Classic Wings DC-3 farewell day

[skyways]

Hi all,

Sadly the global financial crisis caught us too...

Classic Wings is closing its doors for good, however before we wind up, we are having a DC-3 farewell day, so we can celebrate the aeroplane and real flying one more time.

The farewell day is a series of 45 minute scenic flights from Jandakot, on this Saturday January 10. Tickets are $130 and include champagne and nibbles. If you are interested in the flight, email enquiries @ classicwings.com.au. The 10.00am flight is full, the 11.30am flight is filling up quickly. We will add more flights if need be.

Bear in mind that regs have basically caught the Dak in both the US and the EU - Add to that the fact that after this there is only ONE passenger DC-3 left in regular commercial service in Australia...flying in a DC-3 as a passenger is getting difficult.

Many people have said that they would love to go flying in the Dak "one day" - that one day is here.

[ZEEBEE]

Truly a sad day.

I wanted to reply to your email link, but it doesn't appear to work.

If the flights stretch to the late PM, I'll put my hand up for two seats.

[The Green Goblin]

Thats horrible mate!

What are you going to do with the old girl?

[Skystar320]

Is it the PT-6 powered type?

[Trojan1981]

I hope she is going to a good home...:(

[the wizard of auz]

Tis indeed a sad day. :{ I was hoping to get into the old gal before you shut shop.
What has caused it?. Lack of business?, or other things?.

[Monopole]

Is it the PT-6 powered type No, it's the real McCoy. 18 pumping cylinders of cancer causing smoke to anyone standing down wind when she starts up.

As a short lived and difficult ride that you guys had, you can be confident that you pushed to the end. An acheivement that you can be proud of. And of course the experience of flying this wonderful bird.

All the best of luck for the future.

[Charlie Foxtrot India]

Very sorry to hear that it didn't work out, guys.

CWS has always been one to make you stop whatever you are doing and just watch and listen to her going by. A real treat.

[tinpis]

Always sad when yer dreams dont work the first time
Keep dreaming
It may have been that you were trying to make an honest quid in Perth, something that is a little alien to the culture? :E

[skyways]

The whole scenario has turned out to be something that would almost be worthy of a book!

Not to say that's the only cause, but it's a major one - let's just say that its not a lack of business, but the "other factors" involved that after pushing against them for 3 years, you get to a point of saying enough is enough.

We're not looking at this as a loss or a failure, or even as not fulfilling our dreams. We wanted to operate a DC-3 on commercial passenger work, and we did. We also upset a lot of the "other factors" along the way...

Walking into the office with a C of A application and being asked point blank for ID to check I'm old enough and "do my parents know I'm doing this?" - Not only have I been able to fly a DC-3, but I've been able to fly it with my old man which has been some of the most enjoyable flying I will ever do...you don't get luckier than that.

"These things belong behind glass cases in a museum, and that's where this should be" - now she holds a certificate of airworthiness.

"You'll never have an AOC issued for this aeroplane" - guess what there's a copy of sitting in a frame in my office?

"You'll never carry passengers in it" - I have my stockpile of letters, emails and cards of thanks...and the images of passengers who sat back and shed a quiet tear as memories came back to them of what flying was really like or as they fulfilled their own dreams of flying in a machine like the Dak.

Trust me, the list goes on...

Its all of the above that we're celebrating this weekend - not what we didn't get to do, but rather what we actually acheived. Its not the end of anything as such, merely the closing of a chapter and seeing what the next one is.

Yes, it hasn't gone on nearly as long as we'd hoped...but as you say Tinpis...this is just the first time around... :)

[Wingnuts]

For Regulation relief, have you considered operating under a ‘Limited COA in the Experimental Category’ using ‘Schedule 5’ maintenance program? (It is ironic that a proven aircraft that has been flying for over 70 years and of which over 16,000 were built should be considered ‘experimental’.)

I believe you can still carry passengers provided they are members of a suitable organisation as set up. That is, there is a membership joining fee component to their ticket.

[Van Gough]

We also upset a lot of the "other factors" along the way..

That is very interesting. Could it be some conflicts of interest at work somewhere?

[skyways]

Not necessarily...I meant more along the lines of we were told time and time again that certain things couldn't be done, but we found a way to make them happen.

[tinpis]

Recalcitrant forces have good memories and incredibly long lives when bestowed with the prospect of a trough sucking sinecure and a golden handshake in the service of the public
Always remember a name to be avoided, you can be certain your future ventures would most probably land on their desk

[sixtiesrelic]

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/sixtiesrelic/youcandoanything.jpg


Them's wot make things difficult can't ever sit back and feel the satisfaction you guys have, at having a go.

