it IS an "airplane". To be an "aeroplane" it has to operate out of an aerodrome, which if fine if you happen to be flying a Spad or Camel, but referring to an airport as such makes you sound like a stuffy [email protected] if you're not. In practice, only the French can rightfully get away with calling airplanes "aeroplanes" since they operate out of "aeroports". Also, an airplane is a type of "aircraft", not "aerocraft".

But the Wright Brothers called what they built and flew a "flying machine", and since they invented it, that's really the correct term.

Chesty Morgan
13th Jan 2009, 11:03
Well Aero stems from the Greek word for Air so saying Airplane as not as bad as just calling it a 'plane.

And I suppose we should say Airnautics and Rockwell Air Commander too!?

Edit to add 'Aero' is also the latin prefix relating to flight and 'Air' is just, well, air!

dakkg651
13th Jan 2009, 11:08
"But the Wright Brothers called what they built and flew a "flying machine", and since they invented it, that's really the correct term."


In that case we should all go back to driving "horseless carriages".

If AMF is correct then there will have to be a few changes.

BAe - British Airspace.
RAS - Royal Airnautical Society.
RA - Royal Airclub.
Airbatics
Nestle Air chocolate bars.

AMF
13th Jan 2009, 11:09
dakkg651 "Never ever call it a plane Bader. It's an aeroplane"

From the film Reach for the Sky.

'Airplane' is just another example of the american habit of bastardising the English language.

eg Aluminum, potaytoe, tomaytoe, shagwar etc.

The English bastardized their own English language by Frenchifying it for use by the Royals and aristocrats after the Norman invasion and then again after the Cromwellian Era was over. Americans purposely revolted against this revolting practice (like tea-drinking) during the American Revolution. One of the 23 languages Noah Webster (the 1st English dictionary guy and an American Revolutionary War patriot) knew was original Anglo-Saxon, so he knew "English" in it's original form better than the English then or 99.9999% of them now, and purposely dropped most forms of English-French (i.e. monarchist) spelling in favor of more Anglo-Saxon roots.

The Oxford Dictionary was late into the game, being completed almost 100 years after Webster's. As an aside, the guy who "discovered" aluminum wanted to call it "alumium", not the silly-sounding "aluminium".

AMF
13th Jan 2009, 11:25
dakkg651

In that case we should all go back to driving "horseless carriages".

Was the original patent of the world's first successful car filed for a "horseless carriage"? Well, if it was, much like the Wright's patent for a powered flying machine was for a "flying machine", then I guess we should.

If AMF is correct then there will have to be a few changes.

BAe - British Airspace.
RAS - Royal Airnautical Society.
RA - Royal Airclub.
Airbatics
Nestle Air chocolate bars.

Your above examples to make a case for "aero" nomenclature is tragically flawed because "Aerospaces", Aeronauticals", and "Aeroclubs" aren't aircraft..the tangible piece of machinery that does the flying through the air... like the airplane is. If you were correct, you may as well make an argument that "We breathe the aero".

And I don't think you'll convince any Americans to begin using the nickname Michael "Aero" Jordan anytime soon, let alone Nike re-naming it's shoes.

dakkg651
13th Jan 2009, 11:31
AMF

How dare you sir!

The Normans were certainly not French.
Even today they consider themselves seperate.

As for our civilised practice of tea drinking, do not forget that we Brits have still not forgiven you colonials for that appalling incident in Boston Harbour.

And the only French word I know is 'surrender'.

fokker
13th Jan 2009, 11:31
AMF,

How you can presume to give lectures on English grammar whilst committing a solecism such as "..it's shoes..." or "...it's original form.." is, quite simply, beyond comprehension.

Go and look it up, boy!

:ugh:;)

dakkg651
13th Jan 2009, 11:43
AMF

OK you win.

You're P51 was a great little airplane.












Especially when it was fitted with a proper aero engine by us Brits.

sitigeltfel
13th Jan 2009, 11:57
AMF

How dare you sir!

The Normans were certainly not French.
Even today they consider themselves seperate.

Hmmm....not really.

