One for pilots and PAX - turbulence

[TeddyRuxpin]

Have you ever been in turbulence which made you afraid?

[ConeOfConfusion]

I flew with Iberia from Tenerife South to Madrid and it was the worse turbulence I've ever experienced. I slept through the start of it, then I bashed my head on the window. I was feeling ok despite that until half of the passengers and flight attendants started to throw up. It was quite uncomftable having to sit beside someone who had thrown up all over their table which wasn't cleared up for a good 30 minutes.

[llondel]

Back in 2000 I was on a Virgin 747 flight out of LGW where there was some interesting turbulence just after take-off. I'd had up-and-down stuff before, but this had some fun side-to-side motions as well, and overhead bins were popping open. I was just thinking 'wow, this is bumpy', the people across the aisle from me were praying. We were quite far back on that occasion, I suspect that it's worse back there than over the wing box.

[shobakker]

Yes - once on an internal flight in Pakistan between Islamabad & Lahore....

Flight was diverted to Multan due to massive thunderstorms in the Lahore area - we were in an F28 - and prior to landing in Multan we went through some dreadful turbulence - at one point we dropped like a stone for what seemed like 30 seconds. I'm sure it was more like 2 seconds but that is the only time I've ever felt slightly concerned whilst flying....

[G SXTY]

Short answer - no. I'm afraid of spiders, but not turbulence.

Slightly longer answer - passengers and flight crews have very different perceptions of turbulence. Pilots fly every day and are used to it; what we would regard as 'light chop' would cause some passengers distress. 'Moderate turbulence' would have people throwing up down the back. I'm not afraid of turbulence because I know how strong airliners are - they have to be to withstand my landings. Turbulence has to worse than most pilots - let alone passengers - will ever experience before bits start breaking off, and airliners can sustain huge inflight overloads or damage and still land safely. Think of the Aloha 737 that lost a large part of its cabin roof, or the China Airlines 747 and TWA 727 that had serious high altitude upsets, performed aerobatics at transonic speeds on the way down, and still managed to land with various bits missing or hanging off).

That said, turbulence can be uncomfortable and fatiguing even when the autopilot is doing the flying, and we will do our best to avoid it. I am also much more aware of bumps and lurches when positioning in the cabin. I'm sure that having hands on the controls and eyes on the instruments helps insulate me from much of the discomfort.

[angels]

The Bay of Bengal/Andaman Sea is crap for turbulence.

I was once on a KL flight from LHR which got into the worst CAT I've ever known. An unsecured trolley cart wrought havoc in the next compartment. The plane was pitching all over the shop.

I was just sitting there with eyes tightly closed and 'doing a G SXTY', IE marvelling about what a superb bit of kit the 744 is.

The turbulence was that severe that the pilot started heading east towards Burma and ended up flying a ruddy great arc around the CAT. The route looked quite odd on the flytracker! Five or six people, including a CC member, were walking wounded when we got into KL.

I don't mind spiders. :E

[aviatordom]

The worst bit of turbulence that i've experienced was back in May 2007 on a BA 744, whilst travelling from LHR to JFK

The flight had been uneventful until we starting flying over the tip of Canada. We experienced a couple of bumps here 'n there, but a few minutes later the turbulence was much stronger and your stomach "dropped" a couple of times. This carried on for a good 30/45 minutes.

Wasn't very scary for those who know that turbulence hardly bothers the aircraft (i.e me;)). but there were a good few passengers in our cabin section that did not like what was going on what so ever.

===

The first time i've been properly scared about turbulence was in January 2007 when i was flying from FNC to LTN on a TOM 752.

As i hadn't been flying for ages, i developed a very minor "fear"

Before we tookoff, i was hoping that we wouldn't fly through any turbulence, and thankfully we did until we was on approach at Luton.

During this period, the turbulence was pretty rough and i just had visions of the aircraft plunging thousands of feet and into the ground below, obviusly i was being ridiculoud and we didn't!

