The Wirraway in Lake Corangamite

[A37575]

About two years ago a Wirraway was found in Lake Corangamite. The water level of the lake had receded exposing the aircraft. Press photos revealed it was in reasonably good nick. The Wirra had ditched there in 1950.
After the initial media flurry over the find, the whole thing went quiet. Does anyone know if the Wirraway was salvaged and if so is it being restored and by whom.

[Chimbu chuckles]

I'd be fascinated to know too.

There is a picture in the 'more photos' thread, link here on bottom of page.

http://www.pprune.org/d-g-general-aviation-questions/238969-more-photos-197.html

[VH-XXX]

Yep, here is said pic.

It's been protected by the local council etc.

Any attempt to pilfer will result in significant penalties and the local house folk nearby will report you apparently.

The council wanted to dump sand / dirt over it to "protect" it, but the local aircraft experts informed them that this would crush it. Interesting thinking.

Looks like it will be there forever. It's got a fair "bend" in the middle of it.


http://users.netconnect.com.au/~njah1/crash.jpg

[Kulwin Park]

Soooo... Didn't the finder have rights to it??
Or wasn't there someone going to remove it for a display I thought??
It's strange that it would be left there, as when the water fills up again, it just becomes a danger for boats hitting their hulls on it maybe?? :suspect:

[VH-XXX]

I don't think there was a "finder" as such, but rather everyone has known it was there forever, it's just that people are finding out about it now.

Good point about a boating hazard although I believe there is a stake in the water nearby and it's at a remote end of the lake so unlikely to be a boating hazard. With the weather in Vic at the moment it will be a long time before the water covers her over again.

[Chimbu chuckles]

Looking at the twisted prop I'd say she hit the water with significant power being produced by the engine...maybe low flying practice...interesting that she is fitted with a gunsight too.

Vance Drummond rings a bell.

Edit;

Thought it rang a bell.

Drummond, Vance (1927 - 1967) Biographical Entry - Australian Dictionary of Biography Online (http://www.adb.online.anu.edu.au/biogs/A140042b.htm)

[Hempy]

The Wirra is serial A20-714. It was ditched in October 1950 whilst on a low level navigation exercise.Vance Drummond, the 23 year old pilot, who was on course at 4FTS (Point Cook), was unharmed and was rescued clinging to the cockpit.

Vance Drummond was a Kiwi, who enlisted in the RAAF in 1949, and served as a Sergeant (later Pilot Officer then Flying Officer) in Korea from 1951 to 1953. On 1 December 1951 he was shot down during aerial combat with a Chinese flying a MiG-15 near Pyongyang. When he reached the ground, he was taken prisoner by the North Koreans. Drummond was held at Camp 2 at Pinchon-ni, until he attempted to escape: he was caught and punished, and spent the rest of his war in captivity.

Before he was captured, Drummond was honoured with a US Air Medal. According to the citation, he “… distinguished himself by meritorious achievement while participating in aerial combat missions flying Meteor Mark 8 type aircraft against the enemy in North Korea from 1 September 1951 to 28 October 1951. Many times in the face of superior numbers of enemy high performance jet aircraft, his courage, aggressiveness and tactical skill contributed greatly to the successful completion of the assigned mission.”
He later served in the Vietnam War, flying as a Forward Air Controller with the US Air Force.

After returning to Australia, Drummond was acting C.O. of No. 3 Squadron when killed after his Mirage crashed into the sea near Newcastle on 17 May 1967 during "2 v 2" air combat manoeuvres. During his career he was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross, Air Force Cross, New Zealand War Service Medal, Korea Medal, United Nations Service Medal for Korea, Australian Vietnam Medal, United States Air Medal, South Vietnam Government Medal and South Vietnam Cross of Gallantry with silver star.

edit: beat me to it Chuckles

[QNIM]

Gday
She's still sitting there, dropped down to take a look, a couple of weeks ago.
Cheers Q

[MikeFors]

Hi all, where is the wreck actually located? From what I have read it is 400m from shore but cannot find on google earth..I'm keen to get some photo's of the wirraway from a distance (I'll be using a 400mm lens) it looks like it is still slightly submerged from the photos above.

Thanks,
Mike.

[M14_P]

Thanks Hempy,

Was waiting for someone informed to let us know of it's history. :)

cheers,

m14

[NOSIGN]

A37575 thanks for the info. I fly overhead most weeks and have never spotted the wreck. I'll take some pics next week and post them... if i can find the wreckage.

