Job prospects / employer sentiment

[DanArcher]

G'day Guys & Gals

Primarily question for those of you up north, has there been much talk within your companies (primarily those up north) regarding employment? Specifically putting on new inexperienced pilots for the upcoming dry season?

This question has probably been asked a thousand times already but being down here in Sydney all one hears is talk of the end of the world approaching! Esp. the Australian with headlines like 'Tourism heads for free fall as Japan visitors down 30pc'

[Hasselhof]

down here in Sydney all one hears is talk of the end of the world approaching!

Its because people are idiots with very short memories.

There are jobs up here, can think of three companies in the Top End that take low timers that will be / are looking, and one other that takes more experienced guys that are looking. Its all the usual suspects so just call them all up and ask. Better still, leave Sydney, get up here and go for it.

:ok: Good luck

[framer]

Get up there Dan!! Stop talking about it/thinking about it/posting about it, get up there. You'l get a job if you decide to get a job. PS how did the CPL test go?

[MyNameIsIs]

Load up your car and do an all stops trip to somewhere Darwin way, maybe a little east or west... up to you!

I did something similar but up the east coast. Loved it- and got a job at the end of it too! No real hassles and it didn't take too long to land a gig either.

[Mr. Hat]

One things for sure you wont get a job if you stay in Sydney.

Go back a few years and the word was "there are at least 10-15 pilots that have been waiting here for 2 years so don't bother". I still went up anyway.

In aviation there will be many many people that will try to discourage you during your journey. These people are what i refer to as "w@nkers". They'll tell you there are no jobs or that you are "no good". Ignore them. There is a particularly high density of them at the ga level but don't worry you'll find them at the jet level as well.

Listen to Hasselhoff he's up there doing it now.

[pylet]

Top End operators that employ low timers (200-300hrs), right here on a silver platter:

Broome:
King Leopold Air
Broome Aviation
Broome Air Services (usually more than min exp)

Darwin/Kakadu:
Air Frontier
Kakadu Air
Chartair (usually more than min exp)
Australasian Jet (usually more than min exp)
CSR? (computer company out of Darwin with aircraft ops for employee transports around communitess)

Various operators in Halls Creek, Wyndham, and Fitzroy Crossing that may no longer operate or do so under a new title, but worth a call in to if driving by.

As said many times over: Calling and sending a resume to these places means ****e. By all means to it, but follow it up in person. Otherwise you'll be waiting by the phone for a long while! Save some cash, get up there, find a town you like, settle in, and drop into the operators every week. That's the formula that has worked for decades and for 99% of the GA pilots I know.
All the best to thise heading up in early '09, by all means enjoy it, and I hope you land the first job asap. Many fond memories!

[Hasselhof]

Darwin/Kakadu:
Air Frontier
Kakadu Air
Chartair (usually more than min exp)
Australasian Jet (usually more than min exp)
CSR? (computer company out of Darwin with aircraft ops for employee transports around communitess)

Thanks, that saves me some time.
Few corrections though

AusJet Darwin is no more
Chartair will take low hour guys these days but require a MECIR
Its CSG not CSR and they have an Alice base too
There is also DirectAir, Barrier and AV8 in Darwin and Katherine Aviation in Katherine (plus a whole swag of bush bases). Also, don't forget Gunbalanya Air Charter at Oenpelli , Maningrida Progress Association, AAA Air Charter at Jabiru and Lajumanu Air. I even heard Vincents have taken some low time guys of late.

Save some cash, get up there, find a town you like, settle in, and drop into the operators every week.
Amen

Last week and this week are probably the quietest two weeks of the year but things will be ramping up quickly into the new year. As for the ones I've heard are looking at new drivers ready for the start of the dry.... I'll give you a hint, they're all in the above list :p (And it isn't Ausjet)

[DanArcher]

Get up there Dan!! Stop talking about it/thinking about it/posting about it, get up there. You'l get a job if you decide to get a job. PS how did the CPL test go?

