whats happening at rfds west ops

[kingair 200]

Hello All.
Spoken to a few drivers at west ops, and things dont seem to be going to smooth.
EBA still going on, seems HR changes what the guys want and then it has to be re done and then there is a delay.
Deputy CP left in disgust at way management treating the guys, so this leaves a hole in C&T.
Talk that the company had Brought a high performance jet, to be partly funded by a mining company but will NOT be piloted by RFDS westops pilots (slap in the face to them) it will be based in Perth, run by a large RPT and Goverment contractor.RFDS doc's and nurses will be on it.
New Aviation manager, came from large RPT operator in Perth that blue and yellow tail on the dash's and EMB 120, seems to be showing his spots and is more concerned about the colour tips in his hair than the pilots, have said to some guys that the pilots are paid way to much.
Engineering guys not happy as private company overseeing the operation.
The new PC12 NG is breaking down alot, some pilots that fly it say the NG stand for "no good".
Bases operating with only 2 pilots, new pilots very low on hours and have to be right seated by training capt for up to 4 months or more.
3 new pilots joined the company only to leave with in 2 weeks of starting.
2 new pc 12 NG arriving over the next 6 months with the removal of then 2 king airs.
sound like a bit of a mess there, but that is what I have been told, can any WOPS guys confirm or deny.

[Wally Mk2]

'K200' interesting goings on over there by the sounds of things. I too have heard a few disquieting stories along the same lines as what you have heard. Good job the site is a RUMOUR site or they might as well close the doors over there!:}
Having the words 'breaking down a lot' in the same sentence as PC12 NG would make my knees shake, even more !:}
Shame about the jet situation, that alone could very well add a huge interest in keeping pilots from jumping ship. The jet would be easier to operate anyway so it can't be a skills problem.

At the end of the day youngish pilots coming along to the Western Ops section flying just a SE plane (no glamour in that) will soon get itchy feet when the majors start hiring again but a small jet in the system may make a few think twice. Foresight isn't always obvious in some larger Co's

Will be a very interesting year this year for all involved in contract work.

Good luck to the WA drivers over there, I does take a certain mindset to do the job of aeromed work & at times in the face of stupidity:bored:


Wmk2

[air med]

Hi Wally and to King air 200.
i dont know where king air got his info, not all true on points but close to the mark on other points.
true RFDS pilots not getting a gig on the jet.
true EBA still going, but the reps want to get it right this time before signing, that not a bad thing.
true low timers coming in to the system and yes will be flying the PC12 more, so yes will get icthy feet.
The new PC12 Ng have has a few problems, but this will sort it self out over time. The guys that do fly them say it is very complicated but bloody quick.
yes true 3 guys left before being checked to line, but there decision.
True one northern base only has 2 pilots in the system. But that will change over time.
Company looking at Fi/fo arrangement.
yes king airs will go eventually.
Iam not going to comment on the management side, could be true might be not

[lordofthewings]

Have heard rumours that the jet is going to be a 737 classic. Anyone heard anything similar or even maybe know

[Wally Mk2]

Tnxs 'air med' for the confirmation on most points already made.
FIFO, now that's interesting. When you think about it all medivac work is "FIFO" udderwise what's the point? Just kidding:ok:

I have my doubts that the jet will be anything like that size (B737) unless I am mistaken it's (the jet) meant to be used for medivac work, such a large airframe would be way out of whack in most ways.
More like a Lear35/36 or Westwind or Slowtation but we are talking about aviation here where the 'norm' can be silly!

Wmk2

[air med]

Hi Wally.
no lear in this, more like HS125 800/850, but not sure.
Do you remember a certain guy from EN, used to do air ambulance work when they used 402, he then left and went to Albury to fly a b200, for uncle bens, he is now in perth flying a 800, I think he will be crewing the rfds one but not sure.

[lordofthewings]

Heard Careflight moving into Perth.

[air med]

careflight have been in perth for a while now, using a westwing, it doesnt do much but sit at perth.

