Huge Financial Scam Hits Sydney

[ASKARI]

As if times are not hard enough; all operators are warned to be on the alert for this nice little scam that has already been effected in the Sydney Area.

An email arrives (this one from England) claiming that a family are coming out to Australia early next year and require an aircraft for 1 hour a day for 5 days. These people are well versed in the local area indicating the types of places they would like to visit and offer some 'confirmed' dates and suggested itineraries. (They are very convincing and quite savvy!) They seek a quote for your services which you duly forward.
They then make further contact seeking to pay a reasonably hefty deposit 'up front' and do so with a credit card. The card transaction actually works and goes through without any troubles at all. This is the start of your problems!
They then make contact again seeking your assistance in forwarding a payment to their booking agent in Sydney (or elsewhere) who doesn't accept credit cards - this smaller payment (in this case $8000) is forwarded by direct deposit from your account using the funds provided by the credit card transaction.
Herein lies the main problem! The credit card payment was fraudulent and probably wont be discovered until the real owner trys to use their card or receives a statement. When they do eventually discover the fraudulent transaction; it will be reversed and the original deposit will be deducted from your account. (This could occur anytime up to 12 months AFTER the initial transaction!) Naturally, the $8000 you onforwarded to the booking agent on their behalf is long gone too.
BE WARNED! This scam is presently running in the Sydney Area! Every operator/owner must be vigilant for suspicious bookings but even more so when the client is asking you to handle/forward monies onto other people!
As an aside, this one didn't quite go to plan (for the robbers) - the fraud squad were called in and the transaction was reversed before any damage was done!

[VH-XXX]

Good warning Askari. We have had this before several times. They have ranged from Bookings for an overseas student wanting to do a full-time course, to Restaurant bookings for 5 nights in a row to eat there or fishing and air charter packages. Thus far we've never been stupid enough to give money back and have never actually received money from these persons.

The most convincing one was a guy in the UK wanted his son to learn to fly who is based in Australia. He was paying us the full amount for the course but asked that we pay the local hotel named whatever and he gave us the bank account details of what was supposed to be the local hotel but was for him. We never got his money in the first place anyway.

That being said a while back we had a guy OS who wanted his son to fly to Vic to become endorsed specifically on the Cirrus and finish his PPL. Turned out to be fully legit as it was cheaper over here than elsewhere apparently so you need to be careful.

This scam works in all industries and if I'm not mistaken is called the Reverse Nigerian Scam.

[the wizard of auz]

Simple fix. take the money they owe you and not a cent more. don't take on any responsibility for paying anyone other than your staff. Buggered if I would ask a flying school to pay my hotel bill or anything other than the flying I was doing. It just shouts scam when people start asking to shift money to anywhere other than to my account for the figure they owe me.
When did flying schools take on the role of hotel broker or tourist bureau?

[Wanderin_dave]

Wow, never thought i'd be talking about my real job on pprune (normally just the hobby job). I work for one of the big 4 banks trying to prevent the fraud transactions as a result of this sort of scam. As has been covered already, if the email asks you in anyway to be a 'middle man' of sorts then just leave it well alone. Common sense to most, unfortunatley not for many others. I have a desk piled high with people i have to take money back off of because we've detected the fraud transaction going to their account.

[Chadzat]

A little bit off topic here, but I must say a big THANKS to people like you Wanderin_dave in our banks these days. We all whinge and moan about high fees and very little service in return, but these guys bust their guts to get things sorted out after an 'incident' like credit card fraud.

Nearly 12 months ago I was woken up at 8am with a phone call from my bank asking me if I had made any credit card transactions between 12am-3am that night! I hadn't, and the person then informed me that my credit card had been maxed out with fraudulent purchases- mainly for tiger airways flights ironically enough! As soon as I had confirmed it was not me that made the transactions (I still don't fully understand how they knew it wasn't me) the wheels were in motion to recover the money and issue me a new card. It was all done and dusted within 21 days of the transactions occurring.

You never think it will happen to you....then it does! I am always very careful with choosing which internet sites to purchase items from and never use the CC for anything 'dodgy', so its surprising how easily this can happen.

Anyway....storytime over!

[ReverseFlight]

On the subject of scams, here are two true stories which happened in Australia. You will be forgiven for thinking "I would never let that happen to me" but often the commercial pressures are too much to bear.

An overseas company wants to train its pilots in certain specialised aerial work. The pilots arrive in Australia and the flight school takes them on, expecting them to pay-as-they-go as per industry practice. After such training, the pilots return to their own country, yet their company never yielded a cent.

Another flight school receives a request from another overseas company to train up a group of pilots. The company invited representatives of the school to travel abroad initially at the school's own expense to meet the organisers on their home turf. Although the company turned out just to be an agent, the school felt pressured to secure the deal at any cost. The agents were repeatedly taken out to wine and dine and "gifts" were made to the agents to encourage a smooth conclusion. No prizes for guessing whether anything came of that.

[VH-XXX]

I should thank Wanderin Dave for his teams efforts in detecting my credit card fraud. I got a call in the morning to ask if I was in Dubai overnight. $3k ended up on my card. It was all done and dusted with my money back and a shiny new card within a few weeks. It was either skimmed in a Casino or in a Taxi which are the only times I let it out of my sight briefly.

Wizard of Aus, I don't think the flying school intends on being the broker for accommodation, as this is the uniqueness of the scam in that they are trying to get you to do something that you don't normally do, thus are more likely to fall into their trap.

I've now seen this in Hospitality, Aviation, Boating, Retail and Housemates. I had emails from a potential housemate that allegedly worked for Worldvision, wanting to pay me up front for the year, but she wanted some "starting" money to help her out when she arrived. She looked hot in her photos, so it was tempting :bored: I was tipped off in that she owned a 2008 Model Dodge truck she bought in Sydney, seemed a little strange given that she has been working overseas for 2 years :*

[empacher48]

These scams have been going around our scenic airline for a few years now. But the easy way around it is that when making bookings we don't charge cards until they turn up for the flight.

Scammers are pretty quickly caught out by that policy. Supposedly chip cards will make it harder for fraudulent transactions because the card should be required to be inserted into a reader for every transaction (online or in stores). But the banks are a bit slow on the uptake of this downunder.

[Wanderin_dave]

Thanks Chadzat and XXX much appreciated. Glad to hear it went well for both of you, it's a sh1tty situation when the fraudsters get hold of your card details and go to town. We do work f***ing hard (the flying work i do is stress relief, HA!!) to look after our card holders/internet banking users when it happens and also to prevent it occuring in the first place. Bank staff working hard sounds odd i know :eek:, but it's true!

Empacher, you're right about chip cards, there hasn't been a huge need for the chip cards as credit card fraud in Oz has been under control. Up until the last 12 months that is. Now that it's taking off you can expect to see chip cards rolled out very quickly to reign in the fraud spend. We've already gone 100% chip for new cards and it's working a treat.

Anyway this is an aviation site......

[Metro man]

She looked hot in her photos, so it was tempting

Photos that were doubtless lifted from any number of modeling websites.

There are no new scams, just variations on old ones. The internet has has opened up a whole new playing field for these people but fortunately information on their activities can now be spread widely and rapidly.

[jportzer]

Empacher, you're right about chip cards, there hasn't been a huge need for the chip cards as credit card fraud in Oz has been under control. Up until the last 12 months that is. Now that it's taking off you can expect to see chip cards rolled out very quickly to reign in the fraud spend. We've already gone 100% chip for new cards and it's working a treat.
It seems the issue may be more about the merchants getting the readers that accept chip cards? I've had a chip card for years now but it is almost always swiped magnetically.

My flight school doesn't have the chip reader - I've only seen a few places that do.

[FourBalls]

They then make contact again seeking your assistance in forwarding a payment to their booking agent in Sydney (or elsewhere) who doesn't accept credit cards - this smaller payment (in this case $8000) is forwarded by direct deposit from your account using the funds provided by the credit card transaction.

Please tell me you weren't so naive as to have agreed to making the said payment...surely alarm bells were ringing!:confused:

What kind of booking agent has no credit card facilities?:ugh:

Would you not expect joe average inquirer to have access to internet banking and therefore their own means of transferring funds?

If you are this gullible, the 8 grand is a valuable lesson.

[Wanderin_dave]

jportzer, you're spot on re the merchants not having chip facilities. This is changing quickly though.

Fourballs, i wish it were that easy, there are SO many gullible/desperate/naive people out there. Can guarantee someone will get caught up in this today, as someone will tomorrow and so on.......
Keeps me employed though :ok:

[kingRB]

I also work for one of the big 4 (hopefully not for much longer :ok:) - and I am also at the front line for fraud detection with credit cards, debit cards, merchant facilities, cheque fraud etc. My role predominately is for recovery of these debts once they have been identified & crystalized.

With this particular type of scam, its important to remember that they dont even need to use a stolen credit card.

The scammer can just as easily use a legitimate card in their country, and then dispute the transaction ever took place, which will ultimately end up as a merchant "chargeback" - in this example, back to the flying school or charter company that took the credit card payment.

With electronic card merchant facilities these days - they pretty much all have the option to accept payments remotely, by entering the card number which the merchant has received over the phone, through an email, or fax etc. Sounds all very convenient, for both the customer & the merchant.

However....

If you have a good read of the terms and conditions for the use of the merchant facility, you will find that the it states that the Merchant accepts all responsibility & liability for the security of the transaction, when a remote purchase is made, the card itself is not actually sighted / presented, and you do not have a signature from the card owner.

So these kinds of transactions are fraught with danger - particularly if you are accepting payments from overseas & do not know the customer. If you must charge someones credit card for a payment by using the card # alone - make sure you only do it for customers you know & trust.

All it takes is a simple disputed transaction complaint to made by the card holder through their own card issuer - and the transaction can be reversed - regardless of if the merchant still has the money or not. Bad luck if you've already sent goods to the customer overseas, or "forwarded" their money elsewhere at their request.

I've seen these merchant chargeback scams bring legitimate companys into insolvency, when they have sent hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of goods overseas - and they end up owing the Bank hundreds of thousands of dollars once the fraudster reverses the card transactions through a merchant chargeback.

[empacher48]

jportzer, you're spot on re the merchants not having chip facilities. This is changing quickly though.

Here in NZ, we were required to change all eftpos/credit card machines about 12 months ago to accept Chip and Pin. So everybody over here is required to have machines that accept them, but banks still don't issue cards here with chips.

I notice that banks in Aussie are issuing the chips, but pins aren't remembered. We have a lot of Aussie customers come and pay by credit card with chips, of course the only way to accept the card is with the PIN. Most don't even know what their PIN is!

So you guys have the cards, we have the machines... It would be nice to have them both working though.

[185skywagon]

We have just got one the above mentioned emails requesting charter services.
Alleged doctor from Scotland, asking for one to bill his credit card and then a sum on to his logistic agent.



Is there anyone we can report this clown to??

185.

[Ovation]

There is another scam where you might get a phone call from VISA, AMEX or MASTERCARD saying their fraud detection software has flagged suspicious transactions on your card. Always willing to assist catching the culprits using your card, you want to cooperate.

The caller then wants you to verify your card details and also asks for the 3 digit verification number (or 4 digit if AMEX). That's when the fraudulent transaction start!

NEVER give details to your card provider - if they are genuine they will have them anyway.

[an-124]

I got one




-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, 29 July 2008 3:26 AM
To: Enquiry
Subject: HotFrog Enquiry for xxxxx[158925]

Dear xxxx,

The following enquiry for your company was entered by world tour sdn bhd within HotFrog.com.au.

We hope this is a good sales lead for you:

From

Company/Name : world tour sdn bhd

Email Address : [email protected]

Message

our clients need to charter helicopter for 36hours. we need it in different days,

let know the details

[Two_dogs]

I have received a few of these in the recent past. I had not picked up on them being scams and have actually replied to two with costs/quotes. Thanks for the warning Askari.
Other indications are the email is sent to undisclosed recipients (more than one), and the senders are all "Doctors", a much trusted profession. They all seem to have bad grammar though!

My name is Dr. Karl Busche and lives in the united kingdom ,
I want to book for an helicopter tour for my family because,during our stays in your city, we will be going on tours around the town. These are information for our Booking, Preferred Date of Tour: 16th,17th,18th,19th and 20th March 2009 (5days) Time: 1hr in a day (12.00 pm to 1.00 pm) Passengers: 3
1.Dr. Karl Busche-------weigh 130pounds
2.MRS Anneliese Busche {My Wife} weigh 120pounds
3.BURROWS Busche son 16 yrs} weigh 95pounds
Mode of Payment: Credit Card(Visa Card). I want you to give me the total expensis for the 4days tour at 1hr per day.

Thanks,
Dr. Karl Busche

I'm Dr. David Roy from London, I'm writing to get more details and inquiry for a helicopter tour for my family, We'll be having a vacation in your region and will want to go on tour around with good beach/ land scrape views.

Please find below booking information for my family of 3,

Preferred Date of Tour: 11th, 12th and 13th March 2009 (3days)
Time: 1 hour in a day (2.00 pm to 3.00pm)
Passengers:
1.Mr. David Roy
2.Mrs. Loyce Roy (My Wife)
3.Charles Roy (My son 14 yrs)

Please be informed that my preferred payment mode is via my Credit Card (Visa Card). I'll appreciate it if you can send me a quote the above information I have provided.

I anticipate your prompt response.

Best regards,
Dr. David Roy.

Hello,

I am Dr Ford Anderson, I want to book for an Air tour for my family during our stays in your city. We will be going on tours around the town.

The information for our Booking is,

Preferred Date of Tour: 16th , 17th , 18th and 19th of March 2009 (4days) Time: 1hr in a day (12.00 pm to 1.00 pm)


Passengers: 3

1.Dr Ford Anderson -------weigh 130pounds
2.MRS Alice Anderson {My Wife} weigh 120pounds
3.Lona Anderson {Daughter 16 yrs} weigh 95pounds

Mode of Payment: Credit Card.

I want you to give me the total expense for the 4days tour at 1hr per day.

Please Send your response to [email protected]

Thank You,

Dr Ford Anderson
[email protected]

[groundbum]

the card companies must have good IT.

I bought something on the internet recently, and literally my right finger was rising from the ENTER key having completed the transaction. The phone rang, and it was Dave from Barclaycard wondering I had just purchased XXX from YY. Scary, there wasn't even milliseconds in it!

Question for the bank people, don't VISA and MASTERCARD have systems to check for dodgy merchants? What I mean is when customers/fraud systems spot a duff transaction, doesn't a system flag the previous, say, 10 mechants used legitimitely by that card? Pretty quickly across thousands of fraudulent transactions I would have thought a certain petrol station or casino or restaurent or other merchant must get red hot at showing up time and time again...

G