[VH-XXX]

Hi Mikefors,

As best as I can remember the wreck is in this position.

lake corangamite, victoria - Google Maps (http://maps.google.com.au/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=lake+corangamite,+victoria&sll=-38.164247,143.401405&sspn=0.422719,0.890579&g=lake+corangamite,+victoria&ie=UTF8&ll=-38.0873,143.427136&spn=0.026448,0.055661&t=h&z=15&iwloc=A) (this is a specific position I have linked to, not just of the lake)

Even if you zoom in you don't seem to be able to see it in the pic though and the water level looks low.

I recall there being a house nearby, hence the one to the west as I was thinking I couldn't go much lower as they might complain or take a photo or something.

[MikeFors]

thanks VH-XXX!! Looks like it isn't too far from the main road.

[VH-XXX]

Pm me with your email and I will put you in touch with a local pilot that might be able to help you with exact location if you can't find it. He knows local cpl who was talking with council about it.

[plucka]

Punch in S. 38 11 20, E. 143 21 03.

I bet that will get you pretty close.

A couple of local Ag. pilots rediscovered it when they were topdressing just next door.

Unfortunately it isnt that hard to get to and I have seen photos of people sitting in the pilots seat. Quite a few things have been taken, gunsight, instruments etc... I understand it to be heritage listed now but I know of no plans for it to be salvaged.

The DNRE offered the Bell 205 (i think it was) free of charge after the fire season to lift it out but no one seemed keen to do anything with it after that, so it still sits there. Must be corodeing(?) fairly quickly now that the air is to it. Lake Corangamite is very salty.
:ok:

[aseanaero]

I don't see why the local council wants it kept in the lake , it's not a war grave.

Auction it to the highest bidder.

[plucka]

VH-XXX you are a little too far north with your location, the co-ordinates of the wreck are in an earlier post of mine.

When the wreck was first rediscovered a few of us went out in a tinnie for a closer look. There was a representitive from point cook museum who joined us on the trip. He seemed quite excited about a salvage attempt as it remained in pretty good condition other than the broken engine mount. It then came back to us that the museum was interested but couldn't justify the expense as they already had a couple of Wirraway projects anyway.:ok:

[Worrals in the wilds]

I don't see why the local council wants it kept in the lake , it's not a war grave.

Dunno if it applies here, but the current PC point of view is that submerged wrecks are better left in situ, as the position of objects can have archeological significance. This has been a big point of contention in the wreck diving community as until recently the opinion was that it was better to salvage what could be salvaged and display it for posterity (or pinch what you could and display it in your house, depending on personal morals). Personally I don't see the point in leaving artifacts to rust and sink into the mire, but that's the current wreck ideology.

If the local council has sought advice from government marine archeologists, they have probably been told to leave the wreck as it is and discourage any salvage attempts.

[MikeFors]

Thanks for the additional info, heading down there in the warmer months to take some shots, I'll post them here.

[aseanaero]

If the local council has sought advice from government marine archeologists, they have probably been told to leave the wreck as it is and discourage any salvage attempts.

I get your point

If it was an old HQ Holden panel van or something sticking out of the water it would be pulled out by the council in a flash.

Oh hang on ... it's an original SANDMAN still with board racks and an 8 track , stopped in time from when some lads dumped it in the lake , better send the archeologists in :ok:

I'll have to grow a beard and buy a cardigan with shorts and long socks so I can understand better where the council are coming from.

If the council feel so strong about it , document it , build a nice little Wirraway picnic and BBQ area and let it be displayed as is in a little glass fronted shed on the picnic area

[Worrals in the wilds]

I agree with you. Of course it was just a guess and may have nothing to do with the Wirraway, I just thought it was worth mentioning as a possibility.

There is a discussion here (Australia's biggest diving forum), just to give an idea of the hotness of this issue at the moment. (While this is in reference to wrecks over 75 years old, the mindset applies to newer wrecks too).
Dive-Oz Discussion Forums - Historic Shipwrecks Act 1976 review (http://www.diveoz.com.au/discussion_forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=21878)
Government stupidity, over regulation and narrow mindedness is not limited to aviation.

[Paul O'Rourke]

Within the last month someone has applied to remove this aircraft. There is more detail via the 'Cobden aero club inc.' web presence. There is a 20 page document that explains the retrieval process. It would be good for those in the field to look at it and make comment. I am wondering why the expense and trouble. I had to chuckle at the applicant's street name.

[kaz3g]

It is an indictable offence to remove, damage, interfere with an historic wreck and the penalties are severe. In Victoria, the legislation is the Heritage Act.

The philosophy of leaving in situ has been around for many years and was formalised in Victoria with the then Historic Shipwrecks Act of 1984. The Commonwealth acted nearly 10 years before that.

