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pigboat
30th Dec 2008, 19:27
..As predicted by Professor Igor Panarin.

Read all about it. (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123051100709638419.html) :eek:

Oklahoma will become a part of the Texas Republic. :E

BlueWolf
30th Dec 2008, 19:41
So what do we do if the sky DOESN'T fall?

You know, if the dollar doesn't collapse, and the US doesn't fractionate, and if America IS still there to save the rest of the world from the effects of its own sloth, indolence, and stupidity, yet again?

What will the lefties and the apologists and all the other weaners find to whinge about then? More of the same?

:confused::ugh::hmm::bored::zzz:

God Bless the USA.

Signed, BlueWolf, well known Yankophile. Awaiting incoming.

Lon More
30th Dec 2008, 20:07
the effects of its own sloth, indolence, and stupidity,

unfortunately characteristics displayed by many of the citizens of the USA

Rainboe
30th Dec 2008, 20:15
The man's been smoking something! Bad trip! The US has been forged in adversity and trial. Even King George and the South kicked up a bit. It's come through slump and near defeat in the Pacific. Does he really think house prices falling and higher unemployment will cause division? Texas part of Mexico, Cal part of China? He is ill.

Perhaps he should study why the Soviet Union was an unsustainable business model and Reagan understood how to destroy it.....and did. A disintegrated USSR is no judge of a succesful economy. The US has simply to close its doors. Chinese and Japanese industry will collapse. They might run out of iPods and DVD players, but the US will still be happily eating and driving (on home grown oil) and watching the rest of the world starve in the biggest non-US worldwide slump in history! The world needs the US, make no mistake of it. If Russia vanished or was nuked today, would anyone even notice?

brickhistory
30th Dec 2008, 20:19
Lon: unfortunately characteristics displayed by many of the citizens of the USA

Lon, admittedly so. But surely you aren't intimating those are only American characteristics?

From the article:
Washington, D.C., and New York will be part of an "Atlantic America" that may join the European Union.

A. I will be moving and

B. I don't think the EU would take 'em. I mean, what about the EU headquarters ? Surely, either it or the UN would be redundant so one or the other could be closed?

V2-OMG!
30th Dec 2008, 20:33
Does this mean Govenor Tina Fey -- pardon me -- Sarah Palin is going to sell Alaska back to Professor Igor Panarin's Russia?

I suspect she`ll be asking for a pretty hefty price. As they say in real estate, it's LOCATION! LOCATION! LOCATION!

pigboat
30th Dec 2008, 20:53
Perhaps he should study why the Soviet Union was an unsustainable business model and Reagan understood how to destroy it.....and did. A disintegrated USSR is no judge of a succesful economy.

Rainboe I believe you have made a very valid observation. Under the Communists, there were many that were eager to emulate the USSR. I have yet to see any country that wants to be what the old Soviet Union has become.

Buster Hyman
30th Dec 2008, 20:55
You know, I thought it was an interesting theory right up to when he declares that California will come under Chinese control, Texas to Mexico etc.

After seeing the after effects of Katrina, his initial theory could hold some water.

pineridge
30th Dec 2008, 21:29
Lon More said.............

"Quote:
the effects of its own sloth, indolence, and stupidity,
unfortunately characteristics displayed by many of the citizens of the USA"

and the U.K., France, Italy, Germany, Norway, the Netherlands, Canada, Spain, Mexico, Sweden, Denmark, Egypt etc., etc., etc.................
Welcome to Planet Earth and a Happy New Year.

con-pilot
30th Dec 2008, 22:15
Well now, that sure is a real cute map in that article. I have an extremely hard time seeing Tennessee, North and South Carolina joining anything European. The same with New Hampshire and Vermont, a rather independent bunch of folks live there. Now Washington DC could join the EU, but I doubt anyone would notice.

As for Oklahoma becoming part Texas; shows he knows nothing of Texas or Oklahoma.

Loose rivets
30th Dec 2008, 23:07
Mmmmm...Tina Fey.



