What has he come to tell them??

[boristhemini]

The RAF chappy with the life jacket on, must have come on board with something special to say... lots of service brass listening intently to him. Thoughts......

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o133/boristhemini/DDaysevicebrass.jpg

[boristhemini]

Forgot to say, this is from a friends collection of pics, that belonged to his late grand father, that I'm trying to find out the history of.
I'm intrigued by this pic, purely because of the amount of services/nationalities involved.

[S'land]

Previous post was made under the influence of white wine, so deleted.

Is this photograph anything to do with the D-Day landings?

[boristhemini]

Well S'land, my friends great uncle served from 43-48 in europe then west africa and his grandfather from dec 44-48 in europe and india........ We really do not know what is going on here. Is it a published photo he had a copy of (was this an important moment in military history?) or one he took himself of a strange gathering. Puzzling.
Actually S'land your last (deleted) post was quite funny!!

[Blacksheep]

The brass may be interested, but all those guys leaning on the rail seem to be pre-occupied with something more important. The mail probably...

[boristhemini]

.....or sea sick!!

[Blacksheep]

The RN Big Brass appears to have his left arm in a sling, which might be a clue...

[Avitor]

He's come to tell them....If you are going in that wet stuff, you will need one of these, I have plenty for sale.

[windriver]

Pre D Day visit/briefing perhaps?

[Pom Pax]

Is not the aviator "brass" as well, consider his s.d. cap.

[MReyn24050]

The gentleman on the right of the photograph under the davit would appear to have RAF wings and judging by the board band on his epaulette right shoulder could possibly be an Air Commodore.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

"Now look here, chasps, unless you dig deeper in your pockets that damned Vulcan will never fly again".

[tubby linton]

The army in the picture appear to be predominately US.Do you have any more in this series,especially of the warship?

[boristhemini]

Fraid not tubs. We believe it was a pic taken by my friends late grandfather or his great uncle, who never spoke about their war days. We have other pictures, but none like this.

[tubby linton]

Boris,I have copied the picture and posted it on a maritime website,to try and get you a better answer.The legs at top left do not have bell bottoms so this may be a merchant ship.Which one is the person you know and which service were they in?
Have you tried the unithistories website to find out more about the officer?

[boristhemini]

Hi Tubs. My friends Grand Father was in the Army (GSC and RPC Dec 44-Apr48)) but his Great Uncle was in RAF (43-48) serving mainly in West africa/India but also European theatre. We believe one of them took the photo themselves, or this is a published photo that he was given, that meant something to him and therefore kept. My friends G-Uncle had a pic of some sunderlands in Bathurst in'45 that he kept that was a multi edition photo handed out to those who took part in the ceremony. Could this be similar??? I doubt it as it is too informal for a MOD picture. what site have you posted to BTW?
thanks everyone
Ivan

[boristhemini]

The legs at top left do not have bell bottoms so this may be a merchant ship. Hmmmm....Yes.... And surely a Naval vessel would not allow uncoiled/unstowed ropes like the ones the GI's are standing on?? Plus, there is a bench behind the Mae Wested RAF chap and the GI. Surely not a common installation on one of His Majesty's Finest?

[Union Jack]

My guess is that the photograph was almost certainly taken on board the fast minelayer HMS APOLLO, bringing General Eisenhower to Normandy on D-Day + 1, with other senior staff officers, including Admiral Sir Bertram Ramsay, the Flag Officer commanding the Allied Naval Expeditionary Force.

I almost forgot - What's the RAF brasshat with the lifejacket saying? - "I'm afraid we seem to have lost Ike"!

Jack

PS Actually, he was more probably saying "If there are no women and children on board, bags I first in the lifeboat"! Why? Because APOLLO ran aground that day and damaged her props, so the top team transferred to HMS UNDAUNTED - which could partly explain all the extra string messing up the upper scupper and the great interest being taken in what was going on in the background! :ok:

PPS The "un-bell bottomed" legs at the top of the picture almost certainly belong to the off-watch junior stoker who manages to get into almost every photograph of any big occasion in every ship, willy-nilly! In any case, most of the ship's company would have been wearing action working dress (No 8s) or, like our stoker friend, blue overalls.

