'BOU - Potential Replacement ?

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

From another site....

"Earlier this year Viking Air, of Victoria, B.C. Canada resumed production of the de Havilland Twin Otter and now it has its sights set on an even more ambitious project. The company, which owns the type certificate to seven de Havilland models, is proposing to start building the DHC-5 Buffalo, a large twin-engine utility aircraft with ultra short takeoff and landing capability and a rear cargo door that accommodated bulky cargo. The aircraft has been the backbone of the Canadian Forces' fixed wing search and rescue fleet for decades but the military is now looking for replacements for the 40-year-old aircraft. Viking President Dave Curtis says the most affordable answer is an updated Buff. "The requirement to replace the present fleet is not based on a lack of ability for the Buffalo to do the job, but simply due to the aging of the aircraft," Curtis said.

The quote -
"The requirement to replace.....is not based on a lack of ability for the Buffalo to do the job, but simply due to the ageing of the aircraft....."

Is'nt THAT correct?? Isn't THAT why the RAAF is scrubbing the 'Bou??

What if they were 'NEW' again ? ?

Cheers

Sounds not-so-improbable to moi..... Could be GOOD!

I Wonder...... No mention of likely costs etc yet.

[panzerd18]

I could see some Buffalo's in RAAF colours! :ok:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/16/DehavillandCC-115Buffalo01.JPG

[Sunfish]

Panzer:

I could see some Buffalo's in RAAF colours

No way! That would be waaay too logical!

First we must have a Five year study.

Then a dozen senior RAAF officers must tour the world to look at each and every aircraft that is somewhere near the mission requirement.

We must then have some improbable design studies done to fit an aircraft to Australia's unique requirements.

These studies will take another three years, and involve multiple overseas trips to every continent for yet more senior officers.

The studied aircraft will include:

A Highly modified Dash 8 with unique tail ramp modifications.

Something French or Spanish, fitted with a roo bar.

Something South American that uses diesel engines.

Finally Boeing will propose it's new C15 - a twin engined, miniature C17, that is still at design stage.....very preliminary design at that,....due to fly seven years from now, .........that meets none of the Australian unique requirements.........and will cost 3 billion Yuan each.

...And that is what we will buy......and of course cut the numbers requested by the operations people in half.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Gee whiz 'Sun',

AIN'T THAT the truth !!!
Dya work forem or sumphin......?

And 'Panzer', would that be a ex Ansett WA FK28 in the background..?

Ze colour scheme looks veery familiar....

Cheers

[Brian Abraham]

Ex FSO GRIFFO - there was more
Curtis said other countries have expressed interest in a modernized Buffalo, which would include more efficient, more powerful Pratt and Whitney Canada PW150 engines, glass cockpit with enhanced vision and NVG capability. There are at least two Buffaloes in commercial service in Canada's north and Viking says there is a potential market for civilian versions of the aircraft. Viking is proposing to phase in the new Buffaloes by upgrading existing aircraft first. New aircraft would be built at Viking's facilities in Victoria and Calgary.
Sounds far too capable, against any likely competition, to be any good to us. Sunny has the likely outcome nailed, except replace service personnel with pollies and mandarins.

[panzerd18]

Ex FSO GRIFFO, my bet it is a DC-9 from the shape of the cockpit and windows.

I am really not sure what airline it is, I have had a look at Ansett and TWA but both don't match.

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/middle/9/3/3/0180339.jpg



http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/middle/8/0/2/0827208.jpg

[Zigzag]

Old colours Air Canada machine for mine............

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/middle/9/5/3/0721359.jpg

Credit to the photographer, of course...........

[Tiger 77]

This would be the greatest decision! Australia needs more interesting aircraft and the Buffalo is the best aircraft ever! I would be very happy to see more of them flying around our skies :)

Cheers,

Tiger.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Many tks for the pics guys.......

PPRuNe really works well at times.

Cheers:ok:

[Jabawocky]

Anybody notice that the two shots of the Air Canada DC-9 look like they may be the same plane in the same spot.......... but taken many years apart........

Ok I am a bit bored this morning!

J:ok:

[Wanderin_dave]

I'm an uneducated contributor, i'll put that right out there (it doesn't stop many others! ;)). But i thought one of the issues with the 'Bou was the fuselage size. It is unable to carry many items the RAAF/Army would like it to be able to. Wouldn't the Buff be restricted in the same way?

Having said that, if we can't keep the 'Bous then i'd love to see the Buff in RAAF colours.

Sunfish, spot on!!! :ok:

[Gundog01]

Spot on Wanderin. The C27 carries the same size pallets as the C130. I think the only thing 'replacing' the Caribou will be C27.

[Point0Five]

Got it in one Gundog.:ok:

Now we've just got to get Kev to pony up the cash! :hmm:

[Flyingblind]

Exactly, the Buff is the aircraft RAAF should have had 15 years ago. Even then it would still be up for replacement today...by the C27J.

Service kit is getter bigger and heavier and Service demands on aircraft performance are increasing accordingly.

[Blue Carpet]

Not a bad looking aircraft! I could see one in RAAF colours! :ok:

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/images/AIR_C-27J_lg.jpg

[Buster Hyman]

Spartan?

Didn't they get their arses kicked by the Trojans?:E

[the wizard of auz]

looks like a mini Hurc.