Or Sarah Palin, don't mind which really.:E

Lon More
30th Dec 2008, 23:14
and the U.K., France, Italy, Germany, Norway, the Netherlands, Canada, Spain, Mexico, Sweden, Denmark, Egypt etc., etc., etc

Couldn't agree more. However the topic subject was USA

Dushan
31st Dec 2008, 01:05
I have an extremely hard time seeing Tennessee, North and South Carolina joining anything European.

Only if they get to keep the 2nd amendment. Fat Chance!!

skydriller
31st Dec 2008, 03:18
If Russia vanished or was nuked today, would anyone even notice?

You should re-phrase that "...would the US notice". And i doubt they would notice. However with the energy currently coming out of Russia I would say that quite a few parts of Europe (especially eastern) and China would definitely notice it...

Russia is alredy using its energy suppilies as a political weapon.

Track Coastal
31st Dec 2008, 03:55
You know, if the dollar doesn't collapse, and the US doesn't fractionate, and if America IS still there to save the rest of the world from the effects of its own sloth, indolence, and stupidity, yet again?


In 2009, 50M-100M more unemployed worldwide and $triillions in honest business folk sent to the wall because of this administration may differ with such a ludicrous post. But...when ones head is buried in a warm cavity one doesn't realise that one's toes are cooling.

Numbers and data don't lie... Great Depression 2009 Follows $30 Trillion Deflation :: The Market Oracle :: Financial Markets Analysis & Forecasting Free Website (http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article7923.html)

Cheers and happy New Year to all. To those making some $ on the massive "Bushmade" opportunities in 09, remember to give generously to those countless others that are the victims through no fault of their own!

galaxy flyer
31st Dec 2008, 04:57
TC

While I am still employed, a check from you would most appreciated. Undoubtedly, in six months, the not-so-Great Depression will be termed a mere recession as we are delivered by The Messiah. The lunacy of you Obamabots is amazing. BTW, the free market system has NOT failed, despite your desperate desire for it to do so, in a blind desire to slime GWB. What failed is the US government, by overreaching its authority, by operating for years outside the US Constitution and for never-ending interference with free markets. The free markets, powered by free trade has raised many more millions than will possibly be unemployed. And are you suggesting it would have been better that they NEVER rose out poverty? Enuf, already

Lon More

I assume by slothful Americans, you mean the population that represents 4% of the world's, but produces over 26% of the world's product? The Americans that work more hours annually than any other country? The Americans that brought an end to WWII and the Cold War, freeing millions of previously imprisoned people? The Americans that have won the majority of the Nobel Prizes? THOSE AMERICANS, Lon?

Remember in the late '80s, the Japanese were publishing volumes on how they would pass America's economy due to their superior system and culture? How'd that work?

C-P

Evidently, the Professor never lived in America and heard about Baja Oklahoma?

It is more likely that Sarah Palin buys up Russia by 2010 than America goes the way he predicts. That would be sight, Putin laying prostrate before her. :ok:

GF, who will join Europe when they beat me to death with my empty Colt .45. I love to visit you all, but not live under EU government

arcniz
31st Dec 2008, 04:58
He predicts that economic, financial and demographic trends will provoke a political and social crisis in the U.S

This is not exactly News. The Americans (and their predecessors) have been enjoying one or another similar package of crisis factors since the early 1600's, and have thrived on it.

A little bit of adversity is just what the Amis need to get off their McBurger fatted butts, roll up sleeves, and put to work solving some of the larger problems in a serious way.

A few years back, when oil imports were at prices similar to what is seen today, (high 30$/bbl of crude), the US was exporting over $500 billion of exchange currency for purchases of gasoline and crude.

The trend now emerging is that some portion of all US oil imports will be be displaced by investing the equivalent purchase cost in funding serious technology for creating equivalent energy supplies from technological, agricultural and mineral domestic sources - thereby displacing increasing fractions of the US cost for imports with prosperity-inducing internal investment for technology and capital plant and with recurring internal cash expenditures for domestic-sourced energy.

Energy Conservation investment effects may be comparable in scale, further reducing capital export.