[Brian H]

The worst turbulence I have ever experienced was on an Aden Airways DC3 in 1958 flying from Aden to Nairobi. A member of the cabin crew was walk up the aisle with a tray of cups in one hand and a coffee pot in the other, the next thing I saw was cups flying in every direction. then for the next two hours we encountered severe turbulence. One minute I was looking at the sky out of the window and the next at the ground. When we landed the pilot came into the cabin and said he had never experienced anything like before. I have never seen so many people being sick on an aircraft.

[FSXFan]

I have to say the thought of severe turbulence is the one thing that puts that never fails to put the ****s up me even though I know the chances of encountering it (as a non-frequent flyer) are slim. I don't know if it's a myth or not, but sitting in the centre of the aircraft seems to help and of course avoiding flights on small regional jets! I don't fly that often - perhaps 20 legs each year - here are three probably inconsequential events that I remember beginning with the most recent:

1) Yesterday departed from NCE on a FR flight..after takeoff we ascended into thick cloud after about 1 minute. The plane was rolling left/right quite a bit for a further 10 minutes or so and scared the hell out of me and my fellow pax. Everyone was belted in so no problems with people/objects flying around the cabin.
2) Last Feb descended into BHX in a Force 7 - two female pax behind me screamed all the way down (I couldn't quite compete here :}) Am I right in thinking landing in strong winds is always more uncomfortable than taking off?
3) Last year on a flight across the pond to JFK on an A330. Cabin service had to be stopped about three hours in - turbulence didn't last too long but it wasn't a pleasent experience.

It is during these moments that I take my hat off to cabin crew & pilots!

[Chesty Morgan]

Have you ever been in turbulence which made you afraid?

Not really afraid but I almost, for want of a better phrase, sh*t my pants once.

Completely out of the blue on a really smooth day over Spain. Severe CAT gave us about 50 degrees of bank one way and then the other and a loss of about 400 feet in the space of about 5 seconds...it certainly concentrated the mind briefly!

But of course you have to sound really cool on the radio and the PA:}

[llondel]

Thinking back a bit, what scares me about potential turbulence is the behaviour of some other passengers when the seatbelt sign gets turned off. On my last flight I was sat next to someone who just unfastened his seatbelt when the sign went off. He didn't get up, shift position or anything, he just took it off. I'm not too concerned if he head-butts the ceiling or the overhead lockers, but I'd much rather he didn't land on me on the way down (up?) again. I keep mine fastened, even though I loosen it once we've gained height.

[BelArgUSA]

The worst turbulence - and violent weather...
Well, take the "3rd planet from the sun" and point to any spots...
I have flown there. Europe, the Americas, Asia, Africa, Oceania...
xxx
Yet I consider the USA Midwest has having the worst turbulences and violent clouds.
You can encounter "cumulo-granitos" aka CB that will dismantle your aeroplane.
If you are stupid enough to try to tangle with them.
For me, as a rule, I leave them on the side, by 50 NM if need be.
I do not particularly enjoy to have my coffee wetting my pants.
Oklahoma, or Kansas, and a few other states around there can be extremely nasty.
Nastier than Pakistan, Bengal, Uganda, Phillipines or the North Pacific.
xxx
:eek:
Happy contrails

[Load Toad]

I fly quite a bit and have had some rough stuff around Asia but nothing that was scary - uncomfortable, occasionally dramatic (flying in to HK just after a typhoon had passed by) - but I guess compared to what pilots are used to fairly minor stuff.

Once however a good few years back I was flying with some mates back from a holiday in USA. Out of Boston with Virgin on a 747. After a while it got a bit choppy - my mates who didn't fly very often looked a bit alarmed so I said 'Oh it's nothing - chill out - quite normal'. They relaxed... a little later it really was all over the place (or so it felt down the back). Cabin crew were strapped in, some screams and stuff flying about.

One mate turned to me 'So LT is this still normal?'
'No - I'm ****ing ***ting it now!' says I my knuckles white grabbing the armrests...

Their faces were a picture. Cheered me up no end.

[ghostrider1]

Twin Otter with Grand Canyon Airways in the afternoon from Grand Canyon Airport to Boulder city.

I was at the back near the door with my brother. He is deaf so could'nt hear my wife and niece screaming !

