Air Nav v SBS-1 Virtual Radar Systems?

[KNIEVEL77]

Could any users of the Virtual Radar systems Air Nav and SBS-1 tell me the difference between the two and which is the best one to buy?

Many thanks.

[paulc]

I have the radarbox and would not swop to SBS. Both systems are similar in what they offer but are very different to how they do it. SBS requires several 3rd party add ons to work properly whereas RB will operate out of the box with no add ons. RB has a network facility which allows users to 'see' aircraft on any other rb users system regardless of location ie there are RB users in most of europe, north and south america, south africa, asia and the middle east and it is interesting to see what those users are seeing. Both have forums which are worth looking at and having seen both 1 is much more helpful and allows a more open discussion of problems and user suggestions for possible future inclusion in any updates. For me the one thing that made the decision a 'no brainer' was the difference in size between the 2 systems - SBS is a much larger box which makes taking it + a laptop to use with it a much more difficult task. The radarbox is smaller than 2 stacked cd cases and does fit in a single bag with camera gear + laptop.

[KNIEVEL77]

Paulc,

When you say the Radarbox, do you mean the Air Nav system?

J.

[paulc]

yes - Air Nav are the company that manufacture the radarbox.

[HOODED]

Paul SBS 1E ie the latest one is considerabley smaller than the original SBS 1, take a look at the Kinetic website! I have neither so no axe to grind but am looking at the moment and someone told me you have to pay a subscription for the Radar box. Don't know how true that is but I guess that'll explain why the SBS is more expensive as there's no other costs involved.

[paulc]

Have seen the latest sbs-e it is smaller but you still need the add-ons which may make the initial set up more difficult wheras my Air Nav system was working and receiving data within 10 mins of it being taken out of the box.

Yes there is no network charge for sbs because despite it being promised for 2 years or more, Kinetic have not delivered this feature.
Radarbox is free for the first year then there is a subscription fee if you want to view network traffic only - if you do not then as far as I know there is no fee. For me the network is a nice addition but the main use for me is what I can pick up being at home or abroard.

[KNIEVEL77]

Hooded,

Where ever I look the two systems are within £10 of each other.

Paulc,

What exactly do you mean by Network Traffic?
Is the box useless after the first year if you don't subscribe?
Which gives the best image?
I see you can connect a Radio Scanner interface to the SBS-1 MK11 which is a useful addition.

I've just noticed that you need Microsoft Windows to run the software, does that mean that it's not compatible with a Mac?

Finally for now, what EXACTLY do both boxes do and is it an expensive luxury or an aviation enthusiasts 'must have'?

[paulc]

There are lots of Radarbox users worldwide and the data they pick up is sent via the internet where it can be seen by any other radarbox user. An example would be if a family member was travelling back on hols and you were going to pick them up. If there was a RB user nearby or even enroute you could get a more up to date eta etc. Even if it is not picked up by the network you can still set an alert on your own system when it is in range. Alerts can be set for an specific airline, aircraft type or even individual aircraft. Ek380's are a popular alert at the moment as is the An225.

No, by not subscribing all you loose is the ability to see network traffic, anything picked up by your own antenna remains.

The airnav website has an excellent point by point comparison between the 2 systems - it is well worth looking at this. The forum is also very helpful and will answer your questions better than I can re mac compatibility etc.

Having had it for 6 months now it has proven very useful in confirming registrations of aircraft seen but been unable to read off with bino's particularly at large aiports such as LHR where there are a) few places to spot from and b) difficult to watch both arrivals and departures. Yes it is a bit of a luxury item I guess but am very glad i have one.

[KNIEVEL77]

Paulc,

I couldn't find that comparison of the 2 systems on that website.......could you maybe post a link please?

K77.

Update: found the comparison link and yes the Airnav system looks the best one to buy but unfortunately it is NOT Apple Mac compatible........so that's the end of that then!

[paulc]

http://www.airnavsystems.com/download/anrb/AirNav%20RadarBox%20vs%20Competition.pdf

If the link does not work then go to the airnav website then the forum, look for a section called airnav discussion followed by a post called radarbox vs competition there is a link to a pdf file which is the comparison

[KNIEVEL77]

Thanks Paul but after all of that i've found out that it is not Apple Mac compatible!!!

[Snoopy]

I know that Radarbox users and AirNav the manufacturer are aggressive in promoting the Radarbox against the SBS-1 and, as an owner of both systems, the constant bitching and carrying on gets on my nerves.

As I said, I own both systems. I use the SBS-1 at home and I use the Radarbox when I am travelling because of its size and its flexibility regarding set-up. I am happy with things the way they are. I find one great advantage of the SBS-1 is the database which I find much easier to deal with than the one that comes with the Radarbox.

The above is my opinion and I am sure there will be (many) others who disagree. To each their own...

[paulc]

The software can be run on a mac using parallels (what ever that is - am not a mac user myself). Suggest posting in the computer forum to see if they can help

[sparkysam]

Just been watching my friends Navbox,What a great piece of kit, think i may buy one, cheers sparky

[daelight]

I use the Airnav Radarbox - it is very expensive but is really fun for us Aviation geeks. The little antenna has great coverage if you are high and out of the way of obstacles - this is because it is operating at 1090MHz and so more sensitive to obstructions.