[PLovett]

Buster, please learn your Greek history.

It was the Trojans who got their arses kicked by the Greeks. The Spartans were a very warlike lot who had some deviant sexual practices. There, that should prompt something. :}:ok:

[Gundog01]

Wiz of Aus. It does now. But wait for Aus to get hold of it and Aus F*CK IT. Fitted for but not with comes to mind. Its sure to be a smooth acquisition.

[the wizard of auz]

Certainly a nice looking ship. :ok:

[Buster Hyman]

:ugh::ugh::rolleyes:

[the wizard of auz]

Strewth Buster, whats that all about?.

[tipsy2]

Trojans were/are the Hercules and those with the "deviant sexual practices" were the Wombats of 35 Sqdn.

My knowledge of ancient mythology is not what it probably should be:ok:

tipsy

[Buster Hyman]

Its just that subtle irony, even with smilies, is sometimes wasted around here...

[Trojan1981]

Wombats of 35 Sqdn
Ha! There was a certain loadmaster 'Wombat' with 36Sqn, eats roots and leaves:}.

[tipsy2]

certain loadmaster

Actually, I thought the title could be applied to all loadies:E:E

tipsy

[criticalmass]

Sadly, I have to agree with Sunfish's sentiments. Mind you, when I expressed similar sentiments about the forthcoming acquisition of the Super Hornet I was roundly pilloried.

Seems when defence equipment is to be purchased we have to have a huge exercise in "re-designing the wheel", plus a three-year study to decide what colour it has to be!

[Point0Five]

I'm genuinely confused by your post criticalmass. The Super Hornet buy is anything but the situation described by Sunfish. Surely you're not suggesting that that it's the result of: a huge exercise in "re-designing the wheel", plus a three-year study to decide what colour it has to be!
:rolleyes:

[junior.VH-LFA]

It would be a practical descion, but time will tell I suppose.



Wanderin_dave,

The Bou is used as an army co-operation aircraft, sure it can't carry everything, but it does the job adquatley. The main issue with the Bou is fatigue on the airframes aswell as corrosion.

[Gundog01]

The Bou is used as an army co-operation aircraft, sure it can't carry everything, but it does the job adquatley. The main issue with the Bou is fatigue on the airframes aswell as corrosion.

Junior here's a little bit of advice. Unless you know what you are talking about, keep your mouth closed, it only makes you look foolish.

The bou is tactical transport not Army co-operation (which website did you get that term from), and no it dosent really do the job adequately. It breaks down more often than not, can only carry a dozen troops 1000nm, and runs on AVGAS. No military aircraft should have the words "CONTACT" in the checklist....serioulsy chaps.

Fatigue and corrosion are not even a factor when it comes to problems with the Bou. Try engines and avionics (what little there is) and you might be getting closer. Dont get me wrong its great to fly, but >200 man hours per hour of flight..ridiculous.

The new CAF has finally had the balls to say "We dont need ths capability right now, so lets take the chance to up skill the maintainers and aircrew before something new and shiny comes along". Good on him too.

[here skip]

Dont get me wrong its great to fly, but >200 man hours per hour of flight..ridiculous.

Gundog. I've heard on the grapevine that it costs around $20K on hour to run a 'BOU.:eek::eek: @ around 140KIAS!!!

Can yourself or anyone confirm??

[Trojan1981]

around 140KIAS Cough cough! 110KIAS cough!:}

If you speak to some army units they will tell you they want the capability, but it is not fully available for a number of reasons (many of them good reasons). The replacement will not fully rectify this.

[Gundog01]

QUOTE]Cough cough! 110KIAS cough![/quote]

Trojan i dont know if you've flown the old warbird or not but......a cracking 140TAS (120KIAS). 208 Vne....only seen it twice (test flights).

Skip, your guess is as good as mine. Wouldn't surprise me though.

[Roller Merlin]

Initial replacement will be a selection of nice little KingAirs. Army will donate theirs to the cause and get out of fixed wing flying ops. Then helos will haul most of the light tactical trash and SLF until a real replacement (if ever) is selected.

[Trojan1981]

Trojan i dont know if you've flown the old warbird or not but......a cracking 140TAS (120KIAS). 208 Vne....only seen it twice (test flights).

I would love to see that 208Kts! That would be spectacular (from the ground).
Not really flown one, no...
I flew in them quite a bit as an AD and jumped out of them about a dozen times.
I absolutely love them. Dropping LAPES down fire breaks; landing on and taking off from VERY SHORT dirt and gravel strips in OZ and overseas; jumping from them for TALC teams and throwing stuff out the back before settling in for a ramp ride. Much prefer a 'Bou to a Herc.

I would have loved to have flown one...
We did bag the pilots out sometimes for being slower than a 182 though;)

[junior.VH-LFA]

Gundog,

Fair call.

[Gundog01]

Anyone who loves the Bou should get to Avalon and see the last airshow appearance (apart from Townsville mid year) of the mighty beast. Sure to be a cracker.:ok:

[Wanderin_dave]

I've said it before, but i'll say it again. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE tell me the RAAF have plans to hand one over to HARS or some other willing and capable organisation to maintain one in airworthy condition. Would be a travesty if not the case. Such a significant aircraft in our nation's short history.

I'll be the first to put my hand up to fly it!! I'm happiest @ around 100kts! Any faster and i'm left behind :ok: