How Did you flyers get your first job from a fresh COM?

[digitalsoul]

It just seems impossible to get a flying job, yet you can still hear people saying, "shortage of pilots" yet there are so many unemployed pilots out there even with many hours! Will I ever get a flying job? I met some guy who has already stayed 3 years without a job after completing his CPL...very scary! How did you guys make it? Am starting to think that my investment is not worth it....am a CPL holder Multi and IF...250 hours and I completed in July 2008...

[chongololo]

There is no shortage of pilots, won't be for some time.
There might be a small shortage in places like China but that doesn't hold true for the whole industry.
Patience my friend, beg borrow and steal to get that first job.
Go and get your airplane mechanic's license if you think you are good with tools, it could lead to a flyinf job in the future.,
Good luck.

[digitalsoul]

Never thought of being a mechanic...but that also sound interesting! but isnt that another two years or something like that? How long does it take to be the mechanic?

[kingpost]

How badly do you want a job?

You have to break the homely ties and go and look for a job - a good place to start is in Maun, join all the other new Comm holders looking for work. If no luck there then go to Namibia or Zambia, alternatively you can give instruction.

Don't sit on your arse waiting, good luck.

[digitalsoul]

Thanks for the advice. My bet is to try Maun, but that's another cost-ticket, hotel etc, very disappointing if u just waste that-but am not a negative person. might just do that one of these days. With Maun, it's just the same with the way you hear people chanting "shortage of pilots" but in reality, if u go to maun, the story is different, things are tough in the real world, compaired to sitting infront an LCD and talking away on internet...I met some pals who went there, and they got a story to tell, but i prefer to see it for myself...so am not basing on their stories, but believe me, it is not an encouraging one.Instructing is not my cup of tea.

[Northbeach]

Presumably you have spent a lot of money acquiring your training. How about teaching at the very places you have already parted with your hard earned cash at? My first job was with a predominately charter operator who did some flight instructing. I trained with them to acquire my instrument instructor’s rating and then began flight instructing prior to moving into charter work. Nothing about this industry is easy, nothing.

[ducksoup79]

Go to the places where nobody wants to go, do the flying that nobody wants to do, there is plenty of that out there, you would be flying a single piston, but the experience you will get is priceless and you will have allot of fun along the way. Things like skydiving (worldwide) mustering (australia) bush flying (africa) i am not sure but i think it is diffucult to get a bush flying job in canada - alaska. Freelancing is also an option if you have the right type's on the licence. I know of people sitting at GA airports doing the odd charter and survey contract, goo money in that as well. Where there is a will there is a way! It took me 5 months to land that first job.:ok:

[Putcodrvr]

I would recommend doing some instruction. Even if its ground lectures. It will all stand you in good stead later on. I preferred to hire Junior FO's (Part121 Contract Operation) with some instruction hours, to a bush pilot with 800 plus hours. Quite a few schools have a charter operation connected as well, that could give you a foot in the door if you're prepared to go and sit in the sticks on the odd charter.

[kingpost]

digitalsoul

My advise to you is as follows: Stop listening to what others have to say about the difficulties of finding a job, get off your ring piece and get out there - the last thing aviation needs is another whiner.

By the way, a new starter, just like you, has just this morning informed me that he landed his first job in Maun, you know why.......because he was out there looking without daddy holding his hand.

You've had advice in this forum, it's up to you chap - this is how the industry works. You take the odd knock but you get up and go and get what you want.

For the last time - Good Luck, you've have to make it work for you.

[Shrike200]

Whoa Kingpost, slow down with the wild assumptions and effed up accusations. The guy is right - finding a first job is hard, and very very expensive work if you count the cost of the training. No need to insult him and his family into the bargain. And those who've changed to flying from other careers often get a shock at how utterly disorganised and chaotic first jobs are compared to other career's first jobs, servile though they may be. Have you ever started as an engineer/technician etc? It's a lot more organised in general, and you know where you stand to a much greater degree, so don't assume that how it's done in the flying world is the best thing ever, or that finding a first job is some kind of personality test, weeding out the lazy and stupid - it's not.

There are better ways to make money than starting flying - it can never, ever be considered an 'investment'.

Instruct - that's my advice. You'll probably have to pay for your rating (more money), and then pick up students slowly but surely. Good luck.

[kingpost]

Shrike200

Point taken, a little harsh however I've seen it before.

[VortexGen300]

Instruct - that's my advice. You'll probably have to pay for your rating (more money), and then pick up students slowly but surely. Good luck.

Sorry but even that is going to become more or less impossible - as the idea doing the rounds is, that it is stupidity and ridiculous to expect a 200 hr Total time guy/girl to teach others to fly?