The "Normands" who went on that boat trip in 1066 were so assimilated through marriage and interbreeding (since 911) that there was hardly a Scandinavian gene left among them. Just look at the names they carried with them. Every French region likes to maintain its own identity and they are no different. Most other French people are a bit condescending towards them now, looking on them as a bit hick, but I find them amongst the warmest and friendliest in the country.

FlyingOfficerKite
13th Jan 2009, 13:24
The dictionary on my computer states that the origins are French:

ORIGIN late 19th cent.: from French aéroplane, from aéro- ‘air’ + Greek -planos ‘wandering.’

Something that wanders (flies) through the air!

Obvious.

FOK :)

jez d
13th Jan 2009, 14:31
'Kite' is the correct terminology.

Captain Lord Flashheart: "Treat your kite like your woman!"

Lieutenant George: "What - you mean take her home at the weekend to meet your mother, Sir?"

Captain Lord Flashheart: "No, I mean climb inside her three times a day and take her to heavan and back!"

:ok:

Captain Stable
13th Jan 2009, 14:37
"Aircraft"
- subdivided into heavier than air and lighter than air.

Lighter than air
- balloons, airships.

Heavier than air
- subdivided into aeroplanes and helicopters (fixed-wing and rotary, planks and flingwings/strimmers/wokkers)

Aeroplanes
- subdivided into powered and gliders/sailplanes

AMF
13th Jan 2009, 18:03
dakkg651 AMF

OK you win.

You're P51 was a great little airplane.

Especially when it was fitted with a proper aero engine by us Brits.

They're you go again!


fokker quote.. AMF, How you can presume to give lectures on English grammar whilst committing a solecism such as "..it's shoes..." or "...it's original form.." is, quite simply, beyond comprehension.

Go and look it up, boy!

You can't comprehend? Well, its really quite simple in that theirs no good answer. Now you won't loose any sleep over it. :ok:

SyllogismCheck
13th Jan 2009, 18:16
...theirs no good answer.. Whose answer is that then? :}

AMF
13th Jan 2009, 18:31
SyllogismCheck Quote:

Whose answer is that then?

All of there's.

merlinxx
13th Jan 2009, 20:16
All of there's:{:ugh: Explain in simple American English SVP

Chesty Morgan
13th Jan 2009, 20:18
I think AMF is pulling you're leg.

Nevermind it's still not a 'plane.:=

MD11Engineer
13th Jan 2009, 20:26
The fact is simply that, after they made the first few flights, the Wright brothers locked their plane into a shed and started fighting lawsuits against rivals real and imagined, mainly against Curtiss.
In meantime Europe, especially France got bitten by the aviation bug and kept on improving on the Wright designs.
Thus we have all the French words in aviation, like aileron, empenage, nacelle etc..

The result was that, when the US entered WW1, they didn't have any combat aircraft designed at home, instead they had to use SPADs from Bleriot's factory.

V2-OMG!
13th Jan 2009, 21:25
Um....last time I was walking through the hangar and someone was trying to fix something on a radial engine, they did not call it an "aeroplane, airplane" or "aircraft."

The preferred expression that day was "You Son'uva b!tch!" and/or
"You bloody ba$tard!"

Spodman
13th Jan 2009, 23:19
When I hear somebody refer to an "aeroplane" I get an image of somebody about 5 in short trousers. When I hear "airplane" the aforementioned 5 year old sounds as if he has just mastered the art of clapping, but will never progress to 'pat a cake'...

Its an aircraft.

potaytoe - you actually mean 'pertaita'
tomaytoe - you actually mean 'termarta'
shagwar - you actually mean 'Jag'
Aluminum - you actually mean 'beer can'

AMF
14th Jan 2009, 02:44
Chesty Morgan quote.. I think AMF is pulling you're leg.

:ok:

HarleyD quote..AMF is often wrong as well as different but hey

Definitely not wrong on airplanes, since everyone agrees they're a type of aircraft, not aerocraft, much like airships are never referred to as "aeroships". And if "aeroplanes" is indeed correct, then it would follow that the commercial operator of such would be known as an "aeroline" rather than an airline.