Apparently it is always turbulent due to the canyon sides.

Loads of fun though !

[Seat62K]

Most memorable turbulence:
Los Angeles-London, BA 747-200. Laker DC10 ahead of us had reported severe turbulence. Apparently caused by summer sun heating the air above frozen wastes.
Auckland-Christchurch, Air New Zealand 747-200.
Caracas-Port of Spain, Aeropostal DC9.
[On both the above two I remember female passengers sitting next to me (strangers, I might add) clutching my hand in sheer terror!]
Valencia-Stansted, Ryanair. What was most notable about this turbulence was not its severity (it was slight) but that it lasted for most of the journey. The seat belt signs, which had been switched on over Spain, were not switched off again until we were over the French coast and had started our descent.

[Peter47]

As a matter of interest, is it true that there are fixed routes over some countries which pilots are not allowed to deviate from even if there is a thundersorm en route?

[boguing]

Not yet, but.

Best one was on a flight out to Preveza from the UK. Completely smooth flight, and had asked for a cockpit visit for the kids - then about ten and five.

So, up we go, just descending over the Italian coast, pointing out the geography.

Sudden CAT, drivers suggest return to seats.

So we do, as CAT disappears.

Absolutely brilliant, apologising to each row as we passed.

[VAFFPAX]

Never had turbulence that scared the wits out of me. I'm fairly clear-headed where that's concerned. When it's my time to go it's my time to go... and if that's turbulence taking out the alu tube I'm in, then hey, there's nothing I can do about it... might as well hold on and 'enjoy' the ride. I have all the faith in the three (now two) folks up front with their hands on the yoke. If I can't have faith in them, I might as well crawl into a hole and never come out again.

:-\

S.

[AeroMad]

The worst turbulance I have expirienced would've been flying back to Heathrow From Milan.

Finals into Heathrow we had moderate turbulance with a very strong crosswind from the south west. Remember seeing the runway and the aircraft flaring, next thing the aircraft suddenly banks to the right and we have an imidiate go-around, within less than a second we had a mexican wave of sick (:yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk:). Landed after second try.

After the flight I found out that the aircraft had almost landed on the grass, when we flared we caught a strong gust :bored:

Was I afraid?..... I was ****ing my self.

[Tight Slot]

Enjoyed it?? Bugger that off I hate it! Worst I've had is an upset not just turb. FL 370, doing .80 I (we) met some mountain wave and went up to .87 right wing high speed stalled, and we dropped 400ft. Ouch!

75-2 - Only ever flight I've had when ALL the crew hugged me after the flight.

Still in touch with one of them..... :)

[GANNET FAN]

Some 10 or 12 years ago I took a taxi to JFK to fly BA 747 to LHR. The weather was mind bogglingly awful, tropical type rain storm and severe gales. Once boarded, it was disturbing to be seated and feel the 74 being bounced around in the wind even still at the stand. The boss came on the PA and said there was a delay due to late arriving pax; like hell...no one in their right mind was going to move then. Incidentally the storm was so severe most of NY suffered a power failure that night.

Eventually we did take off and oh boy...lightning, yo yo-ing, lockers popping open, screams, the whole shebang. Me slumped further and further down the seat until we broke through the nasty stuff, then a bloody big G&T. Yup I'm the chicken!

But I'm somewhat heartened by these posts to know that the airframe can take it!!

Tell me please, is the autopilot still "in charge" or does manual flying take over, can the autopilot react that quickly to counter very violent turbulence?

GF

[Lord Lardy]

Tell me please, is the autopilot still "in charge" or does manual flying take over, can the autopilot react that quickly to counter very violent turbulence?

You would generally leave the autopilot in. However if the turbulence is very severe it sometimes won't allow you to engage it as it keeps tripping out. The recommendation would be to leave it in. However the autothrust/autothrottle (i.e the automatic accelerator) would be taken out if it is very bad to stop the sudden power increases and decreases as the aircraft bobs up and down.

