JAA PPL(H) in US

[HUSKYdriver69]

hello everyone,

I would like to do PPL(H) in USA. I hold JAA CPL(A).
I will appreciate any info about schools, costs, etc.

thanks!

HUSKYdriver69

[206Fan]

Welcome to the forums husky.

Only one school you can go to, bristow academy in florida, all the info is on the website!

Bristow Academy formerly Helicopter Adventures Inc - Helicopter Flight Training (http://heli.com/)

Dave

[R44-pilot]

Or do an FAA PPL(H) and get your ticket changed to JAA over here.

Some say it's easy and cheaper... some say it's a headache, wouldnt know but I can suggest a good school in Floirda if you choose to do FAA then swap it over. (Englished owned school)

You will then have 2 licences and be able to SFH when visiting the States, just a thought.

[HUSKYdriver69]

thanks for answer!

I think doing JAA course in USA will be the best way to go.
I went through FAA CPL(A) conversion in Poland and it takes a lot of time and money!

Is PPL(H) course shorter for CPL(A) holder??

thanks again,

HUSKYdriver69

[R44-pilot]

Yeah belive it is, think it all depends on how many hours you have, check FCL on CAA website.

Thought there was a massive waiting list at Bristows? or was that just for cpl(h).....

[HUSKYdriver69]

I have 600+ on airplanes, JAA and FAA CPL(A) with ME and IR.
I planned to go to States in February.
Did You hear about U.K. Flight Training?

thanks!

[R44-pilot]

"Did You hear about U.K. Flight Training?"

UK flight training? you've lost me mate.

You've certainly got some time down then, like I said check CAA site and see what it says, there's defiently some hours credited to you, don't know about the ground exams, you'll have to do at least principles of helicopter flight, just get the wagtendonk book for that. :ok:

[206Fan]

Did You hear about U.K. Flight Training?

Hes refering to the U.K Flight training in california which state on their website that they carry out JAA courses. Its all aload of BS, nothing more than FAA training so stay clear of them!

Husky i heard rumours bristow are full up until summer of this year (09) but don't quote me on that, thou i wouldn't be surprised if their booked up for the whole year!

[Phil77]

I second the FAA PPL idea. You don't necessarily need a conversion, probably just a validation of the FAA ticket as long as it's just a private pilot license (that at least is possible in the JAA member germany - similar regs in the UK I presume).

Is PPL(H) course shorter for CPL(A) holder??

Yes. Since you already hold a FAA license, I'm sure you can find out yourself why (read the FAR's part 61 - Electronic Code of Federal Regulations: (http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?&c=ecfr&tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title14/14tab_02.tpl))

(Oh, btw: have you seen the very first thread on rotorheads? you will find that all the answers to your questions have been posted there before! :ok:)

[RMK]

I hold both FAA & JAA PPL(H) and did training on both sides. I'd agree with the post re Bristow being best for JAA in US. However, it depends what you are looking for. I did my initial FAA training training in FLA and when I flew into Bristow found it like flying into a hornets’ nest. My school had 3 helicopters, whereas Bristow had 22 in the air upon my arrival. It's very professional, but not if you are looking for a more relaxing environment where you can take breaks between flights at a picnic table under a palm tree. Several of the heli schools in West Palm Beach (such as Cloud9) are British owned and worth a look.

Personally, I'd suggest the FAA route for initial training and then come back to the UK and do an examination flight for your JAA.

Note to be careful that any part of the FAA training meets/exceeds the JAA requirements (such as differing x-country etc). Also, whereas the FAA also has the 5hr conversion training for differing types (ie going from R22 to R44), they do not have type ratings (not for smaller helis anyhow) and the JAA will only acknowledge the conversion training if done at a JAA accredited TRTO (Type Rating Training Organisation) for which most US schools will reply with “what’s that ?” if you ask.

[206Fan]

Several of the heli schools in West Palm Beach (such as Cloud9) are British owned and worth a look.


Indeed, i was at cloud9, excellent school.:ok:

[Gordy]

RMK

Also, whereas the FAA also has the 5hr conversion training for differing types

What are you talking about--no such thing. Unless of course you are talking about the 5 hour PIC requirement in order to instruct for the purposes of a certificate or rating. FAR 61.195 (f)

"(f) Training received in a multiengine airplane, a helicopter, or a powered-lift. A flight instructor may not give training required for the issuance of a certificate or rating in a multiengine airplane, a helicopter, or a powered-lift unless that flight instructor has at least 5 flight hours of pilot-in-command time in the specific make and model of multiengine airplane, helicopter, or powered-lift, as appropriate."