Bloody Sydney weather! need I say more? ;) hopefully will have another crack at getting it done early Jan

no need for encouragement!! Darwin was home before heading to this god forsaken place! :ugh: :mad: :}

[fuelcapsOFF]

Darwin was your home? My sincere apologies!

[DanArcher]

I'd take Darwhine any day over Skidney! :p

[gettin' there]

Amen to that!!! :D

[Quag_mire]

Same again, get up there and knock on doors. I got a start on the second door. :cool:

[Mr. Hat]

I got a start on the 30th door...:eek:

[Hasselhof]

I got a start on the 30th door... :eek:

Yeah, and it would also have been at least the 20th time on that door too. Ahh, those were the days :p The good news its its much easier now, this time round it was the first door that paid off :ok:

[Wally Mk2]

hey guys I enjoy reading posts/threads with this subject matter, makes me feel young even if whilst I am on the blody puter:)
Wish I was 30 yrs younger:sad:
Out of curiosity how do you guys afford accommodation up there in Broome whilst flying for the small outfits & I assume getting paid little? I hear it's very expensive these days?
Good to see that teh Aussie determination i alive & well amongst you young lot:ok:

Keep the posts comin', I can close my eyes & dream of far away places flying a & dare I say it SE plane:ok:


Wmk2

[the wizard of auz]

It is outrageously expensive. I head up there every now and then to do a little relief flying for a company, and certainly couldnt manage on the money except that my folks live up there. Mmmmmmmmm gotta love home cooking. :D

[Green gorilla]

Should try Hedland and Karratha rents around the 500 to 800 range anything that is good starts around 1200.

[sundance222]

As another young guy about to head up north, I must say I lap up every bit of advice written here. So thanks for all of the input, certainly helps to have a bit of a plan for the big move.

Save some cash, get up there, find a town you like, settle in, and drop into the operators every week. I get the idea of knocking on doors, but how to you get to see all of the companies? If I choose say Broome, then I only can visit a few. All of the other operators in small communities I can't visit. Or do the operators who have bases in small towns have a base in the big towns too such as Broome or Darwin?

[gettin' there]

Should try Hedland and Karratha rents around the 500 to 800 range anything that is good starts around 1200.



So what happens with accomodation for pilots in places like that? 35 "pilots" all shack up together so collectively they can afford to rent a 3 bedroom fibro shack and fight over who gets the toilet floor?

hmmmm looks like wherever I end up might end up with another bloke fighting for a spot on the park bench:eek:


As another young guy about to head up north, I must say I lap up every bit of advice written here. So thanks for all of the input, certainly helps to have a bit of a plan for the big move.


I'll fight ya for the last bed in the backpackers in Broome:) :E

As said above, keep the advice coming. :ok:

[FloRider]

Or just pack the swag! :ok:

[DanArcher]

or the station wagon with the mattress in the back & home sweet home hanging off the tail gate :\

[Hasselhof]

First time I went to Darwin looking for flying work was back when the Sydney olympics were on. By the time I rolled into town I had half a tank of petrol, $50 cash, $.50 ish in my bank account and a couple of hundred dollars of debt on my credit card. Had enough for a few days camp site rental and food before the $$$ ran out so I went and got a job doing anything I could (in this case pumping petrol at the Ampol across from the airport) as quick as I could. Anyway, new job was going great... just had to wait to get my first pay cheque. Ended up running out of money for my campsite with two days to go before pay day so I packed up the tent and drove to the airport. Parking was still free at that stage and I ended up spending two nights on the floor of the terminal (ah yeah, aircon) with a couple of backpackers that were stuck in a similar situation as myself. The security guards were awesome (pre 9/11) and actually brought us coffee one morning. Luckily I was able to find a share house on the same day I got paid so had a real bed to sleep in before too long.