A few adjustments to the advertising levers and the massive appetites of the American consumer may be partly or greatly redirected to "Made in USA" products, rather than "expensive" imports.

A bit of pulling back in far-flung military activities might lop a couple hundred billion $$ off capital exports, without really changing the near-term results too much, other than that some parts of the world with small military budgets might have to up them in order to maintain their own security.

Without becoming isolationist - just by pulling in some oars - the US likely can rapidly and significantly reduce Federal deficits AND stimulate healthy internal economic activity. A flux reversal of trillion $ per annum is not out of reach, one imagines - with increasing prosperity for the citizens of the USA, due to higher production and retention of economic value within the domestic economy. Surely the UK and certain other close allies nations will not be disfavoured in this process - but may even benefit from broadened trade ties.

galaxy flyer
31st Dec 2008, 05:12
If you think this year was bad, check this (http://http://www.nypost.com/seven/12302008/postopinion/opedcolumnists/worst_year__not_by_a_long_shot_146444.htm) out.

GF

arcniz
31st Dec 2008, 05:16
If you think this year was bad, check this out.


no tickee linkee

galaxy flyer
31st Dec 2008, 05:25
Check out this map

http://strangemaps.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/350816052_0a392a0d28_o1.jpg

galaxy flyer
31st Dec 2008, 05:28
Here is the link (www.nypost.com/seven/12302008/postopinion/opedcolumnists/worst_year__not_by_a_long_shot_146444.htm)to worse years

GF

Track Coastal
31st Dec 2008, 05:37
While I am still employed, a check from you would most appreciated. Undoubtedly, in six months, the not-so-Great Depression will be termed a mere recession as we are delivered by The Messiah. The lunacy of you Obamabots is amazing. BTW, the free market system has NOT failed, despite your desperate desire for it to do so, in a blind desire to slime GWB. What failed is the US government, by overreaching its authority, by operating for years outside the US Constitution and for never-ending interference with free markets. The free markets, powered by free trade has raised many more millions than will possibly be unemployed. And are you suggesting it would have been better that they NEVER rose out poverty? Enuf, already

I'm not an Obama anything. He has Tim G as his Sec Treas. Tim the clown oversaw the packaging of AAA and CCC tranche mortgages into the SAME insidious Credit Default Swap packages. Nothing will change.

Obama is just a run of the mill centre rightist with a crook as his Treas Sec. Better than another outright thieving administration.

Whilst CDS' exist nothing will change.

Add 5 years to the depression and some low hanging fruit will buy what I sell. Or, will sell in desperation and I'll buy.

UNTIL the American on the street makes a stand? Business as usual*.

Watch the movie 'Idiocracy'.

*Its reputed that 10,000 Americans are losing their jobs a day. DENIAL is not a river in Africa.

Happy New Year

Track Coastal
31st Dec 2008, 05:44
Its all good on DE -NIAL in Egypt...

Ariz. police say they are prepared as War College warns military must prep for unrest; IMF warns of economic riots - Phoenix Business Journal: (http://phoenix.bizjournals.com/phoenix/stories/2008/12/15/daily34.html)

Fruity Tones
31st Dec 2008, 10:14
Dear me, Mr Coastal, you really are a nasty piece of work.

Perhaps in 2009 you will choose to vomit your poison on some other nation than the United States?

tony draper
31st Dec 2008, 10:21
Wish you Cousins would stop lumping us in wi that feckin Europe place.:suspect::rolleyes:

TRC
31st Dec 2008, 10:57
galaxy flyer

I missed the point of your map. What is it supposed to represent?

Lon More
31st Dec 2008, 11:34
What is it supposed to represent

Where 90% of Ammuricans think those states are? ( If their knowledge of world geography is as good as his on history )

TRC
31st Dec 2008, 11:41
Where 90% of Ammuricans think those states are?


Er.......?

BombayDuck
31st Dec 2008, 11:41
TRC if I remember right, it is a map showing which country the economy of that state is closest to in terms of absolute value. It is a dated image, though, I remember seeing it a couple of years ago.