Here (http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=16e9fad324292fddea7cdb29eb2fd0eb&rgn=div8&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.1.2.8.1.8&idno=14)

[R44-pilot]

Cloud 9, yep I'll second that, it was the one I was talking about at the top.

I was there in October, great place, big enough to cope small enough to care and all that....

Geoff Painter is the owner, and his wife Debbie.

Definety worth contacting them, my most memorable flight was with Geoff...... loved it! :ok:

[HUSKYdriver69]

Thanks!I got info from Cloud9. With FAA CPL(A) I only need to do 30hrs in heli. Price seems to be good also. This way I will need to convert it to JAA licence in Europe. HUSKYdriver69

[puppetraffles]

Husy - get in touch with Bill at Fly-in Spain - number on their website. He's a top bloke years of experience and used to operate the helis out of Biggin... good weather and save the treck and visa issues with the States.... and he'll put you in a real helicopter not an R22! (Please, no retorts) I was there for a while at end of last year and met a couple of very happy students.

Website is a bit of a shambles - don't pay attention to that!

oh look - I've found the number! Tel.: 0034 699 775 501 + 0034 696 967 630

...very helpful considering this is my first post.

best.

[HUSKYdriver69]

Hello,

I called Polish CAA today about license convertion. They said that it all depends on FTO in Poland. FTO will decide if I need more trainig. If not only written exams and flying exam.
Does anybody know how it looks like in other EU countries?

Becouse of my CPL(A) my FAA PPL(H) trainig will only take 30 hrs. And this can lead to some problems with converting it, I think.

HUSKYdriver69

[Phil77]

...again: do you really need to convert it, or can you just have it validated (recognized) and you fly on the basis of the foreign (US) license? Since you know your way around european airspace and such, it would be much cheaper!?

Here is the content of the form General Recognition of "Foreign Certificates or Licenses" by the Luftfahrtbundesamt (german CAA) - look at paragraph no 4.
Maybe you can find something similar in Poland?

http://www.lba.de/cln_009/nn_69148/SharedDocs/download/L/L1/L1__NFL4-95-engl,templateId=raw,property=publicationFile.pdf/L1_NFL4-95-engl.pdf


General Recognition of Foreign
Certificates or Licences
(NfL II - 4/95)

1. Certificates or Licences issued by an EG Member State
Every holder of a private pilot's Iicence issued by an EG member state may pilot aircraft
registered in the Federal Republic of Germany. The recognition is restricted to the rights of
a private pilot's Iicence, aircraft endorsed thereon with a certificate for a minimum flight crew
consisting of one pilot, and to VFR flights by day.
The recognition is informal and not limited in time. At present - in addition to Germany - the
following states are members of the EG:
Austria Italy
Belgium Luxemburg
Denmark Netherlands
Finland Portugal
France Sweden
Greece Spain
Ireland United Kingdom
Note
The recognition does not include Iicences for pilots of sports aircraft (see GEN 2-5).


2. Glider Pilots' Licences
Valid glider piIots Iicences issued in accordance with the ICAO Standards, the holders of
which can prove at least 30 hours overall glider flight experience, are recognized for non-
commercial and non-professional activities with gliders registered in the Federal Republic of
Germany, pursuant to § 28 para 2 LuftVZO.
The recognition is informal and not limited in time and does not include flight instructor
qualifications.


3. Certificates or Licences lssued by Switzerland

3.1 The reciprocal General Recognition comprises valid
Swiss licences for
- private pilots
- private helicopter pilots
- powered glider pilots
- glider pilots *
- balloon pilots *
German licences for
- private pilots
- private helicopter pilots
- powered glider piIots
- glider pilots
- free balloon pilots

3.2 The recognition is informal and not limited in time; it extends only to the use of
aircraft registered in Switzerland or the Federal Republic of Germany and is limited to flights
over the territories of these both states.