Turbulence is not dangerous, only uncomfortable. It's no different to a boat bobbing up and down on a wave. CAT is exactly that, waves in the upper atmosphere. The aircraft simply goes up and down these. One thing to note however is that an aircraft dosen't drop hundreds of feet. You have to consider that a modern jet aircraft cruises at between 500 and 550mph. Every time it hits one of these bumps it always feels alot worse than it is. It's no different to a car hitting a speed ramp at speed. If you slow the car down, then it dosen't feel as bad. Thats exactly what pilots do when they encounter turbulence, they slow the aircraft down to make it more comfortable.

[Tight Slot]

Lord Lardy - oh yes it can! We dropped 400ft in around 7 seconds. Crew, carts, anything hit the roof. Not nice one bit. One broken arm, and plenty of dry cleaning after it...

An upset is just that, never want to go though one again.

Regards

[garibaldi22000]

My main fear of flying is that it will be turbulent for the duration of the flight & that my body would not be able to cope with stress. This is obviously an irrational fear & I never for 1 minute think that the a/c might fail.

Although I've travelled to New Zealand twice, to LA at least 4 times & made numerous hops to europe, Turbulance still really spooks me.

Of my many flights there are only 2 occasions when things have been of concern:
1) Auckland to Christchurch over the Tasmin Strait. ANZ-146. CAT there is apparently very common as it starts & stops (as if being switched on/off) when crossing the coast. It was VERY bumpy but not too alarming.
2) LAX to LHR (Jun 92) ANZ 747-400. We were at 30KFT+ but in thick cloud. Just as we were being served our dinner, the FO announced that there would be severe turbulence in the next few minutes & that all crew should clear everything away & strap in.
It was extremely scarey as we dropped on 4/5 occasions followed by the engines on full (?) power to help the a/c back to required altitude. 1 member of cabin crew could not get to her seat quck enough & resulted in banging her head on the cabin ceiling, a pax also required oxygen & further medical attention. This only lasted for about 15 minutes but was very scarey. I was even tempted to start praying.

Any ideas how I can cure/manage this fear (apart from the no no method of lots of alcohol pre-flight) ?
thanks

[Helol]

Each time I've flown eastwards from LHR, the Bay of Bengal area always seemed to be rather more turbulent than elswhere.

Is there a reason for this, or is it coincidence?

[Pete_slf]

Not scared of turbulence, but don't like it.
Worst for me was the end of Feb last year. Domestic flight from EDI to MAN. Embraer 145, sat at the back. seat belt signs all the way, CC strapped in, too. And I was busting for a pee 10 mins after take off.

Approach into MAN was a bit sporting and i made full use of the sick bag provided:yuk:. One or two screams from other pax as the A/C pitched, rolled and yawed its way towards the runway.

Once we dropped out of the cloud over the runway I though it was all over and we we'd be back on terra firma soon, I heard the engnes spool up again. We were going around. Or not. Captain had already had enough and we were off to BHX.

On reflection, the worst part was the 2 hour coach ride back to my car at MAN!:*

[Avman]

Folks, do remember that it feels a lot worse at the back than in the middle, or even the front for that matter. If you're travelling in Y class, try and get seated around the centre section of the a/c.

[llondel]

I've found that the most reliable predictor of imminent turbulence is the meals trolley. About two minutes after my meal arrives the airframe starts shuddering. Fortunately it's yet to be bad enough that I end up wearing the meal instead of eating it.

[BladePilot]

Air Canada 747 back in the late 80's inbound to Toronto I was sitting on the upper deck and the flightdeck door had been open the whole flight.
On approach to the Canadian coast the Captain announced that he expected 'moderate' turbulence on the way down. Almost immediately after he stopped speaking the aircraft reacted as if on cue and we all had that fleeting moment of stomach churning weightlessness as we dropped what was probaly only 50ft or less but then...... as if dissapointed that she hadn't procured a satisfactory response from the passengers the old bird dropped again but this time it was much more severe. After what seemed like 30 seconds or so (it was probably only a couple) I recall hearing the airframe groan as it 'bottomed out' and stress levels increased instantaneously on the wings.

Then from beyond the open flightdeck door I heard 'YeeeeeeHaaaaa boy that was a peach' followed by a real loud belly aching laugh .. knowing that the crew were enjoying the ride made me instantly relax and I sat eagerly anticipating the next moment of butt clenching terror.