Fruity Tones - welcome to the forum. Perhaps you will stay here long enough before passing judgement on the inclinations of people who have been here for a while? I doubt.

corsair
31st Dec 2008, 11:50
I have one answer to that Russian.

http://tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:hds2iEuQuXhAuM:http://www.albanyaerialphotos.com/US%2520Flag.jpg

That man doesn't understand America or Americans at all.

That flag is not simply a piece of coloured cloth. It is the very symbol of America. There may be trouble in the offing but I can't see them losing their pride in being American.

To suggest that parts of the US would ally itself with Mexico or Europe is laughable. The guy's a joke.

TRC
31st Dec 2008, 12:02
B D

Yes, I've found it now. Dated Jan 2007 so it's not that old.

It apparently shows American states as world GDPs.

So, according to that map, Kentucky has the same GDP as Saudi Arabia, and Philadelphia equal to Russia.

WTF?

brickhistory
31st Dec 2008, 12:02
Lon:Where 90% of Ammuricans think those states are? ( If their knowledge of world geography is as good as his on history )

Too obvious. You usually are better than this.

However, it is very interesting that despite the American lack of geographical knowledge, everyone else, everywhere else, knows who and where the United States is?


----------------------------------------------------------------------


Mr. Draper, apologies for the EU lumping. Your country, sir, is at great risk of becoming such.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Judging by the reactions, I see TC is still his usual charming self. Fortunately, I saved myself the bother of having to read his spews.

I hope his New Year is better. My money (and, apparently, most of the world's) is still on the US for the win.

Scrubbed
31st Dec 2008, 12:43
THOSE AMERICANS, Lon?

No, one rathers suspects it is these Americans to whom he refers:

http://www.ecollo.com/image.axd?picture=FatMcDonaldsFinalVersion.jpg

http://thestockmasters.com/files/u3/fat_Joe_KFC.jpg

http://www.portfolio.com/images/feeds/blogs/02-obesity-large.jpg

http://www.michaelmooreisfat.com/images/pizza.jpg

I think the last one might be Michael Moore before he did "Sicko"... Okay it might be PSed.

CargoMatatu
31st Dec 2008, 12:44
Hey, Drapes; on which geographical continental shelf does the U of K stand?

Just because it behaves like the fifty-first state doesn't mean it actually is! :}

chuks
31st Dec 2008, 12:50
What is it with some Jet Blasters anyway? Things are bad so they have to cite some Russian lunatic who thinks the troubles of the U.S.A. are terminal, as if this proves something.

I have a prediction myself: The Soviet Union shall collapse completely! Wait... something coming in on the Psychic Hotline... What? It already happened? Imagine that!

Okay, then, umm: Cuba is going to slide into terminal decline, depending on the paltry earnings of street musicians and unlicensed whores just to keep barely afloat. How about that one?

I never worked for the KGB or FSI or whatever, just the ASA, so what do I know anyway? But, this is Jet Blast.

Hang in there with your speculations, financial and otherwise, TC. I hope you get exactly what you deserve from all your efforts. Mwah!

Buster Hyman
31st Dec 2008, 14:58
Okay, full points to everyone who got a dig in at the USA & to those who patriotically defended her...now, aside from what I believe is rather bizarre about this prediction (China, Mexico etc) could a financial calamity cause such a fracture to the USA? (or any other Western democracy for that matter)

Perhaps, if there was civil unrest/war, it would be a military response and therefore, totally unlike the humanitarian response like Katrina.

brickhistory
31st Dec 2008, 15:05
Buster,

I believe the answer is "no." Any such calamity would no doubt take the other nations of the world, Russia included, down the drain as well. Those countries would have their hands full trying to keep their own house from splitting, never mind grabbing more.

For example, should the US implode, can you realistically imagine Mexico being able to absorb California? As California is itself broke at present (estimated $42B budget shortfall expected), how could it form the heart of anything?

Russia taking Alaska again? One word, "Wolverines!"

Nope, for better or worse, should the US go, the rest of the world will be joining us in the dustbin.