We are hearing more and more complaints about the sorry state of aviation (often referred to as at the core of it : Traininig) and it sounds like the Powers that Be are at the point of expecting at least some experience other than the training to CPL & Instructors rating to let one get the Gr3 ticket (minimum of 400 hours TT is what I have heard) and at least 400 (possibly 500) hours of instruction to get to Gr2.

The fact is, as long as instruction is seen purely as a stepping stone to get somewhere else, the quality of the product will be well below par....

I also tend to agree with the notion that:
1) General disorganized situation in aviation.
2) The ridiculous rates especially low timers are paid just because the operators have to be competitive?
3) The stupidity of pilots having to pay for ratings and not be guaranteed jobs????

Why do the European operators and airlines have such a high premium on the psychometric tests???? Purely that will tell the employer what he is getting - and then they can bond a guy for quite some time pay a reasonable salary. No-one is then f----- around and they enjoy their life?

But the situation in the industry is really messing everything around!

VG300

[digitalsoul]

Thank very much for all your support. All your support have been helpful to some degree. This is the the time of my life that I really do feel I need some courageous advice and support.... I do wish all a blessed year ending and a perfect new one 2009. All support, tips, guidance, relevant contacts are welcomed...am from East Africa. Holding a south African CPL. Good luck everyone. Cheers:D

[Africrash]

East African with a South Africa CPL, sounds familiar!

Try Dar es Salaam, Coastal Travels, Safari Air Link, Flight Link Zan Air or Tropic Air, all have single piston for starter jobs, all have a progression, and I suspect all wil need new crew for the next season. Season in Dar starts in June but you may get to start earlier for training.

Best

Crash

[lvdriver]

digitalsoul, not knowing your situation however you need to position yourself in the aviation environment- that may mean taking a job in operations for a charter/contract company to start with- this will open the door to future opportunities. Doesn’t matter what you do- fuel the aircraft do flight plans whatever! Obviously look for a company that operates something like C208's or King Air's- that way its not inconceivable to take an opportunity if it arises.

You may want to get yourself a C208 rating- lots of guys got their start on this aircraft

[digitalsoul]

Thanks mate. You are right. I also just thought about getting that caravan rating. I think it can also help a great deal especially in east Africa here, many Caravan and I guess you stand a great chance of getting a job when you have the rating! But I always hear advice that I shouldn't pay for my own rating, but a caravan rating is not that too expensive even if it's not worth paying for the rating. What do every one say on this? Should I haul my own rating on this aircraft?

[booze]

Hey guys,

Some might say that the piston days are over. It might be, but still, Botswana and Namibia holds opportunities for those "piston pounders" out there.

What i did during my CPL training, i got myself a C206 rating, hired it and flew it around for a couple of hours. It landed me in my first job. Time on type is a definate asset!

I'd rather go for some single piston (C206, C210) to build PIC time for the first couple of hundred hours. You won't get a multi-engine piston job, unless a good 4-500hrs due to insurance requirements.

Go for a P2 turbine rating/job after some time spent as PIC. That will help you landing qiucker in the left seat afterwards you served the (usually insurance minima) hours as a co-jo.

Good luck,

Booze

[Der absolute Hammer]

Went to States.
Wrote a little fictional N time in logbook/real registrations though.
Went to RSA.
Interview with charter company-what you call a Queen!
500 twin hours? Certainly.
Flight check next week? No problem.
Few hours hard single engine circuit training.
Flight check.
Exemplary pilot with perfect drills.
Could even demonstrate Vmca at Vs without losing the control.
Thousands of hours later...
Never looked back.
No regrets.
I did it my way!

[booze]

No regrets, huh? :yuk:

I'm sure that the person 2nd in line for the job with 450 REAL twin hours would regret not writing that "little fictional" 50 hrs in his/her logbook to get the job...

All in all it is seriously not cool to do something like that and afterwards post it in places like this! :=

Cheerz,

Booze

[nibbio86]

Not to judge Hammer,
but doesn't look like a great piece of advice. I thought that the numbers on the logbook are not just only numbers but an indication of the actual experience. Is not very fair to the guys who worked hard to log those actual hours.

[Der absolute Hammer]

There was one man I know that had a very great amount of Boeing time and types in his licence as well.
Thing is though, he never did any training so he was not an exemplary and safe pilot and he ended up off a runway somewhere in a 707.
As for the rest of it all, these complaints - the passanegers were very happy, the charter queenies were happy and the flights was very safe after all that engine out praktice. We never drank beer or took up shotguns to Rhodesia for firing out of aircraft at villagers.
As for poor other pilots - all the ones still alive are now with SAA or Safair or in the Sand Pit - although some went to Maun to smoke weed and poke sticks with the bush babies. So all is well at the end of the day and a happy new year to them as does celebrate that tonight........