Here it comes........ YeeeeeeHaaaaaa:ok:

[EZYA319]

I actually quite like turbulence and it doesn't really scare me however the Worst I ever experienced was operating as crew on an IBZ flight 2 years ago on a 733. The purser was out doing the 2nd service with single cart and was at about row 19-20 and I was in the rear galley. It started to get a little bit bumpy and the seat belt signs flicked on, almost instantly it got worse and we were being bounced about all over the place. I began to make my way up the cabin to help the senior with the cart and get it back into the galley. Literally just as I put my hands on the trolley the a/c dropped again probably not that much but it felt like it was going on for ages myself and the senior were launched up into the air and landed back across the row of seats and passengers. A tea the senior had just poured went everywhere has did the half full tea pot. pax screaming and panicing but as soon as it had began it was over!!literally in the blink of an eye!!we got the trolley away and of cours it was back to work straight away out dealing with the pax who had been burnt and those who were shook up. Even though we were all shook up as well something just took over and you immediatley went into crew mode like "right I need to get out there and make sure everyones ok" was rather bruised for a few weeks after that but thankfully no real injuries!!scarey flight though!!!

[crispey]

Seat 62K.

I wonder if that was the same day that I was on a Laker DC-10 LAX-MAN.The turbulence started over the Rockies and finally gave out over the west coast of Ireland.I think our total flight time was just over 9 hours of which 8 were in quite severe(to me anyway)turbulence.Very little food or drink was served that day.

It really was quite unerving but we got used to it after a while.And I am a PPL used to being bounced around in a Cherokee on windy days around Manch.As someone has noted it is slightly different if you are doing the actual flying.

Also an extremely bumpy trip in a BA ATR MAN-GLA.I'd asked for and got a flight deck visit.The PAX looked somewhat alarmed as I went forward and then returned to tell my business colleague I was going back up for the remainder of the trip.

Respect to all who do this for a living and to the builders of the machines that can stand the punishment they sometimes endure.

[pumaknight]

Hi Garibaldi,

I used to be afarid of turbulence....and I had to fly alot for my job...so I had to come up with a method of reducing the stress of flying or I would have died from nervous energy.

Firstly I worked out that a fear of turbulence is normally down to the passenger feeling out of control. So if I gained control of the situation then the fear and physical symptoms that always go with fear woudl recede / disappear.

My approach was quite simple really.

First stage of control is preparation: Go to a website called www.turbulenceforecast.com (http://www.turbulenceforecast.com). This site as the name suggests forecast the turbulence on your flight route. I found that if I knew what was coming I felt less anxious. Look at your route. There will always be a few bumps when crossing a coast or mountains. So if you know you are crossing a moutnain range and the plane bumps aroudn a bit, then you have nothing to worry about, it is expected and normal. Never seems as bad if you know it is coming :-)

Second stage of control is physical location: sit as near to the wing as you can. This will give you a visual reference with the horizon. If you look at the wing, you will see that it doesn't go up and down as much as your body thinks. It will also help you orientate your mind to the direction of the bumps....this will calm you down.

Third stage of control is finding peace: use music through an Ipod, normally a calming song. Whilst you are listening to the calming music, you pulse will slow and you will find yourself less likely to get anxious.

Forth stage of control is finding happiness: look at the world going past - the spectacular beauty of the world at 36000ft is amazing.

Last stage of control is giving your trust: most importantly, trust the crew. They know best. If the don't tell you what is happening then it isnt worth talking about. If they don't look worried, then why be worried.

I hope this helps. It did me. I now fly all over the world and don't bat an eyelid...no really, not a jot. I have been in turbulence and just don't register it as a concern. No fear, no nerves, no worries, nothing but loving the flight and the view.