Given the propensity of Brits and Brit Lite nationalities (bandying about their quaint terms) represented on this fourm, although I may be outvoted here there have been many, many, MANY times the number of "airplanes" produced by many times the producers since the advent of powered flight than so-called "aeroplanes". We were never shackled to Frenchifying a word in an effort to make it sound more complicated or upper-crusty than it really is.

Oh well. C'est la vie.

llondel
14th Jan 2009, 05:48
'Airplane' is just another example of the american habit of bastardising the English language.

eg Aluminum, potaytoe, tomaytoe, shagwar etc.

Actually, if you research the first one, it was originally called aluminum, then changed by international agreement to have the -ium ending common to many other elements. However, the US later decided unilaterally to revert to the original spelling despite being party to the agreement.

They just can't cope with that many letters in a word, hence dropping the 'u' from many of them, and using -ite instead of -ight. Someone probably worked out how much would be saved in sign-writing by omitting excess letters.

AMF
14th Jan 2009, 09:01
llondel Quote:

They just can't cope with that many letters in a word, hence dropping the 'u' from many of them, and using -ite instead of -ight.

Here's the real reason, and while there are countless other sources and biographies of the man I'll use Wiki, just because some here are so bothered by it ;)

Noah Webster (October 16, 1758 – May 28, 1843) was an American lexicographer, textbook author, spelling reformer, word enthusiast, and editor. He has been called the “Father of American Scholarship and Education.” His “Blue-Backed Speller” books were used to teach spelling and reading to five generations of American children. In the United States, his name has become synonymous with dictionaries, especially the modern Merriam-Webster dictionary that was first published in 1828 as An American Dictionary of the English Language.

For decades, he was one of the most prolific authors in the new nation, publishing textbooks, political essays for his Federalist party, and newspaper articles at a remarkable rate (a modern bibliography of his published works required 655 pages).

His most important improvement, he claimed, was to rescue "our native tongue" from "the clamor of pedantry" that surrounded English grammar and pronunciation. He complained that the English language had been corrupted by the British aristocracy, which set its own standard for proper spelling and pronunciation. Webster rejected the notion that the study of Greek and Latin must precede the study of English grammar. The appropriate standard for the American language, argued Webster, was, "the same republican principles as American civil and ecclesiastical constitutions", which meant that the people-at-large must control the language; popular sovereignty in government must be accompanied by popular usage in language.

Slowly, he changed the spelling of words, such that they became 'Americanized'. He chose s over c in words like defense; he changed the re to er in words like center; he dropped one of the Ls in traveller; at first, he kept the u in words like colour or favour, but he dropped it in later editions. He also changed "tongue" to "tung."

In 1806, Webster published his first dictionary, A Compendious Dictionary of the English Language. The following year, at the age of 43, Webster began writing an expanded and comprehensive dictionary, An American Dictionary of the English Language, which would take twenty-seven years to complete. To supplement the documentation of the etymology of the words, Webster learned twenty-six languages, including Anglo-Saxon and Sanskrit. Webster hoped to standardize American speech, since Americans in different parts of the country spelled, pronounced, and used words differently.

Webster completed his dictionary during his year abroad in 1825 in Paris, France, and at the University of Cambridge. His book contained seventy thousand words, of which twelve thousands had never appeared in a published dictionary before. As a spelling reformer, Webster believed that English spelling rules were unnecessarily complex, so his dictionary introduced American English spellings, replacing "colour" with "color", substituting "wagon" for "waggon", and printing "center" instead of "centre". He also added American words, like "skunk" and "squash", that did not appear in British dictionaries. At the age of seventy, Webster published his dictionary in 1828.

"....rescue the English language from the clamor of pendantry".

I love that part :ok:

SyllogismCheck
14th Jan 2009, 09:46
So basically, English simplified for the American market?

Tung. I love that part. :}

Blacksheep
14th Jan 2009, 10:21
"....rescue the English language from the clamor of pendantry".