Kaz

[500N]

Which as a diver I agree with. if it wasn't for the law, not much would be left on the sea bed.

[Paul O'Rourke]

Kaz3g

Heritage Victoria has approved removal and the RAAF has endorsed transfer of ownership. Ref page 6 and 7 in the link below.

Wirraway A20 - 714 Removal
(http://www.corangamite.vic.gov.au/images/documents/Planning/D%2013%2034565%20%20Application%20Planning%20Permit%20Salvag e%20and%20Removal%20of%20CAC%20Wirraway%20A20%20714%20Aircra ft%20PP2013%20110.pdf)

[VH-XXX]

Without knowing the individual or their history it does seem strange that the RAAF gave him ownership and all departments approved it to be restored and displayed at his house ?? What the?

[spinex]

I also don't know the detail of this one, but must say that I don't get the knee jerk reaction to private involvement in something like this. Someone has had to jump through umpteen different sets of hoops to get permission and is going to have to sink a large pile of $ into removing and restoring the wreck - provided the protections are in place to stop him immediately flogging it off at a profit overseas, why shouldn't it be private property? How do you think the majority of the restorations of Spitfires n Mustangs that we drool over at airshows overseas, are funded, it certainly isn't by museums.

Perhaps I've just got a jaundiced view from my recent dealings with the heritage mob regarding a country pub, but they really can come across as having their heads firmly wedged up the collective cloaca. It seemed to come as an awful shock to them that their regulations and pronouncements alone weren't going to keep a structure standing and in a state to be appreciated by current and future generations - it was going to take a lot of money and effort to restore something and the stark choice was between allowing some hidden (and removable) reinforcement or letting the whole lot fall over in the next storm. The sucking of teeth and quiet tut-tutting when it became evident that no-one was going to sink time and money into fixing up the rotten old pile, merely to look pretty and authentic was actually pretty funny in retrospect.

[Fris B. Fairing]

spinex

it certainly isn't by museums

Perhaps you should qualify that with your definition of a museum.

[VH-XXX]

Does anyone know if this guy has a museum at his house? That would make sense. If he doesn't and this is his first aircraft, you'd think it would be better off at the RAAF Museum for example where thousands of people will see it.

[kaz3g]

Paul said that Heritage Victoria had given permission for the removal of the wreck and the RAAF as owner had agreed to transfer ownership

I was the Legislation and Enforcement Officer at Heritage Victoria back in the mid-90's when the Historic Shipwrecks Act was superseded by the Heritage Act. The Act actually vests property in a declared wreck in the Crown in right of the State...another David and Goliath battle in the making? :O

In any event, it appears to be a pretty good resolution as the wreck will be properly preserved and displayed for the benefit of all interested persons. Rodney Knight can afford the expense and Heritage Vic undoubtedly can't as funding for the Maritime Unit has been savaged again (still).

Kaz

[spinex]

Quote:
it certainly isn't by museums
Perhaps you should qualify that with your definition of a museum.

Possibly. Most forum posts are by their very nature brief and some things need to be read into them - I don't mean the David Lowy / Kermit Weeks brand of museum. That is largely a side issue though, the main thrust of my post was there is a school of thought quite prevalent in heritage circles that items of historical significance should rather rot away to nothing in "public " hands, than pass into private ownership, no matter how well intentioned.

[Aussie Bob]

Some of you guys make me laugh. At what stage does rubbish become heritage? Is there a switch or does it evolve?

At the end of WW2 this thing was rubbish. As is a shipwreck when it happens.

Congratulations should go to the new owner for cleaning up a rotting mess of metal. If I dumped say a 206 (SIDS compliance uneconomical) into a lake how long would it take to become heritage?

[Engineer_aus]

Does anyone know if this guy has a museum at his house? That would make sense. If he doesn't and this is his first aircraft, you'd think it would be better off at the RAAF Museum for example where thousands of people will see it.

Do you know how many aircraft the RAAF museum has hidden away from public view and NO YOU CAN'T SEE IT!!!

Yes they are pretty rude when you ask them about "that" part of the collection.

[rattly_spats]

See Green light to remove submerged warplane - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-01-20/green-light-to-remove-submerged-warplane/5207874)

[emergency000]

Well I'm glad something will come of it. Might as well allow it to be restored for posterity than quietly rusting away to nothing. This story reminds me a bit of the B-24 Liberator that's being restored in Werribee. I've put in a few days work here and there with the guys down there and it's great fun for a young bloke like me to get my hands on a proper, radial-engine aircraft and see the ins and outs of it.
Makes me appreciate just what engineers/technicians/maintainers went through in 'those days'.

Cheers,
John