Aviation...
There's those who think they fly like eagles
I've flown with better.... those who soar like the albatross... effortlessly.
There's lots that flap their wings like bugg*ry, whistling and lurching along, through the air like the pidgeons.
And there's the roosters... Can't fly at all, hurl abuse at all and sundry from the safety of their enclosed cage, fluff 'em selves up and menacingly scratch dirt to impress the chooks who don't even care.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

G'Day Skyways,

Have left a telephone msg - bookings for 2 please.

Have flown with you before, ex JT, and look forward to doing it again!

See you on Sat.

Best Regards, :D:D

[SkySista]

Hey Skyways...

Just wanted to add my congrats on achieving the 'impossible'... with persistence, creativity & an attitude like yours I don't think there's ever a door that won't eventually be open to you.

I haven't posted on here in a long time but you once gave me some very helpful advice when I was starting out, so thanks, and best wishes for whatever you decide to take on in the future! Wish I could be there to see you all off on your last hurrah! :ok:

SS

PS- Any chance of a fly-past of the city so us office-plebs can hear the old bird one last time?? :E

[tinpis]

OT but that young man in the photty above looks like he could have been married to Nicole Kidman at one time...... :}

[Desert Flower]

OT but that young man in the photty above looks like he could have been married to Nicole Kidman at one time......

Handsome young devil isn't he - even made my old heart beat faster! ;)

DF.

[pall]

Skyways,

I am starting a new thread I hope you will contribute to. I love these old classic DC3's and flew in them as a boy.

As a PPL who only flys lighties I am fascinated to know what these AC are like to fly. Please contribute to my new thread "Flying the DC3" so we can gain some insight into what it is like.

Thanks for this thread and your comments.:ok:

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

To David and Bill, Dave and Rob, et al,

Well guys, all I can say is 'What a Wonderful Last Flight'!!! :ok::ok:

The sounds, the smell of hot oil, the 'nostalgia factor' and the Crew Service - OUTSTANDING!!! :D :D :D

Thankyou very much for a wonderful day's outing, and for your professional courtesy, patience, and understanding. :cool:

All I can add is, to wish you ALL the VERY BEST in your next venture, and 'tis indeed a pity that you are not able to continue as you would like to. :{:{

Best Regards,

Griffo and Son.............:D :D :D

[Stationair8]

So CASA make it hard for operators with an AOC who wish to use a DC-3 for joy flights, but then on the other hand you can operate a warbird such as a Strikemaster/NanChangs with no AOC and still charge the passenger?
How many people been killed on DC-3 joyflights in Australia?

[sixtiesrelic]

"How many people been killed on DC-3 joyflights in Australia?"

The pilots are mostly very senior Airline or Airforce guys..
What are the rooster's claim to fame?
Funnily enough, the industry is so close nit that someone always knows everyones history... and they're happy to tell when it's suitable.

[greybeard]

Just to add my thanks to the team "Classic Wings".

Last time as a crew on DC-3 was 19 Feb 1971, VH-ANX, Dampier - Perth, 5hrs:5mins.
Today on the first of the "last" flights to be accorded the jump seat was an unexpected privilage I will cherish while I still breath.
The sounds, smells and THE NOISE brought back so many memories of my time in the right seat, "learning my trade".
Wife, pilot daughter and her fella as a bonus to see the "old girl" out.

To all who made it possible, a greatful thanks from Greybeard.

:D:ok:

[Hasherucf]

Skyways said:
"These things belong behind glass cases in a museum, and that's where this should be" - now she holds a certificate of airworthiness.


Well shes better built than the 30 year old fleet of Pipers, Cessnas and Beeches that GA operators are running. Maybe they should be retired first.


Hope the old girl finds a good place to roost and not in a museum:8

[YBRM]

Just so darn frustrating! Two guys who have such a passion for aviation and the machine they fly, operating much safer than some of the dunses out there in industry, and the regulator gives you a hard time??? This is exactly why after a short time I had given the "government" the flick....... there are many, not all, who work in this department who have totally lost touch with the industry. Clean 'em out I say, start from scratch! :ugh:

Well done boys, you represent what this industry is to most of us..... a passion :ok: :D

Look forward to catchin' up with ya in the west soon..........

