View Full Version : I canīt take no for an answer (merged)

10th Jan 2009, 01:27
Howdy Jetblasters. I've not ventured into here for quite a while and have one question that seems to remain unanswered.

Is the subject of Israel a completely taboo topic?

The reason I ask this is not to start a bitch fight or the usual political/religious tete-a-tete but purely to see where the line is drawn.

A thread was started on the mil forum by a user asking a fairly innocent question regarding a photo of a white phosphorous shell exploding above a Gaza town. He simply asked what it was and what it was for. He obviously thought that the mil forum was the best place to ask this question on this website. The thread came up with his answer but also lead to a fairly healthy (dont read too much into that meaning it turned into a bitch-fest) debate regarding the use of WP. A few posts mentioned the issue of the Geneva Convention and the use of WP. Again, a healthy and grown up discussion ensued. A few posts towards the end turned into a bit of a religious debate regarding the rights and wrongs of formalised religious organisations (mainly Christianity and Jehovahs Witnesses) but it was on the whole pretty grown up. The out come was, the thread got locked. Believe me, the thread didn't dip into the usual politico/religious shite fest that normally occurs.

What surprised me was the speed that the thread got locked with the explanation that the thread had gone 'off topic'. Having seen previous threads in the mil forum continue for page after page having gone totally off topic but not relating to the Israeli/Palestinian issue (many relating to Iraq/Afghanistan) and allowed to continue ad infinitum.

Can anyone clear up whether 'Israel' can even be mentioned? Even in a grown up, analytic manner concerning current military affairs?

PS The thread in its entirety has been deleted (having been edited and fiddled with).

PPS I've messaged the moderator in question but have had no response.

PPPS I appreciate I'll get a flurry of the usual replies due to the locality of this topic but there is no where else on the site that seems to be appropriate or have the potential responses.


10th Jan 2009, 02:32
There was a thread Gaza2 that was on JB for a few days -- then disappeared.

10th Jan 2009, 02:51
I believe that all political and religious threads are now persona non gratia. Not just Israel. I'm not sure what finally triggered it. Maybe the Obama election. Anyway I think it got too tiresome for the moderators to police it. So it was banned.

Personally I think it's no harm. People just couldn't behave themselves and the vitriol flowed like napalm. PPRuNe is not the only forum where this has happened. Several I visit have gone the same way or have banished debate on the twin evils of our day to specialised forums which are carefully controlled.

The extremists spoiled it for everyone.

10th Jan 2009, 03:09
The point I'm making is the thread did not get political or religious per say. As it happened, the couple of posts that went that way were edited by the mods whilst it was locked.

The transition went as follows;

Thread locked with a comment by PPrune Pop.

I started a thread asking why it was locked.

Original post had the couple of Jehovahs witness posts removed whilst still being locked.

My post was merged with original thread, again whilst still locked.

Thread binned completely.

Two messages sent to mod in question. No reply.

Anticipate being removed from site for being 'subversive'.

Can anyone confirm Israel exists as a country so therefore can be discussed??

10th Jan 2009, 03:21
Corsair, I believe you are spot on. There are a few caustic people who approach each social/political/global thread as if it's a free-for-all for their toxic posts. Easily identifiable....they rarely have anything pleasant to add--just the typical self-righteousness. And apparently banning them to the temporary exile teaches them nothing.

Sign of the times, sadly. I miss these threads. I learned view points I hadn't entertained, made a couple of good friends and I learned a good bit about myself. But the bullies ruined it for the rest of us.

I guess we can't expect the mods to babysit 24/7 for free.

Roger Sofarover
10th Jan 2009, 04:20
This is a genuine question.

Why is that we can continue to talk complete and utter shi*e on JB, yet when we are faced with a conflict that has global consequences , yet alone the Human catastrophe that is taking place, discussion is not permitted or it is heavily moderated?