When there is a will there is a way I guess :ok:

There has to be a million "what I did to get my first job" stories out there... lets hear some :}

[ROH111]

Would someone who applied without being up north get a looking at? Or would they be able to atleast be told that they can have an interview and therefore head up north? Or does one actually HAVE to be at the doorstep?

Yes I know that you're all going to say, you HAVE to be there to get the job, but if you had some experience albeit not much, could someone atleast t-up an interview?

Cheers! :ok:

[Wildduke]

mate, the best way to do it in my opinion, is to head up to Darwin. If you have your own vehicle drive it up. You can pickup backpackers that will be willing to share fuel money with you from the youth hostel near you. Speak to every operator in Darwin. There are about 10 most want some wet season experience or time on 200 series aircraft, but you might be lucky. Then head south to Kathrine and west to Kununurra. There are a couple of tour operators there. They all start employing around the middle of January onwards, and generally its first come first served. There is also a lot of non flying work in these towns too so that your bank balance doesn't go into the red too much. If no joy there, you can continue to Broome via Halls Creek, and Fitsroy crossing. Finally if you still cant find a job (which I gotta say, you'd be pretty unlucky) then you could always head down the west coast. But if you have a good attitude, and arrive at the right time (Jan-Mar), you should be successful.

If you dont have a vehicle, you could always fly to Darwin and catch the greyhound bus from Darwin to Kununurra, halls creek, Fitsroy and Broome.

If you want to get some time on a C210, you can contact Brian Carpenter at Carpenter Aviation in Caboolture, QLD. The best guy and nice place to fly, but to be honest with you, you shouldn't really need it to get your first job.

DONT wear your flying shirt to your interview. Nice clean, ironed, business type shirt and a pair of pants and shoes is the perfect attire for your first meeting with the Chief Pilot. You might be asked if you would be willing to do office duties/hangar work for a year. If you want the job ACCEPT!!! You wont do a year of duties before you fly, sometimes its a test question to see if you've got the right attitude and sometimes, its 'cause there isn't enough flying at the time to put you on, so to keep you busy and justify your employment they give you other duties.

You HAVE to come up North to get they job. Unless you have F*#k load of expereince, you will NOT get hired over the phone. Leaving the comforts of the city and arriving at your future employers door step shows that you have the right attitude. When you dont have experience, attitude is the only bench mark to separate individual applicants.

Best of luck to you! :ok:

[Led Zep]

I wouldn't say you won't get hired over the phone for your first job, because I did and I can count a couple more who were too. :ok:
It is just extremely rare.

[ROH111]

That all makes perfect sense to me.

However, the question was not about getting hired, but more so about getting just an interview where they say to you, "sounding good on paper, how about a trip up here for a face to face?"

Cheers!!

[Wildduke]

Well, I can only speak from experience. I had 211Hrs total time with no work experience or time on 200 series aircraft. Almost every chief pilot that I managed to speak to told me to make the trip up and meet with them face to face. So to answer your question, yes there is a likelyhood that you will be asked to come up and meet with them. They question is however, what are you looking for? An invitation for an interview or a job. If your goal is the latter, then you have to head up north.

[Hasselhof]

I've received a few PMs and noticed a few posts on this thread regarding guys heading up here to the top end over the next few weeks in the pursuit of work... word of warning... it appears that the Barkly Highway between QLD and the NT has basically been washed away and its going to take at least three weeks (http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/01/06/2460043.htm) for them to fix it. If you were planning on coming up that way.... don't, you won't get through.

http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200901/r328235_1475547.jpg

Image blatantly stolen from the ABC News website

[Chadzat]

WOW. Thats quite a bit of rain. Seems this is the 'reverse' of what they were complaining about SW of Isa in the 07/08 'dry wet season'!!

[Gearup2]

Kakadu Air any info?

Pay- hrly rate/salary ect?
Aircraft condition?
Working environment /conditions - good, fair ect?
Is accommodation provided?
How many staff?
Is there any progression - I understand they only operate SE aircraft now?
Is the bulk of their work charter? Or a few freight runs ect?