3.3 The General Recognition does not include
- licences for type familiarization training and flight instructor licences,
- Swiss licences the holders of which have their permanent residence in the Federal
Republic of Germany or Austria,
- German licences the holders of which have their permanent residence in
Switzerland.
Note
For flights with aircraft registered in the Federal Republic of Germany over the territories of
the Federal Republic of Germany, holders of Swiss glider pilot Iicences or free balloon pilot
licences, unless also in possession of a valid pilot's licence for powered aircraft, shall carry
a medical certification issued within the previous two years by a medical expert or a
designated medical examiner.
Holders of Swiss glider pilot licences or free balloon licences are permitted to perform
occasional flights, e. g. enroute flights, competition flights, training flights in a training camp
etc., with gliders or balloons registered in Switzerland, without proof of medical fitness
required according to Annex 1 of the Gonvention on International Civil Aviation.


4. Certificates and licences to which the regulations under item 1 - 3 do not apply,
are recognized, under further notice, for non-commercial and non-professional activities as
an airman as follows:

4.1 The General Recognition covers licences for
- aeroplane pilots,
- helicopter pilots,
- piIots of powered gliders,
- free balloon pilots,
the holders of which
- do not have German nationality
- have their permanent residence in a foreign country and stay in the Federal Republic
of Germany only temporarily, however, for not more than six months.

4.2 The foreign licence shall be issued by an
ICAQ contracting state in accordance with the ICAO Standards and shall be valid.

4.3 Applicants shall submit or furnish proof to the competent aeronautical authority
(depending on their temporary domicile in the Federal Republic of Germany) or to
the local Luftaufsichtsstelle authorized by that authority of:
a) the foreign licence;
b) validity of the licence if it is proven by a special document and not entered into the
licence itself under IX (e.g. USA : Medical Certificate
Canada: Licence Renewal Certificate);
c) - as a free balloon pilot not less than two flights,
- as a pilot of other aircraft not less than three take-offs and three landings with the
type of aircraft concerned
within the last 90 days before filing an application.

4.4 The recognition of pilots' and helicopter pilots' licences is restricted to aeroplanes
and helicopters up to 2000 kg with a certificate for a minimum flight crew consisting
of one pilot, as well as for VFR flights by day.

4.5 The recognition of licences for pilots of powered gliders extends to the take-off
methods endorsed en the licence, for which the applicant has been trained or which
are proved pursuant to para 4.3 sub-par5 c).

4.6 If the above-stated requirements are fulfilled, the applicant will be granted a
certificate of recognition limited to the respective period of validity of the foreign
licence, however, to not mere than six months. A renewal of the General
Recognition is possible 12 months at the earliest after issuance of the previous
certificate of recognition.
A duplicate of the certificate issued shall be sent by the aeronautical authority concerned or
the Luftaufsichtsstelle to the Luftfahrt-Bundesamt in each case. In cases of doubt, a
decision shall be obtained from the Luftfahrt-Bundesamt before issuance of the certificate.
Issuance of the certificate of recognition is subject to a charge pursuant to section IV No. 9
of the table of charges published in the "Kostenverordnung der Luftfahrtverwaltung".
The airmen shall carry the certificate of recognition with their licence when on duty and
present it on request.
For holders of foreign airmen's licences who do not fulfil the requirements for a General
Recognition or intend to perform ratings not covered by the General Recognition. there is
the possibility of applying to the Luftfahrt-Bundesamt, Postfach 3054, 38020 Braunschweig,
for ,,Individual Recognition".

[HUSKYdriver69]

I decided to go to Cloud 9. Just buy tickets and I am ready to go. Does anyboby have advice about that place? where to stay, how to travel around city, whats is wort seeing there?

thanks!

Husky

[R44-pilot]

Hey Husky,

I was with Cloud 9 in October, There's plenty to do, nothings very far and all though the speed limits there seem quite slow compared to the UK all the roads are as straight as a ruler! so doesnt take long to get anywhere.

If your there for 2-3 weeks you could drive to Miami, or fly! wont take long either way.

Speak to Geoff about Bella Vista villas. Lovely villas, real close to the sea and about 25 mins drive from North County Genral Aviation Airport. They were where we stopped and all through Geoff and Cloud 9, maybe his business partners....