Funny how that wasn't the case when Russia went and the Soviet Union arose, then fell, and presto, it's Russia again.

Buster Hyman
31st Dec 2008, 15:15
Yes Brick, I was trying to exclude that part of it as I just cannot see any scenario where foreign nations would take a slice of the States.

The part I am interested in is whether "rich" States would be tempted to withold Federal funds? (I am not an avid viewer of American Politics and am seeking enlightenment)

The only comparison here is if WA, with all of it's mineral wealth, decided to "go it alone" (which I believe has been mulled around once or twice). I doubt it would (a) resort to conflict, (b) actually happen, or (c) be noticed by anyone anyway. There are poorer parts of Oz, but no "poor States" as he puts it. Tasmania would be closest to that, but they're just freaks like the Queenslanders...couldn't organise a root in an orgy!:rolleyes:

Track Coastal
31st Dec 2008, 16:11
Dear me, Mr Coastal, you really are a nasty piece of work.

Perhaps in 2009 you will choose to vomit your poison on some other nation than the United States?

I'm narky on the current administration for doing nothing while a select few rooted the Global Financial system with no oversight (where did the first $350B TARP go??) NOT the USA per se. Nice country, has some nice people (Galaxy Flyer, West Coast etc come to mind).

Why am I bothering?

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg155/sproketusmaximus/striphandlerashx-1.gif

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r165/hiredgoonadl/modern_capitalism.jpg

Captain Speedbird
31st Dec 2008, 16:26
Scrubbed, re the first photo. You would, wouldn't you......

Track Coastal
31st Dec 2008, 17:01
Sorry mate.

Cancel the 250KTS below 10,000 next time your into Oz???:ok:

Debt.

Its about debt; Until we save 20% of our mortgages; Live within our means (lets say 10% of our incomes in cash at the bank) and spend the remainder its an endless bubble.

Imagine a household that saves 10% of its income, pays its mortgage (<80% of total value), and spends the remainder.

Saving our way is not how the system is set up. Until we do, the pain of this depression will last longer.

As fruity tones infers, I may be just a mean ass fool.*

*Who is waiting for the next leg down in the Dow. If I make at least $20K on the next leg down I'll toast you Fruity.

brickhistory
31st Dec 2008, 17:13
Ah, Buster, I understand now.

No, I don't believe such schisms would occur here (again as was tried 1861-1865).

Philosophically, there is a huge divide between the coasts and the heartland as evidenced by "Red States" and "Blue States." Materially, not so much.

Practically, the issue of state secession is moot except for a few fringe groups. The largesse and power of the federal government will prevent any such splits. Like it or not, the central government has assumed primacy.

The US Founding Fathers would not recognize their child today.


Just finished an interesting book, "Our First Revolution: The Remarkable British Upheaval that Inspired America's Founding Fathers."

It's about the replacement of the Stuarts with William of Orange - the events leading up to and the shaping of and by Parliament to replace James II with the Dutch gent.

Perhaps both our nations could revisit history to learn a current lesson?

Track Coastal
31st Dec 2008, 17:20
I have American kin.

You talk Bankers destroying their way of life...no resposnse (or that is the way it is).

You talk Muslim schools...Kapow!!! (Jewish schools are OK).

No breakup of the the USA, they don't give-a-f*ck as long they (we) can buy some Chinese manufatcured sh*t from a discount store.

Just bought a Compaq/HP laptop...made in a Chinese province that I can't pick on the globe. Google did

galaxy flyer
31st Dec 2008, 18:13
TRC

Yes, it does represent how each state's gross product equate to foreign nation's GDP. So, when countries like Belgium or France start imploding, I'll believe it is possible for the US to do so. BTW, most European countries have internal divisions that make America's divisions look like an argument at a Bake Sale. Anyone remember ETA in Spain, Red Army Faction and its fellows in Germany and Italy, Algerian Islamic riots in France, Wallons vs. Flemish in Belgium, the low-grade war in N.I. or Scottish independence. The list goes on.