I have used on PC / Mac and Ubuntu - with the Mac and Ubuntu OS you can use a *free* software called 'Virtualbox' - this allows you to install XP or Vista OS on you Mac / Ubuntu computer for the purpose of using Radarbox application.

[Groundloop]

There are lots of Radarbox users worldwide and the data they pick up is sent via the internet where it can be seen by any other radarbox user. An example would be if a family member was travelling back on hols and you were going to pick them up. If there was a RB user nearby or even enroute you could get a more up to date eta etc.

Of course, in the UK posting data like this on the internet is illegal. No doubt it has not been noticed yet but eventually someone in the Govt will jump on it.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Groundloop.. I think there's a very good argument that receiving Mode S signals using SBS is illegal on the grounds that one is receiving transmissions for which one is not authorised. However, there's no policing of the radio spectrum in the UK so there's little chance of being caught.

[Groundloop]

Director, I'm not saying anyone using as SBS/Radarbox will be "caught" as everyone who uses a normal scanner knows. In fact, I remember many years ago when "I were a lad" at Glasgow, ATC actually tested your radio for emissions and, if it passed, issued you with a certificate. If you had the certificate you could use your radio on the Spectators Balcony. Was worthwhile just for the trip out to the tower!!

I thought the law actually prohibited repeating, ie passing on, what you had heard to others.

Therefore, what may cause trouble is re-broadcasting the information on the internet. I believe a few sites that tried to re-broadcast UK ATC comms on-line were closed down a few years ago.

[Curious Pax]

When the SBS-1 first came along a number of people set up websites displaying their screens on t'internet. After a few months all the UK-based ones disappeared, as they had been contacted by the authorities 'suggesting' that they should stop, otherwise action might be taken. Still some available from other countries.

I suppose as sending info via Radarbox is a bit more subtle they may not yet have cottoned on (unless they read this thread!).

[KNIEVEL77]

The radio licensing law is a minefield, I know, I am involved with it everyday in my job but the re-broadcasting of information such as we are speaking about mustn't cause them a problem, after all Listen to Live Air Traffic Control Communications | LiveATC.net (http://www.liveatc.net) use enthusiasts to connect their scanner to their computers to re-broadcast ATC transmissions so the rest of us can listen!

[Groundloop]

Knievel, none of those feeds are from the UK! There are a few feeds from around Europe but not the UK. I believe some UK feeds were removed a few years ago (as I mentioned above). It may not be illegal in other countries, but it is in the UK, ie to re-broadcast UK originating information.

[KNIEVEL77]

Groundloop,

Interesting, I wondered why I could listen to Dublin, Amsterdam, New York etc but nothing in the UK.

K77.

P.S. It's great listening if you are bored.

P.P.S. I have just bought a device called a Blackbox which is a passive receiver allowing radio transmissions to be listened to in the cabin of a plane......it will be interesting to see if I get asked to stop using it!

[paulc]

The network facility on the radarbox is a tricky one - it is not broadcast over the internet as such rather being 'tapped into' by users (who pay for this access btw - after 1 year) for example I am only seeing what other RB users are seeing and would see myself if I were there.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

There is no question at all that if a UK enthusiast re-broadcast the UK airband he would be breaking the law. I'm not saying people don't do it - people drive at 100mph on the M1; they're still breaking the law.

It is against the WT Act in the UK to monitor any transmission for which you do not have authority and it is further illegal to publish anything you hear.

[ACARS]

KNIEVEL

I will be surprised if any airline will let you use it. Does it have an aerial? You can probably pretend it's an IPOD or something ?!?

[KNIEVEL77]

The earpiece acts as the aerial and the box itself is no bigger than a pack of cards............having said that someone did suggest that the cockpit was the last thing I should be listening to in case there is a mechanical problem to the aircraft etc!

[ACARS]

KNEIVEL

In answer to your orignal question - I own an SBS. It's very good. The out of the box software does lack the following (compared to RB)

1. No route information displayed on your scope, e.g. EGNT-EGLL
2. No network data (what other people around the world see on their scope).
3. Requires 3rd party software installs in order to match RB.

I use SBS and Planeplotter (20 euro I think). This gives me coverage across Europe,

Whether it's legal or not, it's a great hobby and I do recommend it. Once you get it, your will want a decent scanner!

BTW - The network data for RB has a 5min delay.

Your decision to buy either should be based in your location and subsequent surroundings. Even a tree outside your house can block signals. Most users end up with an amplifier and external aerial (hills or mountains will affect the performance).

PM me with your email address and I can send you some screen shots.

[steve wilson]

I use the SBS along with Air Navs ACARS decoder and suite so I dont have a bias towards one company or the other.

My SBS took about 4 weeks to get up and running the way I wanted but now it is runnings it works great. I believe that the maps on radar box are better than the SBS.

Consider this though. These applications can be CPU intensive. If you have a PC with just 256mb RAM then it could struggle. Also a detailed map can clutter the screen. My SBS map is very minimalistic.

I chose the SBS over the Airnav product because of the interface between the SBS and my ADU database. This keeps my SBS database bang up to date, and with a double click on the screen it tells me if I have seen the particular aircraft before.

The Radarbox does have the advantage of being able to merge its data with the ACARS decoder to form a single data output which is rather cool.

Watch Ebay for cheap SBS1s now, because people may be upgrading to the SBS1e.

Steve


Steve