Speaking of which, it is a FANTASTIC airport and puts most of the UK airfields to shame :uhoh:..... although missing a restaurant (great sandwich place on the way though)

You'll be plenty busy enough with the flying though to be fair, and you'll just have the best time, 500 ft rule????? LOL, you'll see :ok:

The Everclades are impresive to, you'll do some flying around there, go croc chasing! I've got a pic and some video of us hovering about 3-4 foot away from some crocs! There's also a type of ditch or dyke that runs right next to the runway, this houses some crocs too. I didnt believe them until we saw one sun bathing on the runway!

Also, I remember that most if not all of the Heli's are without GPS.... so it will sharpen anyones Nav up again as its like here in Lincolnshire, flat as a pancake!

You really will have a laugh out there mate, and the guys and gals at Cloud 9 are great.

Hope this helps.:ok:

[R44-pilot]

Oh and get a car!!!! we we're told we didnt really need one, but thankfully one of the lads with us hired one (he'd been before and knew you needed one!)

I flew from Manchester to Philly and onto West Palm Beach Int. (definetly the best option)

Some went Manchester to Philly then on to Miami, they had an hours+ drive from Miami, after all the travelling it was nice that we were only 10-15mins from Bella Vista after leaving West Palm Beach Int. Although there was a funny incident on leaving the airport which ended up with us sat in the car park for 45 mins with the Police..... thats another story though.....:ugh::ugh:

So if I was you, try and get a flight that lands at West Palm Beach.

[HUSKYdriver69]

I have flight to JFK and then straight to Palm Beach. The cheapes cost of renting car is around 500 bucks for 3 weeks. Maybe I will share costs with somebody there. Are ther scooters, motorcycles or buses?

How about booking heli every day? are helis available with no problem? What to pay attention first?

I asked Geoff to book San Merano accomodation but will ask about Bella Vista villas also...

What is the best method of payment?

If You have some nice pics please send me... mstrama (at) wp.pl

thanks!:)

Husky

[R44-pilot]

Booking heli's? you should have all your 30hrs+ slots booked by Cloud 9 mate. (if your doing it in one bash)

There are buses, but I didnt see many and didnt use any tbo.

Taxi's aint cheap either, after watching all these, movies, programs etc around new york and america as a whole, I pressumed they were really cheap as there everywhere... not the case :=

I would always use a credit card where possible in anything like this, you get some sort of protection for if anything goes t*ts up then......

"what to pay attention first" whats that mean mate? :confused:

As for car prices always haggle!!! there are enough hire companys to choose from and they know it, my mate got his from the one at Palm Beach Int AP, the price started at $30 per day but was brought down to $15, dont ask them how much, tell them thats what you want to pay...:cool:

PM, sent anyway.... :ok:

[Pjbracer1]

Hi All

Just thought I would pop a post in here having just obtained my FAA Lic with Cloud 9 t North County Palm Beach Florida.

I spoke to Geoff Painter the owner on many occasions before taking the plunge and he was very helpful.

I was leanring fixed wing in the UK and had about 60 hrs but weeather and work kept getting in the way and Helis wear always my goal so I booked a trial flight whilst in Vegas over Christmas and got on ok so I booked up with them.

4 weeks with them from April 2011 to May 2011 and I allowed for 60 hrs total just in case!
Training started the day after arrival and I must admit it took me a while to detrain some of my fixed wing habits but over the course of the the training I got 61hrs in and got my 5hr dual on the R44 ready for back in the UK.

The only thing I didnt allow for was the stress of trying to cram it all in, in 4 weeks!

The Airfield they operate from North Palm beach County Airport is great, the weahter was good most of the time but the wind gets up in the afternoon as it is Florida! So anyone that says its fair weather flying is wrong there is always a gust to keep you on your toes!

There is nothing better than flying a 44 low over the beach with the people below waving at you!

Geoff is great and I dont think there is anyhting he cant do with a 22 or 44!

I highly recommend them. I am back in the UK now and gonna study the commercial exams and then once I have passed them I will be back out there to do the hours building, IR and CFI hopefully.

My suggestions would be to get as much study in as possible beofre you go as that will give you more time to get the basics in and get a copy of the Rotorcraft Flying Handbook (faa-h-8083-21.pdf) and there are variuos software packeges outhere to get practicing for the exams Dauntless are the ones I used and it worked well.

Happy hovering!

Paul