Also, the arrow that you mistakenly attributed to Philadelphia is really at New Jersey.

TC

What do you lose on the next leg up?? I have NO, nada, zero, zilch debt. But how many of us could live without debt? Also, zero, nada. Debt is NOT the problem-government creating fiat money is, as is government's mismanagement of debt. I agree, the US is facing a monumental financial wall, but GOVERNMENT caused it, not Americans. Government, since FDR, has been promising to care of us forever, cradle to grave. It won't happen, as Jefferson said, (paraphasing) "any government capable of giving us everything has the power to take it all away". We need to return to a greater degree of self-reliance and throw off the shackles of Uncle Sugar. Unfortunately, GWB and The Messiah aren't about to lead us there.

GF

arcniz
31st Dec 2008, 19:56
Everyone on the planet seems to be concerned about changing finances this year, but some perspective is appropriate in regard to screaming headlines from them who earn by the word:

For example, should the US implode, can you realistically imagine Mexico being able to absorb California? As California is itself broke at present (estimated $42B budget shortfall expected), how could it form the heart of anything?

(the following is very approximate, but derived with some reference to the complex actual facts... which are changing somewhat each day)

California's State Government disbursed some $145 billion during the 2007-08 fiscal year, drawing - against counsel - on "reserves" set aside for contingencies and using some accounting tricks to cover a gap between expenditures and revenues of $12 to $15 billion. That was a "good" year where the State revenues were allegedly bolstered by strong economic activity and "growth". A cycle of spending without providing for offsetting revenue had actually begun in the late 90's. Growth of this caused Governor Gray Davis to be voted out of office in 2003 by a public referendum to recall him - mostly due to the fiscal intemperance of a Democrat Governor and a Democrat-controlled legislature dipping too much in the honey pot of public spending without offsetting taxation. (Point to this remark is that the state has long-standing unresolved political issues at the highest levels about taxing enough to cover authorised spending vs spending only what is paid for by actual revenues.)

The $42B deficit number being tossed about for California is a combination of downturn-caused incremental deficits on the existing authorised expenditures for the Oct 2008- Sept 2009 budget (which really had a $12 billion deficit buried in it, covered by fiscal tricks that have become impossible due to the global economic downturn) plus projected deficits for the 2009-2010 budget. Most observers feel that Governor Schwarzenegger has chosen to publicise the larger numbers projected in an effort to achieve a practical solution, rather than to minimise the forecast bad news as other politicians have tended to do.

So - a quick sketch, using status-quo numbers, has the state of California spending about $300 billion over two years and collecting roughly $258 billion in revenues under existing laws and regulations. The State is required, by practical constraints, to "balance" its budgets over the long term, so spending must decrease or taxing must increase to bridge the gap. Neither option is desirable from all points of view, but the situation is very far removed from the State being "broke". Some will complain mightily, but the problem can and will be solved by the stroke of a pen.

Reductions in State expenditures are certainly possible, as are additional taxes. For example. A $1.00 increase in the current $0.18 tax on gasoline would produce around $20 billion for the period of interest, and would completely cover the deficit if extended to diesel fuel, with net revenue surplus in subsequent years. For gasoline that would raise the price to appx. $2.75/US gal at the pump. As recently as four months ago the "OPEC tax" had gasoline costing over $4 at the pump in California, so the under $3 cost would likely be quite bearable and would certainly assist conservation and environmental agendas.

California's GDP for 2007 was somewhere around $1.8 trillion, roughly comparable to France. Mexico's GDP for 2007 was approx $1.2 trillion. Although it is possible that California may eventually contain more Mexicans than does Mexico, a takeover of sovereignty by Mexico seems improbable on various grounds.

brickhistory
31st Dec 2008, 21:08
So, California's not broke?



That changes everything; the end of the US is nigh...

Buster Hyman
31st Dec 2008, 23:32
Thanks Brick. Similar to here in a way. The States did have all the power but, slowly over time, they have given up most of this to the Commonwealth (Federal) Government.