Feel free to PM me if you prefer:ok:

[DanArcher]

Although others would have better insight, their crust is the senic flights around kakadu, when I was last there they a few Airvans & a 206. Airvans all were pretty nice not being that old & 206 well it was a 206.....

[ResumeOwnNav]

Kakadu Air fly mainly scenics which is what they use all their Airvans for. Which are relatively new and hence very good condition. They have a couple (I believe) C207s, which they use a lot in the wet shipping all the freight to Oenpelli as the road closes.

There is an ex-Skytrans C310 always at JAB lately and I did see the CP in it not long back, have heard rumours they will be utilising it, not sure doing what?

[captaintunedog777]

Do not pay for 210 time. Widuke u aren't that Carpenter guy. Cessna, Piper or Beechcraft. 3 circuits and a 2 hour of ICUS should just about do it.

[Wildduke]

no I'm not Brian, the only reason I mentioned it is because there are some operators here that require time in the 210 and there are low hour guys looking for one for hire on the east coast.

[ausflyer]

Did anyone think to look over the AFAP job site as of today?

[ditchin]

Gday everyone,

I've just recently completed my CPL with only 190 hours. I am just looking for some insight into the current climate for fresh CPL's going up north.

My plan is to send out resume's and make follow up phone calls to call the companies I'm aware that take on fresh CPL's (Katherine Aviation, Kakadu Air, Gunbalunya, AAA, King Leo's, Slingair, Alligator etc) before packing the car and making the drive in a couple of weeks time up from Melbourne.

With the current economic situation, I can't help but feel pretty negative about my chances of employment at the moment. I believe the last recession was in 1990-1991, when I was all of 5 years old, so my experiences of these times are zero.

I've read in previous post's on the topic that GA is somewhat recession proof as a lot of the flying revolves around Government aid and other "essentials". But with all of the majors and regionals recruitment freezes at the moment, I could only imagine that this must filter through into GA. Also, with a lot of first CPL jobs being involved in tourism, this too I imagine, must slow down.

Does anybody reading this have any insight or advice as to how I can increase my chances of gaining initial employment as to when I arrive up north. I'm planning on basing myself in Kununurra and chasing work there at first and then moving to whereever i must if I'm unsuccessful there.

Thanks in advance for any info (PM'S would be great!)

Cheers,

ditchin :ok:

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

OK :ugh:

Seriously, get on your bicycle and go. Get up there before everyone else.

Less PPRuNe and more driving across the deserts to rock up in a freshly ironed pilot uniform (pants until told otherwise) and for f**k's sake shave your face (you too as needed ladies). Ready... Steady... GO,

FRQ CB

PS Despite what I may have said in the past GA is not totally recession proof but it's certainly not as susceptible as most industries. Roads will flood; Blackfella's will need food; judges, nurses and docs will need to see the blackfellas; black and whitefellas will need their mail delivered and some tourists will still want to see waterfalls/rocks/stations/craters/ships/blackfellas/paintings etc.

PPS blackfellas and whitefellas are generally terms of endearment (or at least terms of convenience) so get over it.

PPPS Why in the hell are you still reading this??? Get in the car and get a flying job. LESS PPRuNe MORE DRIVE!!!

GO http://www.clipartof.com/images/thumbnail/360.gif (http://www.clipartof.com/details/emoticon/360.html)
ALLEZ
GEHEN SIE
ΠΗΓΑΙΝΕΤΕ
VADA
VÁ
ПОЙДИТЕ
VAYA

[Towering Q]

Thanks for the Billy Ocean intro FRQ CB....now I can't get the damn song outa my head.:ugh:

[Swift6]

From what I hear there were people in Broome before Christmas. And I know there are many more people waiting now. Its' all about making a good impression but don't over do it.
The days of arriving into town and getting a job straight away are over for the moment. I know of certain companies in Broome in the past that wanted people that had been living in town for a least 6 months before they got a look in.

