Electronic Engine 'Bits'

[aviation_enthus]

Been browsing the net recently and came upon the products offered by JP Instruments, GAMI and the like.

Let me just put this out there first:
THIS IS NOT A THREAD ON L.O.P or R.O.P OPERATIONS!!

My interest is in the systems themselves. Surely having access to more accurate readings would allow fuel savings to be made.

For example from the JP Instruments site the EDM 930 has a Lean Find function that finds the peak for you. It also monitors fuel flow and quantity and provides information on fuel remaining at destination, endurance etc. Onboard memory for accurate trend monitoring is also available.

Considering the whole system is available for under $6K (US) and could be combined with GAMI injectors as well ($1K US),

Why don't more people/operators use these systems??

[Jabawocky]

They damn well should!

J:ok:

[aviation_enthus]

Is there any operators out there that use these systems?

Chasing info specifically on fitout of this system or something similar in C210 or B36 ?? Thoughts? Experiences?

I think the good Dr has mentioned a C210 fitted with GAMI's and something from JPI, how much can the fuel burn be brought down by?

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

AE, Chuckles is the expert around here on all-cylinder engine monitors.

Yes, in early 2008 I did run in new IO550 in a C210 fitted with an EDM800 and TCM Balanced Injectors.

The FTDK has Gamijectors but no all-cylinder engine monitor - a situation that is a bit odd - and is about to be corrected with an EDM700 going in next week. It also has Shadin Digital fuel flow - so I don't need that on the EDM.

Digital fuel flow is a must have in my opinion - once you have confidence in its calibration. If mine says I have used 205 L, I expect to put 204-206 L back into it to fill it up. Spot on every time. Admittedly I can usually get within 5 L just on my mental estimate of fuel used. The digital fuel flow lets me compare with confidence Endurance Remaining with ETE to my destination for whatever power setting I happen to be using, so I know what my resereves are.

The big advantage of an all cylinder engine monitor is that it lets you see what is happening with CHT and EGT for each cylinder - in real time, an monitors that for you all the time within alarm limits that you can set - so it will alert you immediately if something is going haywire!

Mine gives CHT and EGT on all cylinders, battery voltage (with alarm), oil temp, OAT, and RPM. The EDM800 gives %HP as well.

Hard to talk about how much fuel you might save without getting into LOP, and we are barred from that (:O). Needless to say - it is hard to get into operating LOP without one.

I also have digital RPM on mine - as a backup and a check the main tacho.

If you dig around on the web you will find many stories of people who have detected problems with their engines from their all-cylinder engine monitors - before any catastrophic failure has occurred.

Can't argue with that when you spend as much time in the murk in a SE aeroplane as I do.

Dr :8

[...still single]

I have used JPI's and Gami's in PNG where a few operators have them.

They're great, well worth the expense and offer many advantages over standard setups, but fuel savings is not one of them (unless you go to the Dark side :E -LOP).

Why would it save fuel? With the standard kit, you operate say, 50deg ROP. That is 50deg ROP on whichever cylinder has the probe, hopefully it's the leanest one, but who knows? With the JPI, you operate the same 50deg ROP referencing the leanest cylinder. So now all the other cylinders are definitely running >50deg ROP.

Which is good, but not saving any fuel.

Put the Gami's in, the spread will tighten up so that all the richer cylinders are now running closer to 50deg ROP, but the difference in fuel consumption is negligible.

Advantages for this expensive kit include; Knowing which cylinder is richest/leanest; knowing how fast the engine is heating/cooling AND what affects it the most; Crook spark plug? Now you know exactly which one it is; Smoother running engine; Lower idle speed (if you want -I know a guy who bought Gami's just for that); Accurate fuel flow and usage -awesome!

[Jabawocky]

In the absence of Chuck, and I am sure he will catch up with this thread, here is some REALLY GOOD educational material for you to study up on before he arrives. Now do ya homework before the teacher gets in! ;)

Pelican's Perch #63:<br>Where Should I Run My Engine? (Part 1) (http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182179-1.html)

Pelican's Perch #64<br>Where Should I Run My Engine?<br>(Part 2 — The Climb) (http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182176-1.html)

Pelican's Perch #65<br>Where Should I Run My Engine?<br>(Part 3 -- Cruise) (http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182583-1.html)

Pelican's Perch #66<br>Where Should I Run My Engine?<br>(Part 4 -- Descent) (http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/183094-1.html)

My suggestion is print it all off and read it through several times over a month or two to get the whole science of it in your head, so its recall not just something you read once and need the pages to refer to.

J:ok:

[aviation_enthus]

So... even if you don't change the way the aircraft is operated, safety is improved dramatically by having access to more information on what your engine is doing!

Running a C210/B36 LOP with these systems what is the burn per hour?

DR I think you mentioned a C210 with EDM 800 and GAMI's flying DN - ASP on one tank?

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

DR I think you mentioned a C210 with EDM 800 and GAMI's flying DN - ASP on one tank?

Nooooo, Not me!

I have no experience with LOP. I currently run the IO520 in the V35B at 25o ROP on its single EGT = by the book.

I generally fly 8 -10,000', full throttle/2300 rpm - gives me 162 TAS and 50 L/hr

I would expect LOP to knock maybe 5 L/hr and 5 kts off this - but that's just a guess!

Dr :8

[flywatcher]

Apart from the issues of being able to identify many problems before they get too serious, one the the great advantages of an all cylinder monitor on many carburetted engines, the Cessna 182 being a prime example, is greatly reduced fuel burn, up to one and a half gallons per hour or $10 - $11 per hour at current fuel prices. This is because the 182 is notorious for its quirky induction system but with judicious use of carb heat, along with a carb temperature gauge, it is possible to reduce the EGT spread from over 140 back to about 40 degrees.This allows the leanest cylinder to be 50 rich of peak and the richest 90 rich of peak rather than the richest 190 degrees rich of peak. With all the cylinders running much more evenly, substantial savings in fuel burn can be achieved. This advice is worth what it cost you.

[Chimbu chuckles]

Hello!

AE I have had an EDM700 with fuel flow/Gamijectors in my Bonanza for 8 years - operated LOP mostly over that time.

All cylinder engine monitors should be mandatory equipment in big bore piston singles and twins, especially if operated commercially...it is just that simple.

[nomorecatering]

And for that matter, ALL aircraft should have fuel totalizers and fuel flow guages. They're not that expensive or complicated.

Its 105 years since the wright bros flew and we're still Guessing how much fuel is in our tanks. and how much we're using.

[OZBUSDRIVER]

Jest get 'em!

The benefit could be in knowing you can overfly a fuel stop with ample safety margin and save heaps of time in the process.