One glaring difference between us (IMHO) is your National Guard. We have reservists, but no "cool" toys for our guys & girls (although training would be up to spec). Your National Guard has always been a curiosity for me, as in, how well equipped & who their Masters are.

Cheers.:ok:

brickhistory
31st Dec 2008, 23:48
US Army and Air National Guard is controlled by each state's governor when not federalized.

That way each state has a force for disaster relief and, rarely, civil disturbance - Watts Riots, Kent State from years past - Hurricane Katrina most recently.

That money comes from the state's coffers (although indirectly from Washington, DC)

When federalized, the money for operations comes from Uncle Sam as does the chain of command. Equipment budget is largely via Washington, DC as well as part of a, in theory at least, larger strategy of needs/capabilities.

A direct result of Vietnam was the shifting of many combat support duties out of the active forces into the Guard/Reserves so that should future operations occur, the entire nation has to be involved, unlike Vietnam where it was, primarily, an active duty show.

That philosophy has come back to haunt the current Administration with numerous Guard units being activated repeatedly for long periods of time. As most of them left active duty for other pursuits, those long term, repeated activations have played havoc with both individual lives and deployment schedules.

Iraq was/is not a direct threat to the US as the old Cold War Soviet threat was envisioned. Being sent for 15 month tours when running a business would tend to inhibit service.

I don't believe you'd see California Guard fighting, say, Oregon's Guard.

arcniz
1st Jan 2009, 01:08
I don't believe you'd see California Guard fighting, say, Oregon's Guard.

Naa. If there were real issues, they'd settle it with arm-wrestling or football.

tony draper
1st Jan 2009, 01:23
Hmmm, this holds promise,perhaps one could restore the Draper family fortune by selling powder and ball to both sides in the manner we did during the first scuffle betwixt the states.
:E

arcniz
1st Jan 2009, 02:23
Dr. Draper avers
Hmmm, this holds promise,perhaps one could restore the Draper family fortune by selling powder and ball to both sides in the manner we did during the first scuffle betwixt the states.


Drapers might have a run for their money from Remingtons and Du Ponts.

galaxy flyer
1st Jan 2009, 04:01
Well, back to the topic, maybe the Russian had some insight....

In NY, Caroline Kennedy is trying to trade her name for Hilary's Senate seat. Evidently, family dreams of Dynasty didn't die on Chappaquidick. She has been singularly unimpressive, makes Sarah Palin look erudite.

In Delaware, the Governor has appointed a seat-warmer so Biden's son can complete his tour in Iraq, come home and be anointed Senator.

In Colorado, Senator Salazar has taken the Sec of Interior post, so the Governor, beholding to Salazar is appointing Representative Salazar (brother, if you are following) to replace him as CO's Senator.

In Illinois, the corrupt Governor has appointed a black man, who had retired from politics, to full BHO's empty seat. No jokes about how it was empty when Obama filled it. Blago defied his own party, in state and in the Senate in making the appointment. Every Dem senator has signed a strongly worded letter telling Blago NOT to appoint a replacement. What did the Governor do, doubled down and had Bobby Rush, ex-black Panther, talk about not "lynching" the appointment of the only black man to the Senate. Racism in spades.

In New Jersey, Democrat Jon Corzine is governing a state, for all intents and purposes, bankrupt. Public unions are killing the economy.

So, is the Russian right, just has the wrong facts? If this is "hope and change", we are in for a wild four years

GF

Buster Hyman
1st Jan 2009, 04:29
Thanks BH & GF...interesting insights abound when you don't have to defend against snipers.:ok:

Vee1Kut
1st Jan 2009, 10:37
Things will be fine..

AMF
2nd Jan 2009, 07:02
It's fun thinking about all the sad, pathetic losers out there who waste their time, energy, and lives thinking about and hoping-for the demise of the US, and of their great disappointment while lying on their deathbeds when they realize it never came to pass. The US adapts and lives on..meanwhile, their whining and ignorant-fringe predictions they've dredged-up to support their own preconceived notions come to nothing more than the crap-of-the-moment sewage it is.