I agree with FRQ CB get into your cars and drive! Its' a scary thing to do to pack your life into a car and drive across the country. Your not the first person to do it and you won't be the last. But most people that have made it in the industry started the same way.

[Mr. Hat]

Or just pack the swag!

A very handy thing to have. Along with a bullbar and 4WD. But i did it without so it can be done just with more difficulty.

Kakadu Air any info?

Unlikely to be your first job as they rarely take brand newbies. They pay the award.

GA is somewhat recession proof

In some areas yes in others (scenics) no. And one thing that isn't recession proof is progression. However i still think its not at the level that it was back in 99/00 (correct me if I'm wrong Hasselhoff).

[DanArcher]

anyone out there know Air Kakadu's mins? I vaugly remember a figure of 350tt from one of their ad's a while ago?

just wondering if I have a chance with 300tt with skydiving experience (do operators like / dislike pilots with sky dive experience?)

[KRviator]

anyone out there know Air Kakadu's mins? I vaugly remember a figure of 350tt from one of their ad's a while ago?

just wondering if I have a chance with 300tt with skydiving experience (do operators like / dislike pilots with sky dive experience?) Can't help you with whether or not you'll get a look in, but AFAP listed 400hrs as a minimum back in January...

KAKADU AIR based at JABIRU NT seeks suitably qualified pilots for a full time position. Scenic flights remain the backbone of KAKADU AIR. Other duties involve charter and air freight
Minimum requirements;
* Total time 400 hrs.
* Time on 200 series Cessna desirable.
* Willingness to go the extra yard will be compensated.

[j3pipercub]

Dan,

I have a friend who recently came back from there rather disgruntled after being given a desk job with the promise of flying. As you may guess the flying never eventuated. I have never worked for the company, but perhaps only go up there if it is a flying job, not a combination office/flying, as you may find yourself flying a desk on bugger-all

j3

[Hasselhof]

And one thing that isn't recession proof is progression. However i still think its not at the level that it was back in 99/00 (correct me if I'm wrong Hasselhoff).

Yeah mate, affirm. There are a lot of guys in GA right now that have seen quick progression onto twins / turbo props disappear. All I can say is don't stress too much, just because a mate or a mate of a mate got onto a twin with 500hrs and you're still flying a single with 1000 doesn't mean you've missed out, it just means that the other bloke was luckier than you.

It seems most guys are getting onto twins with somewhere in the order of 850 - 1500 hours these days, still well short of the 2000+ that most needed only 5 years ago. Hell, there are probably a fair number of guys on this forum that had over 3000hrs C210 before they were able to snag a twin ride, and many of those same blokes are now flying jets.

Dan, while Kak Air may offer you a job part time on the single and part time on the desk, keep in mind that with 300tt you DO have less than their stated minimums, so if nothing better is coming your way it may still be a good opportunity to build some time and prove yourself as being the right guy to be put on full time for when the peak tourist season hits. Same goes for other infamous "next in line" jobs such as the desk job at Air Frontier.

[solowflyer]

Spoke to the Kakadu CP a while ago. He said they needed 400 hrs for insurance reasons on the Airvans. Also said they had a few with 300 odd hours doing ramp duties but would try to get them up to hours required when time allowed. I guess it is just a matter of sticking in there unless you have a better option to go to. I spent 4 years loading AC before getting a seat in AG.

[Mr. Hat]

rather disgruntled after being given a desk job with the promise of flying did your mate leave for another flying job?

[DanArcher]

cheers guys,

I've decided to stay in NSW for a bit longer yet, got in with a good sky dive crowd with posibility of a turbine gig in a fletcher in the comming months :ok:

we'll see what happens next year, hopefully it's not all doom & gloom by then

[solowflyer]

Good stuff. You will love the fletcher heaps of fun.