[Wally Mk2]

'air med' yes I do recall that person & yr probably right also with the jet being a hawker 800 or something like that. Lot more cabin space but slower than the sexiest jet around & it's over 40 yrs old in style, but what style it has too:ok:



Wmk2

[neville_nobody]

I would suggest that the RFDS pilots may not have the minimums for the jet op unless a few of them have flown bizjets before, however to not put them in as FO's is ridiculous.

[air med]

Hi nev
What would you call jet min's, there is aleast 6 guys maybe 8 guys with excess of 14,000hrs, one with C-130, machi,.
I think the Cp got endorsed on the Cessna 11 but not to sure..
But you are correct that the right hand seat would be a great way to start, but this will be not the case.
the thing which bugs all of us, is that originally it was going to be an aircraft that could do Single pilot ops, I think the medical management change all of that.

[kingair 200]

this jet thing is i believe completely being done by the management in the medical field,there telling the company what they need, I would be surprised if the CP was even informed or asked what would be the best aircraft to use..
But I am not sdure I dont work for the company but I have alot of good freinds there that do and they are not happy, with alot of things that is going on there at the moment.

[Towering Q]

can any WOPS guys confirm or deny

I think airmed has summed up the situation quite well.

[Wally Mk2]

Am not sure what it is with the jet thingy,(have to agree with air med) a lot of people seem to think you need to be a space shuttle driver just to fly a small corporate jet. I believe & always will that a jet is far simpler to handle/manage than a B200 flown as SP. I can recall the first time I got into a turbo prop after having ever flown PA31's etc & thought whoaaa nelly, this 250 kts is fast, real fast, now it's like I'm flying a C150!
In fact you could put any fairly confident pilot who has flown Chieftans/Barons etc into a simple 'slowtation' tell him the basic speeds & close the door to watch him/her fly at least a wide circuit.
The RFDS pilots would be perfect choices for a jet operation, Capt's as well. Any basic ATPL holder could easily handle a small jet, so lets not confuse the real issue here of why those poor buggers (RFDS drivers) aren't going to crew the jet, it's got a lot more to do with other influences who most likely are not directly involved in aviation as is often the case.
The size of this country obviously needs several med jets to compliment the turbo props for long distant tasks (there are a few now anyway in pvt hands doing med work) turbo props are too slow in some case but to put it simply we can't afford them unless they are funded by big business & the way our economy is going we might be lucky to see big business let us play with a 'van'!

I'd bet my next wage (well almost) that if the RFDS sections ALL sections had jets as well in their fleet along with new B200's you wouldn't see some guys breaking their necks to go fly a boring 'bus' on RPT.



Wmk2

[air med]

Hi Wal.
yes you have hit the nail on the head again, the Jet if westops get it,is because of the large scale that they cover.They need to do DBY, PH in one hit.
The current PC12/47 can do the range but the speed 220 to 235kts makes them a bit slow for the long haul.
When I was in EN with a corporate company they operated HS 125/700, did a few flights in it,it would not take long for our guys to get into the groove in the right hand seat, this would most likely be made easier on the long hauls they are planning to do.
Interesting times ahead, if what Kingair 200 says.

[morno]

220-235? :bored: They're pretty slow PC-12's, especially for a /47. We get 245-250 out of our /45's. I would have expected more 255-260kts out of them.

morno

[air med]

Nah, we dont get much more then 240kts out of ours running at 720tt.
But have heard the new NG is very very slippery

[Wally Mk2]

'morno' yr right am sure the PC12 is faster than that but I think what 'air med' might be trying to say is the average ground speed over a sector for planning purposes is more like the numbers he quoted. I used to fly a Lear35/36 even though it crusied at Mach 0.8 (say 475kts) on a good day we quoted/flight planned at around 400 kts. Even the Beech at say 260 kts doesn't get that especially on short sectors with low Co pwr settings (girl power:E), something we do here a lot, 35 mins average, can't get 260 kts down low.
As I said flying a small jet is a piece of cake, any switched on pilot could handle one after a few hrs, it's more the decisions that need to be made that where experience counts, not the actual handling of the machine.:)


Wmk2

[the wizard of auz]

Gee Wally, Must be carrying that extra engine around thats slowing ya down, :}:E

[Wally Mk2]

yr more of a stirer than I am 'wiz';) but I really don't care if the old Beech gets 180 kts as long as I have a SPARE:E At the end of the day I still get paid the same if I am crzing @180 kts or 475 kts:-)
The 'twin v the Single' thingy is a bit like the Ark that Noah built, did he put anything in there that was X by 1?? NO, everything in pairs TY:E
Wmk2:ok:

[pc12togo]

I love flying the good old 402 at 170kts. Your day always goes into paid overtime.