It's truly pathetic yet incredibly funny all at the same time to think they've wasted their very lives hoping-for and believing such nonsense.

Earl
2nd Jan 2009, 07:36
I don't know what this Russian is smoking but must be some cheap drugs.
Breakup of the USA?
We Carolina folks are having a good laugh on this one.
Have another Vodka Ruski.

chuks
2nd Jan 2009, 10:22
The U.S.A. has some very obvious weaknesses but I just do not see anything bad happening that is even close to what this Russian is seeing. Put it down to low-budget vodka perhaps.

Perhaps we shall instead experience some positive rebound with a Messiah for Prez, Bush and his creepy crowd shuffled off-stage for at least 4 years and probably longer, a withdrawal from Iraq, cheap fuel for a while and a few other things to be happy about. More troubles shall come, sure but I think we can manage.

Watch this space for the usual keening from the usual suspects that should tell we Yanks just what is going wrong with our country. I need that, I really do, especially coming from a lot we cast off almost 250 years ago and seem to have done okay without since. Or am I missing something here?

Today's German paper has Fidel Castro summoning the Cuban people to engage in total war against the United States. I didn't bother to read the details, though.

Good gravy! Do you suppose the Cubans kept back a few nukes from 1962? Or are they going to rig an enormous rubber band and flatten Key West with old "Chebbies"?

Rainboe
2nd Jan 2009, 10:36
It's sad daft reports like this can't be laughed out without the weird European anti-American brigade (and believe it or not, they are in an extreme minority. They just make a lot of noise!) coming out of the woodwork and trying to take it all so seriously. Instead of finding it funny and totally incredibly daft and silly, they try and take reports like this seriously. Break up of the US? Roll another Dude!
We all know deep down since US foreign policy became active in the early 40s, the US has been the guiding light for democracy. I know Russian soldiers would have been standing in every capital in Europe anytime since 1945 but for the US. I grew up under the protection of an US umbrella of freedom and democracy because Europe has never been in a position to protect itself from the East since 1945, and like most sane, sensible Europeans (apart from the youngsters in school who aren't even taught history), I have no intention of forgetting that.
So Yankee, don't go home! And don't take offence from these drug heads and dafties who latch on to ridiculous 'news' like this. We really like Orlando and hate borsht. When the US breaks up, the rest of the world will be in the Stone Ages again!

chuks
2nd Jan 2009, 11:26
Isn't it really more likely that some of the founding principles should continue without the U.S.A. itself necessarily keeping its hegemony intact?

You could argue that we have built upon principles taken over from Great Britain and that this, plus fortunate circumstances, has accounted for much of our success. In time I see that success fading as it always seems to do but I hope for some sort of soft landing as other nations take on some of the same ideals and continue to build upon them.

Any student of history must draw some conclusions from the Romans, particularly. Just imagine trying to get a hearing for the idea of a world without the Roman Empire around the year 1 C.E., assuming you didn't find yourself the centre of attention up there on your own personal cross for such an heretical notion. Yet here and now we have a world without the Roman Empire. Well, we do and we don't, eh? Traces of it are everywhere so that it is still with us in some sense.

The biggest problem we have had recently, I think, is the foolish idea that we can bin American ideals and just go for the raw, military power, bending Johnny Foreigner to our will as you lot used to when it was Martini-Henrys against pointed sticks. I think we need to retreat from seeking almost exclusively military solutions to go back to fighting things out in the marketplace of ideals, assuming we can even find our way back.

I think one of the biggest challenges over the next few decades will be to try and infect the Russians and the Chinese with the bacillus of democracy, however you choose to define "democracy." It might be that we can use Cuba as some sort of little laboratory experiment for this, which is probably exactly what Fidel is worried about!

I think many of the autocrats in these lands blighted by Communism very much need the enmity of the U.S.A. as a guarantee of their legitimacy. For them Obama is far worse than McCain.

In the same way, some of the knee-jerk, anti-U.S. pissants you find here certainly do not want to see things change. How shall they sustain their delusions of adequacy without GWB as our standard?