[denis555]

If it is HMS Apollo then my guess this picture was taken 15 minutes after the grounding and all the brass are saying that time-honoured phrase...
"What are we going to do now?"

[wiggy]

.... There aren't many GI's in shot but it strikes me that none of them seem to be carrying the sort of kit you'd expect if they were about to disembark on D-Day ( weapons, packs, etc,) there's no sign of unit markings on helmets and non of them seem to be wearing any form of life preserver (even the primitive belt type life preserver used in the Normandy landings). The GI's all seem to be intenet on whatever is going on over the rail..

Add to that the distinctly non-military park bench that boris has pointed out and I wonder if this is a photograph taken on some sort of transport vessel arriving in port somewhere...either that or the RAF type has arrived alongside by Flying boat and that's what the G.I's are looking at.......

[Groundloop]

Certainly not HMS Apollo, not with lifeboat davits like that. More likely a merchant ship or converted merchant ship.

http://www.naval-history.net/Photo07mlApollo3NP.jpg

[forget]

You beat me to it Ground Loop. :ok: Ex crab myself but the life boat thing looks very 'civilian'.

[WHBM]

"Now then, chaps. Your seat belt is fastened ...... and unfastened ..... like this.....".

[MReyn24050]

Possibly one of the Victory ships with the boats lowered.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/sabamel/lanevictory2.jpg
However it is also interesting that "Gooseberry", the name given to the artificial harbor's sunken ship breakwater, was made up of old Victory ships and "rust buckets" left over from World War I, totaling 59 ships.

[sycamore]

`What is your name ?`
`Don`t tell him ,Pike !`
`Ah,Pike.your name will go in the book`...
`Stupid boy !`

The Air Commode,under the davit ,appears to have no left hand,or it`s in his pocket;right hand stuck in his jacket.

I think he`s come to collect the aircrew silk scarves the Navy brass pinched at the Dinner..

[Union Jack]

Certainly not HMS Apollo, not with lifeboat davits like that. More likely a merchant ship or converted merchant ship - Groundloop

You beat me to it Ground Loop. http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/thumbs.gif Ex crab myself but the life boat thing looks very 'civilian' - Forget

All right girls, you may not believe me, but why not take a look at another photograph, available from two interesting and authentic sources, showing a remarkably similar piece of the upper deck on board APOLLO, and oh my goodness, there's not a davit or lifeboat in sight, but there is a Carley float mounting:

http://tinyurl.com/98ktsa (http://tinyurl.com/98ktsa)

JIM BRYCE PH2 (http://tinyurl.com/7ub8jt)

A careful read of Mr Hoy's story also strongly implies that Boris's friend's photograph was probably taken after Generals Eisenhower and Montgomery had left APOLLO, in which case my initial caption for what the tame crab was saying, namely "I'm afraid we seem to have lost Ike", was curiously close to the mark. However, in view of Mr Hoy's narrative, I'd like to suggest that what he was really saying was "But surely at least one of you matelots must know the way back to Pompey?":)

Hope that all this helps you and your friend, Boris.

Jack


PS No need to apologise, G and F, just get some seatime in ....:ok:

[forget]

Hmmm, I wonder; could that lifeboat thing be what fish heads call a Carley float mounting. Ex crab myself. :8

[Union Jack]

Hmmm, I wonder; could that lifeboat thing be what fish heads call a Carley float mounting.

Whilst appreciating that you may not have read the previous posting fully, viz "....there's not a davit or lifeboat in sight, but there is a Carley float mounting", I can now see why your monniker is "Forget"!:rolleyes:

Jack

[forget]

:ugh::ugh::ugh: Union Jack, Despite your handle, are you American by chance? Humour (humor) and all that.

[Union Jack]

Crikey, Forget, I know I said no need to apologise - after all I was only trying to provide a comprehensive and accurate answer for Boris - but I equally didn't expect to be "wound up" in return! Of course, I now realise that you had read the previous post.

Jack (aka Jock)

PS Am I a spam? First and last words above should provide clues, assuming you remember you asked the question ....:D

[boristhemini]

Now Now!!!
Above the davit/carley mount, what is the cable?
Just doing some digging on the Apollo incident. If this is on the Apollo, either before Ike and Monty embarked or subsequently disembarked to the Undaunted, would that make the RN officers in the middle Capt Grindle and Vice Admiral Ramsay? (If only we could see the boss fellas cuff!) Would explain the GI's clamouring for a view of whatever was going on alongside.

[boristhemini]

Had a closer look at the picture. The benches seem to be a temporary fixture. They are attached to the hand rail by carabina type fasteners. Also, the deck is wooden. Would a ship of this age (only a few months old) have had an armoured deck, or as the Apollo was built for speed, did she indeed have a wooden deck? Maybe we need to turn this into the Professional Harbour Pilots Rumour Network? :}

[Union Jack]

Boris

Maybe we need to turn this into the Professional Harbour Pilots Rumour Network? http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/badteeth.gif

Er, yes or probably best to go to Rum Ration if you have any more questions!

However, since you asked, I sadly suspect that the Flag Officer in the original photo is not Admiral Ramsay for several reasons: Wiki photo shows him with five rows of medal ribbons, rather than three, and his appearance (and the angle of his cap!) are completely different - see also Royal Navy (RN) Officers 1939-1945 - R (http://tinyurl.com/ayk78q) for more photos. A guess, no more, is that it is Admiral Maurice Mansergh, who was Admiral Ramsay's Chief of Staff (and the cap angle looks more likely relative to his picture in the NPG), whilst the Captain could indeed be Captain Grindle, since I do see a ressemblance to his two sons.

So far as the deck is concerned, the photo at Ship Class: HMS Abdiel (http://tinyurl.com/8jovd9) tends to confirm that she had a certain amount of wooden decking, almost certainly further aft, as in the D-Day photos. The cable is probably the release gear for whatever was mounted there.

The bench was almost certainly a bit of "sparkle" for the big occasion, or a bit of a laugh on someone's part (as in "One of our Pompey park benches is missing"), or even a combination of both.:)

Jack

PS To keep within PPRuNe, I am still interested in who the crab and the king crab may have been and, my last shot at what was being said - "I'm so sorry, Sir, only the Spams have enough of these new-fangled helicopters"!:ok:

[Groundloop]

PS No need to apologise, G and F, just get some seatime in ..

I have had a fair bit of seatime and undertaken plenty of lifeboat drills and launched lifeboats so I know a gravity davit when I see one. The photograph clearly shows a sloping track down which the cradle holding the lifeboat/landing craft slides and then hinges outboard when it reaches the bottom of the track. The cable visible is part of this lowering mechanism.

The carley float mounting in the image linked to by Union Jack is a simple metal frame on which the float sat. There were no complicated lowering systems for the carleys, the ropes holding them were simply cut and they were thrown/slid over the side.

So, I say again it is NOT HMS Apollo.

[MReyn24050]

I have had a fair bit of seatime and undertaken plenty of lifeboat drills and launched lifeboats so I know a gravity davit when I see one. The photograph clearly shows a sloping track down which the cradle holding the lifeboat/landing craft slides and then hinges outboard when it reaches the bottom of the track. The cable visible is part of this lowering mechanism.
Which makes me think that it could be one of the Victory ships. I know this is only a photograph of a model but the davits are similar and also there is a hand rail.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/sabamel/fs_6846_s-victory_48.jpg

[boristhemini]

Original post now edited to show higher quality scan.

[tubby linton]

Boris,I posted the picture here:
Odd gathering - World Naval Ships Forums (http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?p=32335#post32335)

One of the respondents served on Apollo and can definitely say it is not her!

[Union Jack]

One of the respondents served on Apollo and can definitely say it is not her!

Good thinking, Tubs, and of course I am perfectly happy to be corrected, but I would much prefer it to be by someone who knows for certain what the ship in the photograph actually is, or who, like Groundloop, has specific reasons for refuting my guess - which is what it was, remember? - and also by someone who knows that we serve in and not on ships and call them her and not it. The respondent, I mean re the latter since I know you were quoting him, so I'm not poking charlie at you- particularly not at someone with such a distinguished submarine monniker!

Jack

PS Curiously enough, one of the best points made in the other forum relates to the screen door, which I had noted had a non-naval look about it, but didn't previously mention since I am aware that a number of ships, APOLLO included, had non-standard additions to their superstructures. So, back to helping Boris ....