[bushy]

Are the RFDS and the police still the only PC12 operators in Australia?

[Jabawocky]

A nice Private one based at YRED


http://file035b.bebo.com/15/large/2007/09/09/07/4525920200a5504442908l.jpg

[air med]

There's a couple of private PC12's operating in WA.

[the wizard of auz]

I think from memory, there is a privately owned one down at Margret river.

[Stationair8]

Always a worry when the aviation manager is worried what colour tips he should put in his hair, next he will be sporting an ear ring or showing the boys his nipple ring!

Notice on their website the night requirements for night experience, is WA night time different to QLD or Victorian night time? Must be different blackness in the west to the east?

[Towering Q]

Yeah, it's much darker over here in the West.

[Horatio Leafblower]

I know the blackness in Kununurra was very different to what I grew up with in Sydney! :uhoh: :} :ok:

[pc12togo]

There is 2 doing charter in the east. VH PIL and i think the other is 00I, and some others doing mining work over there. An earth moving Co has just got one in SA. VH VAT.

[the wizard of auz]

PIL was the first PC 12 I ever flew. It was the demo pilots last name in reverse. :ok:
Was a very nice piece of equipment........... being brand new and all.

[morno]

Wiz, not sure what the rego is on that PIL anymore, but the new PIL is a PC-12NG. Very nice machine, :ok:.

morno

[the wizard of auz]

Ah, righto. I did suspect that had been changed on the original.

[Wally Mk2]

Is it just me or does it appear to others that the tail of the '12' is out of proportion as in looks too small?
We need jets in the fleet, then who would want to fly a plane that has links to a 'boat'!:E


Wmk2

[megle2]

Gee's Wal.
Thats 100 posts in barely 4 weeks.
Wal Mk 3 coming up soon!!!!!!!!!!!

[Howard Hughes]

99 of those on the PC-12/B200 debate on various threads...:E

[Howard Hughes]

It's a pity you can no longer have a signature on pprune, yours could have been something like 'B200 good, PC-12 naff'...:E

[max1]

I really enjoyed reading Flynn of the Outback.
Hope you sought out the problems.

[PPRuNeUser0161]

Wall's on the right rack, leave him alone.
PC-12's do the job fine, B200 even better!

SN

[Reverseflowkeroburna]

does it appear to others that the tail of the '12' is out of proportion as in looks too small?

I thought so from the minute I first saw it. The King Air on the other hand.........exactly how an aircraft should look. :ok:

Air med, you've confirmed some aspects of the Westops description, but where are the untruths in the story told? :hmm:

[air med]

being diplomatic not stupid

[pc12togo]

It was the demo pilots last name in reverse.

He now runs the show, and a dame good training Pilot.

[the wizard of auz]

yup, I am aware of that. was chatting to him last week actually. :ok:

[Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower]

Gee,

Lucky you guys are here, I thought the rego VH PIL might have had something to do with the fact that it was a Pilatus demo aircraft, geez, how stupid do I feel :\.

[goin'flyin]

LRT, don't feel stupid, PC12 Sno 231 was rego'd as VH-PIL well and truly before he became demo pilot (& subsequently CEO)... He might try to tell you different though :}

VH-PIL is now on PC12NG Sno 1007, and he only gets to fly it every now and then :ok:.......i'm lead to believe he prefers to sit down the back and be chauffeured around these days anyway........these boss type fella's

[the wizard of auz]

hey, I didn't say it was his doing, just an observation.
From what I hear, he prefers to be burning about in his flash car than playing captain these day. :E A far call from his days in southern X. :ok: