Passenger offloaded for smoking in lavatory before take off?

[Hodd]

Greetings, I'm not a smoker and certainly don't condone methods of "lavatory smoking" - as an engineer I can appreciate the dangers and possible consequences. I'm just curious about an incident I saw when boarding an LTU flight at Bangkok recently. A passenger was being led out, i.e. not dragged, whilst pleading that she was "not smoking now".

She'd obviously been caught red-handed. What would have happened next? Would she not be allowed back on the flight? Fined? Banned?

[Dogs_ears_up]

........Shot?

[Abusing_the_sky]

Charged? Yes, if the Police there were doing their jobs properly (trust me, there's police in some apt's that don't give a to$$)
Banned? Definitely!!!!
Fined? I bloody hope so. If you do the crime, serve/pay the time.

Pax smoking ANYWHERE near an a/c are a no no. We should have harsher punishments for that. Waaaaaaaay harsher.


Rgds,
ATS

[Leito]

I totally agree with the "offloading part", sooner or later it was going to be a headache to the crew to handle this customer at 39000 feet, also that shows the rest of the customers that LTU takes this things seriously and will think twice before smoking on board.

Hats off to the crew !!!!

[flyblue]

Had the same case some time ago. We offloaded the passenger for not complying with safety rules. If someone gives a clear demonstration that he is not going to follow the rules, you know that you have a potential problem on board, and it is wise to offload him.
n our case, we refused the pax on our flight, and the Captain on the next flight would have been informed of the reason why the pax had been offloaded. Then it would be up to the Captain to accept the pax on the flight or not given the precedent.

[angels]

As a smoker myself I completely agree with the action of the crew.

Not only is it a potential hazard, but the smell of smoke makes smokers want a fag even more!

If a miscreant isn't made an example of you could get a queue of people waiting for a fag in the loo.

[whoseroundisit]

Quote;-
Charged? Yes, if the Police there were doing their jobs properly (trust me, there's police in some apt's that don't give a to$$)

The problem from my point of view [as an airport safety official] is that airlines seldom want to press charges as it would mean cabin crew needing to give written statements to the police and in many cases, having to give evidence in court.
Very often flight and cabin crew want the pax thrown to the wolves until it is explained to them that the Law has certain requirements such as witnesses and statements etc. Then there's a sudden change of heart, possibly due to turnaround times, crew not being based in the destination town, etc.
In my airport, when word comes through of an inbound flight with an offending pax, be it smoking, drunkeness, theft, assault etc, the crew will be asked if a prosecution is THEIR preffered course of action, then arrests, statements etc will follow.
If the crew do not have an interest in punising the offender, then the plane is met by 1 or 2 officers, who cannot take any action against the pax, and they will just escort the person off the plane.

[amber 1]

........Shot?
Pax smoking ANYWHERE near an a/c are a no no. We should have harsher punishments for that. Waaaaaaaay harsher.

Hung, drawn and quartered first?
Then shot?

[Mikehotel152]

Presumably the pax missing the flight is punishment enough anyway?

[6chimes]

You forget that not so long a go pax could smoke on an a/c. Now it is forbidden and rightly so, but you can't go around treating people as if they have committed an offence worthy of a lifetime of consequences, because they did something that once was allowed.

I am quite sure that 99.9999% of pax know that is illegal to smoke on an a/c, yet for some reason people still try to get away with it. Sometimes there is a reason why a passenger gets a little clouded in their judgement whilst trying to satisfy their craving. Of course that does not make it acceptable, but if you want the public to have some respect for our profession and view us as the safety specialists, fire fighters, doctors, police that so often fill these boards then we must be seen to treat situations as adults and not simply stamping our feet like children when someone contravenes a rule. Remember that all the other pax are watching.

A little restraint goes a long way and an approach to any situation on board that is dealt with from that perspective will result in a better outcome. If your 'hang 'em, shoot 'em' attitude is essentially how you approach any pax who are contravening the rules, you will end up looking silly and quite possibly lose their respect. You may need that further on in the flight for something far more serious . . . God forbid.

Maybe a light flogging would be more suitable :ok:

6

[Abusing_the_sky]

6, i understand and accept your opinion; but i will stick with "hang 'em, shot 'em".

I too am a smoker (bad bad habit, but that's another story). When i fly, i never crave, i don't go "bananas" if i don't have my portion of nicotine. I know it's against the law and if i have to obey the law, the pax have to do it too. And i fly 5 days a week, operating from 2 to 6 sectors daily, or a long and tiring, let's say TFS and back. The pax flies let's say for 2 hrs, he/she gets off, out of the airport, and has a cigarette. Nicotine rush kicks in, pax a happy bunny and not having to pay £1000 fine if he/she decided to smoke in the a/c.

My "hang 'em, shot 'em" attitude will never be seen by pax. It's all in the back of my mind, whilst dealing with the situation accordingly; i never panic, but my immediate thought is what did they do with the cigarette butt. Personally i don't shout, i don't threaten, i simply explain that we know that they've been smoking, it is against the law, and the consequences are such and such and such;isn't that what we're suppose to do?
I know everyone else is watching, which is a great thing because that's how what happened spreads around. Husband goes home and tells wife he was delayed because they caught someone smoking. Wife goes to work and tells her office colleague why husband was late last night. Colleague goes home and tells her sister, who tells her boyfriend and so on. Word spreads around and lesson is maybe learned.