[sixtiesrelic]

Worst thing is... it is the last aeroplane that passengers could walk up the front and have a look at the pilots working. The captain announced, "We may be busy on the radios and not be able to talk to you, but you're welcome to visit and take photos".
So many people got the chance to get photos of the cockpit and blurry ones of themselves near the pilots.
Also that bubble window in the last row was a hit. Everyone had a go at looking straight down and back past the tail where their eyes or camera were a foot outboard of the fuselage without getting their hair blown about.
The most memorable thing for all passengers, was the joy the crew instilled into us all... the pre-flight talk about the family's and plane's history. We were here to enjoy flying in the fifties manner. The mood of feeling important, an adventurer, and part of a select band permiated the cabin.
Because people were free to move about the cabin they talked to strangers who were sharing the experience. Especially easy to break the ice was, asking if you could take a photo out their window or "take a picky of us" .
I went on a couple of flights and the remarkable thing was the mood of the passengers on alighting. They didn't want to climb in the bus and leave, but most either wanted a close look at her and did, or wanted to get away on the tarmac to get a good angle for many photos or talk to the crew who were delighted to take the time to chat, pose for a photo with us and answer questions understandably.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/sixtiesrelic/paxembark.jpg

The greatest experiencess were, NO bloody security checks, NO roped off walk way that we had to remain on, to and from, with tarmac police watching your every move, no hurrying morons pushing to be first to the baggage claim, the leg room (Short people were too far from their table to comfortably eat their meal in the emergency exit row) and the freedom to move about the cabin and even stand in then aisle for a while without getting the evil eye from some poor harassed flight attendant.
There's only Shortstop in Melbourne left now and I enjoyed a flight with them, but they didn't get quite the same ambiance as Bill and David's operation. I guess there were more family members involved with CWS and David's young age certainly was inspirational.
If you haven't been and you're in Melbourne some time ... GO. Who knows how long we've got. The Yanks need a steel door to keep the riff raff out of cockpit and I'm not sure if anyone is fitting them. The EU require radar and emergency slides. No one has tried to fit them, so there's only Shortstop or New Zealand.

[Chimbu chuckles]

Bullet proof doors, radar and escape slides on a joy flight Dak...only a fecking 'public servant' could come up with **** like that:ugh:

Interestingly the joy flight Junkers 52 in Germany doesn't require slides because the rear door is a few inches closer to the ground.

If the demand is there, and it may not be in a truly commercial sense due to the current economic woes, why not form a club and $1 from each passengers fare is instant 'membership dues' for 1 year?

Post flight each 'new' member issued with a ornate membership certificate as a souvenir...say a 12 x 10 glossy of CWS with a membership number, their name and date of flight.

They sign a form acknowledging this fact and the fact they dont feel the need for 'their' club aircraft to conform to Transport Category rules pulled out of some bureaucrat's ar$e.

You could also offer type rating training...I did a few hours in a Dak 25 odd years ago but somehow never ended up with the rating on my licence...went off to PNG instead...I'd come and do one just for the hell of it.

You could even take appropriately licensed chaps who have paid for a type rating and let them fly the thing a few times a year ICUS for the same fare as their fellow club members are paying for a ride in the back. Hell I'd do that.

Don't give up yet...there are still bureaucrats needing to be taught their true worth in the grand scheme of things..their real value to society.... fecking zero!!!!!

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

Damn, I read this post two days late. I would have loved to celebrate with you on Saturday. Well done,

FRQ CB

[Pedota]

Even though I now live and work in the 'eastern states', I let an engineer mate know about the last flights. He went along and here is his unedited reaction - and if someone can tell me how to post photos I will . . . Cheers.

Thanks for the info on the last flight it was great – the old girl really gets up a hum on takeoff. It had more seat room that Qantas cattle class and in flight we walked around while sipping champagne. Windows were small but we also had a long gawk out the front cockpit windows. The pilot even had the sliding window open so he could see the white pointers at Swanbourne beach .

While taxi-ing out he announced that he didn’t give a Shiite about any electronic devices, laptops, phones, games or whatever as he jabbed the brakes and jerked the plane around straight on the runway.

We had a few dips in flight to get the stomach moving and nearly spilt my bubbly, the pilot also bounced the plane a few times on landing but I had the impression it was all done to impress the troops.

