BAC/Bae 1-11

[KeMac]

At what point was the BAC 1-11 renamed Bae 1-11? Also what is the format
for company takeovers/mergers etc with regard to aircraft names? For instance what would be the correct name for a Douglas DC 3 these days?

[Jhieminga]

Just my humble opinion but I think that an aircraft is 'named' at certification and this will only change when a constructor changes names during the production process. In the case of the BAC 1-11, the company name changed to BAe upon the merger in 1978. BAe still tried to sell newer variants after 1978 and production didn't stop until 1982 but only 8 aircraft were produced and delivered after the merger so they probably didn't bother changing the name. By that time it was well known as a BAC aircraft so from a marketing standpoint you'd want to hang on to that.

[Daveg4otu]

For instance what would be the correct name for a Douglas DC 3 these days?

IMO the correct name will be as it always was - a Douglas DC-3.....

Let's face it - a Morris Mini produced in 1959(and I can still remember looking at this tiny car in a showroom window) is still a Morris Mini in spite of umpteen name changes by the company actually producing Minis over the next 50 years...can't see any reason why aircraft produced prior to a company amalgamation/merger/takeover should be any different.

[Davidsoffice]

In my view the foregoing arguments are logical. In reality though, the design authority for the aircraft is taken over by the new company and it is this company name that is used henceforth. Thus you will see reference to Boeing (Douglas) C-47s. It would be interesting to see a newly issued certificate of airworthiness for a US registered C-47, for example, to see what is actually quoted.
There are other types that have changed names, Britten-Norman to Pilatus Britten-Norman and back again! The HS146 to BAe then Avro RJ. A 146 is a 146!

[2 sheds]

Or, more precisely, "One Eleven".

2 s

[Kieron Kirk]

"Vesting Day" was 1st January 1978. BAC and HSA became BAe.

The correct name is "One Eleven".
Remember the days when the press always called the General Dynamics F-111 the F1-11?

Ciarain.

[KeMac]

Thanks for the replies everyone - I have to say I would rather use the original designation myself.

[ICT_SLB]

Keiron,
Just before the RAAF got their aardvarks, BAC delivered two 1-11 executive transports. Apparently there was a lot of confusion down under - and at least one cartoon that got into "Airframe", the BAC newspaper.

BTW if you keep up company changes, it's the Bombardier "Titanic" as they bought Shorts who were once in with Harland & Wolfe as Short Brothers & Harland.... Douglas Adams would be proud.

[WHBM]

As I understand it the DC3 is indeed known to the FAA now as the Boeing (Douglas) DC3. Boeing have the design authority for it now, which is what the FAA are interested in, and they choose to call it the (Douglas) DC3. And I presume the product support team are indeed in Seattle, now the Long Beach site is all apartment blocks and shopping malls.

As the type also seems to have had at least three formal model names as well (DC3, C47, and [at least in Britain] Dakota), there's probably some inconsistency in the official records there as well.

The DC-9 and its variants show another approach where, 15 years after McDonnell took over Douglas, the model name changed from DC-9-80 to MD-80, but I believe, someone can confirm, that on the airworthiness certificate it is still the DC-9-80.

Oh yes, and "One Eleven", rather than "1-11".

[Double Zero]

Yes, it's logical for people like us to think using a well-established aircraft designation would be sensible.

The factor you haven't included is when accountants who don't know an aeroplane from an Aardvark get involved, or indeed behind the scenes run companies like the modern BAe; then aircraft get renamed overnight, as they try to take the credit for other people's work.

One example being the 'Boeing Harrier ' !!!

No mention of McDonnel, let alone Hawker or even BAe...the only surprise is they didn't call it the 'Dream-Hoverer' or something...

[ZeBedie]

Then we have the EADS Bf109...

[Phileas Fogg]

So what is the 748? Is it an Avro, an HS or a BAe?

And how did BAe ever get away with renaming their 146 an Avro? It was never made by Avro, Avro made pretty aeroplanes :)

[dixi188]

I wonder if you are all aware where the name "One Eleven" came from.

The "One" is for the first commercial aircraft produced by British Aircraft Corporation.
The "Eleven" is for the 11th commercial type by vickers. ie. VC 11.

Although it was actually based on the Hunting 107.

[Fareastdriver]

is still a Morris Mini

No, it isn't. I had an Austin 7, it had a different grill.