"To supplement the documentation of the etymology of the words, Webster learned twenty-six languages, including Anglo-Saxon and Sanskrit."
Sounds a lot like a major pedant to me: a really fine chap in fact. :ok:

Noah Webster (October 16, 1758 – May 28, 1843) I don't reckon he can be quoted as an authority on the spelling of aeroplane though. :hmm:

Boeing on the other hand can - and what they build are Airplanes - either Commercial or Military. (and helicopters, boats and hydroplanes...)

As for me, being a cunning artificer of the avionics persuasion, I refer to them correctly as Flying Machines (or occasionally, when they pose some difficulty, Infernal Contraptions)

Storminnorm
14th Jan 2009, 10:40
I knew that we Aristocrats would get the blame!
Damn peasants are ALWAYS looking for an excuse
to have a snipe at us.
Getting kicked out of the House of Lords was bad
enough, but now we get the blame for over-complicating
our OWN language. I blame the Magna Carta, things have
just steadily gone down-hill since then.
Should have broken King John's quill!!!!! :*

P.S. It should be Aircraft!

dakkg651
14th Jan 2009, 16:54
Aeroplane, airplane. I don't care any more.

I am still too upset about the unwarranted attack upon our tea drinking.

Blacksheep
16th Jan 2009, 11:02
That there Noah feller got me thinking.

Aero - having to do with or pertaining to the air.
Nautes - travel upon or across the sea.

An aeronaut is one who travels in or controls or operates a balloon or airship.

As evidence we have the Royal Aeronautical Society founded long before the first practical aeroplane took off, over by Kill Devil Hill.

So a pilot is not an aeronaut; he controls, operates or directs a plane that is propelled through the air.

An airplane. :ok:


(Still just a flying machine or infernal contraption though.) :oh:

Chesty Morgan
16th Jan 2009, 12:04
So a pilot is not an aeronaut; he controls, operates or directs a plane that is propelled through the air.

AEROplane:ugh::}

Arm out the window
16th Jan 2009, 23:54
You'd learn how airplanes fly by studying airdynamics, wouldn't you?

merlinxx
17th Jan 2009, 08:58
So how come then that our Dear Lady Aviators are known as Aviatrix ?

Arm out the window
17th Jan 2009, 10:33
Aviatrix is the singular, so I guess a bunch of female pilots would be aviatrices ??

And maybe if they do aerobatics (airbatics?) it would be 'turning trix'...

AMF
17th Jan 2009, 17:27
Blacksheep..
So a pilot is not an aeronaut; he controls, operates or directs a plane that is propelled through the air.

Well put Blacksheep, and cuts to the point. A pilot operates a thing...a plane (wing)....that planes through the air. A wing doesn't "plane through the aero".

With that settled, if we can just get our Anglo-Francophile cousins to spell "maneuver" correctly, we'd be making real progress.

Fantome
1st Feb 2009, 21:05
Naming of Parts

Today we have naming of parts. Yesterday,
We had daily cleaning. And tomorrow morning,
We shall have what to do after firing. But today,
Today we have naming of parts. Japonica
Glistens like coral in all of the neighboring gardens,
And today we have naming of parts.

This is the lower sling swivel. And this
Is the upper sling swivel, whose use you will see,
When you are given your slings. And this is the piling swivel,
Which in your case you have not got. The branches
Hold in the gardens their silent, eloquent gestures,
Which in our case we have not got.

This is the safety-catch, which is always released
With an easy flick of the thumb. And please do not let me
See anyone using his finger. You can do it quite easy
If you have any strength in your thumb. The blossoms
Are fragile and motionless, never letting anyone see
Any of them using their finger.

And this you can see is the bolt. The purpose of this
Is to open the breech, as you see. We can slide it
Rapidly backwards and forwards: we call this
Easing the spring. And rapidly backwards and forwards
The early bees are assaulting and fumbling the flowers:
They call it easing the Spring.

They call it easing the Spring: it is perfectly easy
If you have any strength in your thumb: like the bolt,
And the breech, and the cocking-piece, and the point of balance,
Which in our case we have not got; and the almond-blossom
Silent in all of the gardens and the bees going backwards and forwards,
For today we have naming of parts.

Henry Reed