[digitalsoul]

Thanks again for all your support. I just want to point out that I started this thread so as to get constructive advice, help if any from you experienced flyers, that are relevant towards getting me a flying Job. I do not think fraud is the way to go, so logging phantom hours in my logbook is highly not appreciated! Thanks.
All I know is I have played by the book mostly, and I have never regretted it, for that brother who is proud of his fraudulent hours, trust me it is not worth it, and you know it, u might be successful with it, never get noticed, but am sure there is a part of you that keeps reminding you of your dark side about those hours...making you an internal self looser and unhappy in life...and trust me, u will never get away with it entirely....
Also I would wish that all replies and discussion to this thread be restricted to ways I can get to my job, or ways that are relevant to flying legally, or just making me be a better pilot...and other low timer pilots like me who getting a hard time finding a job. I know with help from you, i can know the route to take.... Thanks... Happy new year every one and wish you all a happy flying and no phantom hours...:D

[Der absolute Hammer]

Ah no - you see, I mis explain myself. As soon as the hours become real, the others are rubbed out so all the log book hours are real . No lies to CAA no lies to pilots, only lie was to charter secretary. When did you last say you had two hundred and fifty hours instead of two hundred and forty five? It is the same lie is it not? And also-you asked for a piece of information - I told you how it could be done. What do you want? Selected goodies? The aviation cookie jar is not like that.

[digitalsoul]

Oh well, lies lies...u mentioned it... not very good, although it can help sometimes when necessary and in a situation where it can not be avoided and does not affect the safety, life and emotions of those who are fooled. Thanks for clarifying, but i consider a straight forward and honest approach... there are wingers out there who really worked real hard to get where they are, and I do not think they would be happy to read that someone lied to be like them... Thanks though.

[Beechdrivr]

Having read what you wrote 'Der Absolute', the fact still remains that you committed fraud. Had something happened before you accumalated those hours there would've been big sh!t for you buddy. And to still confess to everyone what you did.......:eek:

Anyways Digital, just stick it out my friend. It took me a year and a bit to nail my first job, and i did it in a period when there wasn't many jobs going around! Just keep on showing your face, like the other guys and girls said, look at Namibia, Botswana and East africa, i'm sure you'll come right but never give up even though it feels like you're never coming right... you'll see!

Anyways all the very best to all of you for '09 and i hope it's a safe one.

Safe flying BD:ok:

[digitalsoul]

Thanks Beechdriver. More advice like yours are needed. I appreciate it. A happy new year and safe flying. Cheers

[Romeo E.T.]

went the instructor route, guaranteed hours, gauranteed salary....almost 1000hrs every year for 3 years,....thus just over 3000hrs and some twin instruction time as well....got me into Link many years ago

[mkenya]

Hammer.. Ever considered the repercusions if anyone ever decides to go back on the records?
Digital soul, maybe as someone said, you should go to places no one ever wants to go. The DRC is one place, raises all hue and cry when mentioned here, seems no one ever wants to go fly there, thus less competition.
Am sure guys on this forum are aware of more of such places

[booze]

Happy New Year gals and guys!

Some posts back an interesting situation was mentioned...to pay for a rating, or not to pay. :confused:

Well...the only thing i can say, it depends highly on the "saturation" of the so-called "jobmarket". At the moment, most of the companies want guys to pay for their ratings, because there are a lot of low timers available who are willing to pay.
I was lucky, when i got my first turbine type rating the company i was working for only bonded me for year. No money was deducted from my monthly salary whatsoever. Just a little signature at the bottom of a sheet...

At that stage there were more jobs available, than pilots... :cool: And it wasn't so long ago: 2005-2006...SA charter and contract "market".

The situation changes all the time, but my piece of advice would be for someone, who considers a turbine job after a fresh CPL, just simply calculate the type rating's price into the whole lot if you're still in training or about to start one. You can almost say, that nowadays a full CPL/ME/IR course should include a type rating as well at the end.

Or go the instruction way, but only if you are really wanna be an instructor...We are all the best at the things what we really want to do. It's not worth it otherwise... Neither for you and most definately neither for the student who is having the instructor sitting next to him/her in the pattern dreaming of flying Airbuses and Boeings rather than give 110% into what he/she is doing at the moment. :=

Or just the previously mentioned good-old piston-pounding in Nabs or Botswana :ok: There are piston charter jobs in SA as well. Take a look at Chilli Pepper Charters, CFA, or Genair.

Keep your wings level,

Booze

[Der absolute Hammer]

Ah yes.....

Bubble Pen (http://www.imprintor.com/bubblepen.html)



These are wonderfully fun for St N.
You see- you blow lots of bubbles with them!

[18left]

Digital soul if you are up to it,try the emerging carriers in Nigeria,ie virginnigeria/arik they are taking folks straight out of flight school onto heavy equipment ie 737/ng/crj900,however its highly competitive,and a rigid interview process.