Michael H

[paulc]

Not a great fan of being bounced around - my worst experience was on a flight from Asuncion to Buenos Aries on a Aerolineas 737. Flight was fine up until we started the descent into thick very black and lightning filled clouds. Gentle(ish) bumps / movements but then one violent drop that set the scene for the remainder of the flight. The seat in front hit my leg with such force it tore a hole in my trousers and even managed to cut my leg (which i did not notice until we landed) One of our group's seatbelt had come undone and he was hanging on to arms very tightly. Loose stuff was being tossed about and I remember seeing a passengers' briefcase 'hover' for what seemed like an age but was probably only a couple of seconds. BA at the time (1996) was an overhead join as it was possible to see Ezeiza below us. The winds were pretty strong as I remember looking out of my window (rhs behind wing) and being lined up with the runway. Touchdown was positive but have had worse in much better conditions although we did weave a bit as we slowed. (spontaneous applause all round) About 30 mins after we arrived a World Md11 landed (with an autothrottle problem i think) and departed the end of the runway at low speed - no injuries / damage but it did close the airport for a few hours.

Agree with other posters who say as soon as food / drink is served that is when the turbulence starts.

[The SSK]

My worst experience was on a very unusual operation. In late summer 1972 BEA were operating a weekly Sunday rotation Blackpool-Palma with a One-Eleven and were selling day-return tickets on the positioning flight from/to Manchester for just £4, so got a lot of first-time flyers along for the ride.

Coming back into MAN the aircraft was all over the place, but I honestly thought that the pilot was having a bit of fun at the expense of his passengers – then again, maybe not, nobody would take those kind of liberties with his aeroplane. The lower we got, the worse it got, and there was quite a bit of yelling going on. When we finally got down, he told us that the crosswind had been at the limit, any more and we would have been off to Birmingham like Pete slf.

I later learned that the 1-11 was always a handful in a x-wind landing.

[kiwi99]

Was flying Liverpool - Limoges with Ryanair Summer 08 - beautiful day for flying, not a cloud in the sky, the aeroplane jsut sat there like a baby. Just going out over the Isle of Wight when "bong" the seatbelt sign came on. " Ladies and Gentlemen the captain has turned the seatbelt sign on, please return to your seats". One minute later the cockpit door opened, the man with three gold bars on his shoulder jumped in the loo. He obviously did what he had to do, opened the loo door and returned to his seat up front. Just as the cockpit door closed "bong" out went the sign. Worst turbulence I never encountered.

If you really like it bumpy try flying South Island New Zealand in an ATR 72 into somewhere like Queenstown when there's a roaring Nor'Wester blowing over the Southern Alps.

[frnikolai]

Yes - it was a smooth flight, then suddenly started shaking - then sideways, then going down slightly, down a bit more, shaking more violently, down even more and getting worse and worse. Suddenly seat-belt lights, and engines roar. It was climbing whilst going through the turbulence. It scared the hell out of me, my two younger siblings (8 and 6) were crying and grabbing on to my arms and screaming in very loud Polish!!! I wasn't the only one to be scared though!

[Seat62K]

I can recall another episode - on a Britannia 737 coming into Luton with severe crosswinds. After touchdown the pilot announced that he had not experienced worse crosswinds in his decades of flying.

[crispey]

Saet 62 has sparked my memory again.Not totally relevant but interesting.

Returning to Luton from Moscow one December in a BY 737,the Captain apologised for the slow progress.Apparently at the time we were encountering a head wind of 250 knots and he was unable to move out of the way as we were in Russian airspace and had to stick with the route and the flight level.

However the ride was as smooth as it can be.Not even a tremor.It did take a long time to get home though.

[angels]

In answer to Helol, I did a little Googling and came up with this from Flying the Hump by Otha C.Spencer.

The world’s most violent weather comes into Asia because it is the meeting place of three turbulent air masses: low pressure from the west moves along the main range of the Himalaya between Tibet and India to the Hump, where warm, wet high pressure systems from the Bay of Bengal clash with frigid low pressure from Siberia. The polar vonex, and the heat rising from the jungles of Burma, intensify the weather movement.

I also seem to recall a pilot apologising for the turbulence over the Bay of Bengal as we came into Singers once (it wasn't his fault!). But he said it was caused by air swirling up from the equator meeting the air coming from the Himalayas -- which would seem to gel with the explanation above.