Few phone photos of trip. More proof of how flat Perth is kept my mind off the right hand engine that had oil leaks! Also liked the papier-mâché rear control surface and all the those bicycle brake type control wires in the wheel well.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Sat up in seat 1D for the T/O to enjoy the SOUND! and watch that little oil trail streaming across the engine cowl, (Normal) - and after reaching the cruise we were all invited to 'move around' and share the 'Viewmaster' bubble window, and sip the champers....:ok::ok:

For the approach and landing, sat down the back with No1 son, and he was laughing all the way in...:)
Looking up the aisle and out thru the front window, it looked like the approach from a crazy movie - blue sky , ground, tilted sky again, straight sky, tilted ground...then the 'round out'....and a gentle 'wheeler'..:D:D

From the perspective of being on the 'end of the seesaw' down the back - its LUVLY!!

Cheers and Thanks again guys :ok::ok:

[Jabawocky]

This is the posting of Pedota's Pics......and maybe some Captions if he wishes to add commentary later!

http://file046b.bebo.com/4/large/2009/01/13/00/4525920200a9859625625l.jpg

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http://file046b.bebo.com/4/large/2009/01/13/00/4525920200a9859625774l.jpg

http://file046b.bebo.com/4/large/2009/01/13/00/4525920200a9859625818l.jpg

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http://file046b.bebo.com/4/large/2009/01/13/00/4525920200a9859625908l.jpg

http://file046b.bebo.com/4/large/2009/01/13/00/4525920200a9859625956l.jpg

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http://file046b.bebo.com/4/large/2009/01/13/00/4525920200a9859626043l.jpg

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

One of the vivid memories from my childhood is my Father running to "catch" a DC3 flight from Mackay to Brisbane.

He was late, and the aeroplane had its engines running, door closed, and had started to taxi. It stopped, the door opened, and Dad ran across the apron threw his bag in and shinnied up through the doorway - no boarding stairs required!

My recollection is that he knew the pilot, having been a wireless operator (ex-RAAF WWII aircrew) with ANA on post-war military contract run from Brisbane to Manila and back each week.

Kinda hard to imagine that happening today!

As kids growing up in Brisbane, my brother and I used to rock up to the maintainance hangars at Eagle Farm and ask if we could take a look through the aircraft in the hangars - DC3s, DC4s (?), Convairs, Vicounts etc. Can't remember ever being refused.

Dr :8

[future.boeing.cpt]

Such a beautiful and graceful looking old bird.

[triton140]

..... and watch that little oil trail streaming across the engine cowl .......

I was fortunate enough in 1986 to spend a week or two travelling around the NT in an Air North DC3 - just a fantastic experience and two great pilots with us.

I remember the little oil trail - plus the sights, sounds and smells of flying in a true classic.

It got me thinking about flying (particularly regular conversations with the crew over dinner) and was probably one of the experiences that led me to take up flying (albeit a little late in life, but then they say it's never too late!).

[sixtiesrelic]

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/sixtiesrelic/billoil.jpg

Was that oil leak in the right hand engine spillage when she was filled.
Often there's a bit slopped when one fills the oil filler with a five gallon oil drum and can't get the last bit down the bottom wiped up.
Oil smears spectacularly down the nacelle and wing

[Fantome]

FT Dr K - talk of running after the plane you want to catch, is a reminder of one of the late Terry (Captain Perspex) Burn's stories. He was a newbie ANA DC3 F/0 to a crabby old skipper, taxying Mascot for Essendon. Hostie comes up and says there's a bloke on board who says he's on the wrong plane. His ticket's for Brisbane and he's cutting up real bad that he has to get off. Says he can see his bag in easy reach in the back locker. Skipper pulls up near the holding point. Says to the girl, let him out and chuck his bag after him. Tell him to keep a good eye out walking back to the terminal. Terry reckoned it was one of the funniest sights of his life, lining up for take off and seeing this little figure sloping off across the grass lugging his port. Terry's last DC3 doings were flying Paradak's VH-CAN on skydiving at Corowa and elsewhere. He lost one just as the gear was coming up. 40 degree day, 50 skydivers on the floor or strap hanging. Terry eases her round the circuit, heading for the cross runway, only just holding her in the air. His co-joe is fresh out of flying school with hardly any time on type. As they turn final, very low and about half a mile to run, out of the corner of his eye Terry sees the young fella's hand go for the gear lever. Terry bellows 'LEAVE THAT ALONE'. Only when sure of clearing the fence does he call for it. Terry said he damaged his vocal chords to the extent he couldn't speak right for a week.

[wombat four]

I heard a story that the guy who claims to be a DC3 whizz, had a hand in the stupid rules, actually failed his DC3 endorsement.

Any comment.

W 4

[tinpis]

DC3's dont have Nokia props :=

[Led Zep]

This one has digital props tinpis. :}