It can't be a rule for some and another for the rest. It will happen again, I'm sure, and more people will be arrested, charged and fined.
Maybe airlines should come up with a(nother) solution to reinforce the "no smoking" issue; since i am not management and i don't really have a say in the operation, i will stick to off loading and arresting until people get the point;


Rgds,
ATS

[hval]

ATS,

Jolly interesting response.

Am genuinely curious about your response re pax smoking near aircraft. You seem totally anti people smoking next to aircraft. Is this because you are anti smoking (health reasons etc - and I notice you smoke yourself), or because you perceive smoking as a hazard for the aircraft?

Hilsener,

Hval

[Abusing_the_sky]

hval,

I perceive smoking near an a/c as a hazard. I know the fuel won't ignite, i know it's not that big of a danger smoking under the wing; but i tend to think ahead: the ciggie is blown by wind into FOD on the ramp. Fire starts. Goes to the baggage on baggage trucks. Spreads to the works area by gate 10, where several shops have electric connections to main power box. Spreads further in the terminal building.... and so on.


Fire is a nasty hazard, and one little cigarette butt could be the cause of it.
Just my opinion, of course.

Rgds,
ATS

[LH2]

You are a disgrace to Ailine [sic] Pilots.

Well, that's open to discussion. Personally, I think the crash axe should see use more often. I also think there should be two of them in the cockpit--the first officer is also part of the crew, you know :{

I am, however, against the hanging, drawing and quartering part, as I believe the horses would pose too much of a risk to nearby aircraft.

All in my humble and much restrained opinion, of course. :E

[DivingDiva]

You forget that not so long a go pax could smoke on an a/c.

Racism, Slavery, Discrimination etc etc - all these never use to be illegal...do we accept them in our society now?

Over the Christmas period I think at least half my flights we had people having a sneaky cigarette in the toilets. We never caught who it was on any of the occasions (unfortunately) as I am for the hung, drawn & quartered approach. I have better things to do with my time that rummage through toilet bins and other horrid places looking for a butt just in case....

At the end of the day, we can do as many toilet checks as physically possible but if that cigarette catches light, that one person has put hundreds of peoples lives at risk.... to me thats potential manslaughter. Yes, I know this is extremist, but if that fire were to spread... I needn't say the rest.

Thanks you & good night!!! ;)

[Storminnorm]

Gosh! I'm fagged out after all that!

[Tony Flynn]

'Have you ever heard the saying "Don't bite the hand that feeds you..." If not, then I would watch your back, or stomach if that is your attitude towards Cabin Crew'

AMS-LHR, you are a disgrace to your profession.

[tomkins]

Quite agree;Would suggest you go and get a bit of life experience before you chance another battle with someone who has the experience of Deputy Dawg,:ouch: be he flight crew or other.
experience=knowledge

[tomkins]

I would like to put the question to you!Why was smoking orriginally banned on planes,until some years ago it was permitted as it was in pubs and on trains,but since the elf and safety crew and passive smoking bandwagon have reared thier ugly heads it has been banned in all public places not because it is a fire risk,but to create a cleaner living environment.people did it before and I am not aware of many cigarettes causing planes to crash.
Obviously we all (most) appreciate a cabin that dosnt stink of cigarettes,and I am in no way condonning people who break the no smoking rule,however lets try and put it all into proportion.A crafty fag merits a repremand but hanging drawing and quartering is way over the top.
I know of crew who have had a crafty smoke in the flight deck with the flight crew half way across the atlantic some time after the ban was introduced.

[DX Wombat]

My "hang 'em, shot 'em" attitude will never be seen by pax.Don't bank on it. :E When I fly anywhere on a commercial flight I am a passenger. :)
How do you know that someone who sneaks off to break the No Smoking rule once isn't going to do it again later in the flight with possible disastrous consequences? These days there is a plethora of anti-smoking medication available and it shouldn't be beyond the capability of someone with normal intelligence to obtain some prior to the flight.

[13 please]

It's actually more of a safety issue, now than before becuase people try to do it on the sly, eg in the toilets, and try tricks like bunging up the smoke alarm with toilet paper, and not neccessarily remembering to take it off.

I'm a smoker, if I can't smoke on board, nobody can. No excuses.

[Breeza]

I think everyone raises relevant points, however, I think it is important that Flight crew respect and back up cabin crew all the way. Cabin Crew are those that have to deal with these people for the entire flight not the pilots.

As someone that flies regularily anyone that does anything that risks mine or pax safety or their comfort, as far as I'm concerned, should be offloaded. I have even heard of a case where a pax didn't even make it onto the a/c as he was smoking while walking across the tarmac to the a/c.

These precautions are put into place for a reason, for years we have seen the airline industry learn from it's mistakes and I firmly believe that prevention is much better than a raging toilet fire at 35,000ft which, mind you, the CC have to deal with.

If we let ppl get away with this behaviour it only encourages further incidents. I think offloading pax probably is punishment enough. I understand that laying charges ect prob aren't practical. BUT I would presume and expect that in the case of pax being offloaded an incident report will be completed and in the case of repreat offenders the matter could and should be taken much further.

[tart1]

until some years ago it was permitted

... but when smoking was allowed, it was never permitted in the toilets as it was seen as a fire hazard, even back then in the dark ages. :hmm:

[The Real Slim Shady]

Ah the Dark Ages.

When you could smoke cigarettes but not cigars or pipes.

[denis555]

Smoking thread?

Smoke in bed?

11 hour flight with the back of the plane like a smokey mine shaft?

Distant memories now, whatever the rights or wrongs....