I have been away for 5 days, came back on to check views on Israel/Gaza etc, to find all comments (that collectively must have taken Prune members many hours to assemble) had been wiped out/locked/disappeared.

Mods. is it really so wrong that JB'ers discuss a subject that has the potential to spark WW3?? I just do not get the censorship! It does not matter if people flame each other on here, there are many people dying in a conflict day by day,

Howard Hughes
10th Jan 2009, 04:23
If you must, you could always go here! (http://www.israelforum.com/) :hmm:

10th Jan 2009, 06:29
Because....JB is supposed to be about utter shite. It isn't meant to be a talkshop wherein the problems of the world are solved, other than to our own satisfaction.

Discussions in talkshops, the world over, up to and including the UN, have failed to solve the problems of the Middle East. This is........

Because....the Middle East is a place which inflames passions, both for those peoples who live there, and for those who don't but who observe it from the outside. Passion is the enemy of reason. Reason alone will solve the problems of the Middle East.

And the mods get tired of the endless, pointless, repetitive, counterproductive, circular discussions which concern the subject, beginning as they always do with someone's preconceptions, and ending as they always do with childish fighting and name-calling.

And none of it achieves a damned thing.

Nothing we say here, any of us, will ever make one iota of difference to the Middle East. This is an aviation discussion site. It is not the UN Security Council, or the US Congress, or the European Parliament, or the Knesset or the Palestinian Assembly or anywhere else like them.

The rights, the wrongs, the history, the potential escalations, the who and the why and the where of the situation in the Middle East, may well, and probably does, concern all of us, at some level.

But we cannot solve it here, and we have proven, time and again, that we cannot even discuss it in a civil manner. Such is perhaps the nature of the place.

Chill out, have a beer, and discuss aeroplanes instead.

10th Jan 2009, 07:11
And also because this conflict has been going on since before I was born and will still be going on long after I am dead because both sides are as bad as each other so I don't really care- and so do a lot of people. Now where did I put that beer I just opened???

10th Jan 2009, 07:21
Blue Wolf is on the money.:ok:

10th Jan 2009, 07:50
Roger Sofarover ....
Mods. is it really so wrong that JB'ers discuss a subject that has the potential to spark WW3??

I doubt it would spark WW3. At the very worst, merely a limited, regional exchange involving the same regional belligerents using old-fashioned A-bombs or chem weapons dropped from tactical aircraft or short-range missile rather than the thermonuclear, MIRVed "good stuff" special-deliveried via ICBM/SLBM between major powers. Most likely it'll be just more endemic, senseless slow-hemorraging that's been going on for decades and given an inordinate amount of press coverage to the detriment of other conflicts that are far more solveable if people were more aware.

Frankly, if human suffering is the impetus for discussion what's been occuring in Congo or Sudan for quite some time deserves more typespace than this latest completely predictable, inevitable dust-up in the ME.

10th Jan 2009, 08:33
Can anyone confirm Israel exists as a country so therefore can be discussed??
Your statement that Israel exists as a country is correct but it does not necessarily follow that its existence means it can be discussed. There are many places where that will be permissible, this is not one of them. Corsair explained the reasons but you then chose to ask the question in a different form, completely ignoring his/her answer. You have observed for yourself that threads on this subject have been locked and deleted and I think you really have enough evidence to go on that this subject is not welcome here.

Yet you continue to try and bring it up in spite of what you have seen for yourself and in spite of the information you have been given. What specific words will it take to get the message through to you?

10th Jan 2009, 08:38
Can anyone confirm Israel exists as a country so therefore can be discussed??
Welcome back to JB, wg13.

Political/religious/agony aunt threads are not tolerated and this is clearly stated in the rules. Not sure why you feel an explanation from a moderator is necessary?

Yes, Israel exists as a country but it does not follow that you are free to discuss it.



JB Mods
10th Jan 2009, 08:48
If the Mods feel that members lack the willingness to behave in an adult fashion, a politics free time-out for some or all political subjects will be implemented.